Paul Racer Brakes

[jpw]

One for Paul fans.

http://www.paulcomp.com/racer.html

http://www.paulcomp.com/racerm.html

Imagine a road frame with a brake bridge set in positioned for a short reach caliper brake (a Dura Ace, a Record, et.c.) for 700c rims. Normally that would limit the tire size to probably no more than a measured 27mm at best.

Now take the caliper off and insert a center mount Paul Racer. Does this brake create more space for a taller tire?

Thanks, Jason.

[pavel]

you're limited by the fork, not the brake.

[choke]

It may give you a bit of space but the location of the brake bridge is the limiting factor. For example, I have two road bikes which run the same brakes; on one a Parigi-Roubiax clears with no problem but on the other it rubs the bottom of the brake hard enough that it won't spin at all. FWIW, this is the back brake - it'll clear the front brake on both.

[jpw]

you're limited by the fork, not the brake.

do you mean the bridge? I'm asking about the rear wheel.

[vqdriver]

depends on the frame and fork.
on an enve fork with sram red brakes, i would have hit the brakes before the fork. with campy brakes, the fork first, but just by a hair.
with both brakes, i would have hit the frame's brake bridge first. depends on where the builder puts the bridge.

[jpw]

It may give you a bit of space but the location of the brake bridge is the limiting factor. For example, I have two road bikes which run the same brakes; on one a Parigi-Roubiax clears with no problem but on the other it rubs the bottom of the brake hard enough that it won't spin at all. FWIW, this is the back brake - it'll clear the front brake on both.

I suppose I could ask that the bridge be set so that the short reach caliper's shoes are already at their lowest possible point in the slots (meaning that the bridge is set to its highest possible position for 700 rims). I wonder if that would allow a 30mm tire to squeeze under the Racer?

Perhaps I should ask Paul. Someone else must have asked this question before?

[jpw]

depends on the frame and fork.
on an enve fork with sram red brakes, i would have hit the brakes before the fork. with campy brakes, the fork first, but just by a hair.
with both brakes, i would have hit the frame's brake bridge first. depends on where the builder puts the bridge.

Ah, so Campag brakes sit a little higher than SRAM. Thanks, that helps.

I wonder about Dura Ace?

[choke]

I suppose I could ask that the bridge be set so that the short reach caliper's shoes are already at their lowest possible point in the slots (meaning that the bridge is set to its highest possible position for 700 rims). I wonder if that would allow a 30mm tire to squeeze under the Racer?

Perhaps I should ask Paul. Someone else must have asked this question before?That should help. Or, if you're having the frame made, go to direct mount Racers and then the brake bridge problem goes away. I talked to Paul at NAHBS about this and he said that the Racer M would clear a 35 if it's direct mounted.....the Racer even larger.

[vqdriver]

didn't know this was for a custom frame. tell the framebuilder what you have in mind. they'll have better input.

having said that, i had my taylor built up this way. so that a short reach brake will have the pads lower in the adjustment range but a mid reach caliper would have them somewhere in the middle. this can be done.
no provision for this can be done, however, on a carbon fork. so if you're getting a carbon fork with the frame you'll have to choose wisely, or have a fork made to match the frame.

[jpw]

That should help. Or, if you're having the frame made, go to direct mount Racers and then the brake bridge problem goes away. I talked to Paul at NAHBS about this and he said that the Racer M would clear a 35 if it's direct mounted.....the Racer even larger.

That's interesting. I must send him an email.

I'm trying not to go for the direct mount solution. Ideally I would want the frame to be for short reach calipers with the option to pop in a Racer for fatter tires. I'll ask Paul.

Many thanks.

[Anarchist]

If it is a custom frame get the post mounted version and have the frame builder install the mounting posts.

The post mounted version is a better version of the brake in any event.

[zennmotion]

didn't know this was for a custom frame. tell the framebuilder what you have in mind. they'll have better input.

having said that, i had my taylor built up this way. so that a short reach brake will have the pads lower in the adjustment range but a mid reach caliper would have them somewhere in the middle. this can be done.
no provision for this can be done, however, on a carbon fork. so if you're getting a carbon fork with the frame you'll have to choose wisely, or have a fork made to match the frame.

What he said- my older Hampsten (built for short reach brakes, not the Strada Bianca) has clearance for 28mm (actual measured) tires with Shimano 6600 short reach calipers. Steel fork, and front and rear mount the brake shoes at the bottom of the slots. I have no idea whether newer Shimano calipers differ in this dimension, but the older Ultegras-- no problem with 28s.

[keevon]

I suppose I could ask that the bridge be set so that the short reach caliper's shoes are already at their lowest possible point in the slots (meaning that the bridge is set to its highest possible position for 700 rims). I wonder if that would allow a 30mm tire to squeeze under the Racer?

Perhaps I should ask Paul. Someone else must have asked this question before?

A tire that measures a true 30mm (such as a Pasela) should fit under a "short reach" caliper with the pads bottomed out. Compared to a dual-pivot caliper, you'll get a millimeter or two more clearance out of a single-pivot or centerpull brake.

But if you're having the frame custom built, why not have it designed for more reach in the first place? I can't see why you would have it designed for a typical 49mm max. reach dual-pivot, then put on a 47mm-57mm Racer Medium.

[zennmotion]

If it is a custom frame get the post mounted version and have the frame builder install the mounting posts.

The post mounted version is a better version of the brake in any event.

Which is great except you're committed to Paul brakes forever in this case. I'd take a long view and opt for flexible options in the future. You know, just in case your grandson doesn't like or can't find the Paul brakes when restoring your bike 40 years from now.

[donevwil]

Here's (post #506) (http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/spectrum-4250-26.html) a frameset built by Spectrum (Tom Kellogg) that clears 32s with Dura-Ace 9000 calipers. If you choose calipers and builder carefully it evidently can be done.

[GRAVELBIKE]

Why not use the longer-reach Shimano r650 calipers?

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8487/8248758270_70fefc557d_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/justridingalong/8248758270/)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8051/8084158406_1f2995c28f_n.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/justridingalong/8084158406/)

[jpw]

Which is great except you're committed to Paul brakes forever in this case. I'd take a long view and opt for flexible options in the future. You know, just in case your grandson doesn't like or can't find the Paul brakes when restoring your bike 40 years from now.

precisely.

[vqdriver]

why not just use the paul's with the skinnier tires?

[Rueda Tropical]

I had my Firefly frame and Terraferma fork built to provide maximum clearance with short reach brakes. Pads are near bottom of slot on my Mavic SSC brakes and there is tons of clearance for my Ultremo 28's.

It's the frame and fork that will be the limiting factor.

[Cat3roadracer]

I have a Bedford rando frame with Racer brakes, I could fit a motorcycle tire in there.

[donevwil]

I had my Firefly frame and Terraferma fork built to provide maximum clearance with short reach brakes. Pads are near bottom of slot on my Mavic SSC brakes and there is tons of clearance for my Ultremo 28's.

It's the frame and fork that will be the limiting factor.

Interesting, after reading this post I placed a Mavic SSC over my Grand Bois Cypres 32mm on an A23 rim. Fit easily with room to spare. If I only had a frame/fork to suit.