Speaking of repairing Brooks, do they need it more frequently?

[dekindy]

Is it true that Brooks rails are breaking with higher frequency and the leather is thinner and starts sagging after a couple of years and that there warranty support is not as good as Berthoud? Something to do with new ownership a few years ago?

Have seen some comments, one from an online dealer, that Brooks definition of failure is much stricter than Berthoud.

Thinking about a Team Pro, could go to a local LBS and check it out, but wondering if I should try a Berthoud Aspin.

The Aspin is flatter than the Team Pro and flat synthetic saddles are definitely not for me. Does that matter on a leather saddle since it is going to adjust to me anyway?

[ctcyclistbob]

I don't know anything about Berthoud though I've been riding Brooks for a while, but don't have enough history to know if quality has changed in recent years. I don't think so though, as I have some from after the switch and they're really nice.

As far as leather being thinner, I believe that since each piece is different there will be variations, and with bad luck the saddle any of us get may be thinner. It's not a problem across the board.

I've heard some rail materials are more brittle than others (chrome for example).

Last year, well past the warranty period, I had a piece break on the underside (not a rail, but a tension shackle), bought the new piece for a few bucks and installed it. The point is they're repairable, another saddle would have been toast.

Good luck!

[bikinchris]

I have been riding Brooks for along time and don't see any lowering in quality.

[dave thompson]

Repairing Brooks more frequently than what? Brooks have a well-earned reputation for longevity, many have been used for decades with nothing but occasional use of Proofide. Assuming there was a deline in quality, which I've seen no evidence of anywhere, they may last only, say, 10 years which is double or even triple of compatibly priced 'regular' saddles, which are not repairable. Brooks are.

Berthouds are still a new kid with not much history.

[jr59]

Some of the chrome rails are not as strong as the steel ones, and I have had a rail break on me. brooks replaced it N/c!

They also told me this happens from time to time on their chrome railed saddles!

So yes it does happen

[dekindy]

Repairing Brooks more frequently than what? Brooks have a well-earned reputation for longevity, many have been used for decades with nothing but occasional use of Proofide. Assuming there was a deline in quality, which I've seen no evidence of anywhere, they may last only, say, 10 years which is double or even triple of compatibly priced 'regular' saddles, which are not repairable. Brooks are.

Berthouds are still a new kid with not much history.

Agree. However have seen reports of saddles purchased since the ownership change, rails breaking with high frequency and leather sagging with a couple of years and Brooks not warranting them. Supposed to be a lot of evidence on the internet, one forum in particular, but a quick search did not yield the forum so was going to continue the search and get some opinions here.

One reviewer said that Brooks would not warranty a sagging saddle with the 2-yr period because it got wet and Amazon was going to give him his money back. A dealer indicated that Berthoud was much better than Brooks about warranting saddles and expressed specific displeasure with some of Brooks policies; cannot find that because I have looked at a lot of sources but will post it here if I find it again.

[dave thompson]

Agree. However have seen reports of saddles purchased since the ownership change, rails breaking with high frequency and leather sagging with a couple of years and Brooks not warranting them. Supposed to be a lot of evidence on the internet, one forum in particular, but a quick search did not yield the forum so was going to continue the search and get some opinions here.

One reviewer said that Brooks would not warranty a sagging saddle with the 2-yr period because it got wet and Amazon was going to give him his money back. A dealer indicated that Berthoud was much better than Brooks about warranting saddles and expressed specific displeasure with some of Brooks policies; cannot find that because I have looked at a lot of sources but will post it here if I find it again.
Unless those reports are from users who had those actual experiences, they are merely heresy and anecdotal. Brooks has made saddles over 100 years and while I'm sure there have been failures, the successes are a huge majority. There are Brooks that have been in service for decades. Berthoud are the new and expensive kid on the block. If there is something awry with a Brooks it's one of the very few saddles that can be repaired

I'm a Brooks user, 12 years now, no breakage, sagging or issues on any of my Brooks.

[gomango]

I put Brooks Swifts on every one of my bicycles that are used for all day rides.

I have not had a single issue in the thirty plus years I have used their products.

Some folks do though, as reported here.

I have just under 7,000 miles on this Swift at this point, as I grab this Hollands as a first choice for daily rides.

I also have a Select Swift model sitting in a box here and I did notice how thick the hide was compared to the regular Swift. It will be interesting to see if it makes any discernible difference when I switch them out in another five years or so.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3381/5842157843_fe3db22371_b.jpg

[jr59]

Unless those reports are from users who had those actual experiences, they are merely heresy and anecdotal. Brooks has made saddles over 100 years and while I'm sure there have been failures, the successes are a huge majority. There are Brooks that have been in service for decades. Berthoud are the new and expensive kid on the block. If there is something awry with a Brooks it's one of the very few saddles that can be repaired

I'm a Brooks user, 12 years now, no breakage, sagging or issues on any of my Brooks.

Dave, I enjoy your post greatly, but this is NOT hearsay!!!
In fact one of the brooks reps told me it happens more than a few times with their chrome railed saddles.

Here is a pic of the broken rail on mine. As I said, it's not hearsay! It does happen.

[gomango]

Dave, I enjoy your post greatly, but this is NOT hearsay!!!
In fact one of the brooks reps told me it happens more than a few times with their chrome railed saddles.

Here is a pic of the broken rail on mine. As I said, it's not hearsay! It does happen.

Wowsers!

A fellow I ride with is a fairly large, powerful rider.

He snapped a chrome rail on a Swallow in exactly the same spot a few years ago.

I don't recall if it was a newer model though.....

[bumknees]

I've had no problems with Brooks Swallows (with the Ti rails) over the last 6 years. However, I'm on the lighter side, so that may be one reason why... Also, I've always bring the cover with me when it looks like there's even a possibility of rain.

[ctcyclistbob]

Beautiful Hollands !

... I grab this Hollands as a first choice for daily rides.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3381/5842157843_fe3db22371_b.jpg

[ctcyclistbob]

... one of the brooks reps told me it happens more than a few times with their chrome railed saddles.


That's a bummer it happened to yours. You're in New Orleans, can Wallingford Bike fix it?

This seems to happen with chrome rails. I don't understand the metallurgy but the chroming process makes the rails brittle which can lead to breakage. If anyone can explain why please do.

Stay away from the chrome rails.

[dekindy]

That's a bummer it happened to yours. You're in New Orleans, can Wallingford Bike fix it?

This seems to happen with chrome rails. I don't understand the metallurgy but the chroming process makes the rails brittle which can lead to breakage. If anyone can explain why please do.

Stay away from the chrome rails.

So copper rails for the same price or are titanium rails the only alternative? Wallbike only shows chrome rails.

[jlwdm]

Dave, I enjoy your post greatly, but this is NOT hearsay!!!
In fact one of the brooks reps told me it happens more than a few times with their chrome railed saddles.

Here is a pic of the broken rail on mine. As I said, it's not hearsay! It does happen.

Dave did not say your claim was not true. He did say this thread is full of hearsay. Which it is.

Jeff

[ctcyclistbob]

So copper rails for the same price or are titanium rails the only alternative? Wallbike only shows chrome rails.

Black powder coated rails are used also.

http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/spareparts/frames__+brackets__+etc_/

[Ahneida Ride]

I believe the chroming process weakens the steel.

For Brooks repair, please visit http://www.bilenky.com/brooks_.html

[gomango]

Beautiful Hollands !

Heh thanks, it's a fun ride!

[dekindy]

Black powder coated rails are used also.

http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/spareparts/frames__+brackets__+etc_/

Does not appear to be available in road models. Do they manufacture special orders?

Are copper rails stronger than chrome? Copper appears to be more expensive, at least on Sheldon Brown's website.

[dave thompson]

Does not appear to be available in road models. Do they manufacture special orders?

Are copper rails stronger than chrome? Copper appears to be more expensive, at least on Sheldon Brown's website.
No. All things equal a copper plated rail will not be stronger or weaker than the same rail that has been chrome plated.

While Sheldon Brown's website is good, Wallingford bikes with respect to Brooks saddles is better, as is the Brooks website.

[R2D2]

Agree. However have seen reports of saddles purchased since the ownership change, rails breaking with high frequency and leather sagging with a couple of years and Brooks not warranting them. Supposed to be a lot of evidence on the internet, one forum in particular, but a quick search did not yield the forum so was going to continue the search and get some opinions here.

One reviewer said that Brooks would not warranty a sagging saddle with the 2-yr period because it got wet and Amazon was going to give him his money back. A dealer indicated that Berthoud was much better than Brooks about warranting saddles and expressed specific displeasure with some of Brooks policies; cannot find that because I have looked at a lot of sources but will post it here if I find it again.


There are all sorts of stories out there.

I've heard Bethouds aren't really waterproof as advertised.
I wonder of those that have sagging Brooks, were both the under side and top side treated once with Proofhide and then broken in.
Tension screw used in moderation.

I've had no problems with Swallows (one of wihich is the intially introduced limitted edition) or Swifts. But then I always bought ti railed vesions. They were a lot cheaper once.

On the saddle with broken rails was it cut and laced by Brooks?

So if your Brooks sucks for you:
1. trash it.
2. repair it.

And it is not just Brooks. I've worn out many saddles. Fizik has said tough luck once.
I bought a new one.
Selle Anatomica rails snap too.

[Jaq]

fwiw, I had a Brooks Pro originally (1996) on my bike. Rode it for 17 years without a problem, took good care of it, etc.

Replaced it with a 2012 (or so) Brooks Swift and the Swift started to sag after about 700 miles. Tightened it up and it seems to be holding up, but I never had to tighten the Pro.

That said, it's quite comfy, though I don't have anything to compare it to, except for the old Pro.

[jmoore]

Leather does vary in thickness with each hide. I'm sure that Brooks does a thorough inspection of each hide when it arrives to make sure they are in spec. I doubt they would approve of a hide that was too thin or outside spec somehow. Now they could have changed the spec to make it thinner at some point but I don't have any knowledge about that.

[dekindy]

http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/zadels/index_en.html#gilles_berthoud_a

Found a website with a lot of information on leather saddles and answered questions about leather consistency and chrome breakage.

If I am understanding correctly, some sagging is due to inconsistency in leather but mostly due to lack of proper maintenance. Also, much chrome breakage can be attributed to sagging. Overall satisfied that not much has changed at Brooks but is disturbing when I read of a Brooks owner that has 5 saddles, 2 lasting forever and 3 sagging within a year or two. Trying to figure what is going on with that one because he seemed to be a Brooks fan but may be switching to Gilles Berthoud due to the short life span of the majority of the Brooks saddles he has purchased.