knickers?

[MattTuck]

I've always either gone with full length tights of shorts, or shorts with leg warmers for cool weather riding.

Been thinking about picking up a pair of knickers, that go past the knee. I also understand that different weights of Lycra exist, and I remember reading something about a "Roubaix" spandex that was more insulating than typical stuff.

Anyone have a recommendation or advice for such garments?

[charliedid]

These: http://shop.ibex.com/Apparel/Mens-Ride/M-El-Fito-3-4_2

[zott28]

They're my go to here in San Francisco, where the temperature goes up at least 10* when you cross the Golden Gate. Knickers keep me warm enough in the City and I do not over heat in Marin.
I'm looking for a better brand myself that fit better in the junk region.

[Bob Ross]

I've got a pair of Louis Garneau knickers that are very comfortable, fit great, look great, haven't the foggiest idea what model they are. They are kinda fleecey on the inside, definitely warm (almost too warm*) but I don't know if that qualifies as "Roubaix" fabric.


* The whole idea of warm knickers kinda perplexes me. If I wanted warmth, why would I also want my lower calves exposed? Conversely, if it's warm enough outside that I can get away with exposed claves, why would I want the rest of the knicker made from some warm wintery insulated material?

[dustyrider]

I thought about getting a pair of knickers, but in the end if it's "cold/hot" enough to justify 3/4 pants I just roll up my pant legs. Think 1980's pinch, fold, and roll.

If you're looking for wool you can find a few variations of knickers at an Army/Navy surplus store, way way cheaper.
Like these: LINKY. (http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-italian-military-surplus-wool-knickers-olive-drab.aspx?a=884908)
I believe the Italians used them as horse riding pants, there are a few other nations I just can't recall right now.

[FlashUNC]

I wear a set of bib knickers down to about 40-45 degrees or so, depending on the wind and sun.

Love them personally. Nowhere the hassle of knee warmers or full tights, and more flexible temperature wise. If the ride's going to start at 45 degrees and end near 65, then they work fantastically.

Definitely recommend a Roubaix fabric of some sort if you're going for knickers. Personally, I love the Rapha bib knickers. But I hear from riding buddies that Assos' are pretty fantastic as well.

I've also had good luck with Castelli's Claudio bib shorts with embro for similar temperatures.

[pdxharth]

I'll second the Ibex recommendation. However, this past year I bought a pair of the Ibex bib-knickers and they are even nicer. I had no idea how much my knickers were drooping before and now I really notice it when I wear my old pair. Bib knickers only from now on (except for my commute).

Cheers,
Harth

[bigreen505]

I always thought nickers were kind of silly -- it is either warm enough for shorts or it isn't. I found some Louis Garneau bib nickers on sale and decided to give them a try. Instant love. They fill the 50f-70f temperature range nicely and are great for mountain rides when it is warmish, but you know are going to get blasted by cold wind or be in shade on the descent.

[lhuerta]

I wear a set of bib knickers down to about 40-45 degrees or so, depending on the wind and sun.

Love them personally. Nowhere the hassle of knee warmers or full tights, and more flexible temperature wise. If the ride's going to start at 45 degrees and end near 65, then they work fantastically.

Definitely recommend a Roubaix fabric of some sort if you're going for knickers.

+1

The trick with knickers is to make sure they are long enough. Some brands only drop to just below the knee (useless, as they will always be riding up) where as the proper fit should drop to slightly below the calf muscle. I have found Assos and Rapha to be quite short. While Capo, Sugoi, Hincapie and Voler provide the longer and better fit.
Lou

[jh_on_the_cape]

If you use knee warmers ever, get knickers.

I bought a pair of bib knickers and wear them much more than I expected. They are the slightly fleecy insulated Cannondale with roubaix material.

My knee warmers were always sliding down. I suffer from cold knees.

Just try some.

[evo111@comcast.net]

I use Pearl Izumi in a light weight lycra. Good for low temps around 40-45 depending on the wind. Good fit, good quality and the chamois is not too thick. They do make heavier weight ones but below 40-45 I'll switch to full length tights.

[shovelhd]

Roubaix material is typically fleece lined with a water repellent lycra outside.

I guess I'm an outlier for knee warmers. I prefer them over bib knickers. If I put them on underneath my bib shorts they don't budge.

[FlashUNC]

I guess I'm an outlier for knee warmers. I prefer them over bib knickers. If I put them on underneath my bib shorts they don't budge.

Who wears knee warmers over their shorts?

[Louis]

Nowhere the hassle of knee warmers or full tights, and more flexible temperature wise.

I must, in the most mild terms, disagree.

I have knickers, use knickers, and like knickers, so I'm by no means a hater, but no way are knee warmers a "hassle." You put them on, you take them off. If that's a hassle, well...

Plus, how can something that gives you the option, on or off, be less flexible temperature-wise than knickers, which can only be on?

[FlashUNC]

I must, in the most mild terms, disagree.

I have knickers, use knickers, and like knickers, so I'm by no means a hater, but no way are knee warmers a "hassle." You put them on, you take them off. If that's a hassle, well...

Plus, how can something that gives you the option, on or off, be less flexible temperature-wise than knickers, which can only be on?

Hassle might be a bit of hyperbole.

But I can't think of more than one or two exceptional circumstances where I've had to take off knee warmers during a ride. They're nice for warmer days where a knee covering is still needed and you can ride with normal shorts, but I've come to the conclusion that if I need knee warmers, 99% of the time wearing knickers is just simpler.

[carpediemracing]

I use bib knickers, the Roubaix type fabric, in about 35-55 deg F for racing and 45-65 deg F for training. If it's cold and raining I'll wear knickers regardless of the temps (so down to about 32 deg F).

My calves almost never feel cold. It's the knees and ankles that get chilly, plus the err hip area. And quads.

I always wear booties with knickers. In fact I'll wear booties up to about 60 deg in races, even though by then I'm wearing shorts. The booties protect my Achilles. I see a lot of people drop the Achilles protection. I don't know if it's a causal relationship but I've never had Achilles tendonitis, and I've always been paranoid about protecting my heel/Achilles from the cold.

Knickers are great in the rain. Much less weight when wet. I usually slip plastic under the thigh and knee to make them "windproof" if it's pouring and cold.

I have a set of knee warmers. I've used them maybe twice in 8 or 10 years, but I got them just in case. The only thing I use about as infrequently are my arm warmers, maybe 4 or 5 times in the same length of time. I tend to veer to warmth for my torso so I have thick LS jerseys. The thin arm warmers don't fill much of a need. I'd rather use a SS jersey and a wind vest.

I also always wear long finger gloves. I'll wear cold weather gloves into the 50-60 deg range. This helps negate the need for arm warmers.

[cfox]

The one pair of knickers I tried rode up and bunched/rubbed behind my knee. Pain in the ass even though it was my knees that hurt.

[john903]

Ibex wool knickers are what I use. In fact I just got back from a 2 hr rain ride at 45deg. I was just fine, not cold just wet which is what I love about wool you may get wet but never really cold.
Have a great day.

[pdmtong]

there are different lengths and weight of knickers.

The main difference versus knee warmers is the pelvis area is also made of the thermo-roubaix, so overall your lower body is warmer. very very nice.

I wear knickers exclusively in bay area 40-60d "winter", unless it is raining or a mess in which case I wear full tights just for coverage (not warmth). It doesnt get sub-40 often, and if it does we canjust wait an hour or so and then it warms up.

for 40-50d I use rapha 3/4 or capo LE (this has a wind panel in front)

for 50-60d I use rapha CX 3/4 or mavic. these two are of a lighter weight.

in the spring/summer/fall I go to knee/arm warmers, so I have layering flexibility for rides that start in 45d and end in 75d. tried all kinds, but settled on rapha knee warmers - they do not slide down. ever. who knew?

[MattTuck]

Thanks for the advice. Ibex is a local company, and I own some of their non cycling stuff already. Is the chamois on those wool also??? It kinda looks like it from the picture.

I'm more accepting of wool for jerseys... I'm (to put it lightly) skeptical of wool for cycling bottoms... but lots of people like it, so maybe I'll give it a try.

[carpediemracing]

One more thought. I don't own any thermal bib shorts (Roubaix fabric in a shorts format). If I did then I'd consider knee warmers.

The problem with knee warmers is that if I need knee warmers then I also need more insulation up high. Regular shorts material doesn't cut it up high at, say, 35-40 deg. I want Roubaix fabric to my waist in those temps.

A teammate tried thermal bib shorts, said they worked well. I may have to get a few pairs, along with knee warmers.

Right now I have so many knickers that I still have a few sealed in plastic. Thermal bib shorts seems low in the priority list.

[pdxharth]

No, the chamois isn't wool, it's just grey material. In fact, the chamois was chafing me so I took it out and wear shorts underneath. The bibs of the knickers help hold up the shorts, too.

If you are local to Ibex (or vice versa) then I'm sure you know about their sales, which apparently have amazing deals. That'd be a great time to get a pair of knicks at a nice price.

Thanks for the advice. Ibex is a local company, and I own some of their non cycling stuff already. Is the chamois on those wool also??? It kinda looks like it from the picture.

I'm more accepting of wool for jerseys... I'm (to put it lightly) skeptical of wool for cycling bottoms... but lots of people like it, so maybe I'll give it a try.

[pdmtong]

Thermal bib shorts seems low in the priority list.

there is a 3-5 week period in the late fall around here where thermo bib shorts are a nice to have. pretty narrow time window.

as for my thermo knickers, got them all on sale. capo and mavic off bonktown/chainlove $80. Rapha 3/4 on sale. Rapha CX 3/4 on sale. all of these have excellent chamois and were very "affordable"

[xjoex]

I don't like lycra knickers that much. But I do ride in looser manpri's most of the year. The two I like the most are the Outdoor Research Ferossi and Club Ride Half Rack Knickers.

http://robonza.blogspot.com/2012/11/review-club-ride-half-rack-knickers.html
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EPyUrPDuak0/UJyYWRZzi3I/AAAAAAAAIBo/k1hQ7a_21Ao/s512/PB030075.jpg

http://robonza.blogspot.com/2011/04/review-outdoor-research-ferrosi-34.html
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BZDLccXPziI/TbDaAGp2oWI/AAAAAAAADV8/9QjgzSF3uCw/s512/IMG_4713.jpg

I am a fan of clam diggers, floods, high waters, manpris or knickers.

-Joe

[Bostic]

Big fan of the Sugoi RS Bib Knickers. My commute is 17 miles each way and for temps from 59 down to mid 30's (about as cold as it gets in Silicon Valley) I wear them. I also have a pair of the Zero Bib Knickers but they don't cover as much down the calves.

The past few years I've done the Mt. Tam double century I have worn the bib knickers instead of bibs and knee warmers since I knew the weather would never warm up enough. 12 hours of knee warmers gets to my thighs based on other doubles I've done wearing them throughout.

[BumbleBeeDave]

These: http://shop.ibex.com/Apparel/Mens-Ride/M-El-Fito-3-4_2

. . . this past weekend at the LBS on winter closeout for $48! Can't wait to try them out.

BBD

[charliedid]

. . . this past weekend at the LBS on winter closeout for $48! Can't wait to try them out.

BBD

$48 is crazy cheap! Are they going out of business? ;-)

[rice rocket]

I have a pair of the Ibex bib knickers, they pretty thick and don't stretch as well as I'd like. The chamois is a little stiff and diaper-ish. I guess once you're on the bike, you don't notice as much though.

I have Castelli Nanoflex shorts and a full set of their warmers, and they're my go-to for most any riding under 60 degrees with various permutations of the warmers. Ibexes are now almost exclusively for MTB use.

[CNY rider]

Big fan of the Sugoi RS Bib Knickers. .

Agree.
I got my first pair about 5 years ago.
They get a lot of use in upstate NY.
One of those items you get, start using, and can't really remember how you got along without them.

[gavingould]

seems like every kit company has a fabric they're calling Roubaix, but they vary quite a bit in weight, warmth, and wind resistance...
i've had some Verge team kit in the past that i ordered a long sleeve "Roubaix" jersey, which was a fleece-backed, fairly windproof, but not very stretchy synthetic. Voler had a pretty good CX skinsuit, don't recall if they called it Roubaix material - fleecy and warm, stretchy like a regular skinsuit, but not much for windproof.
currently i've got Rapha 3/4 bibs ("Thermoroubaix") and their 1st generation CX 3/4s which are lighter weight fabric, but still lightly fleece-backed... i'd call the CX knicks "1/2 roubaix"

generally i don't go with 3/4 length unless i'm going to be out for 2hr+ or it's below 45F. and for racing cross, unless the temp calls for it i'd take a couple pre-ride laps in 3/4 but at race time they're too warm. sometimes kneewarmers can be a bit more flexible in changing conditions or right on the edge of temperature comfort. and of course there's always embro.

i do have one set of full length Roubaix style tights, but it's gotta be full on winter for those to come out. then i've gotta think about shoe covers and all types of other stuff, which usually talks me out of it because i'll spend as much time kitting up as i would riding. so i ride the trainer a lot in winter...

[tiretrax]

I have Castelli bib knickers. They are warm and water resistant. They hold up well and keep their shape, which is why I haven't bought a wool pair. I think the Rapha are all synthetic, too. Although the calf is exposed, I am warm enought not to notice.

[carpediemracing]

For knickers right now I have a bunch of Verge knickers. I don't remember what they were, I just ordered enough that I could do an order for myself. I told them to put "Verge" on the side panels. I might have bought 10 pairs, I don't remember. I guess that would explain the reason why I have so many in plastic still.

I thought they had stock supplies of these things but apparently not.

I may do a thermal short order from them for myself.

[paedalas]

Remember it's a bike ride, not a fashion show... I think.

[Gummee]

I'll agree with the 'race in knickers regardless of temps' thing. I've done a few races in full tights and the flapping of the material against my shins was driving me nuts.

I figured out another great use for knickers last winter: wear em under your tights for one more layer of protection over your knees! I have several weights of tights that I can vary the shorts/knickers I wear under em to get the appropriate temp coverage for the day. Lately, I've been wearing knickers under some older PBS polypro tights and varying the thickness of the knickers instead of varying the thickness of the tights

M

[rice rocket]

I figured out another great use for knickers last winter: wear em under your tights for one more layer of protection over your knees! I have several weights of tights that I can vary the shorts/knickers I wear under em to get the appropriate temp coverage for the day. Lately, I've been wearing knickers under some older PBS polypro tights and varying the thickness of the knickers instead of varying the thickness of the tights

M

I have some dhb tights that wore a set of bibshorts under once and I was sweating within the first 5 minutes. I think they're the thicker ones, but they take me from 40s down into the single digits; anything below that, I'd probably just stay home. Knickers 40-50, thermal bib shorts 50-60. I used to layer too, but there are better options IMHO.

[Elefantino]

I like Voler's knicks. But them I'm cheap, as in frugal.

[stackie]

Depending where you live, you might use knickers much more than you think. I used to be a knee warmer type of guy since my experience with knickers (PI) was bad. Always rode up.

Got assos and Rapha knickers now. Both are game changers. No riding up. Can put on for a 45 degree am ride and leave on to 70 degrees easy. Just take my arm warmers off. Very knee friendly.

Jon

[jt2gt]

I have some knickers, but usually end up wearing bibs and defeet knee warmers (only ones I have had that don't fall down, just pull them up high and roll). If you like leg warmers, knee warmers may be just the ticket.

JT

[Ralph]

Some people wear knickers to shield the tops of their legs from sunlight. Here in sunny Florida, I'm more and more thinking I need to cover my arms, backs of hands, and tops of legs. Something that isn't too hot. Or something that when wet with sweat, has cooling effect.

Can use sun lotion for ears, neck, face, etc. When you get a little older, and start getting those pre cancer spots froze off or cut off pretty regularly from cumulative effect of sun exposure, you'll wish you did this years earlier.

[93legendti]

I'll agree with the 'race in knickers regardless of temps' thing. I've done a few races in full tights and the flapping of the material against my shins was driving me nuts.

I figured out another great use for knickers last winter: wear em under your tights for one more layer of protection over your knees! I have several weights of tights that I can vary the shorts/knickers I wear under em to get the appropriate temp coverage for the day. Lately, I've been wearing knickers under some older PBS polypro tights and varying the thickness of the knickers instead of varying the thickness of the tights

M
That's how I use them. The knickers under my Foxwear heavy weight power stretch tights make the days with wind chill in the teens or lower manageable.

[fiamme red]

Some people wear knickers to shield the tops of their legs from sunlight. Here in sunny Florida, I'm more and more thinking I need to cover my arms, backs of hands, and tops of legs. Something that isn't too hot. Or something that when wet with sweat, has cooling effect.

Can use sun lotion for ears, neck, face, etc. When you get a little older, and start getting those pre cancer spots froze off or cut off pretty regularly from cumulative effect of sun exposure, you'll wish you did this years earlier.After getting my legs badly burned while riding at high elevation in Colorado last summer, I bought a pair of Sol Skin leg protectors:

http://www.voler.com/browse/cat/?cat=Accessories,SolSkin

They may not look very stylish, but avoiding melanoma (which runs in my family) is much more important to me.