Is it April 1st already?

[Tony T]

Floyd Landis to headline Yale University discussion on anti-doping (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/floyd-landis-to-headline-yale-university-discussion-on-anti-doping)

[ctcyclistbob]

I hope it's not an April fools thing as I'm planning to attend this on Thursday. It should be interesting.

[thwart]

I dunno... looks like a decent idea to me.

[Louis]

If we're lucky Lance will show up to heckle.

[Tony T]

I wonder if he'll autograph a copy of his book (http://www.amazon.com/Positively-False-Real-Story-France/dp/B0013A05VU/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1361933823&sr=1-1&keywords=floyd+landis). :)

[cfox]

I'm going

[Riders120]

I'll be going. Should prove to be very interesting.

[PQJ]

I'd go if I was up there. The sport of cycling (indeed, perhaps all sports) owes Floyd a big 'thank you.'

[Tony T]

The sport of cycling (indeed, perhaps all sports) owes Floyd a big 'thank you.'

Sort of like thanking Madoff (indeed, all the big banks) for telling us about the problems in the financial system.

[William]

Sort of like thanking Madoff for telling us about the problems in the financial system.

Wouldn't it be more like Martha Stewart tipping us off about Madoff bilking the system?;)




William

[PQJ]

Sort of like thanking Madoff (indeed, all the big banks) for telling us about the problems in the financial system.

No, nothing like it.

[Vientomas]

Is it April 1st? I believe April Fools day is all about pranks and hoaxes. Perhaps you should ask Lance if it is April 1st, after all he perpetuated his hoax longer and more vociferously than anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zad68VOxr8g&feature=youtu.be

[Tony T]

No, nothing like it.

They both "came clean" and they both spoke out against problems in the system.

....and they both are very, very sorry. ;)

[PQJ]

You're revising history (again). Madoff pled guilty but didn't come clean, so far as I'm aware. People knew the financial system was a racket long before people outside the industry even knew who Madoff was; Madoff was simply one bad actor (a very bad one). The financial system remains a racket today. Madoff's case didn't shed light on anything except perhaps SEC negligence and it certainly hasn't changed anything.

Floyd blew the lid open on an entire system and we may see meaningful change because of it.

They're nothing alike but I know that nothing I say will change your blind hatred of Floyd.

[Wayne77]

Next stop on his speaking circuit: "Transitioning your business model from charity to rat: It's all about opportunity, timing, & ROI"

Sponsored by the Ft. Leavenworth New Inmate Onboarding program, in partnership with the DOJ. First meeting at the Aspen, CO city hall. Free donuts.

[Tony T]

....Free donuts.
http://images.crystalscomments.com/6/13647.jpg

[Keith A]

I heard that Martha's been talking to Lance for some tips on cycling :rolleyes:

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/stewartgrab1.jpg

[ctcyclistbob]

I thought the discussion was great; the panelists were some of the top guys in their fields, and all were very bright and articulate.

Here are summaries (what I could find as of now):
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2013/02/28/doping-cycling-floyd-landis-travis-tygart/1954969/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/feb/28/floyd-landis-doping-cycling-yale-live

Some points to come out of it:
- Floyd said he had no choice if he wanted to achieve his goals
- not all athletes gain same benefit from PEDs so it wasn't level playing field
- today's wattage, speed, and climbing times are about 10% less than those during peak PED years
- (in a way) cyclists were a victim of the culture of doping
- it will never be known if Floyd (or anyone else) could have won clean

[Riders120]

I went as well. I thought it was pretty interesting. Didn't learn anything new really but didn't go there expecting to. Seems like we are heading in the right direction and it will take a while but anything is better than what it was

[victoryfactory]

Sort of like thanking Madoff (indeed, all the big banks) for telling us about the problems in the financial system.

At one point Madoff was the SEC poster child for how to do it right.
He was even speaking at sec sponsored events!

Ha Ha Ha

btw, CtCyclistBob;
that Yale thing sounds like it was interesting
Thanks for posting:
Floyd said he had no choice if he wanted to achieve his goals
- not all athletes gain same benefit from PEDs so it wasn't level playing field
- today's wattage, speed, and climbing times are about 10% less than those during peak PED years
- (in a way) cyclists were a victim of the culture of doping
- it will never be known if Floyd (or anyone else) could have won clean


VF

[Tony T]

- Floyd said he had no choice if he wanted to achieve his goals.

Was he talking about his doping in cycling, or his wire fraud to try to keep the TDF title?

[ctcyclistbob]

Was he talking about his doping in cycling, or his wire fraud to try to keep the TDF title?

No mention of wire fraud, not a surprise.

They did talk about a trial where Floyd lied, so that's perjury along with his other wrong-doings. Did Floyd get immunity from what he was charged with, or did he receive punishment?

[Tony T]

Did Floyd get immunity from what he was charged with, or did he receive punishment?

His "punishment" was that he has to pay back the money he stole.

[victoryfactory]

So Floyd felt he needed to dope
to be a big time bike racer?
Lots of riders did. It was (is) common

The lying has to follow. Has to.
That's how the guys get trapped. They start out thinking
"I need to compete, so I'll just do this but I'm a good person,
not a liar or a cheater"

Then it's too late, you have to cover your ass so you live the lie.
Then you have to tell the lie and the better you are at the game the longer it takes
to get caught.

Madoff, Lance. etc.

I'm for truth and reconciliation. Lets start fresh. Stop beating the dead horse.
It only slows down the healing, lets get past this stuff.

VF

[PQJ]

Yes, dead horse, but let's beat it anyway:

Floyd admitted to fraud, was ordered to pay nearly $500k in restitution, and could wind up behind bars if he doesn't pay it. In other words, a plea bargain, like thousands before him. Lance could likely get a plea bargain, too, if he were so inclined. He could also likely have received leniency from USADA, if he'd played the game like others before him.

[victoryfactory]

Yes, dead horse, but let's beat it anyway:

Floyd admitted to fraud, was ordered to pay nearly $500k in restitution, and could wind up behind bars if he doesn't pay it. In other words, a plea bargain, like thousands before him. Lance could likely get a plea bargain, too, if he were so inclined. He could also likely have received leniency from USADA, if he'd played the game like others before him.

Doped bike riders should be treated like heroin addicts, not like master criminals.
Get them out of the sport, sure. Help them reform, sure.
But the sport and spectacle of gigantic lawsuits and jail etc. is a vindictive
and unhelpful distraction. This sideshoe is delaying the fix. imo

VF

[PQJ]

Doped bike riders should be treated like heroin addicts, not like master criminals.
Get them out of the sport, sure. Help them reform, sure.
But the sport and spectacle of gigantic lawsuits and jail etc. is a vindictive
and unhelpful distraction. This sideshoe is delaying the fix. imo

VF

This thread is, ostensibly, about a panel on which Floyd participated to discuss doping in the sport and how to fix the problem - ie, it is part of the fix.

Lawsuits, jail, etc. relate to things like defrauding private citizens, defrauding the government and lying under oath. You know, the kinds of things you and I could be held accountable for, too. If Floyd or Lance end up in jail, it won't be because they doped.

I agree that doped bike riders should land up in jail no more than someone caught with a bag of weed. But I don't make the laws.

[Tony T]

Floyd admitted to fraud, was ordered to pay nearly $500k in restitution, and could wind up behind bars if he doesn't pay it. In other words, a plea bargain, like thousands before him.

Not exactly. He's limited to a % of his income (so it would be possible that he pays back nothing if he earns nothing. His assets are protected.), so there is no way he would end up behind bars. In other words, a sweetheart deal.

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/DeadHorse.gif

[ctcyclistbob]

This thread is, ostensibly, about a panel on which Floyd participated to discuss doping in the sport and how to fix the problem - ie, it is part of the fix.


Excellent point, and true. This thing is going in the right direction, and the challenge is to keep it there. The more awareness there is the better the chances of that.

[echappist]

- not all athletes gain same benefit from PEDs so it wasn't level playing field


Sadly, this point is often lost amongst the people who advocate for doping, believing it somehow turns into a "level" playing field if every does it. Rarely does anything think that, well, EPO is a drug, and if not all patients respond to a drug in the same quantitative fashion, why should i expect all athletes to respond to EPO in the same quantitative fashion?

-----

That aside, i thought it was great

-Prof Hacker, btw, is also a competitive cyclist who won Div-II collegiate national road race back when he was a grad student at Yale
-I'm glad that he brought up the case of Chodroff. Chodroff, aka the Ch**d, graduated the same year as I though we never crossed paths. What a disgrace he was, doping while a cat-3 and giving Yale cyclists a bad name...
-Anyone noted how skillfully Prof. Hacker handled that self-absorbed lady at the end?

Too bad i missed parts of it, oh well.

[Vientomas]

Not exactly. He's limited to a % of his income (so it would be possible that he pays back nothing if he earns nothing. His assets are protected.), so there is no way he would end up behind bars. In other words, a sweetheart deal.

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/DeadHorse.gif

I don't think that is an accurate statement Tony.

Read the Deferred Prosecution Agreement attached to Floyd's Affidavit. http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/FL+Landis,+Floyd+Affidavit.pdf

What you are referring to is a payment schedule which provides how much of Floyd's income can be applied to pay restitution during the deferred prosecution period. The entire restitution amount is a judgment that survives the deferred prosecution period, cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and continues to be enforceable by the Government after the period of deferred prosecution has ended.

[ctcyclistbob]

-Anyone noted how skillfully Prof. Hacker handled that self-absorbed lady at the end?


Yeah, that was strange. Hacker announced one more question, and after that question and its answer, she stepped to the mic and proceeded to talk about herself and then tried to ask another question. He gracefully stopped her and made a closing comment.

[Tony T]

I don't think that is an accurate statement Tony.

Read the Deferred Prosecution Agreement attached to Floyd's Affidavit. http://d3epuodzu3wuis.cloudfront.net/FL+Landis,+Floyd+Affidavit.pdf

What you are referring to is a payment schedule which provides how much of Floyd's income can be applied to pay restitution during the deferred prosecution period. The entire restitution amount is a judgment that survives the deferred prosecution period, cannot be discharged in bankruptcy, and continues to be enforceable by the Government after the period of deferred prosecution has ended.

It's still based on his income. If he earns $50,000 (net of taxes), then he pays $2,500 as restitution in that year. If he earns $200,000 then he makes restitution of $100,000. If he never makes another dime, and lives off of his assets, then he pays $0 as restitution.

Anyway, the point I made was that he will never go the jail, as he will always be able to abide by the payment schedule. And there is no interest factor, so it will be nothing but an interest free loan to him. How is this not a great deal for Floyd?

http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/DeadHorse.gif

[Riders120]

He did handle her well. She's Jan Bolland. She was part of a team that won worlds in '92 I believe. Part of a 50k team trial squad. I think everything went very smoothly until she stepped up. He handled it very well by applauding the panel

[572cv]

Floyd Landis to headline Yale University discussion on anti-doping (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/floyd-landis-to-headline-yale-university-discussion-on-anti-doping)

It is closing in on the Ides of March.

[ctcyclistbob]

Here's the seminar on Vimeo:
http://vimeo.com/60851011