News flash: Lynskey Ti frames starting at $1100

[bargainguy]

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2013/02/26/lynskey-introduces-1-100-ti-frame-line

Now this could be interesting!

[echelon_john]

It's a Pronto/Fondo killer.

[54ny77]

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z113/jpmz06/Bike/ichefti.png

[Fishbike]

Got to hand it to Lynskey. It is not necessarily the most prestigious American ti company, but it offers quality and diverse products and it keeps evolving as a company.

[rnhood]

I think value has always been a Lynsky focus. Smart engineering is one way to deliver the value. Of course smart marketing is another.

[Vientomas]

Why the sudden ability to produce frames at a lower price? Material and/or labor costs plummet? Lower profit margins?

[MattTuck]

"Boss, we're selling these so cheap, we're losing money on every frame!"

"that's ok, we'll make it up with volume."

[tuscanyswe]

1100?? Even if the ti is from asia is still very cheap. Its not much more than they would cost if you ordered directly from asia. Are these still welded in US or are they just putting their logos on someone elses work?

[beercan]

sounds interesting, i wonder what their commuter will be, i spoke with a rep awhile ago and they have a sizing swap where if it doesnt fit you can switch to the one you want in 30 days or so, not a bad idea.

[wc1934]

"The frames also will be available as complete bikes, with the most expensive model, a road bike with Shimano 105 parts, retailing for $2,499".

Most expensive model - Is that a typo - did they mean least expensive?

[tuscanyswe]

"The frames also will be available as complete bikes, with the most expensive model, a road bike with Shimano 105 parts, retailing for $2,499".

Most expensive model - Is that a typo - did they mean least expensive?

Perhaps not. If they are targeting a new crowd who previously couldent afford a new titanium bike, it would not make alot of sense speccing the cheap frames with super record, so perhaps 105 is the creme de la creme for this particular line of bikes.

[Ralph]

Frame and Fork? Or frame?

[shovelhd]

I wonder what they consider to be ample dealer margins. We needs ta find out.

[ultraman6970]

Seriously, how much is the cost for them of one of those frames?

[Len J]

So $1,100 w a 25% dealer margin is out the factory at $825. What does a straight gauge tube set cost? Even bulk, there can't be much margin at that sell price.

Can they be machine welding?

Len

[dekindy]

Oh my goodness, wish I had waited a couple of months. Would have sold the Colorado instead of refinishing it and would have never needed to worry again with titanium Serotta Legend and this Lynskey as a backup. Might be one in the future anyway.

[gdw]

"What does a straight gauge tube set cost? Even bulk, there can't be much margin at that sell price."

Anyone can buy a straight gauge ti tubeset, dropouts, a bottom bracket, and brazons for around $500 from Nova Cycle Supply so you know that Lynskey can buy them for less.

[Len J]

"What does a straight gauge tube set cost? Even bulk, there can't be much margin at that sell price."

Anyone can buy a straight gauge ti tubeset, dropouts, a bottom bracket, and brazons for around $500 from Nova Cycle Supply so you know that Lynskey can buy them for less.

So if they buy for $250.....still after labor, benefits waste, supplies and fixed costs, not much margin.

Len

[cnighbor1]

Ti is it still the material to have? i see almost no new ti frames when out riding. and sunday at peets in danville the big boys were there and they ride CF and one ed litton steel
so is ti dead
charles

[bargainguy]

Certainly not with the boutique builders - Moots, IF, Firefly, KB, Seven etc. I think there's been a backlash against carbon lately, but who knows.

[eddief]

How the hell do they choose geometry for those 3 road bikes? Price point seems amazing. How they doin it? Are the tubes galvanized pipes painted a titanium color? Could it ride like a real bike? Bringing ti to the middle class.

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/silver/

[jr59]

I sure saw a LOT of it in Denver this past weekend!

[phcollard]

I know Lynskey does not get much love here but I have had an excellent experience with them. I had a R330 and it was a fantastic bike for the price. I also had a small issue with a Cooper before that and their customer service was absolutely fantastic, like I have seldom experienced.

I'm happy to see the new budget line. A brief look and they look like good frames with nice geo (for me at least). It's good to see folks from the USA trying to take that share of the Ti market. Congrats. I understood the frames are still welded in the US. I'm even considering one :)

[rugbysecondrow]

Great deal, lifetime warranty...hmmm, maybe I need a new 29er?

[Louis]

TST Ti tubing price list here (http://www.titaniumsports.com/TITANIUM%20TUBING%20PRICE%20LIST.pdf)

I have a frame I bought from them a few years ago. I think it was around $600. Back then I think it was all made in the US, tubing and frame manufacturing.

[Jack Brunk]

I sure saw a LOT of it in Denver this past weekend!

Don't tell Charles, he might faint.

I sure hope he was kidding.

[dekindy]

Frame and Fork? Or frame?

Queried their website this evening and will post answer when I receive it.

[djg]

Geeze, I dunno. Seems like a very favorable price for a US-built Ti frame and it could be great for some people. Without having anything to go on besides what's posted, I don't see anything in particular that grabs me, but that's just me and I'm not shopping for a bike in any case.

Less fancy pipes sourced from somewhere, and purchased in large quantities, might be just fine, and also much less expensive than some things with which we're more familiar -- I've really no idea what might be automated or what their manufacturing costs might be. The pictures look like pictures of shiny bikes, and might be both terrific and a very good value for people who want what's offered.

Or not quite what you want. On a quick peak, I'm not seeing a road geometry and size that looks quite like what I'd want, which is not to say that somebody else shouldn't be thrilled. I noticed, for example, that the Breakaway model jumps from a 53cm "effective" top tube to a 55.5 -- either might be perfect for somebody. For me, well, I realize that it's only an inch in between, and that there's a big world of stems out there, and that there's the linear measurement, the angles, etc., etc., but I think that every road bike I've ever liked -- ever, since that last teen-aged growth spurt in the '70s -- had a top tube longer than 53cm and shorter than 55.5 and I don't see anything else posted on the geo chart to make me forget about that. Even if I were in the market for this sort of thing, there's just no way I'd order one.

[54ny77]

if serotta did something like this at this price point, i'd put an order in tonight.

i've never had ti, but at this price point, i'd like to try it.

great way to get a sip of the cool aid.

might even try this lynskey, who knows.

can't even find a used moots at 2x the lynskey price.

[fourflys]

re: "cheap, asian ti"

not real sure most would be able to tell the difference between Asian ti or 'Merican ti... way too many other factors to make a bigger difference...

[thirdgenbird]

Titanium 650b hardtail, xt components, and what look st to be a well rated fork for $2500. I've been out of the mtb scene for a few years, but that sounds decent.

[fourflys]

wow, the 650b looks like a killer deal...

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/silver/mt-650/

[robin3mj]

42.5 is a loooong chainstay for a skinny tired road bike.

[54ny77]

hadn't seen that, thanks for pointing it out. it's a solid 1 cm+ longer than my longest ride. dunno how it'd realistically affect ride/handling.

maybe it's a smooth ridin' caddy....

http://blogjackthreads.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/1953-cadillac-lemans-roadster-623x400.jpeg

[Peter B]

42.5 is a loooong chainstay for a skinny tired road bike.


Not according to some who know.

[54ny77]

i don't think about this stuff too much nor do i really want/need to know, i just ride whatever i'm on and get used to it's characteristics.

that said, it would be at least interesting to get a rudimentary grasp of the theory behind longer stays.

any experts want to chime in?

[rice rocket]

42.5 is a loooong chainstay for a skinny tired road bike.

My favorite bike I've owned has 395mm chainstays. I can cross chain like a fool without dropping, and I don't have excessive chain wear as far as I've noticed. :)

[ultraman6970]

IMO this is for comfort and sure is because looks like 25s, 28s and even larger tires are the mode lately.

42.5 is a loooong chainstay for a skinny tired road bike.

[rice rocket]

IMO this is for comfort and sure is because looks like 25s, 28s and even larger tires are the mode lately.

I buy that reasoning for the Viale, which is their commuter or whatever, but the other two are sold as "road" bikes @ 42.5cm.

My mountain bike has shorter chainstays... :eek:

[oldpotatoe]

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/product-tech/2013/02/26/lynskey-introduces-1-100-ti-frame-line

Now this could be interesting!

Wonder where they are made. Wonder where the tubes come from if they are welding them together.

[oldpotatoe]

Why the sudden ability to produce frames at a lower price? Material and/or labor costs plummet? Lower profit margins?

http://www.habcycles.com/

[oldpotatoe]

So $1,100 w a 25% dealer margin is out the factory at $825. What does a straight gauge tube set cost? Even bulk, there can't be much margin at that sell price.

Can they be machine welding?

Len

No 'smart' bike shop will sell anything with a 25% margin. Below the recognized minimum to keep the lights on(35% margin, not markup).

[jr59]

No 'smart' bike shop will sell anything with a 25% margin. Below the recognized minimum to keep the lights on(35% margin, not markup).


Darn, There goes Old (and I mean OLD)potatoe again, bring logic to the forum.

[dekindy]

Can you get aircraft grade from China?

[dekindy]

exchanged emails and instant message with Don Irwin, sales manager at Lynskey, this morning

website is vague because dealer released info early so they wanted to get it out there-final pricing and more info available next week

did nto really answer if fork was included, so probably not considering the price

titanium is aircraft grade but would not commit to total USA sourcing, says it depends upon the model and tube

encouraged him to contact forum about vendor posting rules and he indicated he would

did verify that Peloton pricing starts at $1,099 and complete bikes at $2,199 which is all that I was interested in

go to their website and instant message for more details, they are on now.

[Liberace]

exchanged emails and instant message with Don Irwin, sales manager at Lynskey, this morning

website is vague because dealer released info early so they wanted to get it out there-final pricing and more info available next week

did nto really answer if fork was included, so probably not considering the price

titanium is aircraft grade but would not commit to total USA sourcing, says it depends upon the model and tube

encouraged him to contact forum about vendor posting rules and he indicated he would

did verify that Peloton pricing starts at $1,099 and complete bikes at $2,199 which is all that I was interested in

go to their website and instant message for more details, they are on now.

Is it being built in-house?

[dekindy]

Is it being built in-house?

had a long conversation so purposely left out the details to let Lynskey speak for themselves which I hope they will do

if I remember correctly he said that Lynskey is 100% manufactured at their Chattanooga, TN facility-apparently titanium is certified aircraft grade but did not indicate source other than to say it is bid out and depends on frame and tube

[dekindy]

lynskey sales manager has link to this thread and you can instant message him on the website if you want to have a conversation

[victoryfactory]

I had a Lynskey Cooper Cross bike. Very Nice.
I've also owned a Litespeed Tuscany which was great.
At one time also an Arenberg which was their cheapest frame at the time.
It had straight gauge tubes, very smooth ride. Bit of a noodle.

I trust them to do this low cost Ti thing. They have more experience than most. And a track record of years of Ti innovation (both real and marketing driven)
They were among the first to do 6/4 Ti Tubes. They experimented with tube shapes.
They have taken the same guff from the cognoscenti as Serotta for daring to try to turn
their business into a medium sized company rather than a one man boutique operation.

Based on my Cooper Cross frame, I'd say they are saving money on the time consuming
finish process, which must take hours per frame, along with straight tubes.
The frame itself was very nicely welded.

VF

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd493/victoryfactory/BFC28672-631C-41E0-B5E6-BB48ECE97C10-169-0000000E866E69C8.jpg

[zap]

I trust them to do this low cost Ti thing.

I don't.

[johnniecakes]

I don't.

Based On ????

[zap]

Based On ????

My experience with an earlier Lynskey "budget" frame. Back then their company was called Litespeed.

You can see my post in the other thread Lynskey v boutique US$4K or do some deep searching in this forum.

[VA-Scooter]

I kind of hate to see them do this. I have known the Lynskey's since before they made bicycles & I think when Litespeed got too big it hurt the quality & reputation. I think what they excel at is that niche between a one man boutique & a full blown factory. That being said I think the Lynskey's sold Litespeed more than a decade ago. I know they had a 7 year non-compete & then started the new company. I think they sold to ABG in 1999.

[Ahneida Ride]

you need to build a 55 cm bike ...

you build 10 in a row ..... that saves frns.

(and no custom) they are built to a tricks pre-determined build sheet.

[tuscanyswe]

Lynskey built the planet x ti bikes. These were very cheap. Its not something that is new to them even tho these may be even cheaper. Not sure about that tho.

[thirdgenbird]

I believe they also supplied performance with ti frames. I think they were in the same price range.

[sokyroadie]

I believe they also supplied performance with ti frames. I think they were in the same price range.

Yes they did, and Performance closed them out for $595.00 - I had one, and it rode great, just wanted a taller HT. It also had a 45cm chainstay for some reason, but still rode fine.

Jeff

[thirdgenbird]

Did it look fairly similar to this one? I can't recall what they looked like.

Edit: did soe searching. The finish appears to be better on the lynskey branded frame. I can't find enough detail pictures to note any other differences,

[fourflys]

re: where they are made...

on the website page, it says they are handcrafted in the Chattanooga facility using aerospace grade 3AL-2.5v Ti...

it does not talk about the source of the tubes... but again, do you really think you'll be able to tell between a us ti tube and a chinese one of the same diameter, etc?

[eddief]

I'd think 3x about getting on an Eastern made airliner. Oh, maybe that's why we all ride in Boeing jets :)

re: where they are made...

on the website page, it says they are handcrafted in the Chattanooga facility using aerospace grade 3AL-2.5v Ti...

it does not talk about the source of the tubes... but again, do you really think you'll be able to tell between a us ti tube and a chinese one of the same diameter, etc?

[pbarry]

At that price point, they might be netting $100-200 a frame profit, but if they sell 2,000 a year, that's doing good in the bike biz! The pool of talent in TN must be fantastic with all the folks who worked for Litespeed through the years. Best labor for the $ is in the South. Ask BMW and Honda.

The geo chart is the only thing that doesn't thrill me, but it's in line with the "new" Merlin and others. When did head tubes get so slack? Lordy, ride a nice road bike with a more responsive front end, and life is goood. :) But everyone, save for Colnago has gone that direction for the last decade.

Lynskey had put more people on Ti bikes than anyone. Go, Bra!! :banana:

[wbrownie]

Looks interesting. Can't wait to see them in the flesh.

[Charles M]

They have a very nice new facility and went from being over sold to having some capacity to build more... Seems like a pretty reasonable addition to fill out the line.

There are not a lot of folks with more / better it bike skills and understanding than the Lynskeys.

Ide have no problem owning /riding one of these if i were buying it on any sort of budget.

[oldpotatoe]

At that price point, they might be netting $100-200 a frame profit, but if they sell 2,000 a year, that's doing good in the bike biz! The pool of talent in TN must be fantastic with all the folks who worked for Litespeed through the years. Best labor for the $ is in the South. Ask BMW and Honda.

The geo chart is the only thing that doesn't thrill me, but it's in line with the "new" Merlin and others. When did head tubes get so slack? Lordy, ride a nice road bike with a more responsive front end, and life is goood. :) But everyone, save for Colnago has gone that direction for the last decade.

Lynskey had put more people on Ti bikes than anyone. Go, Bra!! :banana:

$200 per frame isn't 'profit'. Considering costs, fixed and variable, they are losing money at $200 per frame, I suspect.

Yep, if they sell a bunch of them(I doubt they sell 2000 frames total right now, all models of Lynskey) they can realize some net profit from that but ask Ultimate Electronics or Circuit City about what happens when you lose that volume.

[pbarry]

$200 per frame isn't 'profit'. Considering costs, fixed and variable, they are losing money at $200 per frame, I suspect.

Yep, if they sell a bunch of them(I doubt they sell 2000 frames total right now, all models of Lynskey) they can realize some net profit from that but ask Ultimate Electronics or Circuit City about what happens when you lose that volume.

That's why I used the word, netting. Comparing a manufacturer to a retailer is a non-starter. Completely different business models. With investment in a new facility, Lynskey can take advantage of Section 179 deductions including bonus depreciation. They're doing the new model launch at an excellent time and I wish them the best.

[oldpotatoe]

That's why I used the word, netting. Comparing a manufacturer to a retailer is a non-starter. Completely different business models. With investment in a new facility, Lynskey can take advantage of Section 179 deductions including bonus depreciation. They're doing the new model launch at an excellent time and I wish them the best.

I used the Section 179 depreciation on my TuffShed.

Manufacturing and retail use the same basic principals with regards to things like cash flow, inventory management, fixed and variable costs, taxes, labor costs, etc. I wouldn't really say it was a non-starter.

[tuscanyswe]

How will this affect their other lines of bikes i wonder. Would you buy a frame for 4000 from same company that makes a bike for 1000 that looks the same and use the same material and is built by the same ppl?

I suspect its going to be hard to cater both extreme sides of the pricerange.

Wish them luck tho!

[Mikej]

Juat a side note: AEROSPACE GRADE is not a very specific description. It can become very complicated. I think grade 28 seamless COLD WORKED STRESS RELIEVED is what the "botique" builders use. Aerospace grade can be made in sheets and rolled into tubing for very cheap. I asked the sales rep about specifics, since he did not in specific say seamless cwsr USA made, I would have to think its not the best. I mean, a 1 3/4" down tube for most ti customs runs around $300 in cwsr seamless usa made ti for comparison.

[54ny77]

yes.

if serotta did this price point i would order one tomorrow. just because it's a serotta, and i would trust them that it would be sorted. i would expect differentiation on its upstream product (legend, meivici, etc.).

they need a frame that's not 8k, 5k or even 3.5k (i.e. the pronto, which is basically the same thing going on as lynskey with its asian-sourced ti tubing and welded here in u.s., right?).

that's not to satisfy buyers today--it's to groom buyers for 5-10 years from now to the brand.

maybe lynskey's on to something here? who knows.

Would you buy a frame for 4000 from same company that makes a bike for 1000 that looks the same and use the same material and is built by the same ppl?

[tuscanyswe]

yes.

if serotta did this price point i would order one tomorrow. just because it's a serotta, and i would trust them that it would be sorted. i would expect differentiation on its upstream product (legend, meivici, etc.).

they need a frame that's not 8k, 5k or even 3.5k (i.e. the pronto, which is basically the same thing going on as lynskey with its asian-sourced ti tubing and welded here in u.s., right?).

that's not to satisfy buyers today--it's to groom buyers for 5-10 years from now to the brand.

maybe lynskey's on to something here? who knows.


I think its the opposite actually. I think they are grooming ppl to expect their frames to be cheap and great value. I don think the effect will be instant but over time i think thats what will happen.

Sure i too would buy a serotta now at 1000 hands down but would i buy a legend for 8k in 5 years if i see lots of ppl riding their 1k bikes from the same company. Not so sure about that. One is buying quality but one is also buying exclusivity or the perception of them. These qualities are hard for companies to remain over time if/when dumping prices.

[Pete Mckeon]

Buy used:). Otherwise buy the one you like the best and puts the biggest smile on your face. If ti then it will last you a long time and can upgrade components over the years if you want. :). And the little nagging voice of "another frame". Will not be there.

If saving $$$$$ is the main priority for you.....don't buy anything and put the money in bank or not on credit card. AND ENJOY the BIKE YOU HAVE:bike:

[pbarry]

I used the Section 179 depreciation on my TuffShed.

Manufacturing and retail use the same basic principals with regards to things like cash flow, inventory management, fixed and variable costs, taxes, labor costs, etc. I wouldn't really say it was a non-starter.

Almost every business shares the above, unless they are entirely service based. Retail has a fraction of the capital investment that is typical in manufacturing. Training costs are minimal for retail vs. manufacturing. Inventory issues, also, vastly different. Wage structure, insurance costs, OSHA compliance, etc., miles apart. It's not an apt comparison.

[Kirk Pacenti]

...I doubt they sell 2000 frames total right now, all models of Lynskey...

Fwiw, when I was there I was managing the production (just north) of 4,000 frames per year.

That said, I never really understood their business model(s). But they seem to make it work for them.

Cheers,
KP

[Kirk Pacenti]

if saving $$$$$ is the main priority for you.....don't buy anything and put the money in bank or not on credit card. And enjoy the bike you have:bike:

+1

[pbarry]

Wow, that's double what I imagined. Impressive.

Fwiw, when I was there I was managing the production (just north) of 4,000 frames per year.

That said, I never really understood their business model(s). But they seem to make it work for them.

Cheers,
KP

[zap]

yes.

if serotta did this price point i would order one tomorrow. just because it's a serotta, and i would trust them that it would be sorted.

Serotta did in the late 90's-Aluminium frame-not built by them but that firm (starts with a K) out in Washington. It was not very good compared to like priced models from bigger firms.

[54ny77]

lynskey was litespeed, right?

[Peter B]

Buy used:). <snip> :). And the little nagging voice of "another frame". Will not be there.



C'mon Pete, that little nagging voice will *always* be there. :)

[Kirk Pacenti]

Wow, that's double what I imagined. Impressive.

I should probably note that not all these bikes were Lynskey's. We did LOTS of OE work for other brands.

Iirc, of the Lynskey's we built only about 35% were sold in the US. The vast majority went to Asia and Europe.

Cheers,
KP

[1/2 Wheeler]

Juat a side note: AEROSPACE GRADE is not a very specific description. It can become very complicated. I think grade 28 seamless COLD WORKED STRESS RELIEVED is what the "botique" builders use. Aerospace grade can be made in sheets and rolled into tubing for very cheap. I asked the sales rep about specifics, since he did not in specific say seamless cwsr USA made, I would have to think its not the best. I mean, a 1 3/4" down tube for most ti customs runs around $300 in cwsr seamless usa made ti for comparison.

Do you really think that matters for a bike frame?

It certianly matters for any kind of pressure vessel but not so much for this application.

[tuscanyswe]

I should probably note that not all these bikes were Lynskey's. We did LOTS of OE work for other brands.

Iirc, of the Lynskey's we built only about 35% were sold in the US. The vast majority went to Asia and Europe.

Cheers,
KP


So perhaps some 6000 frames per year? wow thats ALOT more than i thought!

[rugbysecondrow]

I think this is a great opportunity. I am certain that Lynskey evaluated how they can do this and then set their price point.

As with many other types of firms and businesses in this economy, many are pricing work or bidding projects to keep the lights on, keep staff on board and avoid RIFs...maybe this business model does that for them now. Higher volume might cover expenses, staffing, but not much profit now.

[Kirk Pacenti]

So perhaps some 6000 frames per year? wow thats ALOT more than i thought!

No, just a hair over 4,000 frames total...

Cheers,

KP

[tuscanyswe]

No, just a hair over 4,000 frames total...

Cheers,

KP

Oh i thought planet x alone was quite alot of frames.

Regardless, still alot more produces frames than i would have guessed.

[zap]

I think this is a great opportunity. I am certain that Lynskey evaluated how they can do this and then set their price point.

As with many other types of firms and businesses in this economy, many are pricing work or bidding projects to keep the lights on, keep staff on board and avoid RIFs...maybe this business model does that for them now. Higher volume might cover expenses, staffing, but not much profit now.

Maybe, but it comes with many obstacles that some firms cannot overcome. Much depends on the resources of the firm, mid/long term goals etc.

Based on my manufacturing (not cycling related) experience, I learned that low cost/low margin means compromises. You push the limits to add one two more points. Anyone can sell less expensive/low margin units. It takes hard work and skills to find and close high margin opportunities. It's a dance.

[VA-Scooter]

lynskey was litespeed, right?

David Lynskey started Litespeed in the mid 80s-The entire family was involved-Mom,Dad Brothers & a Sister I believe. They sold it in 1999 with a 7 year No bicycle business-Non-compete. When that was over they started Lynskey Performance Designs.

[gordieax]

I also did an on-line chat w/ a sales manager @ Lynskey today. Through our conversation I was informed that the Silver Series frames are straight guage ti,welded and built up in the Tenn factory and complete bikes come w/ Shimano 105 components and Lynskey carbon forks. Wheels are Shimano R501 w/Kenda 23mm tires. Headsets, bars and seat posts are FSA. One question for comparison at this price point might be what is the difference in quality between the Lynskey models and the Motobecane Ti models available thru BikesDirect?? I don't know enough to answer that comparison.

[dekindy]

what is the difference in quality between the Lynskey models and the Motobecane Ti models available thru BikesDirect?? I don't know enough to answer that comparison.

BikesDirect models have received rave reviews in the past and the cheaper foreign labor is a cost advantage. BD higher volume?

Warranty would probably favor Lynskey.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Oh i thought planet x alone was quite alot of frames.

Regardless, still alot more produces frames than i would have guessed.

Salsa was probably the biggest OE customer at the time. The last run we did while I was there was 700 frames (mixed models). I think they [Salsa] have since moved production to Taiwan.

Cheers,
KP

[jh_on_the_cape]

I'd think 3x about getting on an Eastern made airliner. Oh, maybe that's why we all ride in Boeing jets :)

Boeing does some assembly in China now.
And we do not all ride in Boeing jets. Airbus is French.
There is more to quality than country of origin.
Just like there is more to a bike frame than material.
How it works out for everybody, manufacturer and customer.

[recordspec]

BikesDirect models have received rave reviews in the past and the cheaper foreign labor is a cost advantage. BD higher volume?

Warranty would probably favor Lynskey.

Come on we need jobs in the USA

How much will it cost the US to save a couple hundred on a Luxury item.

Doing the right thing favors Lynskey

After having 3 commuter bikes stolen I'm liking the Viale

[ahpook]

Good thread.. I've been looking at the Viale for a Portland year-round-fenders bike that will scoot when told to. I'd probably get the frame only and build it up with Rival/Force level SRAM stuff and some fatty A23 wheels. This thread has only increased my determination to make it happen :)

[Mikej]

Do you really think that matters for a bike frame?

It certianly matters for any kind of pressure vessel but not so much for this application.

Yes, it matters. Besides, they usually only use ti for the lining of the pressure vessel for its anti corrosive properties, not is strength. But with bikes tubes matter.

[soulspinner]

Good thread.. I've been looking at the Viale for a Portland year-round-fenders bike that will scoot when told to. I'd probably get the frame only and build it up with Rival/Force level SRAM stuff and some fatty A23 wheels. This thread has only increased my determination to make it happen :)

Exactly. My steel bike with fenders and 23 mm tires is inadequate in winter here. This is a no rust cost effective winter beater that prolly can take a beating better than either of my steel bikes.

[ahpook]

Exactly. My steel bike with fenders and 23 mm tires is inadequate in winter here. This is a no rust cost effective winter beater that prolly can take a beating better than either of my steel bikes.

thanks for the validation soulspinner :) plonked down for it tonight, will let yall know how things turn out in June...

[ahpook]

Took a bit longer to get here than I (or they) expected. But they were super nice about it and kept in good contact, etc. Note the price has bumped another $100 for the next run, so presumably there's some market pressure at work.

Will keep this set updated as the build progresses: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahpook/sets/72157634782860249/

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3803/9364257026_ff76951b44.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9364256444_f7a3b07fb1.jpg

[sokyroadie]

[QUOTE=ahpook;1389302] Note the price has bumped another $100 for the next run, so presumably there's some market pressure at work. QUOTE]



Looks nice, but they bumped the price $200.00 - they are now $1299.00.

[pakora]

Has anyone taken the plunge on a Silver series bike, specifically a 29er hardtail? I'm 6'5" and 215 and wondering if the rear ends will be TOO soft. Probably just taking overstated internets comments too seriously, but I read some folks complaining about stays flexing to the point of dropping chains.

I was looking at the Specialized Carves, and have never ridden ti, but a ti bike with a similar spec in the same range sounds attractive.

[EA120711]

I also did an on-line chat w/ a sales manager @ Lynskey today. Through our conversation I was informed that the Silver Series frames are straight guage ti,welded and built up in the Tenn factory and complete bikes come w/ Shimano 105 components and Lynskey carbon forks. Wheels are Shimano R501 w/Kenda 23mm tires. Headsets, bars and seat posts are FSA. One question for comparison at this price point might be what is the difference in quality between the Lynskey models and the Motobecane Ti models available thru BikesDirect?? I don't know enough to answer that comparison.

Took a bit longer to get here than I (or they) expected. But they were super nice about it and kept in good contact, etc. Note the price has bumped another $100 for the next run, so presumably there's some market pressure at work.

Will keep this set updated as the build progresses: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ahpook/sets/72157634782860249/

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3803/9364257026_ff76951b44.jpg

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5495/9364256444_f7a3b07fb1.jpg

I'm interested to see how this build tuns out for you . Lynskey seems like a great deal for Ti. Just priced out a breakaway frame with an Enve 2.0 for $1686 plus shipping . Almost sounds too good to be true.

[professerr]

Website says the Breakaway will take a 28mm tire too, btw.

[thirdgenbird]

I'm interested to see how this build tuns out for you . Lynskey seems like a great deal for Ti. Just priced out a breakaway frame with an Enve 2.0 for $1686 plus shipping . Almost sounds too good to be true.


Add Campagnolo chorus, record hubs, tb14 rims, and a few parts from deda and you will end up with a great bike for the money.

[rice rocket]

I'm interested to see how this build tuns out for you . Lynskey seems like a great deal for Ti. Just priced out a breakaway frame with an Enve 2.0 for $1686 plus shipping . Almost sounds too good to be true.

I thought breakaway meant S&S couplers. Turns out, those are a $1500 option. :eek: Isn't that more than most retrofitters charge?

[Llewellyn]

I've put down a deposit for a Breakaway frame and a Lynskey fork. Seems a good way to get a decent Ti frame at a pretty good price. The reviews seem pretty positive so I'm sure it will meet my needs just fine.

Going to build it up with parts from my 9 speed stockpile.

[10-4]

My LBS has a full size run of the Breakaway frames in stock, they look really nice, especially for the money.

I've ridden a Helix before, also owned an R430. The Breakaway comes in at less than 1/2. Not sure I can justify another $4000 ti frame.

[ahpook]

I'm interested to see how this build tuns out for you . Lynskey seems like a great deal for Ti. Just priced out a breakaway frame with an Enve 2.0 for $1686 plus shipping . Almost sounds too good to be true.

Soon.... very soon. I had hoped to have it ready this weekend.

I've put down a deposit for a Breakaway frame and a Lynskey fork. Seems a good way to get a decent Ti frame at a pretty good price. The reviews seem pretty positive so I'm sure it will meet my needs just fine.

Going to build it up with parts from my 9 speed stockpile.

Good call -- The fork was the sticking point with mine, I should have sucked it up and bought the fork at the same time as the frame but thought I could get a better one separately. Turns out carbon forks with fender eyelets are rare as hen's teeth.

I noticed for the viale model they've also switched the supplied fork from the Bontrager Satellite to Kinesis DC07 so maybe they're even scarcer now than they were...

[Ahneida Ride]

Years ago .... Serotta said US made Ti

then they said

US sourced Ti ....

Hmmmmmm .....

Does that mean Chi Ti from a US source ?

[rice rocket]

Probably, the US doesn't have nearly as much Ti ore deposits other countries.


Edit:

Significant titanium-bearing ilmenite deposits exist in western Australia, Canada, China, India, Mozambique, New Zealand, Norway, Ukraine and South Africa.[14] About 186,000 tonnes of titanium metal sponge were produced in 2011, mostly in China (60,000 t), Japan (56,000 t), Russia (40,000 t), United States (32,000 t) and Kazakhstan (20,700 t). Total reserves of titanium are estimated to exceed 600 million tonnes.[26]

[eBAUMANN]

i dunno how im just now seeing this thread, but i am very happy to hear this news...anything that brings frame production to US soil is a great thing, especially if those frames have a lynskey badge and a lifetime warranty behind em!

now if only they would knock another $500ish off the coupler up-charge, i wouldnt have to hack my IF in half!

[Kirk Pacenti]

Years ago .... Serotta said US made Ti

then they said

US sourced Ti ....

Hmmmmmm .....

Does that mean Chi Ti from a US source ?

I don't know about Serotta, but for Lynskey, yes, that's exactly what it means.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Probably, the US doesn't have nearly as much Ti ore deposits other countries.


Edit:

Where it (the ore) comes from doesn't matter. Where it's processed does.

[oldpotatoe]

Years ago .... Serotta said US made Ti

then they said

US sourced Ti ....

Hmmmmmm .....

Does that mean Chi Ti from a US source ?

Yep, Chinese or Russian titanium tubes...for Lynskey anyway. I'd guess Litespeed as well. Moots took a look at 'off shore' ti tubes and they weren't consistent nor 'clean' enough..had 'junk' in them that caused problems when welding.

[D dubs]

It seems that there aren't too many folks with this frame yet, so I thought I'd pass on some info for anyone who is interested. I built up a Lynskey Breakaway frame in July, with 9 speed Dura Ace components. My goal was to build a road bike that I might keep long term, and do it without breaking the bank (the price of the frame has gone up by $200 since it came out though).

So far I've ridden about 600 miles or so on the bike, and really enjoyed the frame. Compared to the aluminum Fuji Roubaix Pro that I was riding previously, the Lynskey was much smoother. I've climbed quite a bit on the Lynskey, and I've felt very comfortable with the geometry (also an improvement from my last frame). I've done some descents up to 45mph, and it's a lot of fun in the hills.

I honestly don't have much negative feedback for the frame so far. I originally thought that the "Breakaway" decal was cheesy, which is sort of a weird mushed-together font. I've gotten used to it, or stopped caring though.

This bike fits my needs, as a recreational cyclist (I do not race). I was commenting to my buddy the other day that I finally feel that I don't care to change anything on my bike. We'll see how long it lasts until I have the itch to improve the steed, but for now I'm feeling good about the purchase.

One thing to note is that Lynskey is commonly selling directly to customers, or so I've heard. This will surely piss off some LBS owners, so I suggest going through a shop if you purchase the frame.

Hope this helps!

[Llewellyn]

It seems that there aren't too many folks with this frame yet, so I thought I'd pass on some info for anyone who is interested. I built up a Lynskey Breakaway frame in July, with 9 speed Dura Ace components. My goal was to build a road bike that I might keep long term, and do it without breaking the bank (the price of the frame has gone up by $200 since it came out though).

So far I've ridden about 600 miles or so on the bike, and really enjoyed the frame. Compared to the aluminum Fuji Roubaix Pro that I was riding previously, the Lynskey was much smoother. I've climbed quite a bit on the Lynskey, and I've felt very comfortable with the geometry (also an improvement from my last frame). I've done some descents up to 45mph, and it's a lot of fun in the hills.

I honestly don't have much negative feedback for the frame so far. I originally thought that the "Breakaway" decal was cheesy, which is sort of a weird mushed-together font. I've gotten used to it, or stopped caring though.

This bike fits my needs, as a recreational cyclist (I do not race). I was commenting to my buddy the other day that I finally feel that I don't care to change anything on my bike. We'll see how long it lasts until I have the itch to improve the steed, but for now I'm feeling good about the purchase.



What a timely post because my Breakaway frame arrived today. I'm looking to do pretty much the same as you, training rides but no racing - mine will be 9 speed Shimano from my stockpile of parts. I also bought it for the same sort of reason - I fancied a titanium ride and this was an affordable way of doing it.

I must say that the welds look first class. I'm looking forward to building it up and putting some k's under the wheels. I also agree about the Breakaway decal and I might remove it a bit later on if I decide that I can't bear it.

[GT2R]

For those of you that already have one, lets see some pics!

[lookout2015]

One thing to note is that Lynskey is commonly selling directly to customers, or so I've heard. This will surely piss off some LBS owners, so I suggest going through a shop if you purchase the frame.



Not only do they sell direct, they now do financing. I was on their site yesterday and noticed they're now very prominently pushing a "TiFi" instant financing program. It's right now on their front page of their store: https://www.lynskeyperformance.com/store/

Somehow I don't think that'll smooth over relationships with their LBS chain :banana:

[bargainguy]

I can take a mortgage on a Lynskey? Awesome!

Just a guess here, but the decision to deal directly with a customer might have more to do with slim margins than anything else. For all we know, they might be using the first 10/100/1000 frames as a loss leader just to get the word out, then incrementally increase the price as demand increases. Still a deal, just not the same deal as the initial launch.

Someone else in the production bike biz care to comment?

[ahpook]

Started a thread with my built-up Viale. Rides really nice and came out just as I hoped.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1419413#post1419413

[Hawker]

Great looking bike. What does a medium size bike with high end components generally weigh? I ride a small so I'm betting 16lbs is a distinct possibility.

[Llewellyn]

I thought an update on my frame buying experience would serve as a warning for others that might be thinking of buying one of these frames in Australia. I bought my frame from a dealer in the eastern states, paid the quoted freight cost and the first frame was shipped quickly and arrived as scheduled on a Friday. After I opened the box I noticed that the bubble wrap around the frame had 54 written on it. Becoming a bit concerned I measured it and compared it to the specs on the website.

They had sent the wrong size frame – they had sent a large when I had ordered a medium/large. I contacted the dealer, explained the situation and asked if it could be exchanged for the correct size. “No problem, send it back” was the reply. I asked if I could use the dealer’s freight account to make the logistics easier. After following up my first unanswered email, the reply was “sure, no problem. I’ll just charge you what they charge me”.

I can’t speak for other places, but over here, it’s usual practice that a supplier wears the shipping costs of replacing something if they don’t send you the right item. I pointed this out to the seller, but didn’t get a response. Sensing that the sellers tone was now not quite as enthusiastic as when I was first buying the frame, I (perhaps foolishly) said that if they were going to insist I pay for return shipping, then I would have to accept it, but I wasn’t happy about their position. I offered this as a potential solution and hoped they would change their mind afterwards, rather than run the risk of being stuck with a frame that was too big for me, and therefore completely useless.

I’ve now received the frame I originally ordered, and I have emailed the dealer to ask them to reverse the freight charge they have put through to my credit card. I haven’t received any reply to either that email or the follow up one I sent. It seems pretty clear to me that they are not going to respond.

With hindsight, I should have bought the frame from Chain Reaction, and I would recommend that any Aussies who want to buy one do either that, or buy directly from Lynskey’s website.

On the positive side, I have no complaints about the frame itself - the welds are absolutely top shelf and I think this will build up into a nice bike. I still think these are a good value frame and a pretty good way to try titanium frames without having to spend a small fortune.

[rice rocket]

You can do partial chargebacks on credit cards, I'd recommend that as resolution if they are unwilling to budge on their position.

[DRZRM]

Yeah, I'd call the credit card company and demand a refund on return shipping. Seller error, seller responsibility. Let Amex (or Visa, etc) work out the details. You should only pay for the frame to be shipped once.

[phcollard]

Yeah, I'd call the credit card company and demand a refund on return shipping. Seller error, seller responsibility. Let Amex (or Visa, etc) work out the details. You should only pay for the frame to be shipped once.

Agreed. I would also send a note to Lynskey. They are pretty responsive.