You should have known I was doping?

[Elefantino]

Interesting new "defense" by the Armstrong legal team.

Lance Armstrong to challenge USPS about what it knew
(http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2013/02/25/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-defense/1947651/)

So despite his constant denials, the Postal Service should have known Armstrong was doping and terminated the contract but instead did nothing about it therefore isn't entitled to sue him?

Brilliant.

[cash05458]

his "only an idiot would think I rode clean and bought my BS" defense...?

[ultraman6970]

LOL :) but he said all the time he was clean, well we can't deny it, it is a better defense than the twin brother one :D

[FlashUNC]

Such a clown.

[William]

Hmmmm......Relentless vehement denials for close to a decade that he didn't dope and "never tested positive", peppered with the "I feel sorry you that you can't believe" speeches followed up with ruthless legal action against anyone who dared to point a finger at him sprinkled on top.....and they should have known he was a raging doper????

IMO, what an effin tool!:butt:




William

[shovelhd]

If that's all they've got, this is the beginning of the end.

[onekgguy]

If that's all they've got, this is the beginning of the end.

Actually, I think the beginning of the end was around the time that Floyd began talking.

Kevin g

[ultraman6970]

Sincerely? probably USPS knew all about it, the main problem I see is that many as usual will deny involvement or knowledge of the problems as been for many years. Will be fun to know what proves they have that usps knew it all, will be interesting.

[weiwentg]

Hmmmm......Relentless vehement denials for close to a decade that he didn't dope and "never tested positive", peppered with the "I feel sorry you that you can't believe" speeches followed up with ruthless legal action against anyone who dared to point a finger at him sprinkled on top.....and they should have known he was a raging doper????

IMO, what an effin tool!:butt:




William

they should put him in the dictionary under "chutzpah". the kid who killed his parents and asks the judge for mercy because he's an orphan? got nothing on Lance.

[Lewis Moon]

Wow. Cycling's answer to the "Twinkie defence".

He and his minions are backed into a corner, they see their collective futures circling the fudge streaked bowl and they're thrutching like beached carp to find any relief. A possible future as impoverished social lepers will do that.

[Tony T]

Forget about his using it a a defense, but do you think that the sponsor knew?

[William]

Forget about his using it a a defense, but do you think that the sponsor knew?

Do you think there is a difference between claiming that they "Knew" there was doping going on, or they "Knew, or should have known" doping was going on?

One would indicate that they were complicit (They knew it was happening). They other, "hey the sport is known for it, you should have known". But, I'm not a lawyer so I'll ask.






William

[flydhest]

This is more fun than it should be. I think they knew and certainly should have known. Curious as to whether that is a legal argument with legs (I am not a lawyer). Certainly doesn't pass the laugh test.

[Tony T]

Do you think there is a difference between claiming that they "Knew" there was doping going on, or they "Knew, or should have known" doping was going on?

I was wondering if anyone here thought that the sponsor knew in fact.

[William]

I was wondering if anyone here thought that the sponsor knew in fact.

That I can't answer. I do think it's possible, being an American organization that had never been involved with professional cycling at the World level before, that they didn't know how pervasive it was in the Sport.





William

[Tony T]

That I can't answer. I do think it's possible, being an American organization that had never been involved with professional cycling at the World level before, that they didn't know how pervasive it was in the Sport.
William

Same here. I have no idea how involved the sponsors get with the teams.

[goonster]

I was wondering if anyone here thought that the sponsor knew in fact.
Thomas Weisel may have known, but I do not think the USPS knew.

Also depends on what is meant by "knew". Will Lance claim that a USPS official had to push aside the EPO ampoules in his fridge in Nice to get to the orange juice?

Keep in mind that Lance won the SCA Promotions case, where the best evidence available at the time, such as it was, was presented in court. And he probably would have won the Sunday Times libel case in the UK, if the Times had not settled preemptively.

[Ray]

This is more fun than it should be. I think they knew and certainly should have known. Curious as to whether that is a legal argument with legs (I am not a lawyer). Certainly doesn't pass the laugh test.
Exactly. It seemed like many, if not most, of us on this forum knew from way back and felt that everyone else should have known too. So I can understand him THINKING this, but I find it kind of hilarious that he'd actually say (or write) it out loud in a legal brief. Common sense and law don't always mix!

-Ray

[PQJ]

I don't think Lance deserves to go to jail for what he's done, but I'm thinking it's the only way he will really disappear. Right now he's like a poorly trained chihuahua and the harmless nipping and yapping is getting tired and annoying.

[Elefantino]

I will say this for his latest tactic:

He's got ball.

:eek:

[MattTuck]

This is the same organization that saw the paradigm shift that email would effect on their business model and made the necessary strategic changes to stay relevant as an agent of commerce... oh wait.:help:

That I can't answer. I do think it's possible, being an American organization that had never been involved with professional cycling at the World level before, that they didn't know how pervasive it was in the Sport.

William

[laupsi]

Forget about his using it a a defense, but do you think that the sponsor knew?

until/unless he claims he informed his sponsor then I think the USPS will press on that they simply didn't know. most of us suspected, "knowing", it ain't the same thing.

[pbarry]

That I can't answer. I do think it's possible, being an American organization that had never been involved with professional cycling at the World level before, that they didn't know how pervasive it was in the Sport.
William
+1
Especially with USPS. A typical corporate sponsor might send one or two higher ups to a big stage race and maybe ride in the team car and hang with the riders. I can't imagine that happened with the USPS sponsorship. Maybe a few photo ops, but little hang time with LA.

[rides2slow]

For me Lance is yesterday's news and i want to move on with 1 exception.

I want to read about the settlement amounts. Guessing many of those will be out-of-court and not publicly released.

Can you imagine his legal fees? He and his situation must be the legal professions dream on both sides. The lawyers on both sides will do very well.

[jmoore]

Lance should have hired Floyd way back when to work for Disco. All this could have been avoided for a lot less than he's having to pay now.

[54ny77]

i blame lance for no saturday mail delivery. damned him!

[Vientomas]

i blame lance for no saturday mail delivery. damned him!

Maybe Lance can shoulder a few bags of mail, get on his bike, and deliver on Saturdays. Think of it as restitution.

[William]

i blame lance for no saturday mail delivery. damned him!

Ha!! There's your proof!! If USPS knew about peds, they would have the strength and stamina to deliver seven days a week!!!:p




;);)
William

[BumbleBeeDave]

Lance should have hired Floyd way back when to work for Disco. All this could have been avoided for a lot less than he's having to pay now.

. . . if he'd simply been just a bit nicer guy, and most of all if he had just been honest and not doped.

BBD

[laupsi]

. . . if he'd simply been just a bit nicer guy, and most of all if he had just been honest and not doped.

BBD

"if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, oh what a xmas we'd have" my friend's father favorite saying.

[veggieburger]

Can you imagine his legal fees? He and his situation must be the legal professions dream on both sides. The lawyers on both sides will do very well.

Maybe he'll ask Giro or Oakley to foot the bill.

:no:

[Elefantino]

. . . if he'd simply been just a bit nicer guy, and most of all if he had just been honest and not doped.

BBD
Finally, read "The Secret Race." I can honestly say that although I knew Lance was a Richard, and a huge Richard, I didn't realize how big a huge Richard.

Or maybe Tyler is just jealous and bitter.

[weiwentg]

That I can't answer. I do think it's possible, being an American organization that had never been involved with professional cycling at the World level before, that they didn't know how pervasive it was in the Sport.

William

Otoh, Stephanie McIlvain. I know, she was with Oakley. Nonetheless, the Andreus maintain she was in the room when Lance made his infamous statement to the physician. And yet she denied hearing the confession during the SCA deposition, and wasn't there some news that her superiors pressured her to keep quiet? The point being, there could well have been people at USPS who came into contact with information they'd need to alert their superiors that maybe this guy's not on the up and up. I don't know that there are. Maybe it'll come out at trial.

Of course, it would be quite the irony for Armstrong's lawyers to call on them as witnesses. I mean, the prosecution would probably rebut them with something like did you fear for your job if you were to bring this up to a superior?

[Rueda Tropical]

So let me get this straight.

Lance is saying all those who defended him. All the Livestrong members who stood with him. All those who kept repeating whatever PR spin his spinmeisters put out there until the bitter end.

They are all according to Lance a bunch of stupid idiots? It should have been obvious to them and to the USPS and to anyone paying attention that he was lying his a** off and was really doped to the gills.

LA never disappoints. There is never a bottom. He can always manage to find someplace lower to go.

[dd74]

Gawd, what a tool. Just sue him, throw him in prison, and move on. The guy is shaming sports in its entirety, no longer just pro cycling.

[CunegoFan]

My first response is to laugh. It is the Mike Tyson defense: "I'm a bad guy and you should have known it." On second thought I wonder what might be found during discovery. I can easily see e-mails being found that contain speculation about the team doping.

Armstrong will have to spend millions just defending himself, so he loses no matter what happens. It is now just a matter of how much.

[Elefantino]

Otoh, Stephanie McIlvain. I know, she was with Oakley. Nonetheless, the Andreus maintain she was in the room when Lance made his infamous statement to the physician. And yet she denied hearing the confession during the SCA deposition, and wasn't there some news that her superiors pressured her to keep quiet?
Yes. Her on a tape made by LeMond, where she admitted she lied.

[54ny77]

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/10000/Lance-Armstrong--10480.jpg

Maybe Lance can shoulder a few bags of mail, get on his bike, and deliver on Saturdays. Think of it as restitution.

[Vientomas]

Two words: "Unclean hands".

[zennmotion]

This is the same organization that saw the paradigm shift that email would effect on their business model and made the necessary strategic changes to stay relevant as an agent of commerce... oh wait.:help:

Not to hijack yet another Lance thread, it's actually Congress that has much of the blame for the decline of the USPS by actually preventing them through legislation from competing directly in a changing market place with the large private couriers for available revenue streams in the age of electronic communications and transactions. Corporate campaign money talks in the media echo chambers, and as usual the public is manipulated by sound bites. If you think the loss of postal service has no significant consequences you have never lived in a small rural town.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/p/postal_service/index.html

[cash05458]

Do you think there is a difference between claiming that they "Knew" there was doping going on, or they "Knew, or should have known" doping was going on?

One would indicate that they were complicit (They knew it was happening). They other, "hey the sport is known for it, you should have known". But, I'm not a lawyer so I'll ask.






William


I work for USPS...listen, they wouldn't have known a thing...maybe if they, ie those who made the decisions, knew anything about cycling as a sport...but they don't...upper level management at USPS doesn't even know what is going on with the MAIL...let alone what might be occurring in to what to them is some funny odd sport who has a cancer surviving american hero doing it...

if you want to talk about sponsors who should have known, look to bike related ones...like Trek ect...nike should have known as well...were any of them told? No way...but they should have known...but USPS, the folks who made the decisions there to sponsor a bike team are total dummies when it comes to stuff like this...

[Vientomas]

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/10000/Lance-Armstrong--10480.jpg

Now that's what I'm talkin' about. Nice!

[gemship]

Gawd, what a tool. Just sue him, throw him in prison, and move on. The guy is shaming sports in its entirety, no longer just pro cycling.

Yeah but in his defense... I know there isn't much and I always get misconstrued as a lance supporter and I have to say that I am not, what I am is cynical and snarky.

Anyways... Lance a tool yes, but the feds are a bunch of maggots, they should just either sue him or drop it at this point, he really is just a pawn, they want the info to keep up their existance and just keep suing everyone involved...oh this cleansing for the sake of justice and purity of sport, you're right no one really cares but wait... it's still news. The whiners of this forum, you know those that feel really personally betrayed will always chime in. I get a kick out of a select group of people, not you DD74 that always start a new thread regarding the subject of doping. Yeah it maybe bike related but it's kinda pathetic and undermines the value of the forum to a degree.

Well fellas, I chimed in you got my attention again, please refrain from a quoting contest...otherwise I may have to eff up the thread on my proverbial soapbox and get disgusted with this place all over again.

gotta feed the beast... ah dunna.....ah dunna....feed that beast oh feed that beast. ha,ha lol.

[dd74]

Yeah but in his defense... I know there isn't much and I always get misconstrued as a lance supporter and I have to say that I am not, what I am is cynical and snarky.

Anyways... Lance a tool yes, but the feds are a bunch of maggots, they should just either sue him or drop it at this point, he really is just a pawn, they want the info to keep up their existance and just keep suing everyone involved...oh this cleansing for the sake of justice and purity of sport, you're right no one really cares but wait... it's still news. The whiners of this forum, you know those that feel really personally betrayed will always chime in. I get a kick out of a select group of people, not you DD74 that always start a new thread regarding the subject of doping. Yeah it maybe bike related but it's kinda pathetic and undermines the value of the forum to a degree.

Well fellas, I chimed in you got my attention again, please refrain from a quoting contest...otherwise I may have to eff up the thread on my proverbial soapbox and get disgusted with this place all over again.

gotta feed the beast... ah dunna.....ah dunna....feed that beast oh feed that beast. ha,ha lol.
I agree with you. It's time we move on. We've all been duped. Let's just cut our losses. If we need heroes, there's always LeMond and Hampsten.

[Elefantino]

I agree with you. It's time we move on. We've all been duped. Let's just cut our losses. If we need heroes, there's always LeMond and Hampsten.
And Indurain (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/report-indurain-and-banesto-were-conconi-clients).

:eek:

[Lewis Moon]

Gawd, what a tool. Just sue him, throw him in prison, and move on. The guy is shaming sports in its entirety, no longer just pro cycling.

This is how I feel. I was trying to tell someone why I have such a visceral reaction to anything Lance, and this just about sums it up: I feel shame for my sport.
Thanks Lance. Eat 5#!+ and die.

[oldpotatoe]

This is how I feel. I was trying to tell someone why I have such a visceral reaction to anything ______, and this just about sums it up: I feel shame for my sport.
Thanks _____. Eat 5#!+ and die.

Put name of rider, team manager, sponsor, etc., here. They are all asshats, they all stuck cyclists in the eye. Just cuz they fessed up doesn't make them cycling saints, out to save the pro peloton and cycling in general.

So lance was a bully, so was ohh so many others. Many, many team managers, like Riis, who is still running a team.

Ya think Riis didn't get wealthy on the backs of his riders?

[darylb]

I'm not sure how but I am always surprised at the reaction to Lance or anyone else who has been caught, especially from well educated cyclists. Were you really duped? Seriously?

Sure, I guess I always hoped he and the others were clean but we all knew they weren't. Just like we all know the majority of the NFL is full of juice. I know, I know. They are all saying they dont do it so we should all be shocked when they finally get actual testing for HGH past the players union and our heros drop like flies? :rolleyes:

Everyone has the right to feel how they feel and if you are truly dissapointed that is up to you. But if you are shocked or surprised, you really weren't paying attention. Armstrong was beating the crap out of guys you knew were doping. Did you really think he was doing it clean?

As for the government or any other sponsor or industry entity suing these athletes, it is absolutely ridiculous. Everyone made a ton of money off this guy and now they are going to sue because they were fooled? Come on man.

I know some of you guys are cycling purists and I am a baseball purist. I was pretty dissapointed to learn how wide spread doping was in MLB but the more I know about it, the more I understand and the less I fault the athletes. Use the football example again. Those guys know going into college that they either use it or they dont play. All they have ever wanted to do was play in college and maybe the NFL. If they choose not to dope, it's over. Right now. Dont hate the player, hate the game.

Armstrong and Bonds didnt create this situation. It was created long before them. They just ended up being the best. They would have likely been the best if doping didnt exist at all too, but it does. It doesn't make it right but that is the culture in pro sports. There are a bunch of guys who choose not to dope. Who choose to be ethical. I'd give you a list but I cant because we dont know who they are. And that is the point. You want to play in the NFL, you dope. You want to win stage races, you dope.

[Lewis Moon]

Put name of rider, team manager, sponsor, etc., here. They are all asshats, they all stuck cyclists in the eye. Just cuz they fessed up doesn't make them cycling saints, out to save the pro peloton and cycling in general.

So lance was a bully, so was ohh so many others. Many, many team managers, like Riis, who is still running a team.

Ya think Riis didn't get wealthy on the backs of his riders?

It’s like any other pursuit where money, power and fame (along with evolutionary fitness!) can be gained through success. Be it politics, business or sports; if you can cheat, someone will.
Unfortunately for cycling, the anointed spokesmodel for the sport, the great man, the survivor, the fighter, the humanitarian, turned out to have feet of clay. More like feet of fetid monkey dung…which he kicked on everyone around him and on the sport in general.
…and Lance continues to kick. That’s a big reason for these threads.

If any or all of those other people had been caught, I figure it would just have been a page 19 ripple in world media. But it was Lance. It was as if Mother Theresa had been caught skimming cash out of the widows, orphans and lepers fund, and using it to buy cheap hookers and crack.

...and I got asked if I "have any good dope" when I was out on a ride a couple of weeks back. This is the legacy that Lance has left me personally.

Lance’s continued and complete lack of contrition and basic BLEEP you attitude (see: “come and take them” photo) is what makes him such an asshat now.

[RonW87]

For me, Lance doping, while important, isn't the reason he is despised. The reason he is despised is the way he bulldozed, intimidated and destroyed the livelihoods of the Andreus, Swartzs and Lemonds of the world.

[1/2 Wheeler]

...destroyed the livelihoods of the Andreus, Swartzs and Lemonds of the world.

Didn't Frankie have a great gig as a OLN TDF commentator post Lance conflict? Was he not being considered to run a team post Lance conflict? Is he jobless and homeless now?

No question that the Lance conflict played a role in Trek dumping Lemond. However, the Lemond bike line was not a significant part of the Trek brand. Doesn't Lemond still have one of the best selling spin bike brands.

If that is what happens when Lance destroys someone's livelihood, I hope I'm next.

[gemship]

I agree with you. It's time we move on. We've all been duped. Let's just cut our losses. If we need heroes, there's always LeMond and Hampsten.

Oh Awesome! So long as we are agreeable. :p I mean it's a touchy subject and I am quite capable of being a wise guy, there's a few here that really give me the itch to be and take it too far. but then I have to catch myself and say hey man who really cares? I could easily dominate this thread with filibuster antics:p

This is definitely a dead horse, it's only interesting to the microcosm of us cycling sport junkies. It's a soap opera. Most folks are truly unaware of Lance the person and the sport, they just know him for his achievements. So truly outside of this forum and similar others I would bet he is already quickly on the back page.

and a little offtopic but I do get real cynical about big govt'. I see the need for the feds to get involved but I don't like this use of taxpaying dollars it's just equally shameful with all the worlds problems and the sequestering of funding for agencies. I personally don't care for this and would be hard pressed to keep guys like Novitsky or whomever around during budget cuts and that's not defending Lance either. I just don't care for lawyers and long drawn out legal crap but I can see how there is accountability just question a lot of credibility and I don't think Floyd deserves one red cent of credit for starting this lawsuit.

[weiwentg]

A professional cyclist colludes with a powerful financier, a coach and a doctor to organize a doping ring. He dopes himself to the gills. He cajoles and bullies his teammates into joining him. He insults, defames, sues and destroys anyone who insinuates he has been doping. In fact, he perjures himself in a civil trial and he intimidates witnesses.

Later, after years of vehement denial, he is caught and stripped of his titles. The government sues to recover damages for the years they sponsored him. He throws himself on the mercy of the court, saying that the government knew or should have known about his fraud all along, and so they can not claim damages.

And that is the very definition of chutzpah.

[darylb]

And to me, the bullying thing is laughable. Maybe he is a terrible guy. I dont know because I have never met him or spent time around him so I'm not making that judgement. But I am just not buying the bullying thing. Pro sports is a difficult, often cruel business and it's not always fair. The industry itself bullies. Sponsors bully. Everything about being a pro athlete is about pressure from somewhere. These guys know exactly what the deal was from the beginning. They had the same choices everyone else in the sport had and they would have had those same choices no matter what team they were riding for. You want to ride with the best, dope. Dope.

[shovelhd]

Lance sure has a lot of rumpswabs.

It's not bullying. That's way too simplistic. He destroyed their careers. He had so much power and influence that he was able to prevent those who dared stand up to him from ever getting a decent pro tour ride again. Then he villified them in the media. Threatened them and their spouses.

You could call that bullying but it's much more than that.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Saw this somewhere recently. My apologies if it's been posted before.

Cheers,
KP

[Elefantino]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697856199&stc=1&d=1361992556
That is awesome.

[cash05458]

"Yeah it maybe bike related but it's kinda pathetic and undermines the value of the forum to a degree."

nice to see you admit that the ongoing Lance thing is "maybe bike related"...
But to call anyone who might be both concerned about their sport and have different idea than you via that as "whiners" is kinda silly...and then to claim the moral high ground by calling it pathetic and that it undermines the value of this bike forum kinda beggars belief...

[1/2 Wheeler]

Saw this on the way home today. What D-bag he must be.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8388/8514081747_e55fa98434_z.jpg

[pbarry]

That is awesome.
+1 :banana:

[pbarry]

Lance sure has a lot of rumpswabs.

It's not bullying. That's way too simplistic. He destroyed their careers. He had so much power and influence that he was able to prevent those who dared stand up to him from ever getting a decent pro tour ride again. Then he villified them in the media. Threatened them and their spouses.

You could call that bullying but it's much more than that.

Yup! Most succinct response, tho I'd +1 on most here. Everyone in his wake has less than they would have w/o his presence.

[gemship]

"Yeah it maybe bike related but it's kinda pathetic and undermines the value of the forum to a degree."

nice to see you admit that the ongoing Lance thing is "maybe bike related"...
But to call anyone who might be both concerned about their sport and have different idea than you via that as "whiners" is kinda silly...and then to claim the moral high ground by calling it pathetic and that it undermines the value of this bike forum kinda beggars belief...

Yes your whininig but yes the topic is cycling related and interesting like how my favorite movie didn't win a oscar. Do you know Lance the person, why take him so personal? I get that he is a jerk and people act offended that he went out of his way to ruin careers but taking it personal when you never met the guy or heck are not even in the same galaxy of cycling click....this is all just silly not to mention spinning words over and over. As if I was here to offend you with my view or it's everyones purpose including me to convince they are right. We don't have to agree on this. I want to make a effort to consider your view here but I think there comes a point where the same suspects just enjoy cheering each other on starting a doping thread just to rehash this drama and tell us all how doping in the sport is shameful and it's all Lance's fault.

and yes cycling and a forum that talks about cycling is so much more than this little pos drama within the pro sport of it. Lance is just a cog get over it.Fwiw I wish I had something interesting to add to this I don't and to just be agreeable to Lance being the jerk that deserves the chair a thousand times over and please let me be in the audience post allowing audience a turn to spit on him....I don't know I just cant get into all this focused bashing. I am just a average cyclist in awe of the very high end of custom bicycles as well as the fitness of pros in the sport who only market a very small niche of what is high end in terms of cycling stuff. For ex. you'll never see a Kirk win a Tour de France race, it's not the right tool for the job but you might see a retired pro ride one and admit it's a great bike despite building up five pounds heavier than his last year pro ride(and that doesn't happen often, I would look forward to reading one of those kind of reviews from a pro).

[Rueda Tropical]

Lance is just a cog get over it.

The guy had 7 yellow jerseys, totally dominated the image of cycling and even in the US where no one gives a crap about cycling he had name recognition on a par with the top athletes of the most popular sports.

Can't imagine why him turning out to be a complete fraud, running a massive doping operation and the sport turning out to be a sewer of doping and corruption would attract much attention on a cycling forum.

Bunch of whiners obsessing over trivia.

[cash05458]

"Lance is just a cog get over it"

maybe it might be time to get over the fact that not everyone buys the guy's BS and it is an ongoing story...and that folks have an opinion on it...it really is that simple...

no offence but I have heard the lance crowd sound off via so many tactics...500 tests and no positives, innocent...including an infinite amount of BS and spinning...and right up to the still lying confession and calls about witch hunting, that everyone did it and now they are picking on him ect...to a new sorta weirdness: even discussing lance is now pas se and lame...it lowers the value of a community forum ect ect ...I wouldn't be so sure of that moral high horse you pretend to ride on...but I do hope you can get that Kirk you want...

[gemship]

"Lance is just a cog get over it"

maybe it might be time to get over the fact that not everyone buys the guy's BS and it is an ongoing story...and that folks have an opinion on it...it really is that simple...

no offence but I have heard the lance crowd sound off via so many tactics...500 tests and no positives, innocent...including an infinite amount of BS and spinning...and right up to the still lying confession and calls about witch hunting, that everyone did it and now they are picking on him ect...to a new sorta weirdness: even discussing lance is now pas se and lame...it lowers the value of a community forum ect ect ...I wouldn't be so sure of that moral high horse you pretend to ride on...but I do hope you can get that Kirk you want...

Not sure what to say although I do feel misunderstood.

Reading your post and the one before I am reminded of the old saying, misery loves company.

[cash05458]

Not sure what to say although I do feel misunderstood.

Reading your post and the one before I am reminded of the old saying, misery loves company.

well, if I misunderstood you then apologies...

[1/2 Wheeler]

Not sure what to say although I do feel misunderstood.

Reading your post and the one before I am reminded of the old saying, misery loves company.

I think I feel you.

My "defense" of Lance has almost nothing to do with Lance. I just don't understand how people that are so far removed from the actual events can have such strong feeling towards him.

I just keep telling myself that I misunderstand their post as much as they misunderstand mine.

[veggieburger]

Can't imagine why him turning out to be a complete fraud, running a massive doping operation and the sport turning out to be a sewer of doping and corruption would attract much attention on a cycling forum.

Bunch of whiners obsessing over trivia.

Haha, nice! :banana:

[gemship]

No worries here, it just sucks all the way around. I know it hurts to be a fan for sure. Now I don't know anyones riding power/abilities. Speaking for myself I can top out at like maybe 32mph for 5 seconds in a sprint. I am very mortal I tell you and I am not a Lance fan but I do envy that gift to go fast on a bike.
At least I can watch a pro race now and make excuses about why these guys go faster up inclines than I can in a straight line. :p

[cash05458]

perhaps you guys can just start calling yourselves "the misunderstood"...:banana:

seriously, no offence, but you seem to have a problem with folks who don't feel the way you do about what should and shouldnt be discussed...and come up with all sorts of reasons why noone should be discussing armstrong in a thread on armstrong...think about that for a sec...and on a cycling forum...

[CunegoFan]

Armstrong should continue practicing his excuses. He just got hit with two more lawsuits, one by an insurance company that paid him bonuses from 1999-2001 and another by people who were tired of being tired but not tired enough not to sue when they found out FRS was promoted by a fraud.

[cash05458]

http://new.livestream.com/yalelaw/SpinningOurWheels

Interesting conference at Yale Law school yesterday with Landis, Tygart and Vaughters...

[gemship]

I think I feel you.

My "defense" of Lance has almost nothing to do with Lance. I just don't understand how people that are so far removed from the actual events can have such strong feeling towards him.

I just keep telling myself that I misunderstand their post as much as they misunderstand mine.

+1 :cool:That's exactly where I was coming from. So I stated a opinion, someone disagrees so I back it up. They disagree some more. At some point the quoting by nature of it becomes antagonistic and then there's the double standard. Surely dammed if you point that out. As if one can't express a opinion... I get to a point where I feel like I batted a hornets nest and it's time to flee. :p

-the misunderstoods-

[markie]

I think I feel you.

My "defense" of Lance has almost nothing to do with Lance. I just don't understand how people that are so far removed from the actual events can have such strong feeling towards him.

I just keep telling myself that I misunderstand their post as much as they misunderstand mine.

I have never been to Cambodia, but I do have a strong reaction to the thought of Pol Pot...

More seriously, I guess a lot of people followed Lance through his trials with cancer and then winning the tour was an all American fairytale dream come true. I know I cheered, really literally cheered, Lance on more than once. I never really thought he was clean, but the illusion was magical.

[slidey]

I'm going to have to reverse my stance on Lance...for a long time I shared the majority sentiment here, but I think I've seen the light now.

Lance is the answer to all our prayers...he might be the solution to most of our 21st century miseries...what am I talking about - in a word, biogas!

We've discovered a specimen who is a rich source of bull$h!†, folks. Scientists say (the same one's who were dop...er...treating Lance) that Lance has enough bull$h!† to sustain the earth's non-renewable energy needs for the next 40 years, which is ample enough time for us to invest and perfect other sources of clean energy.

All hail Lance!

[1/2 Wheeler]

I continue to be puzzled by the other end of the spectrum. I wouldn't characterize them as "haters." It's not hate, and I'm not describing any particular individual. But with a distinct portion it seems to be an undercurrent of Schadenfreude type pleasure-taking in those difficulties, and the almost palpable hope that he fails, and that he will somehow deserve it and it's some sort of just rewards for past sins. I just don't understand that.

[William]

I'm sticking the fork in this one. Feel free to start another thread if you wish.





William