View Full Version : Custom build - how group set is priced...
duffeymt
02-25-2013, 11:26 AM
I am starting to look into a custom build to move from carbon to steel. I am pricing out different options from different builders, and I was wondering how the groupset is priced.
For example, one quote I got listed the 6700 as $2100. Now, I know the group could be purchased for just around half that, so is this up charge all for the install labor? Is this typical? I do understand the custom build process and the price of the actual frame, but is this pricing standard for these types of builds?
FlashUNC
02-25-2013, 11:27 AM
Its not just labor or the group itself. If its a full bike, you're talking stem/bars/seatpost/wheels etc etc.
jmoore
02-25-2013, 11:34 AM
what Flash said. That price is likely the "all-in" price for everything.
AngryScientist
02-25-2013, 11:39 AM
you can not make any blanket assumptions when it comes to smaller custom builders. if it is not clearly spelled out in print what you get for your money, you should call the builder and just ask.
most of the smaller builders, and even the medium/larger companies are very approachable and should welcome questions about their services. calling a potential builder and speaking with them is a great way to start the conversation for a custom frame anyway IMO.
FlashUNC
02-25-2013, 11:51 AM
you can not make any blanket assumptions when it comes to smaller custom builders. if it is not clearly spelled out in print what you get for your money, you should call the builder and just ask.
most of the smaller builders, and even the medium/larger companies are very approachable and should welcome questions about their services. calling a potential builder and speaking with them is a great way to start the conversation for a custom frame anyway IMO.
+1. That's half the fun of this whole thing. Calling and talking to the guy or gal building your bike to get exactly what you want.
Fishbike
02-25-2013, 12:04 PM
Some builders have put together a build of parts -- e.g. a 105 build, an Ultegra build or a Dura Ace build, for ease of purchase and for value. Usually the better the groupset, the better the other parts -- cockpit, wheels etc.
And I would bet that any of the builders would be willing to swap parts or customize a build for you and price it accordingly.
Tony T
02-25-2013, 12:07 PM
Just get the frame, then buy the group and do the build yourself (Have the builder install the headset and bottom bracket so you don't have to buy a press that you'll only use once).
Not to save money, but for the enjoyment! :banana:
Hank Scorpio
02-25-2013, 12:27 PM
Are you sure that is the group price and not a build kit? A group is just that but the full kit includes everything from tires to saddle.
SoCalSteve
02-25-2013, 12:34 PM
Just get the frame, then buy the group and do the build yourself (Have the builder install the headset and bottom bracket so you don't have to buy a press that you'll only use once).
Not to save money, but for the enjoyment! :banana:
Bottom brackets are a self install these days...and yes, building a bike is a very gratifying experience...
Uncle Jam's Army
02-25-2013, 12:43 PM
I don't think you're ever going to get the best group price from a framebuilder, simply because the builder can't compete with some of the e-tailers' pricing (particularly those UK guys). The framebuilder, however, can probably do just as well, or even better, than your LBS on pricing the groupset.
But, many times, the framebuilder will build the bike up for you for free if you buy the build kit from him. So, factor that in to your equation, if it matters, as well as supporting an artisan to maintain his craft.
duffeymt
02-25-2013, 01:09 PM
The price was listed separately from the frame build.
It does include seatpost, stem, bars, tape, headset, pedal allowance, saddle allowance...maybe its right on actually.
Thanks all for the replies!
duffeymt
02-25-2013, 01:12 PM
I am without bike, not sure I can wait 3-4 months for a build! So many local builders have a wait list! I'd really like to go custom and local, but I need something soon than later.
decisions, decisions...
dave thompson
02-25-2013, 01:16 PM
I am without bike, not sure I can wait 3-4 months for a build! So many local builders have a wait list! I'd really like to go custom and local, but I need something soon than later.
decisions, decisions...
Only 3 to 4 months?!?!? Some builders have wait times of 4 to 5 years, or more, and others have so many orders that they have closed their order books.
Patience grasshopper.
duffeymt
02-25-2013, 01:20 PM
Wow, that's crazy! I have just started looking into custom, so this is all new to me. 3-4 months sounds pretty good I suppose!!
Len J
02-25-2013, 01:29 PM
Gotta be a build kit.
In order of $'s
Group w cables
Wheels & skewers
Saddle/stem/bars/seatpost
Tires & Tubes
Bar tape
Usually it's a BYOB on pedals
Len
Just get the frame/fork from the builder have him install the headset and chase the threads for the bottom bracket. building a bike is enjoyable. also make sure the seat tube is sized/reamed for the seat post you plan to use. 27.2 mm dia. doesn't mean it will fit all 27.2 seat posts for example. If you have a post in mind pass that on to the builder.
dave thompson
02-25-2013, 01:42 PM
Wow, that's crazy! I have just started looking into custom, so this is all new to me. 3-4 months sounds pretty good I suppose!!
Yeah, when you're used to going into a bike shop and buying something off the floor, a wait for a custom build can seem terribly long. Consider that it takes most of a week, if not more, to actually design and construct the frameset. Then it gets shipped to a painter, who also has a waiting line, painted and shipped back to the builder for final details and installation of the build kit. Then shipped to you. So figure maybe 3 weeks in human hands for just the frame and paint, maybe a week and a half to two, (depending on location) en route to/from paint and to you via FedEX/UPS. Then there are how many others, in front of you, that are having this builder make them something? 3~4 months is not really that long in the greater scheme of things. With the more popular builders 6~18 months is the norm.
don compton
02-25-2013, 02:17 PM
I don't think you're ever going to get the best group price from a framebuilder, simply because the builder can't compete with some of the e-tailers' pricing (particularly those UK guys). The framebuilder, however, can probably do just as well, or even better, than your LBS on pricing the groupset.
But, many times, the framebuilder will build the bike up for you for free if you buy the build kit from him. So, factor that in to your equation, if it matters, as well as supporting an artisan to maintain his craft.
Aren't framebuilders considered "original equipment manufacturers" and if so, wouldn't they be offered "OEM" prices from Shimano,etc?
Uncle Jam's Army
02-25-2013, 02:30 PM
Aren't framebuilders considered "original equipment manufacturers" and if so, wouldn't they be offered "OEM" prices from Shimano,etc?
Don, all I can say (type) is that the group prices I've seen from builders is higher than the UK e-tailers; not even close. Having said that, you gave me a killer deal on a DA 7900 group a few years ago when you moved your shop that trounced even those UK e-tailers. And I thank you for that.
pdmtong
02-25-2013, 03:31 PM
if the price for the full build kit is within a few hundred dollars to what you could cobble the pieces together on your own and then have it built locally I would just have the builder put it together. you arent going custom to shave off every last dollar, and it is really nice to open the box up, install the fork, tighten the stem/bar, install pedals and go for a ride.
that said, be very specific about how you want the levers placed, the bars angled, saddle height and setback, the fork cut etc.
Tony T
02-25-2013, 03:41 PM
Bottom brackets are a self install these days...and yes, building a bike is a very gratifying experience...
I was thinking PF30 (press needed)
559Rando
02-25-2013, 04:46 PM
I am without bike, not sure I can wait 3-4 months for a build! So many local builders have a wait list! I'd really like to go custom and local, but I need something soon than later.
decisions, decisions...
You're fortuante to have a choice of local builders and reasonable wait times.
I'd suggest you buy an OK used bike to ride in the interim. What that means to you might vary. You could buy a cheap $200 UJB or a beautiful $2k fancy Ti number.
Then once you have your custom, you can keep or sell (probably recouping all or most of your purchase price) the bike you buy now.
scrubadub
02-25-2013, 05:20 PM
No framebuilder is making lots of money, help them out and let them get a bit of a margin on the build kit. If you think about what you're getting for the amount of work that goes into a custom frame (customer service, fit, design, framebuilding experience, etc.) it's a bargain.
Plus if they build the bike up and come across any issues, they can take care of it better than anyone else.
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