Armstrong Won’t Meet With Antidoping Agency

[Tony T]

Armstrong Won’t Meet With Antidoping Agency (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/21/sports/cycling/lance-armstrong-again-refuses-to-meet-with-usada.html?hpw)

Lance Armstrong has refused, once again, to meet with the United States Anti-Doping Agency and give testimony under oath about the doping practices that fueled most of his career as a cyclist.

After extending a previous deadline by two weeks, the antidoping agency had set Wednesday as a deadline for Armstrong to notify the agency that he would like to provide it full disclosure about his doping. But Tim Herman, one of Armstrong’s lawyers, said in a statement Wednesday that Armstrong would cooperate only with “an international tribunal formed to comprehensively address pro cycling, an almost exclusively European sport.”

[dd74]

What a weasel Armstrong is. I rarely liked the man, and now think he's just downright dismissible as a human of any noteworthiness. Truly, I hope he gets everything that's coming to him, including federal indictments.

[cmg]

he doesn't want to just finger point other american cyclists. "Armstrong's latest decision means he won't risk the legal exposure a sworn interview with USADA might create for those cases or new ones yet to come."

[christian]

What a weasel Armstrong is.
"Weaseling, it's what separates us from the animals. Except the weasel."
- Homer Simpson

[William]

"Weaseling, it's what separates us from the animals. Except the weasel."
- Homer Simpson

Always choose the lesser of.....

http://cdn.clashdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/545px-Blason_de_la_ville_de_Bisel_68_svg.png





;)
William

[Tony T]

Homer Simpson

Didn't LA do a Simpson's?

[Jaq]

It is time we here had a serious discussion about Pun Control.

[pbarry]

Time for Al to chime in. Warning, adult language:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW7WlT6OJxE

[Louis]

It is time we here had a serious discussion about Pun Control.

Well, 'pun my word - it's about time.

[54ny77]

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p200/griselpalacios/gifs/tumblr_lnm55cd1PC1qa48wxo1_500.gif

[zennmotion]

he doesn't want to just finger point other american cyclists. "Armstrong's latest decision means he won't risk the legal exposure a sworn interview with USADA might create for those cases or new ones yet to come."

Yeah, sure, he's suddenly taking the high road out of loyalty to a bunch of people who have long since severed ties to him. The man's ethics compass has never really been set straight, and based on his interviews I think he has only a vague recognition of this- he needs to be "taught" guilt and contrition. Sociopath (http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html) It seems the only advisers around him (that he listens to anyway) are paid to protect his ass(ets). What he needs is a real, trusted friend who is outside the fray with no vested interest except LA's longterm happiness and how to push the reset button and help map out the rest of his life. He could still fix this IMO.

[Pete Mckeon]

He still won 7 TDF and they checked him numerous times for "banned" drugs. The French would have loved to find an "Illegal" substance and they nor the US GVT have. He has been stripped of everything.

WHy not let it rest. He fought and won from serious cancer and then won more TDF than anyone.

IT has gotten to be a witch hunt and I hope it goes into the closet.

ANybody else the TDF could be awarded to can not or were not tested for drugs that were banned.

Look at South Africa recent elite runner that they found drugs and needles.

Per his lawyer "IT is herbal enhancements and not drugs",

LAnce is getting and taking good advice. "STAY AWAY from the witch hunt!"n Why not use resources to go against the financial or real ILLEGAL actions:confused::mad: HE has admitted to taking "enhancement" what else is there

[zennmotion]

He has been stripped of everything.

LAnce is getting and taking good LEGAL advice. " HE has admitted to taking "enhancement" what else is there

Note the modification on legal advice- He has not been stripped of "everything"- he still still sits with millions gained by a giant box of lies, and he has not even come completely clean, nor made amends to the many he caused professional, personal and financial damage. He continues his belligerence to USADA, federal investigators, and now even the UCI, and limited his "confession" to the self-serving bare minimum in the softest possible interview. His desire to "help clean up the sport" rings very hollow. It's not over, nor should it be. It's not about punishment, it's about doing what he can to fix it, and he's done very very little in that regard. IMO and all that.

PS the "resources" for USADA and the feds to go after him will be recouped if they are successful, and those agencies will make a calculated financial decision as to whether they think the risk of not prevailing is worth it. As is the case for other investigations- there is a calculus to weigh the anticipated public good against the expected costs. It's not like the agencies can just divert their funding sources to "real illegal" actions, it's a simplistic view of agency budget frameworks. It only works as a soundbite. Like "witchhunt"- sounds good, doesn't hold up to analysis very well.

[norcalbiker]

WHy not let it rest. He fought and won from serious cancer and then won more TDF than anyone.


I don't know the answer but I'm with you. Let it rest. He did admit, maybe not a full blown admission.

I no longer respect him as a cyclist and an athlete, but I still admire him for creating Livestrong.

[Peter P.]

[QUOTE=norcalbiker;1298273...but I still admire him for creating Livestrong.[/QUOTE]

I don't believe for a second that Lance created the concept of Livestrong. It was created by his handlers and marketers for image enhancement. It was never his passion.

[shovelhd]

The answer is obvious. Lance is able to manipulate the UCI and the CAS. He tried to manipulate USADA and failed. The guy is bound and determined to go down swinging but he will go down hard.

[PQJ]

WHy not let it rest.


I too wish it could be laid to rest and we never hear from Lance again. Problem is, Lance is the one who won't let it rest. USADA gave him an opportunity to cooperate; he declined. USADA handed down its decision, stripped him of his titles, and banned him for life. He tweeted a picture of his 7 yellow jerseys. He could have left it at that. But then he decided to go all Oprah on us. And now this. "We" aren't the problem; Lance is.

Said Tim Herman: “In the meantime, for several reasons, Lance will not participate in Usada’s efforts to selectively conduct American prosecutions that only demonize selected individuals while failing to address the 95 percent of the sport over which Usada has no jurisdiction.”

So USADA is being villified (again) for failing to deal with athletes over whom it has no jurisdiction? A great man once said: "Dat $hit don't make no sense."

Please, Lance, just go away.

[Rueda Tropical]

He still won 7 TDF and they checked him numerous times for "banned" drugs. The French would have loved to find an "Illegal" substance and they nor the US GVT have. He has been stripped of everything.

He tested positive his first Tour win. Got a after the fact prescription OK'd by the UCI. So he tested positive his first Tour win.

His stored urine samples lit up like a christmas tree for EPO when they were retested when a test became available. His blood profile was tagged as suspicious at the Tour of Switzerland.

But none of that matters because, in case you were not paying attention, Lance himself admitted to taking performance enhancing drugs on national TV.

But I guess none of that counts as "proof" - its just a witch hunt against poor Lance. It's gotten so bad even Lance is telling lies about Lance taking dope.

And one more thing, he did not win any TdF's. Neither did Landis.

[Louis]

This whole Armstrong doping thing is starting to look like the negotiations with Iran over their nuclear program, where they deny, dissemble, and delay, until confronted with irrefutable evidence. They acknowledge that, but deny everything else, and we then have another round of useless negotiations.

[slidey]

Man, I really like your analogy! :beer:

(Not to say anything about Iran, or the US)

This whole Armstrong doping thing is starting to look like the negotiations with Iran over their nuclear program, where they deny, dissemble, and delay, until confronted with irrefutable evidence. They acknowledge that, but deny everything else, and we then have another round of useless negotiations.

[Grant McLean]

This whole Armstrong doping thing is starting to look like the negotiations with Iran over their nuclear program, where they deny, dissemble, and delay, until confronted with irrefutable evidence. They acknowledge that, but deny everything else, and we then have another round of useless negotiations.

Or like a bank robbery where they get caught, and still get to keep the money.

-g

[dd74]

An example needs to be made of him, particularly after a career of lying and cheating. If these big-winded groups like USADA, et al and the Federal Government doesn't put LA away, and I mean in prison, then more of this crap will occur. People will know they can get away with actions similar to LA's.

[slidey]

Yeah, I'm with you too...but, for now I think LA has single-handedly portrayed himself as a fool. I wonder though how Oprah must be feeling, unless she knew that LA was yanking stuff right out of his derriere.

An example needs to be made of him...

[russ46]

I would like to think we've heard the last of Lance. Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case. It's obvious he still considers himself the reincarnation of some Greek God of Mythology who is above reproach. I would put him in the minor god category at best but I'm sure if he found out I would be the target of an extensive character assassination campaign.

[CunegoFan]

I think Armstrong's ability to stage a comeback ended with the Oprah interview. He should have sat on a beach in Hawaii for two or three years but his need to be in the public eye would not allow him to lay low.

[cash05458]

I know folks mean well...but hearing someone mimic his lawyer and talk about a "witch hunt" makes me sick...it is being a a friggen tool of this guy or at least a dummy mouth of his pr legal message if you think that...or just not too bright...I don't know...but calling it a witch hunt to actually hold a guy accountable who ripped millions...a few hundred million actually on a lie...and screwed other riders as well...come on...yeah, I know he helped sell high end bikes...whatever...but be serious...he ripped folks off ala madoff via sport...the only time this witch hunt stops is when he goes to jail..."witch hunt" ?....his lawyer put out via his defence to the media and started that meme/bs...
what a joke...guys get thrown in jail for 8 years in new york for having a a gram of snort in their pocket...and people defend this guy via our sport and go along with the witch hunt bs? christ...


a witch hunt is when someone is pulled,strapped to a stake and set on fire...and unjustly via old cases...friggin Lance and his two hundred million screwing our sport as a real sport is hardly a witch hunt...glad folks can appreciate lance selling alot of bikes...get ****ing over it would you...it is hard to imagine why someone would be so lame as to come on here and say that...you wont sell anymore bikes...you can be appreciative ala a drug dealer ect...but come on...the guy is dirt...and it is endless reasoning the syncophants come up with...people should be responsible for what they do...period...it happens everyday...in good ways and bad ways...but to get out here and call folks wanting armstrong to have some consequences a "witch hunt" beggars belief...

[Pete Mckeon]

I never said I liked the guy. and I apologize for adding discontent.


PETE:fight:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that Lance is simply mentally ill. Even aside from all that has happened, he IS a great athlete, and he did show exceptional ability.

But even realizing that he's sick, it's still almost impossible for me to forgive the bullying, the lying, the cheating, the vilifying, and the very conscious and planned efforts to ruin the lives of anyone who spoke the truth against him. Speaking as someone was was bullied mercilessly in school when I moved from Little Rock to Chicago at the age of 6 (the new kid with the funny accent) that is the one button I have never been able to turn off in the ensuing 40 years no matter how hard I try. Mentally ill or not, the guy is filth.

I could actually forgive the PED use in the presence of a serious effort to help reform the sport by truly sharing all he knows--and by this time we can be absolutely sure he knows a lot. But he has proven now that he really has no interest in doing that.

So it's just impossible for me to let it rest. Lance, please go away. I feel bad for your family, for your kids, for your friends who are still loyal. But at this point with what you've proved about yourself--and your demonstrated lack of willingness to change--I can't get over the feeling that your kids would grow up better totally without you than with you as you are now.

Take a long walk--perhaps off a short pier. Or not. But just take a long walk and go away.

BBD

[bostondrunk]

I won't use the term witch hunt....
But even though I think he deserves whatever ban anyone else would get for doping, and I think on a personal level, he is most likely a prick.....I still don't think he deserves to be punished more than others.
They ALL doped. Even the guys that forum members here would have defended to the death (Mike Barry anyone??). Lance happened to be the best at it.
Folks that he railroaded personally......they should take him to court and get whatever is due to them. The sport should ban him for whatever length they would ban someone else for doping.
But the fact that the sport is in the doping toilet, that is not lances fault. Rather than re-hash everything, just go read JV's latest article if you haven't already.
The whole sport (like MOST pro sports) is corrupt. It's not because of Lance. Didn't start with him, not gonna ed with him.

[CunegoFan]

I won't use the term witch hunt....
But even though I think he deserves whatever ban anyone else would get for doping, and I think on a personal level, he is most likely a prick.....I still don't think he deserves to be punished more than others.
They ALL doped. Even the guys that forum members here would have defended to the death (Mike Barry anyone??). Lance happened to be the best at it.
Folks that he railroaded personally......they should take him to court and get whatever is due to them. The sport should ban him for whatever length they would ban someone else for doping.
But the fact that the sport is in the doping toilet, that is not lances fault. Rather than re-hash everything, just go read JV's latest article if you haven't already.
The whole sport (like MOST pro sports) is corrupt. It's not because of Lance. Didn't start with him, not gonna ed with him.

Armstrong did not get a lifetime ban for doping. He got a lifetime ban for drug trafficking, pressuring other riders to dope, running a team with a teamwide doping program, facilitating other people's doping, bullying people who had broken omerta, engaging in a conspiracy to hide a positive test, etc. Armstrong did much much more than the others. He deserves much much more punishment.

[Tony T]

He deserves much much more punishment.

Exile him to France!

[oldpotatoe]

Armstrong did not get a lifetime ban for doping. He got a lifetime ban for drug trafficking, pressuring other riders to dope, running a team with a teamwide doping program, facilitating other people's doping, bullying people who had broken omerta, engaging in a conspiracy to hide a positive test, etc. Armstrong did much much more than the others. He deserves much much more punishment.

Hmmm, put any of a number of other's names in there..Let's start with Riis, and a whole slew of others, both riders and team managers, directors, sponsors...blah, blah, blah. He didn't do much more than the 'others', he just went on TV and finished first in the biggest race 7 times in a row.

Not gonna send him to prison for being a bully and prick, any more than the others.

During the 'doping era', the 2000s, the racers didn't do all this stuff alone, by themselves.

[54ny77]

i'm waiting for lance to bust out the nude photos of hein & co. with russian hookers at baur au lac doing coke out of silca frame pumps (w/campy pump head, of course).

[weiwentg]

I
Folks that he railroaded personally......they should take him to court and get whatever is due to them. The sport should ban him for whatever length they would ban someone else for doping.
But the fact that the sport is in the doping toilet, that is not lances fault. Rather than re-hash everything, just go read JV's latest article if you haven't already.
The whole sport (like MOST pro sports) is corrupt. It's not because of Lance. Didn't start with him, not gonna ed with him.

Without USADA or the Feds' involvement, Lance would simply have stonewalled, like he did in the SCA case. You generally need a government or a quasi-government entity's legal firepower, time and determination to crack something this big open. Christoph Bassons would never be able to prove that Lance doped on his own. The Feds dragged Hincapie, Leipheimer and a bunch of other folks before a grand jury.

Second, not sure what statute someone like Christoph Bassons would have filed under. It's a he-said, he-said: Bassons said Lance intimidated him out, Lance says he encouraged Bassons to leave for the sake of the sport. Seems like it would be hard for Bassons or someone else to litigate successfully.

It didn't start with Lance and it won't end with him, but he did make his bed.

PS, the Feds reversed and they are joining Landis' qui tam suit.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/us-government-joins-whistleblower-suit-against-armstrong

[cash05458]

I never said I liked the guy. and I apologize for adding discontent.


PETE:fight:

Pete...no offence meant either...and hope I did not offend you...just riles me to hear some folks repeating his lawyer's latest bullet points via this being a "witch hunt"...a witch hunt is when you are looking for new victims aka hysteria and Salem ect...rather, to me, a better and more apt analogy would be "moby dick"...and I just don't see why the guy should not pay for his actions and decisions...it happens everyday here in America over far more trivial, less harmless matters and this guy has scammed not only a couple hundred million bucks but also hurt countless folks in their own abilities to make a decent living...I mean, this is the guy who had someone contact Tygart and threaten to put a bullet in his head...let's be serious as to who this fellow is...Yeah, alot of guys doped...but somehow I don't think Ullrich did his best to destroy lives of anyone who might have gotten in his way or didn't play the game...to ask for accountablity is hardly be a witch hunt...

[BobbyJones]

I may have said it here before, but people (Americans in particular) have short memory spans.

He's pulling a Clinton. In 5 years we'll all be saying great things about him.

[djg21]

I may have said it here before, but people (Americans in particular) have short memory spans.

He's pulling a Clinton. In 5 years we'll all be saying great things about him.

I still think he will (attempt to) rehabilitate himself and run for Governor of Texas. No offense to residents of that State who participate here, but Texas has a history of electing Governors who, to be kind, have significant baggage.

[54ny77]

Wow.

"A compilation of the 41-year-old American cyclist’s earnings by Bloomberg News, using public documents, interviews, court testimony and marketers’ comments, shows part of Armstrong’s business ventures and profit centers. A record seven-time Tour de France winner from 1999 to 2005 before being stripped of the titles by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency in August, Armstrong made more than $218 million in a career he later told Oprah Winfrey was “one big lie.” He said he used testosterone, erythropoietin and blood transfusions. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-20/armstrong-s-cheating-won-record-riches-of-more-than-218-million.html