OT: Many PGA Tour Pros Say Drug Testing Is Limited

[Tony T]

Many PGA Tour Pros Say Drug Testing Is Limited (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/sports/golf/dozens-of-pga-pros-say-drug-testing-is-limited.html?ref=sports)

The player most likely to be subjected to rigorous testing under the PGA Tour’s antidoping program would figure to be Tiger Woods, a 14-time major champion and one of the brightest stars in the sporting firmament. But Woods said Tuesday that he had never been tested away from a tournament site.

The PGA Tour does not require players to give their whereabouts, which would make it difficult for testers to collect samples outside of competition sites, because some tour members maintain multiple residences on different continents.

In 2016, golf will be contested at the Olympics, at which time the players designated as possible participants in the Rio de Janeiro Games will be subject to out-of-competition testing at their homes and training facilities. Testing could include the collection of blood, which is not part of the PGA Tour’s program. There are substances, including IGF-1 and human growth hormone, that can be detected only through blood tests.

The results of the tests administered by Usada are posted on its Web site. It is what the athletes demanded, said Travis Tygart, the chief executive of the agency. The privacy issues that prohibit the PGA Tour from disclosing more information about testing will not be an issue starting in 2016.

“That won’t happen when the players come under the Olympic jurisdiction because it’s contrary to the principles of independence and transparency,” Tygart said in a telephone interview. “Our athletes demand that we publish specifically who has been tested and how often so they have confidence that there’s truly a level playing field.”

The PGA Tour, not known for transparency, does not make public conduct-related suspensions or fines. Singh’s admission last month to Sports Illustrated that he used deer antler spray and was “looking forward to some changes in my body” landed the tour in an unexpected quandary.

[dd74]

Yep, same with pro tennis. The players say they're rarely tested. Funny, I don't hear much about doping in pro basketball.

The sport that's really cracked down on PEDs is NASCAR. They don't mess around if they find a driver's juicing; immediate suspension, no questions asked.

I'm not sure about F1 though or any other motorsport.

[don compton]

Many PGA Tour Pros Say Drug Testing Is Limited (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/0/20/sports/golf/dozens-of-pga-pros-say-drug-testing-is-limited.html?ref=sports)

The player most likely to be subjected to rigorous testing under the PGA Tour’s antidoping program would figure to be Tiger Woods, a 14-time major champion and one of the brightest stars in the sporting firmament. But Woods said Tuesday that he had never been tested away from a tournament site.

The PGA Tour does not require players to give their whereabouts, which would make it difficult for testers to collect samples outside of competition sites, because some tour members maintain multiple residences on different continents.

In 2016, golf will be contested at the Olympics, at which time the players designated as possible participants in the Rio de Janeiro Games will be subject to out-of-competition testing at their homes and training facilities. Testing could include the collection of blood, which is not part of the PGA Tour’s program. There are substances, including IGF-1 and human growth hormone, that can be detected only through blood tests.

The results of the tests administered by Usada are posted on its Web site. It is what the athletes demanded, said Travis Tygart, the chief executive of the agency. The privacy issues that prohibit the PGA Tour from disclosing more information about testing will not be an issue starting in 2016.

“That won’t happen when the players come under the Olympic jurisdiction because it’s contrary to the principles of independence and transparency,” Tygart said in a telephone interview. “Our athletes demand that we publish specifically who has been tested and how often so they have confidence that there’s truly a level playing field.”

The PGA Tour, not known for transparency, does not make public conduct-related suspensions or fines. Singh’s admission last month to Sports Illustrated that he used deer antler spray and was “looking forward to some changes in my body” landed the tour in an unexpected quandary.
I played competitive golf and while steriods or whatever could help, its not even close to blood doping or Epo in cycling. As a matter of fact, if someone blew out their shoulder, back, or knee, I think that they should have whatever is available legally to help them to recover. You can give any normal level person all the drugs they want, but they still can't chip, putt, and have distance touch like a true touring pro. Sorry for all you cycling fans, but you're not even close. Road cycling is mostly, an endurance sport, requiring marginal eye-hands skills.
While golf in itself requires very little fitness to play, at the pro level reasonable fitness is an important asset. It just doesn't require the ridiculous levels of high heart rate demands of cycling. Tired legs lead to very poor shots. In golf and baseball, "you can't draw blood from a turnip".

[1/2 Wheeler]

I played competitive golf and while steriods or whatever could help, its not even close to blood doping or Epo in cycling. As a matter of fact, if someone blew out their shoulder, back, or knee, I think that they should have whatever is available legally to help them to recover. You can give any normal level person all the drugs they want, but they still can't chip, putt, and have distance touch like a true touring pro. Sorry for all you cycling fans, but you're not even close. Road cycling is mostly, an endurance sport, requiring marginal eye-hands skills.
While golf in itself requires very little fitness to play, at the pro level reasonable fitness is an important asset. It just doesn't require the ridiculous levels of high heart rate demands of cycling. Tired legs lead to very poor shots. In golf and baseball, "you can't draw blood from a turnip".

I agree. Cheating just a little bit is ok.

[saab2000]

I agree. Cheating just a little bit is ok.

It's not cheating if it's not illegal. Frankly, I wouldn't really have a problem if an injured golfer (or any other injured athlete) used prescribed substances like HGH to recover from that injury. I suppose it becomes a slippery slope though.

I'm not a golfer but I've seen enough golf and enough pro cycling to know that they're not really the same. Golf seems to be a skill game that requires finesse and precision. Cycling is an aerobic sport that has a completely different set of requirements.

Lindsey Vonn just suffered a severe injury. Is it cheating if she is prescribed and uses something like HGH to help her recovery? I don't think so but I don't know the rules of that sport either. But personally I wouldn't have a problem with it if it's allowed and she recovers more quickly and more completely. Same with Adrian Peterson.

[oldpotatoe]

I played competitive golf and while steriods or whatever could help, its not even close to blood doping or Epo in cycling. As a matter of fact, if someone blew out their shoulder, back, or knee, I think that they should have whatever is available legally to help them to recover. You can give any normal level person all the drugs they want, but they still can't chip, putt, and have distance touch like a true touring pro. Sorry for all you cycling fans, but you're not even close. Road cycling is mostly, an endurance sport, requiring marginal eye-hands skills.
While golf in itself requires very little fitness to play, at the pro level reasonable fitness is an important asset. It just doesn't require the ridiculous levels of high heart rate demands of cycling. Tired legs lead to very poor shots. In golf and baseball, "you can't draw blood from a turnip".

when he was thin.

[Tony T]

I played competitive golf and while steriods or whatever could help, its not even close to blood doping or Epo in cycling.


Yeah, same with baseball. I don't know if steroids are going to help you in baseball. I just don't believe it. I don't believe steroids can help eye-hand coordination to technically hit a baseball. :rolleyes:

[christian]

I'm not sure about F1 though or any other motorsport.The FIA is a WADA signatory, so same rules apply there as in Olympic sports. That said, race car drivers mostly seem to get popped for coke.

[saab2000]

Yeah, same with baseball. I don't know if steroids are going to help you in baseball. I just don't believe it. I don't believe steroids can help eye-hand coordination to technically hit a baseball. :rolleyes:

Ask Mark Mcguire if they help.... Or Barry Bonds. Doesn't help with the hand/eye but apparently it helps you hit the ball an extra few feet which is the difference between a ball hit to deep into the outfield and one hit into the stands. And Roger Clemens is alleged to have used HGH, probably to recover from throwing those heaters for 20 years, which can't be good for the elbow or shoulder.

Unless you're being facetious.... :beer:

[Tony T]

Unless you're being facetious.... :beer:

I was. That was a quote (http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/bse-memorable-quotes-steroid-related.html) from Barry Bonds.

Point being that ped's help in golf also.

[saab2000]

I was (note the :rolleyes:) That was a quote (http://www.baseballssteroidera.com/bse-memorable-quotes-steroid-related.html) from Barry Bonds.

Indeed!

We're subject to random drug testing in my work, but I have no idea what they're testing for. But it's mostly 'recreational' drugs from what I've been told. I've been tested a couple times.

Tangent alert....

I've been told that one of the biggest obstacles to hiring in my industry (aviation) for certain positions is the ability to pass Day 1 drug screening. Every single employee is screened on day 1 of employment. Some are screened at the interview.

My company has been hiring workers of one sort or another every day since I can remember. I started at my current company 9 years ago. It's hard to feel too sorry for people who claim they can't find jobs when companies like mine have been hiring and can't find workers who are able to pass drug screening.

Pilots (my work) generally don't have this obstacle. There are issues to employment as a professional pilot but recreational drug use is very, very rare among pilots. Except beer, but that's a whole 'nuther ball of wax. That said, I am aware of two cases in my own company where employment stopped immediately when there was an issue. So it's not unprecedented. Amazing what we put into our bodies as a society for whatever reason.

[PQJ]

PEDs may help one hit the ball further. They will also likely help with general recovery and/or recovery from an injury. They won't help you play better golf (ie, score better). There's an old adage that is apropos: you drive for show and putt for dough.

FWIW, I believe Tiger (among others), has used.

[malcolm]

I played competitive golf and while steriods or whatever could help, its not even close to blood doping or Epo in cycling. As a matter of fact, if someone blew out their shoulder, back, or knee, I think that they should have whatever is available legally to help them to recover. You can give any normal level person all the drugs they want, but they still can't chip, putt, and have distance touch like a true touring pro. Sorry for all you cycling fans, but you're not even close. Road cycling is mostly, an endurance sport, requiring marginal eye-hands skills.
While golf in itself requires very little fitness to play, at the pro level reasonable fitness is an important asset. It just doesn't require the ridiculous levels of high heart rate demands of cycling. Tired legs lead to very poor shots. In golf and baseball, "you can't draw blood from a turnip".


The same holds true in cycling. You can pour drugs into the average recreational cyclist and they could never be competitive at a pro level.

No drug available today turns a couch potato into a pro. Even drugged it requires the right genetics and an enormous volume of work.

Don't kid yourself even sports that are primarily hand-eye sports can benefit from steroids. If the hand eye coordination is in place increase strength by 25% or more and see what happens to a batted baseball or a fairway drive or even bowling pins. Maybe chess and poker but beyond that there is a place for steroids to improve performance. Granted the more strength related the bigger the gains.

[PQJ]

The same holds true in cycling. You can pour drugs into the average recreational cyclist and they could never be competitive at a pro level.

No drug available today turns a couch potato into a pro. Even drugged it requires the right genetics and an enormous volume of work.

Don't kid yourself even sports that are primarily hand-eye sports can benefit from steroids. If the hand eye coordination is in place increase strength by 25% or more and see what happens to a batted baseball or a fairway drive or even bowling pins. Maybe chess and poker but beyond that there is a place for steroids to improve performance. Granted the more strength related the bigger the gains.

Difference between golf and baseball, though, is that in baseball there is a direct correlation between hitting the ball further and scoring, or throwing the ball harder and faster and making it harder to hit. There is no such correlation in golf between strength and scoring. If you take a look at winners of golf tournaments (regular ones and majors), they run the gamut from short to tall, thin to fat, weak to strong (relatively speaking), etc. The top 5 longest hitters on tour this year are as follows: Ryan Palmer, Nicolas Colsaerts, Steven Bowditch, Sean O'Hair, and John Daly. If they're juicing to be better golfers, I think they need to switch doctors and/or programs.

[Joachim]

Maybe not steroids for golf, but what about nootropics or other drugs that increase mental focus?

[PQJ]

Maybe not steroids for golf, but what about nootropics or other drugs that increase mental focus?

Perhaps. There's just so many things that go into playing good golf that, as a plus handicap and former competitive golfer myself, I question the efficacy of synthetics in terms of enhancing golfing performance in any meaningful way. Emotional control and mental focus are indeed very, very important factors, but they can be well-honed naturally (mindfulness training, yoga, etc.). No amount of drugs will teach you how to play a sidehill downhill lie, nor a 90-yard bunker shot, nor a fairway bunker shot, nor proper club selection etc.

[darylb]

Difference between golf and baseball, though, is that in baseball there is a direct correlation between hitting the ball further and scoring, or throwing the ball harder and faster and making it harder to hit. There is no such correlation in golf between strength and scoring. If you take a look at winners of golf tournaments (regular ones and majors), they run the gamut from short to tall, thin to fat, weak to strong (relatively speaking), etc. The top 5 longest hitters on tour this year are as follows: Ryan Palmer, Nicolas Colsaerts, Steven Bowditch, Sean O'Hair, and John Daly. If they're juicing to be better golfers, I think they need to switch doctors and/or programs.


Two things about a sport like golf. Additional yards for those you mentioned may not help their scoring but additional yards for someone who has the ability to be a champion anyway would definitely beneficial. Approaching a green with a club or two less makes a tremendous difference.

Also, one of the big things I learned about pitchers using was that it speeded recovery. I played competitive baseball and can tell you the idea of recovering faster would have been seriously tempting. At that level, you are in pain almost all of the time.

[malcolm]

Difference between golf and baseball, though, is that in baseball there is a direct correlation between hitting the ball further and scoring, or throwing the ball harder and faster and making it harder to hit. There is no such correlation in golf between strength and scoring. If you take a look at winners of golf tournaments (regular ones and majors), they run the gamut from short to tall, thin to fat, weak to strong (relatively speaking), etc. The top 5 longest hitters on tour this year are as follows: Ryan Palmer, Nicolas Colsaerts, Steven Bowditch, Sean O'Hair, and John Daly. If they're juicing to be better golfers, I think they need to switch doctors and/or programs.

I stand by the statement that for a given body habitus and established hand eye coordination and skill level a significant increase in strength will result in a longer ball, now whether that results in better play who knows but greater strength will give you a longer drive everything else being equal.

[PQJ]

I stand by the statement that for a given body habitus and established hand eye coordination and skill level a significant increase in strength will result in a longer ball, now whether that results in better play who knows but greater strength will give you a longer drive everything else being equal.

I completely agree that more strengh will likely mean more distance. The question is whether more distance will translate into lower scores. As a golfer, I would say that, on balance, one would see a marginal improvement at best.

[Joachim]

As a golfer, I would say that, on balance, one would see a marginal improvement at best.

But does that marginal improvement make the difference between 1st and second place?

[PQJ]

But does that marginal improvement make the difference between 1st and second place?

Don't know. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, I guess. That increased strength that sees you to an eagle on 10 may see you to a quadruple bogey on 11. I guess you could liken it to luck, so to rephrase the question: does a little bit of luck make the difference between 1st and second place? Answer: sometimes yes, sometimes no. I guess the only point I'm making is that there is a direct correlation between drugs and performance in a sport like cycling, whereas the correlation in golf is far more tenuous. I know I'm being repetitive but in golf there are so many variables that go into a good score (and even more into a good score in a competitive round) that altering a few of them is not likely to make a huge difference, especially strength. In sports like cycling, running and swimming, the fastest person usually wins.

[malcolm]

Don't know. Sometimes yes, sometimes no, I guess. That increased strength that sees you to an eagle on 10 may see you to a quadruple bogey on 11. I guess you could liken it to luck, so to rephrase the question: does a little bit of luck make the difference between 1st and second place? Answer: sometimes yes, sometimes no. I guess the only point I'm making is that there is a direct correlation between drugs and performance in a sport like cycling, whereas the correlation in golf is far more tenuous. I know I'm being repetitive but in golf there are so many variables that go into a good score (and even more into a good score in a competitive round) that altering a few of them is not likely to make a huge difference, especially strength. In sports like cycling, running and swimming, the fastest person usually wins.

Lets say you are a fairly competitive pro. Maybe haven't won a major but leading edge of the bell curve. You've got your short game down suddenly you gain 20 or more percent greater strength with the same control and short game. I suspect it couldn't hurt.

I do agree doping is more useful in pure endurance or strength sports.