OT: Windows 8?

[tuxbailey]

Just wondering if anyone has substantial experience for Windows 8 in their desktop/laptop?

I am in the process of "refreshing" my current set up and I am inclined to try Windows 8.

I read that other than the quirky UI Windows 8 is supposed to be faster than Windows 7.

[MattTuck]

I found this review helpful, and pretty funny.

I think his premise, as it applies to your comment, is that the UI is inseparable from the underlying OS. So regardless of what's under the hood, the UI is critical.

Hope it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo

[Keith A]

I've used W8 on a desktop computer for a bit and in my opinion, it is a huge step backwards from Windows 7. I'm hoping this goes the way of Vista and they quickly release something that is usable.

[William]

We've got Windows 21 (or windows 257 if you count the individual panes) here.





:rolleyes::rolleyes:;)
William

[tuxbailey]

hmmm....

Would installing Classic Shell help the experience?

http://www.classicshell.net/

[tuxbailey]

Another reason is that I play PC games and I read that newer versions of DirectX will be released to Windows 8 only.

[mcteague]

I work in IT and needed a new PC last year. After reading all the reports on Win8 I jumped on Win7. It may be fine for touch-tablet type of stuff but expect a steep re-learning curve on a PC.

Tim

[dave thompson]

I have a friend that works for Microsoft and even he doesn't like Win 8. It's designed to 'catch' the population that has been brought up on smartphones and tablets.

Somehow reaching across your desk to swipe your monitor to change pages or get an 'application' doesn't seem very smart. I'm still running XP, IMO the very best Windows.

[tuxbailey]

I have a friend that works for Microsoft and even he doesn't like Win 8. It's designed to 'catch' the population that has been brought up on smartphones and tablets.

Somehow reaching across your desk to swipe your monitor to change pages or get an 'application' doesn't seem very smart. I'm still running XP, IMO the very best Windows.

Thanks. That youtube video looks kind of scary. I think what I will do is to to install it, play with it a bit and see if I can tolerate it. If not, I will just trash it and go back to Windows 7.

[vqdriver]

my cousin has win8 and i used his computer for a while. it's not for me.
i didn't do anything that would impress with me with either compatibility or speed, so i can't speak to whether that's a pos or neg. but i did use the UI quite a bit and can say that it's basically an enormous tablet. that in and of itself makes zero sense for someone like me who likes to use a "real" computer for any real work. for a desktop, with a real tower, and a real keyboard, and a real mouse, the touchscreen interface is a facade to get thru, not a desirable alternative. and really, i don't see the need. for something like a laptop, maaaaaaybe.

fwiw, my cousin bought his computer after the win8 announcement but prior to its release so he was shipped a free upgrade disc when it hit the market. he ran the upgrade and he has regretted since. he says it's slowed things down and made simple tasks confusing. no option to undo it, and he is seriously considering swiping the entire disc and reinstalling from bare.

[shovelhd]

I won't release a new Windows 8 computer to an employee without Classic Shell installed. It's a must-have.

W8 boots a little faster than W7. Other than that, to the end user, the difference is the UI, which is horrible on anything without a touchscreen. And those Apps. They play hell with system imaging. Nothing I have tried gets rid of them permanently in a sysprepped image. They're like a virus. They keep coming back.

W8 sucks bigtime.

[tuxbailey]

I won't release a new Windows 8 computer to an employee without Classic Shell installed. It's a must-have.

W8 boots a little faster than W7. Other than that, to the end user, the difference is the UI, which is horrible on anything without a touchscreen. And those Apps. They play hell with system imaging. Nothing I have tried gets rid of them permanently in a sysprepped image. They're like a virus. They keep coming back.

W8 sucks bigtime.

So... no way to turn off intrusive apps?

I am thinking just installing Windows 8 and just use the Classic Shell to bypass the Modern UI and that way the system is compatible with intermediate upgrades.

[Keith A]

IMHO, that video nailed it and I would personally never install W8 on any of my computers. MS is trying to have an OS run on two different types of platforms and does a poor job on both of them, and in the case of a desktop...it does a horrible job. They have setting scattered all over the place, with some of them in the metro interface and some in the desktop. Oh yeah, remember the start button that has been there since Window's 95? Well it's gone now...and the only thing that made W8 somewhat usable was when I installed a third party app that put the start button back on the desktop.

[shovelhd]

So... no way to turn off intrusive apps?

I am thinking just installing Windows 8 and just use the Classic Shell to bypass the Modern UI and that way the system is compatible with intermediate upgrades.

Note I made my comment in the realm of system imaging. I need to be able to prepare a bunch of computers the same way and not have to configure each one individually. This is in a corporate environment. After I delete the Apps, they come back after the image is restored.

As an end user you can delete the Apps from the Start menu and they will not return.

[tuxbailey]

Note I made my comment in the realm of system imaging. I need to be able to prepare a bunch of computers the same way and not have to configure each one individually. This is in a corporate environment. After I delete the Apps, they come back after the image is restored.

As an end user you can delete the Apps from the Start menu and they will not return.

Gotcha.

So I can modify Windows 8's UI to the extend that it will become ..... Windows 7 :)

I wonder if the under the hood improvements will be worth it.

[shovelhd]

As an upgrade to an existing W7 installation? You'll never convince me it's better, at least before SP1. The problem is, it is getting harder to purchase a new computer with W7 installed, and will only get harder as time goes on. What's more, some of the latest hardware does not have W7 drivers available at all, so you're stuck with W8, or flushing it and going to Linux.

[tuxbailey]

As an upgrade to an existing W7 installation? You'll never convince me it's better, at least before SP1. The problem is, it is getting harder to purchase a new computer with W7 installed, and will only get harder as time goes on. What's more, some of the latest hardware does not have W7 drivers available at all, so you're stuck with W8, or flushing it and going to Linux.

Well, not for an existing W7, but if you were starting from scratch (new CPU, MB, etc) then would it be wise to just go with W8 for down the road support/compatibility.

[Louis]

Don't know about W8, but all I do know is that W7 (specifically, the versions of Excel and PPT that come with it) snck.

[rain dogs]

I found this review helpful, and pretty funny.



That review, while entertaining, is total BS.

I happen to be, what seems to be, the only person on the planet who likes windows 8.

Full disclosure... if you're the type who doesn't like to try things that have been re-envisioned, don't go there, because you'll want to hate it. If you can approach windows 8 with a willingness to rethink how your pc may work more quickly and more laterally... then do it.

What seems to throw people is many just can't get around the idea that the start screen is a full screen version of the start menu. Not only does windows 8 start way faster than any previous windows, it's faster once you get there. You don't need shortcuts on the desktop... because that's the "Metro" startmenu. Shortcuts are more user friendly than that? Doubt it.

Power on (and enter password)
Full started 4 seconds later at "start screen" (Metro)
Click Google Chrome -boom.
Hit windows key - back to Metro
Click Photoshop - boom.
Want news?
windows key - to metro
Click news. - boom.

Time how long it takes to do those tasks in previous windows. Slower... or you have to make shortcuts.

Lastly, if you love windows 7 much, all you do it jit the windows key immediately on start-up and you're on the desktop... literally in milliseconds (back to old comfy)

Like I said. Stuck in your ways? Then why change? Open to something new? Windows 8 is where it's at.

PS... I don't have touchscreen, I'm not 18 (I'm 35) and I've never had a single problem with windows 8 other than two driver issues but that's cause I stupidly deleted them on install, and it took some time to find them for 8.

[Louis]

Full disclosure... if you're the type who doesn't like to try things that have been re-envisioned, don't go there

By re-envisioning, you mean like when in Excel in order to copy a sheet and take it to another workbook you now have to go to the "Format" tab? (Instead of doing Edit, Copy)

If by re-envisioning you mean putting commands in menus that make no sense at all, then yes, I agree with you, they've done a great job re-envisioning things. ;)

[biker72]

Sounds like Windows 8 is another Vista or Me. Too bad. Both 7 and even XP have worked pretty well.

[rain dogs]

By re-envisioning, you mean like when in Excel in order to copy a sheet and take it to another workbook you now have to go to the "Format" tab? (Instead of doing Edit, Copy)

If by re-envisioning you mean putting commands in menus that make no sense at all, then yes, I agree with you, they've done a great job re-envisioning things. ;)

I don't understand your point. That's excel. My excel is no different in 8 than it was in 7. Windows 8 doesn't change the program. :confused:

Unless that's an analogy for a similar change that is different between 7 and 8, but what is the direct example?

[Louis]

I don't understand your point. That's excel. My excel is no different in 8 than it was in 7. Windows 8 doesn't change the program. :confused:

Unless that's an analogy for a similar change that is different between 7 and 8, but what is the direct example?

I was lumping 7 and 8 together vs XP

[gavingould]

i work in IT. we are not spec'ing Windows 8 for anyone as of yet.
as i haven't personally touched it outside of trying to get someone's Surface tablet to connect to Exchange (damn near impossible - even though both are MS products!) i don't have a lot to say about it other than it seems to be oriented heavily to touchscreen interactivity. as noted by others, you can go to 'old mode' and bypass it, but then it's kind of like.. what's the point if you've already been using W7?

clients that have asked about it, we usually come back with "well, what's wrong with your current W7 setup that W8 would resolve?" and the answer is nothing. plus there's the cost of rollout and any necessary upgrades and workarounds, configuration, troubleshooting to have things "work the way they used to"
No one has really pushed for it after that.
hell, some are still on XP, Server 2003, Exchange 2003 (don't get me started), and Office 2003; usually just the cheapos though.

[dave thompson]

My wife and I work backstage for an international supermarket chain and they're not even considering going to Win8. It's not robust enough to do any kind of business on.

[rain dogs]

Windows 8 is Windows 7 just with the metro interface and apps (vs calling them applications).

On the desktop it's exactly the same just with some upgraded booting architecture and security. It's hardly new from the ground up.

Windows 7 was never supposed to happen. The windows 8 project started before windows 7 shipped in 2009 and 8 was meant to be the next version of Vista.

7 was just Vista de-bugged. 8 is the Vista/7 project with Metro. Metro is the UI successor to Aero and is very distinct from Aero.

Any ideas that 7 is drastically different than 8 (other than Metro vs Aero) are misguided as 8 is 7... just kinda like the next service pack. The reason people hate 8 is because of Metro which is seen as a cumbersome, schizo layer between the user and what is essentially 7. Although, it's really just a full screen start-menu and apps.

I think the same "black magic" that exists around tubulars.... has gotten into the windows debate.

[sg8357]

As an upgrade to an existing W7 installation? You'll never convince me it's better, at least before SP1.

Excellent advice, never ever install an MS product before SP1,
XP reached happy land at SP3. 7 spends most of it's time updating
itself, was installing images today, only 153 updates required.

Win8 seems bipolar, it'll probably work great with the kinnect,
the middle finger gesture brings up the task manager to kill unruly apps.

[Llewellyn]

I bought a laptop a couple of weeks ago that had Windows 8 on it. Then I found out that the MYOB version I use won't work on it unless I upgrade to a newer MYOB version........no thanks :mad:

I'm keeping it because it was cheap enough and I can't be bothered taking it back, so it'll get used for surfing in the lounge, but it's way different to anything I've used before (I'm not a sophisticated PC user) and it looks like it was meant for tablets rather than laptops or desktops.

I prefer XP, never had a problem with it in the 7 years it's been on the desktop

[tuxbailey]

To bring this thread a full circle...

I went ahead and installed W8 on the new set up. The overall feel is that it is indeed faster; however, the CPU is 3 generation ahead of my old hardware so I can't really say that it is much faster than my W7 system.

Some impression...

Install: Hardware improvement aside, it was fastest and easiest install I have done on any Windows OS, counting the Windows 3.1 time. It just might have to do with the fact that it is a fresh install on compatible hardware. I learned enough from previous upgrade to not do an upgrade when it comes to Windows.

Usability:

It is a lot like Windows 7 once you pass the start screen. So if you don't have a compelling reason and your machine is fast enough then it is probably not worth upgrading.

That being said, the start screen doesn't bother me. I can just get in and out of the desktop using the Windows key on the keyboard. I did google a solution on how to create your own start button that launch you into the start screen, without third party tool.

The thing that it was hard for me to get used to is the absence of the shutdown/restart button. It takes 4 clicks to get to the shutdown button and because the charms bar is not visually present like the start button, it takes some getting used to. I know I can access it easily by using ALT+F4, but it is not quite the same in a GUI based system. As a result, I google again to find out how to make my start menu and made it as a separate tool bar in the lower right. Usable solution.


I think I will keep W8 unless something else bothers the hell of me.

[esldude]

I have upgraded a handful of machines for other people and two machines of my own. Using the same hardware it is faster. I don't like Metro and a few other things. But for the most part you can simply avoid them. What you little you can't avoid Metro is just that....very little.

It has some other under the hood benefits that pay dividends. Unlike Vista, which wasn't ready at all until SP1, I feel like Win8 has gotten an unjustified bad rep. It is a bit different, and at first looks more different than it is. I think after using it a bit, it is one of their better releases. Unfortunately the bad vibe isn't helping, and isn't justified.

If you get a chance at Win8 jump on it. Like any new software there is a bit of adjustment period. A few steps backwards, but it overall is an improvement.

If you are stuck on XP and think it the bees knees, well keep to yourself please. It was good in its day, but is so rickety with all the layers of patches etc. I no longer agree to work on someone's machine with XP. It must have at least Vista or newer. Anything less makes no sense.

[Louis]

If you are stuck on XP and think it the bees knees, well keep to yourself please.

It is you who say it. ;)

[MattTuck]

I think someone brought it up in this thread, or another thread on Apple OS, but there's a dichotomy coming in computer UI. One fork will go down the road that optimizes content consumption; the other will go down a road of content production and analysis.

It's unclear if a UI will be very useful for both of those domains. iOS and Android are geared more toward content consumption. I'm not sure which way windows will go.

[rain dogs]

The thing that it was hard for me to get used to is the absence of the shutdown/restart button. ....


I think I will keep W8 unless something else bothers the hell of me.

You can quite easily create a shutdown button using a script and the shutdown icon on put it on your metro screen if you want, that's what I did. You just have to go to metro click it and the pc is off immediately in one step.

I think it sounds like you will enjoy windows 8. In my mind it's much better. IMHO people are confusing learned behavior with intuitive... which are not the same. Yes, it's tough to re-learn and forget the old linear pathways method but with windows 8 you only need to know the destination.

Think about you mother (or mine) maybe your mom is pc savvy. My mom knows that CBC is on the internet, but she doesn't really know where the internet is and what tool she needs to access it (chrome for example). Then... she doesn't know the address (the whole www.CBC.ca) or whatever. She just knows "CBC" and that she wants to go there.

In 8.... you get to the metro screen and if the app is there, you click it and you're in. If not, you just type (nothing else, no looking for a search field) c..b..c and up comes the search and shows you the app. It's very simple.

Even if that doesn't work... you go to the "store" and buy the app, which is shown from the original search... no extra step. Again, simple.

It's like saying: "I'm going to my Mom's"

vs

"I'm going to the garage, using my bike, riding to the 'burbs, and visiting my Mom at 12288...."

The old DOS pathways are gone (finally) and that system of thinking is less needed.

[shovelhd]

i work in IT. we are not spec'ing Windows 8 for anyone as of yet.
as i haven't personally touched it outside of trying to get someone's Surface tablet to connect to Exchange (damn near impossible - even though both are MS products!) i don't have a lot to say about it other than it seems to be oriented heavily to touchscreen interactivity. as noted by others, you can go to 'old mode' and bypass it, but then it's kind of like.. what's the point if you've already been using W7?

clients that have asked about it, we usually come back with "well, what's wrong with your current W7 setup that W8 would resolve?" and the answer is nothing. plus there's the cost of rollout and any necessary upgrades and workarounds, configuration, troubleshooting to have things "work the way they used to"
No one has really pushed for it after that.
hell, some are still on XP, Server 2003, Exchange 2003 (don't get me started), and Office 2003; usually just the cheapos though.

Dude I am still chained to a Windows NT4 domain. I am halfway through an AD 2008 conversion. Don't blame me. I don't set my priorities.

Which brings me to your Surface tablet and Exchange. If your Exchange server is in-house, it requires AD, and Windows 8 cannot join a domain, only Windows 8 Pro can. Maybe this has something to do with your tablet and Exchange.