Chain size - 9 or 10 speed

[Daveyk]

I have a 6600 crankset and 9 speed RD.
Which chain do I buy?
Also, do I need to worry about chainring spacing?

Thanks in advance.

[nate2351]

The word from shimano is a 10spd chain, or as they put it "match the chain with the chain rings". Seems counterintuitive I know but the idea is that it saves the chain rings and will work in the rear instead of working in the rear and destroying the chain rings.

[eddief]

match shifters and cassette with chain = 10 speed chain.

but it sounds like you 9 speed shifters, 9 speed rd, 9 cassette, 10 crank = 9 speed chain.

[pinkshogun]

most of my bikes use 8 speed cassettes with 9 speed chains with good results

[Daveyk]

Yes, 9 speed sifters also. Thank you for clarifying my situation.
So, 9 speed chain then.

match shifters and cassette with chain = 10 speed chain.

but it sounds like you 9 speed shifters, 9 speed rd, 9 cassette, 10 crank = 9 speed chain.

[eddief]

i am not mechanic and don't play one on this forum.

[nate2351]

Yes, 9 speed sifters also. Thank you for clarifying my situation.
So, 9 speed chain then.

Seriously man, senior mechanic at a Shimano service center here, use a 10spd.

[Louis]

Assuming the shifting and low-noise performance of all the chains under consideration is similar, I would choose the one that gave me 1) the longest useful life, and 2) the least likelihood of sudden failure while out on a ride.

[eddief]

to the rings than a 10 chain. Are 10 cogs and rings actually thinner or is all the difference simply about inter spacing? or both?

Seriously man, senior mechanic at a Shimano service center here, use a 10spd.

[nate2351]

9 and 10 speed cogs are all 3/32" pitch so the compatibility issue you run into lies in the spacing between the cogs. The higher up you go in speeds the closer the cogs are together.

What that means is if you try to run a 9 speed chain on a 10 speed cassette it doesnt work because the outer plates of the chain rub on the other cogs, but you can use a 10 speed cog as a single speed with a 9 speed chain no problem because they are both 3/32" pitch.

Therefore you can run a 10 speed chain on a 9 speed cassette no problem because the cogs are 3/32" pitch as spaced out even further apart than a 10 speed cassette so the plate doesnt rub on the other cogs.

Shimano doesnt want you using a 9 speed chain on 10 speed chain rings because the wider plates will wear out the shift ramps and pins faster.

[ultraman6970]

Even in shimano 8 speed you can put a 10 speed chain w/o any problem. As long as the teeth fit in the chain it will be ok. In 7, 6 and maybe 5 speed (never tried with 5) even thought the 10 speed chain will clear the teeth the spacing of the cog could be a problem.

The rd dont care what chain do you put in the back, because the jockey wheels actually dont have teeth as the cogs or the chaintings, are there more than nothing to guide the chain, the rd will move what has to move from center of cog to center of next cog no matter the chain.

Running a 10 speed chain in a 8 speed mtb hybrid set up for years, not a single problem ever. Even run more silent.

IMO all the manufacturers should just toss the 9 speed chain and just go 10 and 8 speed chains. No idea how an 11 chain will work in 10 and 9 speed drivetrains but if it works that would make 10 and 9 speed chains useless.

[oldpotatoe]

I have a 6600 crankset and 9 speed RD.
Which chain do I buy?
Also, do I need to worry about chainring spacing?

Thanks in advance.

Match the chain to the rear cogset spacing..9s->9s, 10s->10s..the front rings don't care.

[oldpotatoe]

most of my bikes use 8 speed cassettes with 9 speed chains with good results

I've heard this but have to wonder, why use a 9s chain(more expensive) when a 8s chain(less expensive) works great?

[oldpotatoe]

9 and 10 speed cogs are all 3/32" pitch so the compatibility issue you run into lies in the spacing between the cogs. The higher up you go in speeds the closer the cogs are together.

What that means is if you try to run a 9 speed chain on a 10 speed cassette it doesnt work because the outer plates of the chain rub on the other cogs, but you can use a 10 speed cog as a single speed with a 9 speed chain no problem because they are both 3/32" pitch.

Therefore you can run a 10 speed chain on a 9 speed cassette no problem because the cogs are 3/32" pitch as spaced out even further apart than a 10 speed cassette so the plate doesnt rub on the other cogs.

Shimano doesnt want you using a 9 speed chain on 10 speed chain rings because the wider plates will wear out the shift ramps and pins faster.

'Cept is doesn't shift worth a damn because the cogs are farther apart PLUS a 10s chain is more expensive..sorry, using a 9s chain on a '10s CR or vice versa doesn't hurt anything. The chainrings are the same thickness, they are just a wee bit closer together is all.

[nate2351]

It doesn't matter that the cog are further apart that's what the derailleur is for.

[Daveyk]

Now I need to get one of each and try them.
My gut tells me both will work well enough for me.

[oldpotatoe]

It doesn't matter that the cog are further apart that's what the derailleur is for.

Did you mention you were a shimano tech guy? maybe that ain't accurate but the shifter moves the RD the appropriate amount depending on the spacing of the cogset so an appropriate width chain, matched to the cogset, works the best.
\
Saying 'it doesn't matter that the cog are further apart, that's what the der is for', tells me you don't really understand how index shifting systems work.

You can't use a 10s chain on 9s spaced cogsets and expect the 'der' to make up the difference. Doesn't work that way.

[Ralph]

I'm not a Shimano Tech guy....but I've been wrenching on bikes in my garage with adequate tools for about 40 years.

With 9 speed shifters, 9 speed cassette, why would you not use a 9 speed chain? They were developed to be used together. In this situation, rings not a consideation. You know that works well. When 9's chain no longer made, it's good to know you can sub in a 10's chain, if necessary. But then....I imagine 9's chain will be around longer than I will.

[danl1]

Did you mention you were a shimano tech guy? maybe that ain't accurate but the shifter moves the RD the appropriate amount depending on the spacing of the cogset so an appropriate width chain, matched to the cogset, works the best.
\
Saying 'it doesn't matter that the cog are further apart, that's what the der is for', tells me you don't really understand how index shifting systems work.

You can't use a 10s chain on 9s spaced cogsets and expect the 'der' to make up the difference. Doesn't work that way.

The couple of bikes I have set up that way would be very interested to learn that they don't work. I can agree that matching a 9s chain might potentially make the rear shifts a tiny bit better, but by experience it's less of a difference than between chain manufacturers. The shaping of the outer plates relative to the shape of the ramps matters more, IMO.

But saying that it doesn't matter up front because the rings 'are only a little closer together' is a bit of a miss, especially if we're talking about compact systems. Those little rubs in small-small combinations add up, and picking the wider chain can make them happen two extra cogs down the cassette.

But, angels on the head of a pin. Either will work fine. For the scenario, I'd pick 10, but wouldn't call 9 wrong.

[zuzu27]

I just went through some of this while gearing up my formerly single speed Kona 2-9.

I installed the following:
2013 Shimano SLX 10 spd shifters
2013 SLX 10 spd rear 11-36 cogset
2013 Shimano XT rear derailleur
2013 Shimano XT front derailleur 2x10
Shimano HG-X 10 speed chain

I tried mating all of this with a Truvativ AKA 2x9 speed crankset...because I got it for a crazy deal.
It actually worked pretty well...the front shifting was adequate....but the big problem was the chainline was too extreme in the big-big (in this case a 36-36) combination. The chain was actually rubbing on both the edge of the cog in the rear and the edge of the chainring on the crank. The AKA crank has a chainline of 51mm.

I ended up having to choose between a Shimano XT 2x10 crankset (48.8mm chainline) or the Truvativ/SRAM X9 2x10 (49.5mm chain line). I noticed Specialized was basically running the same combination of parts on some of their new 2013 models....so I knew it was do-able.

I really wanted the SRAM X9 crank because of the bashring....although I knew the Shimano crank would be the ideal.
The X9 comes with 10 speed optimized chainrings and the spider is actually slightly different on the X9 compared to the AKA....even though they look nearly identical. The chain rings look closer together and it has added ramps.

It definitely shifts silky smooth now, the chain is quieter, and the chainline problem in the big-big combination was solved.

Cheers,
Joey

[nate2351]

Did you mention you were a shimano tech guy? maybe that ain't accurate but the shifter moves the RD the appropriate amount depending on the spacing of the cogset so an appropriate width chain, matched to the cogset, works the best.
\
Saying 'it doesn't matter that the cog are further apart, that's what the der is for', tells me you don't really understand how index shifting systems work.

You can't use a 10s chain on 9s spaced cogsets and expect the 'der' to make up the difference. Doesn't work that way.

I dont work for Shimano, sorry if you thought so. I work for a certified tech center which means a regular shop, but with a close working relationship with shimano (shimano takes our word on warranties for example) and a series of clinics with the tech reps for every new product launch.
We went through this when 10 speed was coming out like i said a 10 speed chain is recommended in this set up. I've set up bikes this way and haven't had any issues. I've also done this set up with 9 speed chains and gotten very clunky front shifting even with DA shifters and derailleurs. Obviously the best way to go is the get components that are all designed to work with each other but sometimes you have to find the best solution for the parts that are present.

[oldpotatoe]

I dont work for Shimano, sorry if you thought so. I work for a certified tech center which means a regular shop, but with a close working relationship with shimano (shimano takes our word on warranties for example) and a series of clinics with the tech reps for every new product launch.
We went through this when 10 speed was coming out like i said a 10 speed chain is recommended in this set up. I've set up bikes this way and haven't had any issues. I've also done this set up with 9 speed chains and gotten very clunky front shifting even with DA shifters and derailleurs. Obviously the best way to go is the get components that are all designed to work with each other but sometimes you have to find the best solution for the parts that are present.

??

Sorry, don't understand..I guess I'll continue to put 10s chains onto 10s cogsets and 9s chains onto 9s cogsets and just adjust the FD so that it works well, regardless of whether the crankset is 9s or 10s.