NYC Politics and Cycling

[laupsi]

My apologies if this was previously posted. I think the bike friendly band wagon runs non-linear. With fits and starts we will eventually consider bikes as real transportation in this country.

[fiamme red]

I commute daily by bike in NYC, and I agree fully with Anthony Weiner (who unfortunately torpedoed his political career): "When I become mayor, you know what I’m going to spend my first year doing? I’m going to have a bunch of ribbon-cuttings tearing out your bike lanes.”

[Ahneida Ride]

Just don't get caught cycling and drinking a 32oz soda pop. :banana:


http://www.hardtofindsoftware.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/biggulp.jpg

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . might be served well to consider this scenario . . .

Candidate is elected . . . Tears out bike lanes . . . first fatality happens on street where there USED to be bike lane . . . Mayor is crucified in social media.

BBD

[lukasz]

I commute daily by bike in NYC, and I agree fully with Anthony Weiner (who unfortunately torpedoed his political career): "When I become mayor, you know what I’m going to spend my first year doing? I’m going to have a bunch of ribbon-cuttings tearing out your bike lanes.”

Yeah, torpedoed is a pretty accurate description.

I commute daily too. Sometimes right down Flatbush Ave from Brooklyn College to the bridge.

Why get rid of them? They give us legitimacy. No reason to be a tough guy about it or think that if we're seen as not caring for them then we will get more respect on the road (the only two reasons I can envision for a cyclist wanting to get rid of them). Amsterdam wasn't built in a day.

What we need is bike lanes where they make sense: under the BQE, down Fifth Ave, down Flatbush Ave. I'd trade lanes on one way streets in quiet neighborhoods for those. But we had to start somewhere.

[dumbod]

I don't commute by bike (working at home has its advantages) but I ride several thousand miles a year in the city. More the most part, I think bike paths are irrelevant - drivers and cyclists both ignore them. In theory, they're a good idea but, on the whole, I think that they're dangerous because (i) they give cyclists a false sense of security and (ii) they encourage people to ride who don't have the skills to ride safely.

On the other hand, Anthony Weiner got exactly what he deserved.

[lukasz]

I don't think drivers ignore them. Look at all the flak bike lanes get. They're not very effective but they are a start. A driver would have a hard time telling you to get off the road on a street with a painted lane. Of course I've had rocket scientists tell me to get off roads without lanes, but you'll always get that.

[boxerboxer]

. . might be served well to consider this scenario . . .

Candidate is elected . . . Tears out bike lanes . . . first fatality happens on street where there USED to be bike lane . . . Mayor is crucified in social media.

BBD

Agreed.

Politician: "Oh, I'm sorry, we don't consider scenarios. I hope I can count on your vote next year."

[fiamme red]

I commute daily too. Sometimes right down Flatbush Ave from Brooklyn College to the bridge.

Why get rid of them? They give us legitimacy. No reason to be a tough guy about it or think that if we're seen as not caring for them then we will get more respect on the road (the only two reasons I can envision for a cyclist wanting to get rid of them). Amsterdam wasn't built in a day.

What we need is bike lanes where they make sense: under the BQE, down Fifth Ave, down Flatbush Ave. I'd trade lanes on one way streets in quiet neighborhoods for those. But we had to start somewhere.I don't think we're talking about the same thing. The lanes I'd like to see ripped out are the ones separated from traffic by a row of parked cars, e.g., in Mnahattan on 1st, 2nd, Broadway, 8th, 9th, Columbus, Grand St. I have nothing against painted lanes -- they may be useless, but they don't fence me in.

There will never be a bike lane on Flatbush Ave. The city only puts bike lanes where it's already safe to ride without one. Personally, I never ride on Flatbush Ave, since it's far too dangerous, with very heavy and fast traffic. There are much better alternatives for cycling, though not quite so direct.

[fiamme red]

The concern is noted even in the Bloomberg administration, where some speak of invisible countdown clocks in every city office, reminding officials of the dwindling time to complete projects.

“Three-hundred and twenty-nine days,” Janette Sadik-Khan, the city’s transportation commissioner, said in a recent interview. “There’s an app where you can have it on your phone.”Well, there may be such an app, but there's no doubt that for most of its users, day 329 can't come soon enough.

[christian]

Bike lanes aren't about you, Fiamme Red. They're about casual cyclists who want to feel more at ease cycling in the big city. The more bike lanes and more casual cyclists we have, the better to break the back of the automotive cultural hegemony.

Whether you or I like them is immaterial.

[fiamme red]

Bike lanes aren't about you, Fiamme Red. They're about casual cyclists who want to feel more at ease cycling in the big city. The more bike lanes and more casual cyclists we have, the better to break the back of the automotive cultural hegemony.

Whether you or I like them is immaterial.There are many unproven assumptions made by bike lane advocates. One of them is safety in numbers, another is that more commuters on bikes equals fewer commuters in cars.

As to the former, this axiom implies that more cyclists on the road means that all cyclists are safer, patently false in a case like the 5 Boro Bike Tour or the West Side Greenway on a Sunday afternoon in June. I had been stopped at a red light for five seconds yesterday morning when a cyclist who couldn't brake in time rammed into my rear wheel. I think we've already reached a critical mass of idiots on bikes in Manhattan.

As to the latter, I don't know a single person who was persuaded by the installation of segregated on-street facilities to commute by bike instead of by car in Manhattan. It may possibly be true in an area that has poor mass transit, and where parking is plentiful, but neither of these is the case in Manhattan. Here, one more bike doesn't equal one less car, but rather one less pedestrian or user of mass transit.

[christian]

As to the former, this axiom implies that more cyclists on the road means that all cyclists are safer, patently false in a case like the 5 Boro Bike Tour or the West Side Greenway on a Sunday afternoon in June.Don't be silly -- the fact is that the vast majority of serious bicycle collision injuries are caused by automobile drivers, not other cyclists. And it's pretty well established that automobile-bicycle collisions are reduced when bicycle traffic is a more prevalent part of overall traffic -- this follows from logic -- when cyclists are increased, drivers become more adept at interacting with them, and it becomes increasingly likely that the driver is also a cyclist.

After all, when you drive, do you give cyclists appropriate room and care?

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/pasanen/images/fig6.gif

[soupless]

I commute a lot in NYC, mostly from BK to TriBeCa, and I think a major issue facing cyclists and drivers alike is that SO MANY PEOPLE ARE JERKS.

It costs nothing to take maybe half of a second (on a bike or in a car) to consider the impact of your actions on those around you, and whether or not your actions may endanger yourself and others.

But, this being New York, nobody does that, and so we have this.

Also: I worry more about pedestrians or other cyclists than I do about cars most days.

[fiamme red]

Don't be silly -- the fact is that the vast majority of serious bicycle collision injuries are caused by automobile drivers, not other cyclists. And it's pretty well established that automobile-bicycle collisions are reduced when bicycle traffic is a more prevalent part of overall traffic -- this follows from logic -- when cyclists are increased, drivers become more adept at interacting with them, and it becomes increasingly likely that the driver is also a cyclist.

After all, when you drive, do you give cyclists appropriate room and care?

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/pasanen/images/fig6.gifJohn Allen, on whose website Pasanen's study with the graph above appears, is skeptical of the safety in numbers studies: http://john-s-allen.com/blog/?p=669.

And as Pasanen writes himself: "Cycling competes rather more with public transport and walking than with the use of private motor vehicles. Most Europeans do not even have a chance to drive a car in their daily routines. In large cities with limited parking and street capacity, there is an additional problem. A car driver who chooses to ride a bicycle instead may only provide an opportunity for somebody else to utilize the car."

[christian]

I don't think Allen is - he questions the math in Jacobsen's study, but points out that the Berkeley study indicates:

"Increasing numbers decrease the rate of crashes, but not the number of crashes."

This is obviously a bit oblique, but if the rate of crashes goes down, the risk per cycling trip obviously goes down. I'm not sure why Allen thinks the total number of crashes should go down as the population increases...

Anecdotally, having lived in the US and Sweden and having worked in the Netherlands for 6 months, my experience is that mass bicycle usage does correlate strongly with fewer car-bicycle collisions.

[Likes2ridefar]

To fit in with the selfish/jerk NYC model, all those pesky bike lanes have done for me is earn me a ticket this past summer for NOT riding in the bike lane going north on 8th avenue a bit past 14th street.

I told the cop it was my opinion that it was more dangerous to ride in the bike lane due to the police cars parked in the lane, pedestrians not paying attention whilst crossing as well as cyclists going the wrong direction.

I told him I am more comfortable going the speed of the cars along the avenues, but he didn't seem to really care.

He then asked me where my bell was on my bike, and sadly my horn had just been stolen the day before. He said he could ticket me for that as well, but would let me off this time.

[laupsi]

To fit in with the selfish/jerk NYC model, all those pesky bike lanes have done for me is earn me a ticket this past summer for NOT riding in the bike lane going north on 8th avenue a bit past 14th street.

I told the cop it was my opinion that it was more dangerous to ride in the bike lane due to the police cars parked in the lane, pedestrians not paying attention whilst crossing as well as cyclists going the wrong direction.

I told him I am more comfortable going the speed of the cars along the avenues, but he didn't seem to really care.

He then asked me where my bell was on my bike, and sadly my horn had just been stolen the day before. He said he could ticket me for that as well, but would let me off this time.

thank god for the great eats otherwise what's the point?

[fiamme red]

David Moore puts things in perpspective:

http://www.imediaethics.org/News/3757/Bikers_angst_what_do_5_polls_say_about_bike_lane_a nxiety.php

So, if the vast majority of people don’t really know much (or anything) about the mayor’s bicycle program, how they can say it’s a “good idea”? Obviously, they can’t. And that’s what’s important to understand about these polls.

They’re not measuring people’s reactions to Bloomberg’s policies, as much as they’re measuring the idyllic notions people have about how wonderful it is to ride bikes. But as the iMediaEthics poll made clear, when it comes specifically to the expansion of bike lanes in New York City, the people who feel strongly about the issue are about evenly divided – with a majority along for the ride either way.

What this means for the mayoral election is that the bike lane issue is still in play. Most voters aren’t going to punish or reward candidates for their views on bicycle lanes, but there is a significant portion of the electorate for whom the issue really matters. Unlike what the polls say, those who strenuously oppose the bike lanes are about equal in number to those who strongly support them.

That description, of course, is among city residents generally. The bike issue will obviously play differently in different neighborhoods. And candidates of whatever persuasion will be well advised not to assume the issue is “settled.”

[lukasz]

To fit in with the selfish/jerk NYC model, all those pesky bike lanes have done for me is earn me a ticket this past summer for NOT riding in the bike lane going north on 8th avenue a bit past 14th street.

I told the cop it was my opinion that it was more dangerous to ride in the bike lane due to the police cars parked in the lane, pedestrians not paying attention whilst crossing as well as cyclists going the wrong direction.

I told him I am more comfortable going the speed of the cars along the avenues, but he didn't seem to really care.

He then asked me where my bell was on my bike, and sadly my horn had just been stolen the day before. He said he could ticket me for that as well, but would let me off this time.

You took it to court and got it thrown out, right? If there is a hazard in the lane you are quite free to leave it. Delivery trucks and pedestrians walking in the lane are certainly a hazard. It wasn't the bike lane that gave you a ticket. It was a guy that needed to meet a ticket quota.

fiamme red: I think Flatbush will get a lane someday. No NIMBY opposition. Fifth Ave north of 23rd might never get one, though. I know there are better routes to get around but if I'm going from job to job I don't have time for the scenic route and Flatbush is well within my ability. If cycling infrastructure keeps spreading, the day that streets like the ones I mentioned get lanes is the day this city finally becomes bike friendly. People still can't sort out this "cycling because it is a practical way to get around" thing. The ones giving us grief are the ones who think it is all about going in circles in Prospect Park at 5AM.

[Likes2ridefar]

You took it to court and got it thrown out, right? If there is a hazard in the lane you are quite free to leave it. Delivery trucks and pedestrians walking in the lane are certainly a hazard. It wasn't the bike lane that gave you a ticket. It was a guy that needed to meet a ticket quota.


He told me that the law (or whatever rule that says it) states that if there is a bicycle lane provided on the street then it's required to cycle in it. I do not have the time nor the patience to go to an NYC court. Once was enough with housing court and what a huge disappointment that was. the ticket cost $50 and left no record.

Today, with this topic on my mind I attempted to take what would be considered a legal route to work once I was off the West side path. I crossed 18th street instead of my usual 16th st since there is a bike lane there. Between the highway and 11th ave cars were parked in the bike lane making it inaccessible. Between 11th and 10th ave. large trucks were parked in the bike lane nearly the entire way making it impossible to ride in.

Then from 10th to 9th avenue, the bike lane mysteriously disappeared. I then turned right onto 9th avenue into the separate bike lane and waited at the red light (bike red light) While doing so two cyclists passed me and blew through the light. Another then came from the wrong direction and passed me during the red light. The light turned green and a pedestrian continued walking right in front of me forcing me to stop again. Crossing the street, two joggers going the wrong direction in the bike path passed me. Then two women talking on cell phones and walking the wrong direction passed me. This was all in two streets! I turned left on to 16th street and rode past my building because the entrance is on 15th st and 8th avenue is one way the wrong direction. I continued on to 7th avenue and almost got hit by a car leaving a parking spot and not seeing me. I turned right on to 7th avenue and then waited at the light and turned right on to 15th street to return to 8th avenue and on to where i work a little before 9th avenue. It added probably 5-10 minutes and exposed me to numerous incidents that simply rarely occur if I go my usual route against traffic and generally breaking a lot of city rules.