Why drivers hate cyclists

[mvrider]

An academic, psychological explanation:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130212-why-you-really-hate-cyclists

Deep within the human psyche, fostered there because it helps us co-ordinate with strangers and so build the global society that is a hallmark of our species, is an anger at people who break the rules, who take the benefits without contributing to the cost. And cyclists trigger this anger when they use the roads but don't follow the same rules as cars.

[redir]

That doesn't make much sense when you get harassed or assaulted when you are simply riding along on the side of the road obeying the law which happens all too frequently. I think it's more that drivers feel we are in their way. They brake the rules just as much as cyclist do too.

[Ahneida Ride]

"Driving is a very moral activity – there are rules of the road, both legal and informal, and there are good and bad drivers.
The whole intricate dance of the rush-hour junction only works because everybody knows the rules and follows them: keeping in lane; indicating properly; first her turn, now mine, now yours.

Then along comes a cyclist, who seems to believe that the rules aren't made for them, especially the ones that hop onto the pavement, run red lights, or go the wrong way down one-way streets."

I recently had a cyclists run out right in front of me at a red light just
as the light was changing green. He was completely oblivious to the
danger involved. I saw this idiot 100 yards back and just knew he was
going to do something stupid. am I pissed ? :butt:

[Jaq]

I love the "take the benefits without contributing to the cost" argument I hear so many people make.

Yeah, I have no right to use roads because, as a cyclist, I'm somehow exempt from taxes. Jeebus. If that were true, every greedy, tax-dodging a-hole from here to Timbuktu would be on a bike.

If anything, we pay more taxes than before. I don't drive any less because I also ride bikes; I rely on cars like every other poor slob. So I pay my gas tax at the pump, my income tax to the gub'ment, etc., etc., etc.

And then, while they're at home hoarkin' down cake and ice-cream and Marlboro Reds and thinking that sex is a form of exercise (and who can fault that logic, eh? Every nine months, they shed another 10 pound future fattie), I have to go and feed a fetish for a sport that - let's face it - ain't cheap. Just the tax on the crap I've bought for this friggin' sport in the last couple years seems like it'd fund a pro cycling team.

[christian]

Local roads are primarily paid for by sales and property taxes, not gasoline taxes.

[DreaminJohn]

Is this why I feel the need to punish those blocking the left lane on highways? I'm just not happy unless I try to run them off the road as I pass them.

:banana::banana:

[russ46]

My belief is this is a topic where blame can be shared by all participants and I'm including cyclists, joggers, motorists, runners & walkers. I think a fairly small percentage of road users are to blame but unfortunately its enough to set off "road rage" in those of us prone to such reactions.

One area I frequently ride in has a lake with high recreation use in good weather. Excluding motorists, all of the user list above can be observed hogging the road at times, which is very narrow & winding, in groups that are 2 to 4 abreast. When this combined with motorists who are sightseeing or otherwise distracted, there is a potential for disaster.

[Dave B]

I keep telling my wife when I pass a car where the driver was doing something stupid and give them a dirty look or thumbs up that the offending driver will take my gesture to heart, go home and think about what they did and correct the mistakes they made.

;)


See I am making better drivers.

[christian]

My belief is this is a topic where blame can be shared by all participants and I'm including cyclists, joggers, motorists, runners & walkers.Yeah, maybe, but I've yet to be sideswiped at 55mph by a pedestrian. :)

[Shortsocks]

This is a very well written article. I appreciate it. Thanks.

Socks

[bthornt]

You're having fun, they're not.
You're fit, they're not.

[flydhest]

So, why is it that other drivers don't regularly trigger that anger when the majority that I see on DC streets are also breaking the law? The answer, I suspect, is that when most car drivers break the law (speeding, talking on the phone, rolling through stop signs) they are seen as an individual doing something wrong, and likely not all that wrong (mostly stopped at the stop sign, only 10 mph over the limit). When a cyclist does it, the raging driver sees all cyclists embodied in the scofflaw. The self/other question that is perennial.

[bluesea]

Interesting analysis but I suspect the majority of drivers who hate bicyclists, hate other drivers as well.

[rugbysecondrow]

You're having fun, they're not.
You're fit, they're not.

This has always been my favorite BS response.


Why do drivers hate cyclists?

Do they? Think about how many cars pass you on any given ride, then how many rides you go on without being acosted or yelled at. Thousands of cars for me. So yes, one local yocal might yell at you, big deal, but don't ignore the fact that 999 passed right on by without even caring a lick. Pretty low %.

Is there an occasional issue, sure. Is it frequent enough that we can ask "Why do drivers hate cyclists". No, not where I live.
Cyclists seem to want to pick a fight and they LOVE to assume the underdog status.

[torquer]

Interesting analysis but I suspect the majority of drivers who hate bicyclists, hate other drivers as well.
True, but the other drivers are anonymous, and protected by two tons of metal. Much easier taking out your rage on someone whose only protection is a layer of lycra.

[Grant McLean]

"Driving is a very moral activity – there are rules of the road, both legal and informal, and there are good and bad drivers"

There are also good and bad rules.

The traffic code in most cities is written for cars. Bikes aren't cars.
In a road system has been configured giving priority to cars over pedestrians
and bikes, it shouldn't be any wonder in that system, not all the peds and bikes
are going to follow all the rules. I'm not saying that's the right approach,
but the reality is that "rules of the road" are really "rules for cars".

Amsterdam and Copenhagen have much more reasonable systems.

-g

[malcolm]

I just read the manifesto of the ex cop in LA and in it he mentions sharing the road with cyclists and says he'll be happy to if they can at least do the speed limit.

[gdw]

"I just read the manifesto of the ex cop in LA and in it he mentions sharing the road with cyclists and says he'll be happy to if they can at least do the speed limit."

The guy's a wacko but he's right, most of the rage is related to the fact that cyclists impede traffic flow because they generally aren't capable of riding the posted speed limit. The jerk who dispises cyclists also hate runners, farmers on tractors, slow drivers, the Amish... basically anyone who interferes with their forward progress.


"Cyclists seem to want to pick a fight and they LOVE to assume the underdog status."

Somewhat correct. Road cyclists like to whine not fight.

[rileystylee]

I just read the manifesto of the ex cop in LA and in it he mentions sharing the road with cyclists and says he'll be happy to if they can at least do the speed limit.

Sounds like a right tw*t that ex cop.

I commute 30 miles a day over here in the UK - the majority of drivers give me a good amount of space but there are two other types:
1) those who nearly knock me off by being impatient and passing too close:bike:
2) those who are even more impatient and overtake narrowley missing oncoming traffic. (W*nkers)

I do however drive a car too and last year drove approx 17,000 miles so can see it from both sides...
Overall though bus , van and car drivers are the worst culprits - it doesn't actually take much to slow down and WAIT until it's safe to overtake...

WHY is everyone in such a rush these days?:confused:

[LegendRider]

So, why is it that other drivers don't regularly trigger that anger when the majority that I see on DC streets are also breaking the law? The answer, I suspect, is that when most car drivers break the law (speeding, talking on the phone, rolling through stop signs) they are seen as an individual doing something wrong, and likely not all that wrong (mostly stopped at the stop sign, only 10 mph over the limit). When a cyclist does it, the raging driver sees all cyclists embodied in the scofflaw. The self/other question that is perennial.

Well put.

[rugbysecondrow]

"Cyclists seem to want to pick a fight and they LOVE to assume the underdog status."

Somewhat correct. Road cyclists like to whine not fight.


HAHA, laughed out loud at that. Cheers

[Tandem Rider]

I just read the manifesto of the ex cop in LA and in it he mentions sharing the road with cyclists and says he'll be happy to if they can at least do the speed limit.

I might be mistaken here, but when I last passed the drivers test the speed limit was the MAXIMUM allowed speed, not the minimum required.

Although some limited access interstate highways have a minimum posted speed, I haven't ridden on one yet.

[tchapman]

Here's an interesting observation. I ride/commute about 30 miles a day, year round, ride the same route, share the same rode with the same drivers... 90 percent of the drivers I share the rode with are cautious and basically exercise good manners, it's the other 10 percent that make me wonder what the heck are they thinking when they pass too close or exhibit other adverse behavior. Then I started to observe a correlation, I have an excellent olfactory system, and most if not all the bad actors were smokers... Not much I can do with this bit of information since I can't smell them coming, but I tought you all might be interested...

[William]

Somewhat correct. Road cyclists like to whine not fight.

Well, most anyway.;)





William

[cat6]

The story takes place on the planet Grool, a planet inhabited by mostly short, anthropomorphous felines. The idyllic and mundane lifestyle of the feline aliens is interrupted when an alien invader known as Kat of Nine Tails kidnaps Grool's sentient populace, inadvertently leaving one of them, Squeak, behind. Shortly after, Squeak encounters a human boy known only as Bubble who agrees to rescue Squeak's captured populace.

[William]

Impeding my progress while playing De Camptown Races....grrrrr:butt:



;)
William

[zap]

it doesn't actually take much to slow down and WAIT until it's safe to overtake...



That requires intelligence.

[oldpotatoe]

That doesn't make much sense when you get harassed or assaulted when you are simply riding along on the side of the road obeying the law which happens all too frequently. I think it's more that drivers feel we are in their way. They brake the rules just as much as cyclist do too.

Not true, IMHO. How many cars do you see run red lights?

VERY seldom, in my experience but I see it almost every day from cyclists here in the republic.

We are our own worse enemy, and w/o fail, when on a bike, when I say, 'hey cyclists, you ought to stop at red lights', I receive the same reply, "F__k YOU, mind your own business!", type thing.

Car drivers see cyclists(many 'commuters', pant leg rolled up, as if they are somehow 'special' cuz they are cycling rather than driving) flaunt the laws they follow, so they are pissed.

[William]

Not true, IMHO. How many cars do you see run red lights?

VERY seldom, in my experience but I see it almost every day from cyclists here in the republic.

We are our own worse enemy, and w/o fail, when on a bike, when I say, 'hey cyclists, you ought to stop at red lights', I receive the same reply, "F__k YOU, mind your own business!", type thing.

Car drivers see cyclists(many 'commuters', pant leg rolled up, as if they are somehow 'special' cuz they are cycling rather than driving) flaunt the laws they follow, so they are pissed.

I used to always say this about Portland as well....and Portland is a very bike friendly city. One of my coworkers used to complain about cyclists running stop lights and signs, going the wrong way on one way streets, and blasting from street to sidewalk to street in navigating traffic. I would try to argue that not all cyclists are like that, but then when I would be driving around PDX I would see what he was talking about. It effin pissed me off to no end. You can try to talk to non riders all you want about cyclists who obey laws, but it's going to be the bone head riders who ignore the laws that they will remember.

Unfortunately, when talking about cyclists, it's our own that is the biggest obstacle to getting respect from the non riding public.






William

[malcolm]

I just read the manifesto of the ex cop in LA and in it he mentions sharing the road with cyclists and says he'll be happy to if they can at least do the speed limit.


Wow, I didn't post this because I agreed with him. I simply posted it because I found it interesting that a guy posting his manifesto and likely his last statement to society at large chose to mention cycling and in a negative fashion. The fact that this was on his mind as deranged as it may be I think is telling.

[oldpotatoe]

I just read the manifesto of the ex cop in LA and in it he mentions sharing the road with cyclists and says he'll be happy to if they can at least do the speed limit.

dead ex-cop. Assumed he wouldn't get out of there alive, one way or another. Sorry to see he was a shipmate(in the USN).

[Elefantino]

It's Lance's fault.

Wait ... hear me out. Before Lance, there was little cycling on TV. Before Lance, real men had their own TV channel, The Outdoor Life Network. It was Bill Dance and bull riding 24/7. Then came Lance. Suddenly, OLN had to share prime time with cyclists. Suddenly, most of the fishing and bull-riding shows had disappeared and Bill Dance could only be found during infomercial time. And just as suddenly, OLN discovered that broadcasting competitive sports was more lucrative than broadcasting fishing, so it became Versus, and what prime time wasn't spent on cycling was spent on hockey, which isn't even an American sport like fishing or bull riding. And then it became NBC Sports Network, with a bunch of anti-American stoners doing halfpipe snowboarding and Euro trash with their skiing and figure skating and ... well, you get the picture. What once had been a channel you could pour yourself a Jack to had become the channel for people who drank Molson, Natty or, worse, something called "recovery drink" (which used to be known to OLN watchers as "strong coffee").

So, in search of a villain for the demise of their beloved OLN, angry people in large pickup trucks took their frustrations out on Lance — or anyone who looked like him. And because Lance's rocket-fueled success exponentially increased the number of cyclists on the road, there were more and more on-the-road reminders for these diesel-driving relics of a lost America to hate at best or, at worst, to use as targets. And because it seemed OK that these Ford-tough, like-a-rock people were seething, the seethe spread to less violent forms of the driving public. Soon, it hating cyclists became mainstream.

In essence, then, Lance ruined it for everyone.

Or not.

[flydhest]

How many cyclists do you see speeding? Very few in my experience but te vast majority of cars do. Just about Every study if traffic death cites speed as an important factor. Drivers regularly break the law with impunity. The "we are our own worst enemy" is a canard. Even if it were true,which it isn't, how would it be a reasonable explanation for the aggression and assault and vitriol of drivers but for the fact that drivers (by virtue of all being people) are generally a$$holes.

[oldpotatoe]

How many cyclists do you see speeding? Very few in my experience but te vast majority of cars do. Just about Every study if traffic death cites speed as an important factor. Drivers regularly break the law with impunity. The "we are our own worst enemy" is a canard. Even if it were true,which it isn't, how would it be a reasonable explanation for the aggression and assault and vitriol of drivers but for the fact that drivers (by virtue of all being people) are generally a$$holes.

That's the canard, IMHO.

If a cyclist could speed in a 35 MPH zone, I'll bet he would, because as I mentioned, most seem to think they are 'special', and since they cycle, can do whatever they want on the CITY'S streets.

[William]

How many cyclists do you see speeding? Very few in my experience but te vast majority of cars do. Just about Every study if traffic death cites speed as an important factor. Drivers regularly break the law with impunity. The "we are our own worst enemy" is a canard. Even if it were true,which it isn't, how would it be a reasonable explanation for the aggression and assault and vitriol of drivers but for the fact that drivers (by virtue of all being people) are generally a$$holes.

Regarding my own comments, I wasn't addressing overt assault and physical aggression. I was pointing out the bad wrap cyclists get overall. A very large part of that is caused by cyclists themselves.

Aggression from drivers is likely a combo of isolation, protection,and flight an auto conveys coupled with personal issues that manifests itself against a perceived easy target/scapegoat.






William

[AgilisMerlin]

what a strange thread.

[Rada]

Not true, IMHO. How many cars do you see run red lights?

VERY seldom, in my experience but I see it almost every day from cyclists here in the republic.

We are our own worse enemy, and w/o fail, when on a bike, when I say, 'hey cyclists, you ought to stop at red lights', I receive the same reply, "F__k YOU, mind your own business!", type thing.

Car drivers see cyclists(many 'commuters', pant leg rolled up, as if they are somehow 'special' cuz they are cycling rather than driving) flaunt the laws they follow, so they are pissed.

Go to any major intersection in my small city and you will see plenty of people going through red lights from the left turn only lanes. Often multiple cars will roll through these.

Personally I think there are a number of people who get into a car pissed and the slightest real or perceived impediment to their time sets them off. Cyclist get a bigger share of ire simply because they "are not one of us". Get the mob mentality going and look out. People always prefer to point the finger at someone else and those gd cyclist make an easy target.

[zap]

The "we are our own worst enemy" is a canard.

Agreed.

As a motorist, I would say that I see roughly 90% of motorists break the law. The issue at hand is that motorists are in control of a weapon that can cause significant harm and by default, have far greater responsibility.

Cyclists (many who are motorists) break the law as well. However, the impact that a cyclists has is largely on him/herself. Cyclist runs a red light, well, chances go up that cyclist won't see anything ever again 2 seconds later. Tough on the motorist if they do hit a cyclist but chances are very good that there won't be a scratch on them.

The larger issue in the USA is that motorists in the USA lack education, are impatient and most important, consider cyclists to be young rebels.

By the way, I would have written the above pre Lance.

[zap]

what a strange thread.

These always are.

I put it down to.........oh hell..........I prefer to do it in person.

[flydhest]

That's the canard, IMHO.

If a cyclist could speed in a 35 MPH zone, I'll bet he would, because as I mentioned, most seem to think they are 'special', and since they cycle, can do whatever they want on the CITY'S streets.

Maybe cyclists would, but, as the saying goes, if my uncle were a woman, he'd be my aunt. Having just driven my wife to work and come home (she broke her toe) I can say definitively that drivers in NW Washington think that rules don't really apply to then, either. Running red lights (here, it is illegal to even start on a yellow) happened at each and every intersection. More would have, it appeared, but for the other cars already in the intersection.

I am not denying that cyclists are often scofflaws. I am only saying that the assholicism is pandemic. As a result, the self-inflicted wound view of the world only works if one concedes that drivers are massively hypocritical in taking that view of cyclists. If we agree on that, then fine.

[Kirk007]

Increase the density of rats in a maze and social mores break down. Welcome to our cities. Cars, cyclists - equal opportunity to be an ass.

I see the same conduct, discussed by Old Potato in the Republic of Boulder and by William in Portland, here in Seattle and in Eugene. Most typically that I witness the scofflaw cyclists are young and arrogant. Eugene seemed to have a high proportion of ones on fixies riding in the dark without any lights in rainy conditions when the likelihood of being seen by a driver temporarily distracted is very low. I think of those addled youths as probable future victims of Darwins law.

There is that type in Seattle, but I think the asshole/without a clue drivers far outnumber the asshole cyclists.

Maybe this all seems more outrageous in cities like Portland and Seattle as there used to be this fiction of politeness and civility that still resonates with folks who have been here for a long time. I wonder if its not safer in places like NYC where the rules there are no rules attitude seems generally understood and followed by cyclists, drivers and pedestrians.

[tchapman]

what a strange thread.

Yes, and I like the rambling commentary it stimulates - keep it going folks!

[pinkshogun]

on the streets as in prison (where i work not live) the bully principle applies. the bigger prey on the smaller

[Climb01742]

what are 'cyclists' and 'drivers' before they are 'cyclists' and 'drivers'?

people. and some % of people go through life responsibly and thoughtfully. and some % (thankfully a smaller %) go through life selfishly and thoughtlessly.

if you could follow a cyclist who does dumb ***** out on the road, or follow a driver who drives angrily and aggressively, you'd find, i would bet, someone who often acts the same way in the other parts of their life.

i don't think the true issue is really about cyclists or drivers (those are just tools used to manifest a personality or psyche). the true issue is some folks simply behave badly and the rest of us intersect with their behavior out on a road.

[flydhest]

what are 'cyclists' and 'drivers' before they are 'cyclists' and 'drivers'?

people. and some % of people go through life responsibly and thoughtfully. and some % (thankfully a smaller %) go through life selfishly and thoughtlessly.

if you could follow a cyclist who does dumb ***** out on the road, or follow a driver who drives angrily and aggressively, you'd find, i would bet, someone who often acts the same way in the other parts of their life.

i don't think the true issue is really about cyclists or drivers (those are just tools used to manifest a personality or psyche). the true issue is some folks simply behave badly and the rest of us intersect with their behavior out on a road.

I agree except that I think you have your ratios wrong. I personally think that the vast majority of people suck.

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe cyclists would, but, as the saying goes, if my uncle were a woman, he'd be my aunt. Having just driven my wife to work and come home (she broke her toe) I can say definitively that drivers in NW Washington think that rules don't really apply to then, either. Running red lights (here, it is illegal to even start on a yellow) happened at each and every intersection. More would have, it appeared, but for the other cars already in the intersection.

I am not denying that cyclists are often scofflaws. I am only saying that the assholicism is pandemic. As a result, the self-inflicted wound view of the world only works if one concedes that drivers are massively hypocritical in taking that view of cyclists. If we agree on that, then fine.

I think the 'answer' is each of us 'cyclists', individually, should always strive to obey the traffic laws when riding our bicycle but as I have seen in the past, more than a few 'cyclists' on this forum will argue that it's OK to run a red light and 'take the lane', even in very car-busy conditions.

So, I don't get it. I can't make that car driver NOT run a red light or speed but I can attempt to not give them a reason to be pissed at cyclists.

[shovelhd]

'take the lane', even in very car-busy conditions.


I find this topic interesting. There's taking the lane because you can, and taking the lane because you have to. I'm talking about riding or commuting where there is traffic to deal with.

I'll take the lane, by pointing at the lane and moving over after the closest cars have passed, if, for example:

- there are parked cars on the shoulder
- I am coming to a split and want the left fork
- there is a single lane culvert/bridge/overpass ahead

I'll slow to let a group of cars pass but I will take the lane and filter in where it makes sense. I do not stop to let all the traffic pass.

OP approved, or am I an a$$hole?

[malcolm]

I find this topic interesting. There's taking the lane because you can, and taking the lane because you have to. I'm talking about riding or commuting where there is traffic to deal with.

I'll take the lane, by pointing at the lane and moving over after the closest cars have passed, if, for example:

- there are parked cars on the shoulder
- I am coming to a split and want the left fork
- there is a single lane culvert/bridge/overpass ahead

I'll slow to let a group of cars pass but I will take the lane and filter in where it makes sense. I do not stop to let all the traffic pass.

OP approved, or am I an a$$hole?

I suspect you are an a$$hole, just because you are a grown man riding a bike probably in spandex!! smiley (I don't know how to work emoticons)

Sounds basically like what I do when I ride in traffic. On a road with no shoulder and traffic I try to share as much as I can but sometimes for everyone's safety you have to assume the lane.

I now spend most of the time on my mtn bike. It lets me get back to what I ride a bike for in the first place.

[oldpotatoe]

I find this topic interesting. There's taking the lane because you can, and taking the lane because you have to. I'm talking about riding or commuting where there is traffic to deal with.

I'll take the lane, by pointing at the lane and moving over after the closest cars have passed, if, for example:

- there are parked cars on the shoulder
- I am coming to a split and want the left fork
- there is a single lane culvert/bridge/overpass ahead

I'll slow to let a group of cars pass but I will take the lane and filter in where it makes sense. I do not stop to let all the traffic pass.

OP approved, or am I an a$$hole?

I'm talking about somebody, don't remember who, who railed about how it was his 'right' to ride in the middle of the lane, car drivers be damned.

I agree with you, 'taking the lane' when ya gotta is what a reasonable cyclist does.

[zap]

I think the 'answer' is each of us 'cyclists', individually, should always strive to obey the traffic laws when riding our bicycle but as I have seen in the past, more than a few 'cyclists' on this forum will argue that it's OK to run a red light and 'take the lane', even in very car-busy conditions.

So, I don't get it. I can't make that car driver NOT run a red light or speed but I can attempt to not give them a reason to be pissed at cyclists.

I might very well be wrong, but as I have written here often, it will not matter.

I repeat, every cyclist can obey every motoring/cycling law in 7,000 odd jurisdictions in the USA and motorists will still be annoyed with having to share the road.

I'm not jesus yet motorists expect me to part yard waste deposited in a parking lane and ride on through versus going into "their" lane to avoid said waste.

There are times when it is safer for cyclists to disobey motoring laws in the name of personal safety.......our local PD has accepted some cycling maneuvers that many motorists find objectionable.

[shovelhd]

Agreed, we are an annoyance, and they don't want to share. The key is to keep the annoyance to a minimum and share responsibly.

[soulspinner]

Agreed.

As a motorist, I would say that I see roughly 90% of motorists break the law. The issue at hand is that motorists are in control of a weapon that can cause significant harm and by default, have far greater responsibility.

Cyclists (many who are motorists) break the law as well. However, the impact that a cyclists has is largely on him/herself. Cyclist runs a red light, well, chances go up that cyclist won't see anything ever again 2 seconds later. Tough on the motorist if they do hit a cyclist but chances are very good that there won't be a scratch on them.

The larger issue in the USA is that motorists in the USA lack education, are impatient and most important, consider cyclists to be young rebels.

By the way, I would have written the above pre Lance.

Well said