OT: I fear no speed traps or police Hybrid owners rejoice

[Smiley]

Well I wanted to follow up with you my favorite formumites about my 4 month +6000 mile experiance behind the wheel of a Ford C Max Hybrid.
This is the car that has started a few lawsuits about the claimed 47/47/47 mpg epa estimates.
I picked up my C Max based on the mileage claims but equally based on the ergonomics of this well put together car. My last car was a Ford Edge so comming from a bigger CUV I did not want to down size to an econo box vehicle plus I really always liked how I got better visability from sitting taller in my CUV. The Ford C Max is a class of car called the MAV or Multi Activity Vehicle. It allows me better visability than its cousin the Ford Focus and slightly less than the other Ford its platform is built on the Ford Escape.
I picked up the car late September and entering the colder months of the year where battery power is used for the heater and Hybrids don't do as well in colder weather.
I am not getting the average claimed mileage but right now my car computer is stating an average of 40.6 mpg on 6100 miles driven. I am also more accurately tracking my miles on Fuelly under the name Road Warrior http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/c-max if you care to see what actual reported figures by real owners are, unfortunately I started inputting data in December when I did not put in my frst 6 tanks of gas as colder weather will drive my numbers lower. The tank I am on now I am at an average of 43.5 mpg with around 350 miles on it. I am getting around approx. 500 miles to a 12.5 gallon fill up. I fill up now about half as much as I used too.

Most importantly I normally take 2 passengers along with me when I go to visit clients and most are impressed with the room and comfort of the back seat and front passenger seat. My 59 cm frame fits in the rear with the seats folded down flat and that too was very important to me.

To drive a Hybrid is to drive at the posted speed limits and to use Eco Cruise control mode and to put your mind into Island time and allow an extra 5-10 minutes to get there since you won't be going over the posted speed limits.

With Car Show season around the country now is a good time to check out the Ford C Max and see what American technology is all about. I love this car and glad I own it and as far as milage claims go remember YMMY is always the key as Fuelly will show you that some folks really know how to hypermile it and get +50 mpg. Enjoy

[djg]

Cool Smiley, seems as if you're happy with the choice.

But what the heck is a Multi Activity Vehicle? You can drive it or park it?

[93legendti]

Did you buy or lease?

[thwart]

Yeah, our Prius V's mileage has dipped a bit from the ~ 50 mpg we were getting this summer.

Glad to hear you're lovin' the car. Sounds like Ford has produced a worthy competitor in the hybrid car battle.

'Tis the wave of the future... and the 'Island time' mindset is one of the un-recognized benefits, IMO.

[Smiley]

Did you buy or lease?

BUY since I keep my cars over the 100,000 mile threshold

[bikinchris]

I can see where people woudl complain about mileage lower than the EPA estimate. Notice I said ESTIMATE. But a lawsuit because the mileage doesn't live up to a laboratory estimate? sounds like the internet at work. I could see that if the car was extimated at 60mpg and got 30, but since you often get pretty close on real roads and carry passengers at the same time, makes me think the lawsuit has no merit.

[Smiley]

I can see where people woudl complain about mileage lower than the EPA estimate. Notice I said ESTIMATE. But a lawsuit because the mileage doesn't live up to a laboratory estimate? sounds like the internet at work. I could see that if the car was extimated at 60mpg and got 30, but since you often get pretty close on real roads and carry passengers at the same time, makes me think the lawsuit has no merit.

The C Max can go in EV Mode up to 62 mph and the hwy test by EPA is set at speeds of 55 MPH on a dyno with no wind or hills. Ford when they developed this car knew the EPA test inside out and they built the car with Lithium Ion batteries and switch gear to carry the electric motor to this exact speed. So yeah they knew they would beat the test.

I was wondering how this car could beat a Prius V with:

A bigger frontal resisitance
Heavier car
More hp

and exceed a Prius V by 5 mpg did not make sense. Anyway the thing I like about this car is IT HAS POWER at 188 hp combined it can "gettie up" and go.

Drive it hard which I have done and you'll only average about 35-37 mpg combined but go gently and you will be over 40 mpg. The end result is it will cost you about 100-120 bucks more for gas per year with that loss of 7 -10 mpg if you believe the EPA test.

The lawsuit will hinge on what they knew to be the truth in real world mileage and not if they met the test cause unlike Huyndai who fuged their test Ford BEAT the test proceedures by better engineering, The publicity sure has NOT slowed sales.

[DreaminJohn]

Respect, Smiley. Mucho respect.

I drive the Garden State Parkway and NJ Turnpike to work several times per week. I cannot tell you how many time I am passed by a Prius doing 80 mph+.

My opinion on the topic of hybrids varies greatly from yours but I'm honestly very impressed. You walk your walk and that deserves recognition in this day and age.

[weiwentg]

I can see where people woudl complain about mileage lower than the EPA estimate. Notice I said ESTIMATE. But a lawsuit because the mileage doesn't live up to a laboratory estimate? sounds like the internet at work. I could see that if the car was extimated at 60mpg and got 30, but since you often get pretty close on real roads and carry passengers at the same time, makes me think the lawsuit has no merit.

If you accelerate slowly, coast up to red lights, stay around 60-65 mph on the highway, you can usually meet the EPA estimate. Most Americans have lead feet, though, so of course they won't hit the EPA estimates.

[Smiley]

Respect, Smiley. Mucho respect.

I drive the Garden State Parkway and NJ Turnpike to work several times per week. I cannot tell you how many time I am passed by a Prius doing 80 mph+.

My opinion on the topic of hybrids varies greatly from yours but I'm honestly very impressed. You walk your walk and that deserves recognition in this day and age.

If dude is driving a Prius at 80 that engine is a buzz cause that car does not pack alot of hp to start with, reminds me of my old college days when we drove VW beattles at those speeds , we got them going that fast by flooring the acellerator and trying never to slow down.

This begs the question WHY by a hybrid and drive it like a gas car??

[thwart]

This begs the question WHY buy a hybrid and drive it like a gas car??

Some folks like to do 80 mph and still get ~ 38 mpg... :rolleyes:

[bikinchris]

If you accelerate slowly, coast up to red lights, stay around 60-65 mph on the highway, you can usually meet the EPA estimate. Most Americans have lead feet, though, so of course they won't hit the EPA estimates.

Yes, your average driver in the US will never get anywhere near the rated MPG of anything. I see dirvers every day who just don't get the idea of timed lights. They take off from a light and have to stop at every light after. If they woudl drive the speed limit (like I do) they would make every light and double their fuel economy.
Which reminds me of a taxi ride we took once from the harbor to our hotel in Vancouver. The car was a prius and the driver never drove anything less than wide open throttle the whole trip. It was brake, WOT, brake, WOT the whole way. I laughed to myself and thought that it was a waste of money to use that car. I rented a Prius for the next two days and made about 60mpg (converted) over two days of rental. I am SURE I could get a C Max to make it's rated MPG if the weather was favorable. I don't drive anything hard anymore unless it is needed to merge.

[bikinchris]

Some folks like to do 80 mph and still get ~ 38 mpg... :rolleyes:

I know a guy who gets 40+ MPG from his turbo diesel Volkswagen driving 80+mph.

[93legendti]

BUY since I keep my cars over the 100,000 mile threshold

How many years does that end up for you? 6-8?

[rugbysecondrow]

Smiley,

I am not certain if this is the same vehicle that you have, but I know a few people who drive the C-Max and the big complain is the trunk space.

Is this how yours is?

[Smiley]

Smiley,

I am not certain if this is the same vehicle that you have, but I know a few people who drive the C-Max and the big complain is the trunk space.

Is this how yours is?

NO that is the C Max Energi with the extended battery pack and not the standard C Max, mine has a raised floor but not like that one. What is nice about what Ford did is they placed the batteries over the rear axel for better weight distribution in bad weather too.

[Smiley]

How many years does that end up for you? 6-8?

when I drove more I'd do 100,000 miles in +4 years but since I work from home now and everything is done via computers anymore I am guessing this is a +8 year proposition which I like alot.

[sjbraun]

Rugby,

I think that s a photo of the C-Max energy, the plug-in variant.

That's the extra battery taking up so much room in the luggage area.

[CAAD]

Why won't ford just give the cmax a small diesel engine and ditch the battery? How about hydrogen power? Hope they make those a reality in 10 years or so. No more batteries! Power plants are filthy. Ford is hitting home runs with all there cars. The Mustang seems kinda out of place with there current lineup. We are looking at the 2.0t escape. Great little car and well equipped.

[alancw3]

Motor week real world driving test of the c-max got 39mpg. they liked the car but felt that the mileage was way below what ford claimed.

i tried to find out what the warranty was on the battery from the ford website. do know know the what the battery warranty is? also what a battery costs for the car and estimated life? that all has to be figured into the overall cost of ownership. i once read that a replacement battery for a prius is like $1500. don't know the toyota battery warranty either. have any of the prius owners here had to replace a battery yet?

anyway, good luck with the car. glad you like it and that the bike fits.

[Smiley]

Motor week real world driving test of the c-max got 39mpg. they liked the car but felt that the mileage was way below what ford claimed.

i tried to find out what the warranty was on the battery from the ford website. do know know the what the battery warranty is? also what a battery costs for the car and estimated life? that all has to be figured into the overall cost of ownership. i once read that a replacement battery for a prius is like $1500. don't know the toyota battery warranty either. have any of the prius owners here had to replace a battery yet?

anyway, good luck with the car. glad you like it and that the bike fits.

The warranty on the Hybrid drive train is 8 years and 100,000 miles, not just the battery. I checked with MANY reputable service advisors in the area and they recall no battery change outs on the old Ford Hybrid's.

[rugbysecondrow]

Rugby,

I think that s a photo of the C-Max energy, the plug-in variant.

That's the extra battery taking up so much room in the luggage area.

Thanks Steve and Smiley.

I don't know much about these cars except that the owners seem to like them quite a bit.

[saab2000]

My brother likes his Camry hybrid (newest version) but it does take a huge hit on trunk space and the rear seat does not fold down, making it less likely for me as a cyclist. But the C-Max looks reasonable. real world mileage looks similar. He gets just under 40 MPG in mostly city driving around Arlington, VA.

[Chance]

A large part of this fuel-economy discrepancy in my opinion is that EPA tests don’t simulate actual driving at highway speeds. Even their “high speed” test average 48 MPH, so if we drove a hybrid at a constant 70 MPG like is typical on a highway road trip, the aerodynamic drag is far greater, making the engine work a lot harder. And the hybrid system’s benefit, over a long period, could likely even be negative because of all the extra weight.

Can’t blame Ford for rating their cars per the “EPA standard”. Drivers just need to understand what the rating means relative to real-world conditions and driving needs. It would be nice to have a MPG rating at a constant 70 MPG, but that would make hybrids look less advantageous relative to other less-expensive options. And thus why our government won’t support such a rating.

The tests almost seem rigged to benefit hybrids. How many people drive with all these starts and stops on the highway?

City test:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/images/ftpdds.gif


Highway test:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/images/hwfetdds.gif


High speed test:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/images/us06dds.gif

[Chance]

If dude is driving a Prius at 80 that engine is a buzz cause that car does not pack alot of hp to start with, reminds me of my old college days when we drove VW beattles at those speeds , we got them going that fast by flooring the acellerator and trying never to slow down.

This begs the question WHY by a hybrid and drive it like a gas car??

Aren't most hybrids "gas cars"?

We are starting to see a few plug-ins now, but their numbers are very small compared to normal hybrids which get 100 percent of their energy from gasoline. If the idea is that we should drive hybrids slower to reduce fuel consumption then the same can be said of normal gas cars too. Drive a Honda Civic slower and it too gets much better MPG.;)

[Smiley]

Aren't most hybrids "gas cars"?

We are starting to see a few plug-ins now, but their numbers are very small compared to normal hybrids which get 100 percent of their energy from gasoline. If the idea is that we should drive hybrids slower to reduce fuel consumption then the same can be said of normal gas cars too. Drive a Honda Civic slower and it too gets much better MPG.;)

Chance,
The key in driving a Hybrid is to keep it in EV mode. The reason my car makes up on its hwy defficiencies from an mpg standpoint is when I drive in city traffic since I can feather the accelerator and keep it on the electric motor. That is what kills a gas car in city stop and go traffic. You drive any car on the hwy at +65 mph and they all relay on their gas engines negating all benefits.

I suggest a quick review of actual crivers and theur cars at www.fuelly.com and see what real word drivers are getting. You'll see the guys getting great numbers drive mostly city on hybrids.

[Chance]

Chance,
The key in driving a Hybrid is to keep it in EV mode. The reason my car makes up on its hwy defficiencies from an mpg standpoint is when I drive in city traffic since I can feather the accelerator and keep it on the electric motor. That is what kills a gas car in city stop and go traffic. You drive any car on the hwy at +65 mph and they all relay on their gas engines negating all benefits.

I suggest a quick review of actual crivers and theur cars at www.fuelly.com and see what real word drivers are getting. You'll see the guys getting great numbers drive mostly city on hybrids.

No doubt Smiley. Not arguing pro or con. Just stating what is (in my opinion of course).

You're right that low-speed driving is where hybrids shine. To me that means primarily city driving. That's when the engine and energy-storage system operates at best efficiency compared to "normal" gasoline cars.

However, in all fairness to those that are not getting EPA ratings, it's stupid in my estimation to have a highway rating based on an average of 48 MPH and 8 stops down to zero in an 8 mile distance. Maybe you guys in the northeast that drive in congested areas would consider that "highway" driving, but here in Texas highway driving in getting on an Interstate at 75 to 80 MPH (or else get run over) for hours at a time. And at that speed the EV part of the system does very little other than add weight.

Again, not pro or con regarding Hybrids. Just like honesty and the EPA is not giving it to us because of a hidden agenda to make Hybrids look better than they are in some conditions.

[zap]

EPA also uses 100% gasoline for their tests.

Consumers in most area's cannot get gasoline without 10% ethanol added thus reducing real mileage that little bit more.