Dura Ace 9000: Not Happy.

[Jeff N.]

Last weekend I installed an entire Dura Ace 9000 group on my Lynskey level 4 Ti frame. It may be early, but so far I'm not all that fond of this group. The front derailleur is quite a hassle to get set up properly, (there's this support bolt thingy...can't understand why you'd need such a thing) but even then, the drive train is quite inexplicably noisy. I've adjusted, adjusted and REadjusted about everything, and although it shifts OK, there's more drive train noise than I've heretofore ever been subjected to, and I've built dozens of frames up with all kinds of groups. I'm going to take the bike to a local wrench that I trust and have him monkey with it in hopes that I'm doing something wrong, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what the hell it might be.:mad: Jeff N.

[thirdgenbird]

That is the first report I've seen that wasnt glowing. What did you replace?

[AgilisMerlin]

use wax

ice wax etc.

gums up on pulleys and rings, but silence is priceless

enjoy the group

[vqdriver]

Keep at it. It was noisy for me at first as well. You just have to monkey with it. Each brand seems to "like" different setups.

[mike p]

Jeff, something's wrong. I've ridden two bikes with the full group set and I think it's by far the best group I've ever ridden! Also quiet as a church mouse! Get it ck'd out!

Mike

[Ken Robb]

I don't know who you like but Kevin at California Bicycles in La Jolla is as good as they get.

[RedRider]

I suspect your problem is with the setup of the front derailleur. It has completely new design and a much increased cable pull ratio. The braze-on has a support bolt where it touches the frame for more support when shifting. The patch you got in the package should be placed between the bolt and the frame to protect the finish.
The cable anchor point swings a wide arch since the arm in much longer than the 7900. You will need to use the Mode Converter which will tell you which position to route the cable. Each frame is different and where the cable exits the frame will determine the position.
Shimano says the 11 speed group components are not compatible with any 10sp parts.
What wheel/hub are you using? Can the freehub body take an 11sp cassette?

[oldpotatoe]

Last weekend I installed an entire Dura Ace 9000 group on my Lynskey level 4 Ti frame. It may be early, but so far I'm not all that fond of this group. The front derailleur is quite a hassle to get set up properly, (there's this support bolt thingy...can't understand why you'd need such a thing) but even then, the drive train is quite inexplicably noisy. I've adjusted, adjusted and REadjusted about everything, and although it shifts OK, there's more drive train noise than I've heretofore ever been subjected to, and I've built dozens of frames up with all kinds of groups. I'm going to take the bike to a local wrench that I trust and have him monkey with it in hopes that I'm doing something wrong, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what the hell it might be.:mad: Jeff N.

Assuming you are using a 11s cogset/chain.

FD has a stiffener that pushes against the frame, why the supplied wee plates, a flat one and curved one.

Also the plastic thing with the FD that tells you how to route the FD cable thru the plate and the orientation of the fixing plate.

The ones I have seen are very quiet.

Not trying to tell ya anything but 11s stuff is really close together, der hanger straight?

[TimD]

I haven't seen it but this
It has completely new design and a much increased cable pull ratio. The braze-on has a support bolt where it touches the frame for more support when shifting. The patch you got in the package should be placed between the bolt and the frame to protect the finish.
sounds like either an optimization too far or a design failure, I'm not sure which. Probably just fine if one has a team mechanic to fettle one's bike - and I am not one to shy away from building or maintaining a bike.

This post is free and has equivalent value :)

[oldpotatoe]

I haven't seen it but this
It has completely new design and a much increased cable pull ratio. The braze-on has a support bolt where it touches the frame for more support when shifting. The patch you got in the package should be placed between the bolt and the frame to protect the finish.
sounds like either an optimization too far or a design failure, I'm not sure which. Probably just fine if one has a team mechanic to fettle one's bike - and I am not one to shy away from building or maintaining a bike.

This post is free and has equivalent value :)

Actually it's to make the FD action stiffer because so many brazeons, particularly on a lot of carbon frames, flex a lot. It's really no big deal. A little metal stick on thing, once the FD is where you want it, you screw the little post to touch the plate. Not complicated at all.

[Jeff N.]

I suspect your problem is with the setup of the front derailleur. It has completely new design and a much increased cable pull ratio. The braze-on has a support bolt where it touches the frame for more support when shifting. The patch you got in the package should be placed between the bolt and the frame to protect the finish.
The cable anchor point swings a wide arch since the arm in much longer than the 7900. You will need to use the Mode Converter which will tell you which position to route the cable. Each frame is different and where the cable exits the frame will determine the position.
Shimano says the 11 speed group components are not compatible with any 10sp parts.
What wheel/hub are you using? Can the freehub body take an 11sp cassette?I'm using DA9000 11-25T 11-speed cassette on Mavic K-10 Ksyriums (the cassette fits perfectly! Tightens up perfectly and all that). I've tightened the FD support bolt against the supplied protector I stuck to the seat tube (I think that little protector is more for carbon frame protection...my frame is Ti, but I used it anyway.) and all that. I've done everything, believe me. I plan on taking it in and have it checked. Thanks for the replies. It's obviously something I'm doing (or not doing). Jeff N.

[Jeff N.]

that is the first report i've seen that wasnt glowing. What did you replace?da-7900.

[Jeff N.]

I don't know who you like but Kevin at California Bicycles in La Jolla is as good as they get.

I may check him out. Thanks, Ken.

[Chance]

Last weekend I installed an entire Dura Ace 9000 group on my Lynskey level 4 Ti frame. It may be early, but so far I'm not all that fond of this group. The front derailleur is quite a hassle to get set up properly, (there's this support bolt thingy...can't understand why you'd need such a thing) but even then, the drive train is quite inexplicably noisy. I've adjusted, adjusted and REadjusted about everything, and although it shifts OK, there's more drive train noise than I've heretofore ever been subjected to, and I've built dozens of frames up with all kinds of groups. I'm going to take the bike to a local wrench that I trust and have him monkey with it in hopes that I'm doing something wrong, but for the life of me, I can't figure out what the hell it might be.:mad: Jeff N.

Although the front derailleur may be a hassle to adjust, it’s not likely the cause of the noise, right? You should be able to see the chain rub the derailleur if that were the case. Otherwise there isn't much to make noise.

For me any hard-to-find noise on a new group usually comes from the rear derailleur. Would focus on that area. Also, since your bike was preexisting, is there any chance that the derailleur hanger may not be perfectly straight/aligned? Have you laid the bike over (crashed???) at any time? Should also check the hanger if you can’t find the noise. A rear derailleur out of true can make a lot of noise in my experience.

[shovelhd]

Just because the cassette fits perfectly doesn't mean that the spacing is right.

[Jeff N.]

This AM I got up early and tried one more thing...I loosened the FD cable and clamp, moved the FD up the seat tube a few mm's, realigned it with the chainring and retightened. Rode it HARD coming into work this AM. And guess freakin' what? NOISE GONE!:hello: So obviously, I had the FD positioned a bit too close to the chainring. Thanks for all your replies/advice. This problem was indeed driving me nuts! I'm taking the bike to do a century (Tour de Palm Springs) this weekend. I think I have it right now. Jeff N.

[pbarry]

:banana::banana::banana:

[dvs cycles]

So is all quiet still?

[zuzu27]

Obviously, like a lot of guys have pointed out...you definitely have a setup issue.

I would also highly recommend using a chain lube like the Finish Line Ceramic Wet Lube.
http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/ceramic_wet_lube.htm

A friend turned me on to it...it's no BS...the stuff is incredibly slick...and it makes the chain silent.

-JP

[Jeff N.]

All is well. All quiet now.

[ShoMyOFace]

What chain are you using? I believe the 9000 chain can be run either way, but former were direction specific

[Jeff N.]

I thought about that, but I don't know if it's direction specific. I don't believe it is.

[nooneline]

All is well. All quiet now.

Do you like the group, now?

[Jeff N.]

I like it just fine! To be honest, though, I like Campy Super Record more.

[thirdgenbird]

I like it just fine! To be honest, though, I like Campy Super Record more.

Any specific reason or is it one of those unexplainable things?

[Jeff N.]

IMO, Super Record just seems smoother, more immediate in it's response to input, easier to set up, more precise. Looks better to boot.

[thirdgenbird]

Thanks for the comments. I haven't set up either to compare, but I agree that campy looks better.

[buddybikes]

Heard that the 9000 front shifting is outstanding, how would you compare SR to it? I am still debating about the groupo over the next few mos...

[saab2000]

Heard that the 9000 front shifting is outstanding, how would you compare SR to it? I am still debating about the groupo over the next few mos...

I've never shifted the new D/A (or any other D/A for that matter) but it's hard to imagine it being simpler or better than properly set up Campagnolo.

My old Record stuff is 4 clicks up and 4 clicks down. The new QS with the new shape shifters is 3 up and 3 down. Painless and never a missed shift.

That is not to pick on Shimano or the new 9000 group set, which is seriously interesting to me. It looks superb(e), to steal from Suntour... :rolleyes:

I could almost see buying it. Almost!

[AngryScientist]

I could almost see buying it. Almost!

saab, i'm a campy guy thru and thru, but i checked out the new 9000 stuff the other day at the bike shop, and it is simply perfect. i would but a 9000 group in a heartbeat at this stage, seriously.

[saab2000]

saab, i'm a campy guy thru and thru, but i checked out the new 9000 stuff the other day at the bike shop, and it is simply perfect. i would but a 9000 group in a heartbeat at this stage, seriously.

I would too. I just don't buy much new stuff and I can't see dropping $2500 on a new groupset. That is not a commentary on the stuff, it's a commentary on me. That it's virtually perfect is beyond reasonable question. Shimano makes excellent bicycle components. It's what I recommend to the folks I know who don't want to fiddle with their bikes, like my mother and my siblings, who just want their stuff to work.

I'm just not ready to drop the coin on a new box of stuff, but the idea is actually intriguing. I won't deny it.

[AngryScientist]

^^ oh i'm with you. the price of entry is just too high for my blood.

i guess what i really meant is that if someone were selling a 9000 groupset in about 5 years, i would buy it:)

[buddybikes]

re price: check out planet cyclery or call velomine (actually call them for quote) - don't pay over 1900 for it...

[sailorboy]

Yea, long time campy guy here but racing cross in the past few years has had me on shimano more and more. Just did a road bike with 9000 and I'm loving it. Only issue right now is lack of available wheels out there. There are some, but not every maker is up to speed, particularly if you want some aftermarket hubs built into a set e.g. king hubs.

One bonus to having both is that the campy 11 wheels/cassette I have work perfectly with the dura ace! I haven't even used the new shimano 11 speed cassette yet.

[nooneline]

The thing about 9000 that blows my mind is the front shifting. It's so good. Why? Because they put a longer lever arm on the front derailleur. Simple! Brilliant! How come nobody thought of that before? Is it that nobody was able to make a shifter that could easily pull that much cable that lightly before? I am not sure.

But it's headsmackingly simple, and a real step forward.

[sailorboy]

+1 on the noticably better front shifting.

I forgot to mention that both of my shop's wrenches also had a bit of a learning curve setting up the front der. I suppose with any new design there will be that, but they said it was pretty finicky to set up properly. Being a new design I didn't have the time or inclination to stumble through it so I left it to them.

[dvs cycles]

+1 on the noticably better front shifting.

I forgot to mention that both of my shop's wrenches also had a bit of a learning curve setting up the front der. I suppose with any new design there will be that, but they said it was pretty finicky to set up properly. Being a new design I didn't have the time or inclination to stumble through it so I left it to them.

I had the bike on the stand after each of the first few rides messing with that myself.
Took me a while to understand just what the manual was saying.
Different setup than any 7800 and older that I had used for the last 20 years.
I think when set up correct it is impossible to throw a chain to the inside with this new design.

[Jeff N.]

Yea, long time campy guy here but racing cross in the past few years has had me on shimano more and more. Just did a road bike with 9000 and I'm loving it. Only issue right now is lack of available wheels out there. There are some, but not every maker is up to speed, particularly if you want some aftermarket hubs built into a set e.g. king hubs.

One bonus to having both is that the campy 11 wheels/cassette I have work perfectly with the dura ace! I haven't even used the new shimano 11 speed cassette yet.I'm running Mavic K-10 Ksyriums with the DA 11-speed cassette, 11-25.