A (nice) Ti bike for college racing?

[cshong88]

Hi, I will be a college freshman next year, and I am looking to get a bigger bike before the school year starts. I plan on training heavily and racing for my team in college... I am a very dedicated rider, and I train a lot.

I currently ride a Trek 2300, '05, 50 cm. I am a very small guy, 5'3", 112 lbs., and I like to climb. I'm looking for a really light, climbing bike for my next ride (my current Trek weights 18.8 lbs, a lot for such a small size).

I guess my concern is that I hear there are a lot of crashes in college, and a nice bike could quickly go to waste. Also, I don't want to walk on the team with a nice bike, getting a ton of envious stares and scornful attitudes thrown at me. I've tried to convince myself to look at super-light carbon frames like Giant TCR Composite, or the Specialized E5 (aluminum), but I just can't get myself to like the looks of it. I really like the look of simple, bare, round-tube titanium (like Moots, Serotta, Seven, Merlin).

Still, I am looking for a really light bike, good for climbing and racing first and foremost...does it still make more sense to get a cheaper, carbon bike like the Giant TCR Composite for someone in my position? Should I be putting function over form as my first priority? I know the Giant is lighter and cheaper vs. the Ti frames I like (seven, Serotta, Moots), but the look is just...ugh. What are your opinions?

Thanks.

[Fixed]

bro if I were you and your bike fits keep it get some trick wheels if you need a different frame I would go with an alum. try a longer stem first i.m.h.o. :beer:

[ergott]

Ditto Fixed.

The 2300 is a nice bike.

[Kevan]

it'll probably get stolen before it's even dented. Think money before weight.

[djg]

A good set of race wheels might improve your handling and shave a pound--and an especially noticeable pound at that. You can keep the current wheels for backup and training relief. Spring for some good race tires too. If you feel comfortable and balanced on the bike you have, just keep it, at least for a season, and see how things go.

If you feel the need for a ti frame, and money is an object, search for a used one that fits right--you'll save a bundle and can build it up yourself. The typical ti frame is more likely to weather a few crashes than a really thin-walled aluminum one, and it's not as if you fold a frame every time you drop it anyway--still, things happen and there are no guarantees for that sort of thing.

[jerk]

get a legend. this has nothing to do with being practical.

jerk

[Smiley]

Don't college teams get some sort of shop sponsorship with a local LBS. And can you share with us which college you plan to attend. Our own Flydhest went to Princeton for grad school and road for their team. At least that's what he brags to me about :) Any best of luck and think USED and maybe find a steal right here on the classifieds section.

[Bill Bove]

Cheap, light and Ti, it's hard to combine all three. If you can find a used Fierte Ti that fits, your dream will have come true. Otherwise look around at some of the guys bringing in Chinise ti bikes like Habenero. They used to be around 700 bucks for an unbutted 3/25 ti frame (no fork) 561.684.8444 that was their number once, tom can get you in touch with them now.

EBAY EBAY EBAY keep looking there.

[Dr. Doofus]

if at 18 you've got the 3000 bucks for a nice Ti frame and fork, screw it, get a Legend. you'll have your lifetime bike and you'll be young and fast enough to enjoy it while you can still ride it with a proper racing setup.

if you want to climb well, take that 3000 bucks and get a power tap pro wheel, a serotta CIII or a peg 8:30, and a body fat analyzer. train your little runt arse off and get your watts/kg at 5/1 or better. then you'll be a climber and it won't matter what you ride. of course, if you're like the doof and train more than anybody you race against but still suck because of a compete lack of talent, it won't matter what you ride either.

[cshong88]

Well I would really like to get a ti frame, even used (for my own conscience)...like a used seven or moots or serotta off ebay or something...but still, will added weight be enough to make a big difference vs. getting somethign lighter, cheaper, but not ti?

And I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye if I walk up with a ti bike...even if I did get it used.

BTW, early app to Harvard

[Fixed]

bro check with ti designs he coaches a bunch of college riders in boston he should know what's in cheers :beer:

[JohnS]

Well I would really like to get a ti frame, even used (for my own conscience)...like a used seven or moots or serotta off ebay or something...but still, will added weight be enough to make a big difference vs. getting somethign lighter, cheaper, but not ti?

And I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye if I walk up with a ti bike...even if I did get it used.

BTW, early app to Harvard
Whatever Mommy and Daddy can afford.

[Dr. Doofus]

I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye



depends on whether or not you look good in your shorts

[Lifelover]

And I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye if I walk up with a ti bike...even if I did get it used.

BTW, early app to Harvard

You are worried that the folks at Harvard will think you uppity because of a Ti bike?

Don't sweat it. I meet a man on the bus ride back from Bridge to Bridge whose son rides for the Harvard team and while I don't recall which brand he said his son rode it was a top of the line bike.

Most of the kids at harvard won't even know what Ti is.

[manet]

BTW, early app to Harvard

holy cr@p, you're going to need the finest:

sand the paint off some ol'ordinary steel (read round tubed)
warhorse and then polyurethane it.

[Fixed]

bro I bet a lot of the guys will be on orbea's cheers :beer:

[Dr. Doofus]

have your 2300 repainted and topped off with pegoretti decals

take it by international

watch the jerk either

a) go ballistic

b) just walk away in disgust

[loctite]

get a legend. this has nothing to do with being practical.

jerk

and if you want to take it a step further, go bare, no decals, fly under the radar, stealth.......

[loctite]

You are worried that the folks at Harvard will think you uppity because of a Ti bike?

Don't sweat it. I meet a man on the bus ride back from Bridge to Bridge whose son rides for the Harvard team and while I don't recall which brand he said his son rode it was a top of the line bike.

Most of the kids at harvard won't even know what Ti is.

Was his name Andy Davis an eye doctor from Morganton NC?

[jjb]

Well I would really like to get a ti frame, even used (for my own conscience)...like a used seven or moots or serotta off ebay or something...but still, will added weight be enough to make a big difference vs. getting somethign lighter, cheaper, but not ti?

And I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye if I walk up with a ti bike...even if I did get it used.

BTW, early app to Harvard

If you are looking used you may want to check out http://www.kgsncycling.com/store.html and see if they have anything left in your size. I also came accross a couple of sierra nevada ledgends at veloswap in Denver a couple weeks ago too (I don't know if they were 2005 used for training or from a previous year). There were a bunch of c50's at veloswap from The Navigators pro team as well which were priced resonably well all things considered. You may want to check out the web and see if any of the other US pro teams have bikes left they are still looking to unload.

good luck and don't sweat what other people may think about your ride as long as your happy with it that's all that matters

-jjb

[inthegutter]

Whatever Mommy and Daddy can afford.

I thought the Jerk was the only jerk around here. :rolleyes:

[shiftinjon]

I am a very dedicated rider, and I train a lot.

To me, this is the most important sentence in your post. If you are a very dedicated rider, then you don't want down time;after a crash that bends your frame or fork, when your bike is in the shop, when a bike gets stolen. This says you need two bikes to me. :D Seriously, having two bikes is a great idea. Keep one in storage or at home ready for shipping if you won't have room for it at school.

And isn't the Trek 2300 an aluminum frame?

If you can swing it to get what you want, then get what you want. If you like brunettes, don't settle for a blond. Case closed.

[loctite]

not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not, but, join the team first, i guarantee you Harvrd cycling team has a bike sponsorship deal where you can get a 'Pro Deal" on a complete bike, generaly its for about the wholesale cost of the components! Check this out before you buy!

[Dekonick]

Well I would really like to get a ti frame, even used (for my own conscience)...like a used seven or moots or serotta off ebay or something...but still, will added weight be enough to make a big difference vs. getting somethign lighter, cheaper, but not ti?

And I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye if I walk up with a ti bike...even if I did get it used.

BTW, early app to Harvard

You can always get a Ti Legend and have it painted one solid color and have no decals applied. You will know - no one else will. :beer:

[coylifut]

not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not, but, join the team first, i guarantee you Harvrd cycling team has a bike sponsorship deal where you can get a 'Pro Deal" on a complete bike, generaly its for about the wholesale cost of the components! Check this out before you buy!

what loctite said

Doof. maybe you train too much. weren't you doing 4 hour trainer sessions last winter. :crap:

[shinomaster]

Used to sponsor Harvard and John Alis was the coach a few years back...maybe still...You could get what ever you need at Wheelworks! Join the team and get a pro Deal

[Lifelover]

Was his name Andy Davis an eye doctor from Morganton NC?

I know he was a Dr. and I think he was from NC. No clue about the name.

If I recall correctly he had two sons (at least) and the other one was already a Dr. or something along those lines.

It sounded as though they had done quite a bit of riding and hiking in the past. I remember him talking about some guided trips along the Blue ridge.

[Dr. Doofus]

what loctite said

Doof. maybe you train too much. weren't you doing 4 hour trainer sessions last winter. :crap:


hijack alert

yep

well, the powertap doesn't lie...doof recovers well, doof's numbers go up consistently, doof trains a lot but doesn't show any signs of it being too much...doof also has no talent for cycling...doof always thought he would be a good cyclist because he was a D1 college swimmer...turns out he had talent for swimming paired with an average-low VO2...on the bike he just has an average-low VO2 and likes to ride a lot

[William]

And I'm still wondering if people at college will give me the eye if I walk up with a ti bike...even if I did get it used.

BTW, early app to Harvard

Who cares what "they" might think? When I started racing in college I was riding an old Fuji. The other guys on the team were riding Serotta's, Trek's, Specialized, and even a nag. I just showed them I had the motor. Regardless of what you ride, that's what you'll get judged on. If anyone squaks about what your riding, make em eat rubber. :D

William

[Sandy]

All of that plus what kind of person you are.


Sandy

[William]

All of that plus what kind of person you are.


Sandy


Very true my good friend, Very true. :)


William

[djg]

Who cares what "they" might think? When I started racing in college I was riding an old Fuji. The other guys on the team were riding Serotta's, Trek's, Specialized, and even a nag. I just showed them I had the motor. Regardless of what you ride, that's what you'll get judged on. If anyone squaks about what your riding, make em eat rubber. :D

William

This is just dead right. I didn't go to Harvard (well, maybe once, like, for lunch), but I did race in the Ivies and folks on our team rode all sorts of things, from the top of the heap to budget Asian imports to things cobbled together from used frames and parts. Your bike--whatever it may be--might get some passing interest, but neither a Legend nor a mid-level Trek will really raise any eyebrows on that campus. In the end, I expect that they'll care about how you ride, and about what kind of teammate and person you turn out to be. You should ride what works for you.

So ... that's early app and in or early app and waiting?

[Ti Designs]

The Harvard team has 4 coaches, John Allis, George Kenty, Julie Idlet and myself. The team has a number of sponsorship deals, but our bike sponsorship deal this year with Cannondale had fallen apart with the departure of the rep. We are looking at other options, including a sponsorship with Serotta at this time. As for "pro deal" where you pay next to nothing, we make no such offers.

As for riding with the team, the men's A/B team has had some great climbers in the last few years and I hope that will continue. Chris Schmidt (10th at Mt Washington) is returning to head that team while George Kenty and I will be spending a lot of time coaching the development team. The emphasis with the Harvard team is in riding with the team. We have morning team rides three times a week plus weekend rides, we have indoor trainer sessions two nights a week, we have groups of riders hitting the gym in the winter.

As for the bike, I'm not going to talk you out of a Serotta Ti bike (I happen to own one myself), but you must understand the conditions that they ride and race in. First, you need to put aside some money for winter clothing. Take a look at the ECCC season, it starts in the first week of March and ends in april. We've had snow on at least one race weekend for the last 10 years. Riding in the winter is harsh, but it you want to be ready for the season there's no getting around it. Many riders switch over to fixed gears in the winter to save their good bikes and because a 2 hour ride on a fixed gear is like a 3 hour ride on a road bike (when it's cold, 2 hours sounds much better)

When it comes down to getting a new bike, don't go by advice you get on the internet. Come see me at Wheelworks (a sponsor of Harvard Cycling), I'll send you out on a number of test rides, give you a little first hand education on what bikes ride like, and help you find the right bike. If you happen to be in the area, show up on one of our team rides, I'd love to see you out there!

[coylifut]

we have indoor trainer sessions two nights a week


Ti, we are thinking about structuring an indoor training session once a week. How do you structure yours. Do you use training videos, music....do tell.

[weisan]

It's easy to see one-on-one coaching and personal development is where Ti-Master SHINES!

Hong-pal, part of getting good advice is knowing when to take it...TAKE IT!

[Ti Designs]

Ti, we are thinking about structuring an indoor training session once a week. How do you structure yours. Do you use training videos, music....do tell.

These aren't your standard music/video spinning type classes. I don't assume that people know how to pedal the bike - and in most casses I'm correct. My whole training plan is based on working efficientcy first and adding power later, if you just add power (intervals) your percentage of waste stays the same and you waste more energy. It's very simple, practice only makes perfect if you practice the right things...

Pedal stroke, pedal stroke, pedal stroke - I start sounding like a broken record in the fall. They're on trainers and the drill is simple. In a low gear, clip in with only one foot and pedal perfectly consistantly at around 50 RPMs for 1 minute, then switch sides and do the same thing with the other foot. After that, clip in with both, bring it up to 110 RPMs but pedal the same way for 3 minutes. Repeat until you lapse into a coma or 45 minutes has passed. When people start doing this you hear "swish, swish, swish" as they push down and let momentum take them the rest of the way around. The goal is to be able to slow it down and use the correct muscles all the way around the pedal stroke. When you're doing it right you shouldn't be able to tell the difference in sound between both feet clipped or just one.

Stage two is making that second nature, even when the resistance increases. They do the same drill, but each time they increase the gear. They learn that when the resistance increases they don't change the way they pedal. test show that most riders wreck their pedal stroke when trying to push harder, which explains why some people just can't get up a hill to save their lives when they're fine on the flats.

Once they can handle a little resistance with one foot clipped in it's time to go to the full workout which looks like this

1 min left side @50 RPMs 39x21
1 min right side @50 PRMs 39x21
3 min both @100 RPMs 39x21

1 min left side @50 RPMs 39x19
1 min right side @50 PRMs 39x19
3 min both @105 RPMs 39x21

1 min left side @50 RPMs 39x17
1 min right side @50 PRMs 39x17
3 min both @110 RPMs 39x21

1 min left side @50 RPMs 39x16
1 min right side @50 PRMs 39x16
3 min both @120 RPMs 39x21

And so on... The idea is to make the resistance a bit of a struggle by the end, and to bring up the cadence with both feet clipped in. The total lack of bouncing at high RPMs means it's all working right.

[Fixed]

bro I do that kind workout on my fixed outside but I guess you dudes know I'm a bit weird . Ti I'm glad you got a hold of that kid he'll know what's up now. So bro what are thoses goofy cranks a lot of guys are use'n the one's that go every which a way both can hang down, big fat ugly a$$ gold color .what good are they? cheers :beer:

[Kane]

or some other god awful place. Rent the house out and build some equity. When you graduate from Haaavaard, you can refi your house, pay off your loans and deduct the interest on the second mortgage.

Back to frame buying. Likely, you are still growing. A simple X-Ray of your knee will tell you if your growth centers are closed on your femur. Don't invest in a nice frame until you reach skeletal maturity. Remember, after you get married, you'll gain 25 pounds in the first ten years.

If you still want to buy a cheap ti frame and you can't find a used Serotta, consider those, 'Made in China by Slaves', frames from Colorado Cyclist or Air... whatever frames.

Cheers,


Kane

[jckid]

If you're looking for Ti and you're on a budget, check out the Litespeed Firenze. Colorado Cyclist has the frame/fork on clearance for $999. Can't beat that for Ti. It's a decent bike. I had one prior to my Serotta.

[Dr. Doofus]

(third-rate jerk imitation)

you know what the doof thinks. get a gunnar roadie and a ritchey fork, and get a power tap wheel. the rest is all bullcrap. train a lot, learn about exercsie physiology so you sort of understand what you're doing, and if you have talent, you'll climb. or, you can be like the doof and just train because you like to train and that's what you get off on, even though you're pretty useless and most USCF morons aren't smart enought to get your jokes so the main fun you have in races is to run little pools with your buddies on which guys in your field will crash on the last lap. doof usually wins those but he's gracious and will by you a donut with your money.