OT: IT project management from scratch?

[phcollard]

I know it's way off topic so mods feel free to delete.

Anybody managing projects in the IT world? I'm looking for some advice here : I have been a Java Web developer for the last ten years but I would like to switch to project management. I have zero experience with this except seeing things from the other side of the fence as a programmer.

So I was wandering... Is it realistic to think that I could get a junior PM position by following a few continuing studies courses? I assume that to look credible I should have at least a few certifications like Scrum Master? PMI PMP? Do you think these are valuable enough that I should invest in them? How hard is it to obtain those with zero experience?

Many questions :) And wisdom from the pros would be appreciated!

Cheers,

Philippe.

[Pete Mckeon]

You need to first get some experience after taking some PM courses. They are still in demand and with your technical background it will also help. If you need any specific info or a discussion, feel free to contact me. Just like with programming or other fields, getting a good foundation on knowledge is always a good beginning, PETE

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . so no problem! I hope you get some good advice. This is one of the things this forum is here for--so we can help each other! :)

BBD

[roguedog]

Phillippe, Pm'd you with a long rambling Pm. Hopefully it made sense.

<tongue in cheek> WHY??? :D <-- this was to make Pete laugh (or any PM)

[eddief]

If in a company, get with your boss and let em know what your goal is. take some courses so you can speak the lingo and understand the models. then get the boss to give you a chance to get your feet wet by having him or someone who does project management let you take on some PM responsibilities...you kow like a mentoring relationship.

[shovelhd]

I am a PMI PMP with a focus on IT. My cert is not current as I changed jobs to a position where it is no longer required. I used to manage IT projects as large as $25M.

Lots of people call themselves Project Managers. Lots of people diagnose medical issues over the Internet, too, but they do not call themselves doctors.

I think it would be hard to obtain your PMP without practical experience, at least in one try. I had many years of formal project management experience under my belt before I even started studying for my PMP. I spent 9 months studying and passed on the first try. It is not an easy test.

Project management in general is, like most IT work, equally boring, challenging, unappreciated, rewarded, mundane, and fulfilling. How your company views PM's and their role, how willing the IT stakeholders are to give up control, how senior management empowers them, can make the difference between an enjoyable career and pure hell.

I would get the PMI book, read it through, and talk to your management.

Good luck.

[rwsaunders]

Our folks receive continuing Ed in project management, even though some of them have been PM's for 20 years or so. There is a fellow in Princeton that we use to mentor as you said, our team, as well as our partners, in organizing a process that works for technical and non-technical folks as well.

Send a PM and I'll send you info.

[DreaminJohn]

At my very large company, people such as yourself are given the opportunity to "coordinate" small projects (that don't qualify for a PM) to get their feet wet. I have found that I can easily identify potential quality PMs from this exercise.

If you have the organizational skills (a good PM's primary prerequisite IMHO) for it, I say follow the advice of the PMI types here and read a book or take an intro class. If your current company will allow it, volunteer to take something on outside your current skillset.

Good Luck.

[phcollard]

Guys, thank you so much for the replies and to roguedog for his lengthy PM.

I now have a much better idea of what's going on / where I should go than when I woke up this morning.

Here's the situation basically :
- I'm unemployed right now so no chance to give a try at PM in my current company.
- BUT having 10 years of experience as a lead developer is certainly something that I should put forward.
- I should get Scrum certification, it's a short trip and it's appreciated.
- I should get some basic training and while I'm at it an entry level PMI certification.

Shovelhd I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, even if you won't ship anything to Canada - just kidding :)

I love these forums. There are always experts about anything - on or off topic!

Thanks for wishing me luck. I hope you have a nice evening all.

Philippe.

[eddief]

this is the perfect time to meet some managers and offer to do something for free for them (legal) in exchange for the opportunity to get your feet wet. I once offered to do the stuff I was tired of and good at for free for three months in exchange for being mentored in doing what I wanted to do next. I never had to work for free, but did my thing for 3 months as a paid intern while learning the new thing. At the end of those 3 months my manager hired a new person to do my shi$t work and made me a full time employee doing organization development. While I set up her training department infrastructure she mentored me through a couple of projects that were valuable for her.Then she made me a colleague. Win, win, win.

[flydhest]

So, I am not an IT professional (I am an economist) and I am not a project or program manager (I am an economist). Despite these rather salient facts, I am in charge of a ~$60 million IT modernization/development effort. A couple of facts have become clear to me that may be helpful. First, project management is a distinct discipline from either being the business owner (me) or the developer (what you used to do). Having insight into either or both is very good, but it can be distracting. In principle (but not really in practice) a PM could do their job without knowing that much about the business. My personal view is that I could be a PM by thinking really hard and working really hard, but there are methods and practices that exist and that work well. Going with the certification will do two things. Signal to prospective employers that you know something and that you take it seriously, and second . . . actually make you think hard about what being a PM is. A really good PM can save a project. You may not make friends in the process, though.

Resist the urge to think that because you were a lead developer you know a lot about being a PM. That may well be true, but try to take it as a separate discipline. In the end, you'll combine your experience with your new knowledge and you'll be better for it.

My opinion . . . worth roughly twice what you paid for it.

[phcollard]

Resist the urge to think that because you were a lead developer you know a lot about being a PM. That may well be true, but try to take it as a separate discipline. In the end, you'll combine your experience with your new knowledge and you'll be better for it.

Thanks for your opinion, I really appreciate.

I know it's a different job, and I did not say I know a lot about PM. I'm fully aware that I'm a total noob.

But I also know how frustrating it is - as a programmer - to work with a PM who leads an IT project and doesn't have the most basic technical knowledge. I have been there many times and lost an awful amount of time and energy explaining simple technical considerations. That's why I believe my experience will be worth something if I chose the PM path, as you said :)

[rwsaunders]

Here's our PM guru...Frank. Call him, he's a great resource.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1822525/what-hell-project-management-anyway

[phcollard]

Here's our PM guru...Frank. Call him, he's a great resource.

http://www.fastcompany.com/1822525/what-hell-project-management-anyway

Excellent article, thanks a lot!

I'll read his eBook.

[rwsaunders]

Excellent article, thanks a lot!

I'll read his eBook.

Don't do the movie as even Frank didn't like it. We had our staff read the book, apply the process to several real life project issues, then we had Frank in the office for two days to test and refine further. It's working but it takes discipline and commitment like any professional endeavor. He's helped our firm, both younger staff and old dogs alike.

[IFRider]

Philippe,

Your question touches upon most of my career. As background, I have deep experience in software engineering (Enterprise IT, large commercial software, SaaS, IaaS). I have been running everything from small projects (scrum teams of 3-5) to large $25mm transformation projects. I am currently running customer engineering for an IaaS company and recently was VP of Products (engineering and product management) for a SaaS Project and Portfolio Management company in Boston.

As others have spoken to, Project management is a different and valuable skill beyond software engineering. I would go as far to say, more important albeit not as well paid as strong software engineering.

As a web developer is your background on the IT side or the commercial software side of the house?
- Formal project management certification tends to be less valued on the commercial side. Most commercial software teams I have run did not have formal project management teams and those that did were often faced challenges of being an outside group to engineering. Typically a senior developer/manager would run the projects as part of developing software. That said, I would strongly encourage you to seek out some Scrum (or other Agile methodologies) training as that is a huge differentiation for engineering here in Boston.
- On the IT side of the house, formal project management certification can be helpful in a more mature organization. Often project managers/PMO organizations are built around people with a strong background in the business. As Software engineering and other IT functions are outsourced, strong project management skills become more valuable.

Is your experience primarily in a single industry? If you have been in financial services or healthcare for instance, you can leverage your business industry knowledge and would benefit from Project Management training. Bear in mind though, that you will likely move from the software engineering focus.

As you are currently unemployed, don't presume that PMI certification or some courses are going to help a lot in finding a new position. Unless you have tangible experience running projects, it will be a challenge to leverage the certification. I would focus on learning new technologies first (e.g. HTML5, Ajax, Mobile). Look to see what employers are asking for first.

There is a wide range of Project Management approaches and methodologies. If your focus is the engineering project management I would strongly recommend you read up Agile, Iterative, Scrum and methodologies. I would also recommend you looks at things like Test Driven Development and Automation testing approaches. Once you are familiar with the terminology and approaches, you will like find you have more exposure than you realize.

Lastly, I see you are in Montreal. Until recently I ran the engineering team at a SaaS provider there. If your background is on the Microsoft stack, PM a resume to me and I will introduce you to some people over there.

If you have the right engineering skills, you won't be on the street for long. I know things are picking up in Montreal as they are in Boston. Feels a little like the early Dot Com era right now for engineering talent. Feel free to PM if you want to talk further,

Warren

[shovelhd]

I know things are picking up in Montreal as they are in Boston. Feels a little like the early Dot Com era right now for engineering talent. Feel free to PM if you want to talk further,

Warren

I am in western MA, but it is picking up out here and in central MA as well. I am getting job opportunities every day.

[fkelly]

Here's my heretical take on PM. I ran a DP shop for 30 years. We went from 2 people in the 1970's (me and a secretary who did data input) to over 50 people, including consultants. We did hardware, software, full systems, user support ... everything ... in a very high pressure environment. The last few years we got "taken over" by a boss who relied on consultants who had a formal PM methodology. There were some good ideas in the methodology but it was mostly B.S.

Yes, for a large project you need to break the project down into components, develop a schedule for each component, figure out dependencies, assign resources to components/tasks, track progress, make adjustments, have formal change control mechanisms, have a formal testing and acceptance process and the like. But you don't need to be a certified PM to figure that out. Nor do you need to spend 50 percent of the project's resources on PM.

If you look at the very high failure rate of IT projects, it's not because they don't have PM methodologies. Many failures do. It's because management doesn't really understand what they are trying to accomplish nor do they understand the technology. And because there aren't enough appropriately and highly skilled technical resources working in a coordinated fashion and communicating among themselves.

In short, IMHO project management as a separate discipline is pernicious. What is needed is subject matter experts (say trained and experienced programmers in an IT project) who also understand project management.

[shovelhd]

If you spent 50% of your resources on a PM, your project did not need one. A good PM navigates seamlessly between the customer, senior management, and the implementers so that expectations are set. It sounds like you have had some bad experiences.

[damocles]

Hey Phil, I work for a firm in the enterprise ecommerce space called hybris (www.hybris.com). I noticed you're in Montreal which is where our North American head office is. We've got variety of positions for guys with your background (the little that I know about it from reading this thread)...

Check out the job postings here:

http://www.hybris.com/en/company/careers/jobs



Guys, thank you so much for the replies and to roguedog for his lengthy PM.

I now have a much better idea of what's going on / where I should go than when I woke up this morning.

Here's the situation basically :
- I'm unemployed right now so no chance to give a try at PM in my current company.
- BUT having 10 years of experience as a lead developer is certainly something that I should put forward.
- I should get Scrum certification, it's a short trip and it's appreciated.
- I should get some basic training and while I'm at it an entry level PMI certification.

Shovelhd I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts, even if you won't ship anything to Canada - just kidding :)

I love these forums. There are always experts about anything - on or off topic!

Thanks for wishing me luck. I hope you have a nice evening all.

Philippe.

[eddief]

the ball moving in a career transition. Face to face, voice to voice, or via the internet. You notice the OP was not asking for a job, but merely information. And now you can see the ball moving in the direction of a job being "delivered" to him. I love this stuff.

Philippe,

Your question touches upon most of my career. As background, I have deep experience in software engineering (Enterprise IT, large commercial software, SaaS, IaaS). I have been running everything from small projects (scrum teams of 3-5) to large $25mm transformation projects. I am currently running customer engineering for an IaaS company and recently was VP of Products (engineering and product management) for a SaaS Project and Portfolio Management company in Boston.

As others have spoken to, Project management is a different and valuable skill beyond software engineering. I would go as far to say, more important albeit not as well paid as strong software engineering.

As a web developer is your background on the IT side or the commercial software side of the house?
- Formal project management certification tends to be less valued on the commercial side. Most commercial software teams I have run did not have formal project management teams and those that did were often faced challenges of being an outside group to engineering. Typically a senior developer/manager would run the projects as part of developing software. That said, I would strongly encourage you to seek out some Scrum (or other Agile methodologies) training as that is a huge differentiation for engineering here in Boston.
- On the IT side of the house, formal project management certification can be helpful in a more mature organization. Often project managers/PMO organizations are built around people with a strong background in the business. As Software engineering and other IT functions are outsourced, strong project management skills become more valuable.

Is your experience primarily in a single industry? If you have been in financial services or healthcare for instance, you can leverage your business industry knowledge and would benefit from Project Management training. Bear in mind though, that you will likely move from the software engineering focus.

As you are currently unemployed, don't presume that PMI certification or some courses are going to help a lot in finding a new position. Unless you have tangible experience running projects, it will be a challenge to leverage the certification. I would focus on learning new technologies first (e.g. HTML5, Ajax, Mobile). Look to see what employers are asking for first.

There is a wide range of Project Management approaches and methodologies. If your focus is the engineering project management I would strongly recommend you read up Agile, Iterative, Scrum and methodologies. I would also recommend you looks at things like Test Driven Development and Automation testing approaches. Once you are familiar with the terminology and approaches, you will like find you have more exposure than you realize.

Lastly, I see you are in Montreal. Until recently I ran the engineering team at a SaaS provider there. If your background is on the Microsoft stack, PM a resume to me and I will introduce you to some people over there.

If you have the right engineering skills, you won't be on the street for long. I know things are picking up in Montreal as they are in Boston. Feels a little like the early Dot Com era right now for engineering talent. Feel free to PM if you want to talk further,

Warren

[phcollard]

the ball moving in a career transition. Face to face, voice to voice, or via the internet. You notice the OP was not asking for a job, but merely information. And now you can see the ball moving in the direction of a job being "delivered" to him. I love this stuff.

This indeed amazing. I want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts and more (damocles I just sent you a PM)!

I am still exploring the possibilities right now and you guys are so helpful. Real pros. I sincerely appreciate. I am sorry I did not communicate with you all individually but believe me I read you!

Thanks again.

Philippe.