Have these questions on 23mm road rims been beaten to death yet?

[mmtmatrix]

I am looking at putting some some wheels together for my 20 year old 'race' bike, I like to stick with what I know, which is aluminum and clincher. Mostly road races, but some crits (I am not too serious of a racer). Here is the question, while I am open to new ideas, it's narrowed down to/trying to decide between building some 'light weight' race wheels, 23mm AL clinchers (HED Belgium, Velocity A23, etc, I've heard some good things about these/and the 'feel' that comes with them) or just sticking with some 28h hubs I have and building them as light as I can, possibly going tubular...

Arguably, the 23mm rim route requires 2 new sets of hoops, a second to ride on to avoid brake adjustments

So the question is, how good are these rims, and how do they compare to a true tubular? (weight, feel, grip, aero)

Also, do you still see the benefits (aerodynamics due to smooth tire/rim transition, good feel/grip, etc) with a 23mm tire on a 23mm rim, or do they really only start to shine at slightly wider tires?

Any thoughts or experience anyone wants to share that hasn't been said already (Ive read quire a bit up on them)?

Thanks!

[Black Dog]

Do a search of previous threads here. You will find lots of info from people that ride wider rims. There is something to them.

[Gummee]

I'll save you some time and effort: they're wheels. They go round and round.

Personally, I don't feel any significant difference between my A23s and the other 8-ish pairs of (19mm) wheels in the garage. The *one* pair of wide rims I thought made a small difference were my box-section Omega XL clinchers and even they weren't earth-shatteringly different.

G'luck!

M

[Louis]

I had a Velocity A23 on my daily driver's rear wheel for about half of last year. 25 mm Michelin Pro Race 3 tire. It replaced a Topolino C19 w/ 23 mm PR 3 tire. (I've waiting for the front tire to wear out to put the A23 front on)

My comments:

1) I didn't really didn't notice any difference in the ride.

2) IMO the 23mm rim w/ the 25mm tire looks big. Especially since I still have the 19mm Topolino rim w/ a Conti GP4000 23mm tire in front, it's easy to do a direct visual comparison of the two.

I'm not sure if having the A23 on the front also will make a bigger difference. We'll see when the Conti wears out and I swap out the Topolino.

Bottom line: right now I'm not sold on the wider rims. Aesthetically, I don't really like them - IMO they look too fat for a road bike. YMMV (Lots of other folks love them.)

[mmtmatrix]

Great Thanks!

I guess in addition/specifically wondering 23rims vs tubular and also with 23mm tires.

[Gummee]

Build em and see. That's the only way YOU will know for sure.

Its only $...

M

[Louis]

and also with 23mm tires.

I don't have any real statistics on this, but I think most folks who use 23mm rims use 25 or wider tires. I think they figure, what's the point in sticking to a narrow tire, if the whole idea is to improve ride quality by going to a wider rim?

[LegendRider]

I don't have any real statistics on this, but I think most folks who use 23mm rims use 25 or wider tires. I think they figure, what's the point in sticking to a narrow tire, if the whole idea is to improve ride quality by going to a wider rim?

I use 23mm Conti GP4000s tires on my Hed Belgiums. They measure a little more than 25mm wide when mounted. That's plenty wide for the type of riding I do.

[ultraman6970]

I would go kinlin clinchers or tubulars. Tubulars prefered if you are going to race, specially criteriums.

[AgilisMerlin]

Will be riding a synergy rear in a couple weeks/25mm vittoria

Looks big/mounted tire nice/ride it 90% of year

Bombproof I am expecting

Roads up here suck

[thwart]

An occasional riding buddy (the pace of a hard training ride for me would be his recovery spin) who races crits says that with his Hed Belgium 23 mm rims, the only limiting factor on corners is pedal strike.

He likes 'em lots.

[giverdada]

long version: previous posts in other threads on the same topic.

short version: go wide. they rock corners, i know nothing about aerodynamics, and the 'feel' for my 165-lb. butt was almost on-par with tubulars, in cornering and suppleness, even with training tires. my reflexes spun up faster but that's because reflex rims don't weigh anything. my front reflex wheel was a scary thing to descend with; my front A23 wheel is a dream on rails.

conclusion: ymmv.

[jlwdm]

When I asked HED about tire size for the Ardennes part of the response was "22 to 24 work best for the road."

Jeff

[AngryScientist]

It replaced a Topolino C19

topolinos are without a doubt, the best wheels i've ever ridden. take that, wide rims.

[hokoman]

topolinos are without a doubt, the best wheels i've ever ridden. take that, wide rims.

+1. :banana:

[Louis]

topolinos are without a doubt, the best wheels i've ever ridden. take that, wide rims.

I had problems with the AL nipples on the rear drive side, partly because the threaded section at the spoke end did not go far enough into some of the nipples. Other than that, they were pretty good wheels. I probably should have all the nipples replaced with brass.

[Llewellyn]

short version: go wide. they rock corners, i know nothing about aerodynamics, and the 'feel' for my 165-lb. butt was almost on-par with tubulars, in cornering and suppleness, even with training tires. my reflexes spun up faster but that's because reflex rims don't weigh anything. my front reflex wheel was a scary thing to descend with; my front A23 wheel is a dream on rails.

conclusion: ymmv.

Pretty much the same for me (can't compare to tubs as I've never used them), but agree with the rest. I'm using TB14's with Conti GP 4000S's (23mm front, 25mm rear) and they corner like they're on rails. Ride is really comfy too :banana:

[oldpotatoe]

I am looking at putting some some wheels together for my 20 year old 'race' bike, I like to stick with what I know, which is aluminum and clincher. Mostly road races, but some crits (I am not too serious of a racer). Here is the question, while I am open to new ideas, it's narrowed down to/trying to decide between building some 'light weight' race wheels, 23mm AL clinchers (HED Belgium, Velocity A23, etc, I've heard some good things about these/and the 'feel' that comes with them) or just sticking with some 28h hubs I have and building them as light as I can, possibly going tubular...

Arguably, the 23mm rim route requires 2 new sets of hoops, a second to ride on to avoid brake adjustments

So the question is, how good are these rims, and how do they compare to a true tubular? (weight, feel, grip, aero)

Also, do you still see the benefits (aerodynamics due to smooth tire/rim transition, good feel/grip, etc) with a 23mm tire on a 23mm rim, or do they really only start to shine at slightly wider tires?

Any thoughts or experience anyone wants to share that hasn't been said already (Ive read quire a bit up on them)?

Thanks!

In a nut shell, no clincher, whether it be fat rim, tubeless, etc, rides as well as a nice tubular, none.

Weight differences(ubnless a carbon tubular rim)are lost in the noise, feel, see above, grip, see above..aero..lost in the noise with a rim with enough spokes to make it reliable.