No disc brakes in the top 10 Elite Men's racers at CX Worlds 2013

[Erik_A]

It is interesting that there were no disc brakes used on the bikes ridden by the top 10 Elite Men's racers at the CX Worlds 2013 (that I could see). Do you think that it is because of weight; due to the disc pad problems seen in conditions at US Nationals this year; or just tradition: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/11/news/top-cyclocross-pros-still-stick-in-the-muds-as-regards-disc-brakes_263893

[MattTuck]

It is interesting that there were no disc brakes used on the bikes ridden by the top 10 Elite Men's racers at the CX Worlds 2013 (that I could see). Do you think that it is because of weight; due to the disc pad problems seen in conditions at US Nationals this year; or just tradition: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/11/news/top-cyclocross-pros-still-stick-in-the-muds-as-regards-disc-brakes_263893

I think there are a number of reasons, but the big reason is probably risk aversion.

[mmtmatrix]

No disc brakes in the top 10 Elite Men's racers at CX Worlds 2013:

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[sevencyclist]

It is interesting that there were no disc brakes used on the bikes ridden by the top 10 Elite Men's racers at the CX Worlds 2013 (that I could see). Do you think that it is because of weight; due to the disc pad problems seen in conditions at US Nationals this year; or just tradition: http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/11/news/top-cyclocross-pros-still-stick-in-the-muds-as-regards-disc-brakes_263893

Things to ponder: The top guys chose not to use the discs, or is it because they did not use the discs and that helpd them to in the top 10 elite.

[nooneline]

Things to ponder: The top guys chose not to use the discs, or is it because they did not use the discs and that helpd them to in the top 10 elite.

I think it's quite clearly the former, as there are few people using discs, and the folks in the top ten are among the usual suspects, so to speak.

[spaced_ghost]

all of the top 10 were European. many of the top European CX racers, undisputedly the masters of cx racing internationally, have all made statements that they are sticking with what works, i.e. cantis, and that they find the noise of squeaking discs irritating/distracting. many of them have had to haggle with their sponsors/get one-off frames to stay on cantis while the industry switches to disc, iirc.

[VA-Scooter]

I have a CX bike with disc brakes. I do not race CX but I doubt the disc are any better in mud & such. Using a CX bike for a road bike I like disc better than cantis. I do not see where a regular road bike needs disc brakes. I think they stuck with what they knew & trusted.

[spaced_ghost]

I know the mud and grit kills disc pads insanely fast. have heard stories of having to change out the disc pads halfway through a race.

[RkyMtn]

I know the mud and grit kills disc pads insanely fast. have heard stories of having to change out the disc pads halfway through a race.

A friend and mechanic for XC says the same thing. He had some guy come running around asking if anyone had any pads for his disc brakes as he wore the pads completely down after one race.

[Bruce K]

The bots at the Cannondale team have switched to solid rotors to help with pads life.

It seems the slotting in the rotors (used to save weight) was where the mud/grit was accumulating and that was a big part of the reduced pad life.

If I lived somewhere that included big climbs with big, fast descents, I would give some serious thought to a disc equipped road bike . My thinking is that getting the heat from braking away from the rim and tire, along with the added stopping power would be a plus.

Otherwise, I really don't see the need.

BK

[handsomerob]

Vented/Cross-Drilled Rotors on a car are chosen for heat dissipation as well as lower weight, but effectively turn a solid disc into a cheese grater. I can only imagine the wear from a combination cheese grater/wet sander on a small bike pad.

[oldpotatoe]

The bots at the Cannondale team have switched to solid rotors to help with pads life.

It seems the slotting in the rotors (used to save weight) was where the mud/grit was accumulating and that was a big part of the reduced pad life.

If I lived somewhere that included big climbs with big, fast descents, I would give some serious thought to a disc equipped road bike . My thinking is that getting the heat from braking away from the rim and tire, along with the added stopping power would be a plus.

Otherwise, I really don't see the need.

BK

DejaVu all over again. Heat dissipation on wet(hydro)road discs are a huge problem not yet solved by any of the manufacturers. Small calipers, enclosed reservoirs, less fluid, all make for big heat buildup problems that, unless solved, will result in fluid boiling off and no brakes.

[Bruce K]

That's why I'm not jumping into discs for cross quite so fast (and I'm not that fast anyway:cool:)

I see no need for road discs at all

BK

[thwart]

This is so humorous.

1-2 yrs ago, pretty much everyone was saying that discs were going to be the only way to go for CX, especially after the UCI approved them. And selling new frames and associated equipment was just a happy coincidence of the forward march of technology.

Now... well, maybe not so much... :rolleyes:

[e-RICHIE]

This is so humorous.

1-2 yrs ago, pretty much everyone was saying that discs were going to be the only way to go for CX, especially after the UCI approved them.

Now... well, maybe not so much... :rolleyes:

I think it was the online-ers who said that much more so than the racing community. The brakes were approved all along for non-UCI events, and that they were pushed through was a case of manufacturers lobbying for them so that the heroes - those who would have to use them by dint of sponsorship contracts - would be seen on them, would be endorsing them, and more commerce could occur in the lower ranks (the same non-UCI events in which these components were always allowed atmo...), thus selling brakes to folks who already were using them anyway. It's an old conversation, but in the CX discipline, brakes are really not a large part of the equation.

[fourflys]

Don Myrah won the World's on a disc Lugi... I think he may have had a back-up bike that was canti though...

[gavingould]

Trebon was certainly gaining ground toward the top 10 before he went over the bars and DNF'd.

[oldpotatoe]

I think it was the online-ers who said that much more so than the racing community. The brakes were approved all along for non-UCI events, and that they were pushed through was a case of manufacturers lobbying for them so that the heroes - those who would have to use them by dint of sponsorship contracts - would be seen on them, would be endorsing them, and more commerce could occur in the lower ranks (the same non-UCI events in which these components were always allowed atmo...), thus selling brakes to folks who already were using them anyway. It's an old conversation, but in the CX discipline, brakes are really not a large part of the equation.

I think this is an important point. Traction, lack of shifting mechanicals(lots at the world's, chain drops), reliability, weight(gotta pick the thing up and run with it)..all more important.

[DerekG]

Traction being of primary importance on a cross bike, I would think the added stopping power of discs would be more likely to cause a loss of it.

[Dave B]

I chose discs for the cross bike I am having built. Simply as I do not have the skill, bike handling, or weigh 120lbs where cantis are enough.

Us larger and less talented genetle-folk like to stop when we want. That is simply the reason. Technology will get better and the brakes, pads, rotors, etc will catch up.

[e-RICHIE]

I chose discs for the cross bike I am having built. Simply as I do not have the skill, bike handling, or weigh 120lbs where cantis are enough.

Us larger and less talented genetle-folk like to stop when we want. That is simply the reason. Technology will get better and the brakes, pads, rotors, etc will catch up.

But staying on topic, you folks have always been permitted to use discs; the sidebar here is that manufacturers lobbied the UCI (either overtly or subliminally...) to let the UCI C1 and UCI C2 events to become disc-friendly so that more sponsored racers could be seen using them and, in turn, even more folks who have used them all along could buy more. The racing community, at least the community that envelopes the C1 and c2 events, has never suffered with cantilevers. Again, braking is really not part of the equation to the point that propping up arguments FOR discs has made it. I am sure all of the parts work well and, when adjusted, do a very good job.

[lukasz]

I chose discs for the cross bike I am having built. Simply as I do not have the skill, bike handling, or weigh 120lbs where cantis are enough.

Us larger and less talented genetle-folk like to stop when we want. That is simply the reason. Technology will get better and the brakes, pads, rotors, etc will catch up.

I've raced a small handful of cross events a year for 3 years now (mostly on tame grass crit style courses aka the ones where brakes would matter most) and have not once thought "man, I need better brakes." Factor mud into that equation and maintaining forward motion through 1/2 a foot of slop is a far bigger worry than needing to come to a stop--which is what you do only after you cross the finish 45-1 hour later.

My mtb has discs but the rear rotor is so warped that it barely does anything when i squeeze the lever. I haven't bothered to fix it. I'm not the best bike handler by far but this isn't exactly Formula 1. You're more likely to fall by locking up the front than not being able to bleed speed quick enough.

[JayBay]

I'm planning to build a disc cross bike this year. After having raced one season of cross with mini-v's I'm definitely looking forward to disc brakes. Are they necessary? No. Will they make me a faster/better racer? I doubt it. Then why bother? Because I'm a technical rider. My thing is being able to push the bike into and around corners hard and fast. It's not about ultimate stopping power, it's about the strength and consistency of feel, lap after lap, no matter the conditions. I need to know when I dive for that apex my brakes will be there for me.

And the notion of having too much braking ability??? That's just crazy. I'd say you're MUCH more likely to lock it up and dump the bike if you're squeezing the levers for all they're worth than if you're lightly feathering them. More power = more control.

But to each his own. I've been mountain biking for 20 years and I lived with cantilever brakes long enough to really appreciate how much better discs are.

[Gummee]

Traction being of primary importance on a cross bike, I would think the added stopping power of discs would be more likely to cause a loss of it.
Watch the Euro races. They're running out of traction WELL before running out of braking. I know *I* lose traction before I run out of braking and I'm LOTS slower than the top-level guys.

There's 1-2x year where I'll come into a corner too hot and think 'I need more brakes' but the other 99.9% of the time my cantis work just fine for doing what I'm doing.

M

[djg]

But staying on topic, you folks have always been permitted to use discs; the sidebar here is that manufacturers lobbied the UCI (either overtly or subliminally...) to let the UCI C1 and UCI C2 events to become disc-friendly so that more sponsored racers could be seen using them and, in turn, even more folks who have used them all along could buy more. The racing community, at least the community that envelopes the C1 and c2 events, has never suffered with cantilevers. Again, braking is really not part of the equation to the point that propping up arguments FOR discs has made it. I am sure all of the parts work well and, when adjusted, do a very good job.

Yes, I've been allowed to, and I've declined. I agree that the parts do pretty well when properly adjusted, which is not to say that I've never found myself in a moment of wanting more stopping power or better controlled braking while racing. My overall perception is that mostly it's ok as is, and that switching would impose some real costs, and not just benefits. My most basic perception has been that the ability to go slow enough has never been one of my major limiting factors.

[DerekG]

Watch the Euro races. They're running out of traction WELL before running out of braking. I know *I* lose traction before I run out of braking and I'm LOTS slower than the top-level guys.

There's 1-2x year where I'll come into a corner too hot and think 'I need more brakes' but the other 99.9% of the time my cantis work just fine for doing what I'm doing.

M

That was my take after a couple seasons of cx. I have lots of traction on my mtb so discs work well. On a cross bike there is very little traction so it's easy to overwhelm the brakes and wash the front end. Plus the added benefit of being a pound lighter will keep me on canti braked bikes for the foreseeable future.

[cincicycles]

A friend and mechanic for XC says the same thing. He had some guy come running around asking if anyone had any pads for his disc brakes as he wore the pads completely down after one race.

Solid rotors are the way to go. I'm not worried by a few more ounces of weight from a solid rotor when the bike can gain a couple of pounds in the muddy conditions.

If I had the money to purchase a $2500 carbon wheelset, I would not want to trash them by sandblasting the sidewalls with cantis. I have a disc CX bike now, just ordered up some solid rotors (not that I had issues with my old ones, but why not be on the safe side) and feel better braking with the disc than I ever did with the canti's.

Just my 2 cents...:beer: