Pronto

[jpw]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=600319653317487&set=a.600319649984154.152857.119812894701501&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=600319683317484&set=a.600319649984154.152857.119812894701501&type=1&theater

Do my eyes deceive me, or is that a horizontal top tube?

P.S. those decals are BIG.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Here's some photos. Bike is bare-Ti beautiful. Craftsmanship is top-notch. Decals are, uh, er, well judge for yourself . . .

BBD

[phcollard]

I see it as slightly sloping?

Those decals are way too big. I like the orange though.

[Joachim]

I think its awesome. The pronto decal can be a little smaller, but I like the huge Serotta decal on a race bike. I would love to race that thing. Serotta is targeting a specific market with this bike and it's not the market where decals are generally small and dainty.

[jpw]

Here's some photos. Bike is bare-Ti beautiful. Craftsmanship is top-notch. Decals are, uh, er, well judge for yourself . . .

BBD

"PROTOTYPE"?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/11/30/mclaren-p1-prototype-seen-testing-on-public-roads/

Now i get it.

[jpw]

I see it as slightly sloping?

Those decals are way too big. I like the orange though.

Yes, Mr. Bee's photos confirm a slight slope. 2 degrees?

[FlashUNC]

Less headtube-icus giganticus. Cool logos.

Looks very nice.

[malcolm]

For me, I like the overall look of the bike as in dimensions. The decals are way over the top, made me throw up a little in my mouth. I'll be the first to say I don't like busy are garish decals though so it may be me.

[Nooch]

"PROTOTYPE"?



Yeah, this was just a pre-production prototype. What has been said is accurate -- the target demographic (racers) will need a bike that screams the brand a little bit more so the helicopters can see us (going around a 4-corner office park crit...). Serotta has said that they will likely tone down the pronto designation on the top tube and move it back up. The Serotta on the fork blade was the way it was as a masking agent, as the fork shown will not be the one shipping with the bike -- a new fork, specifically for this bike, is being designed and tested as we speak :)

It's also been recomended to do away with the anodization -- it's an added expense to the company, and doesn't bring any real value to the frame aesthetic... decals on dark brushed ti, perfect, call it a day. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

I'm in line on this, and very excited about it.

edit: this bike may have had something to do with the inspiration for the decals:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5318/5903077108_298820df0a_z.jpg

[happycampyer]

The bike is hot. Scott form Serotta said that the decals were a work-in-progress and that the name would be smaller and more forward. Perhaps the hottest thing is a detail that you can pick up from BBD's close-up of the headtube—the bike is designed for a tapered fork from 1-1/8" – 1-1/4", and not to 1-1/2". Aside from the fact that it avoids having a Foster's beer can for a headtube, it creates a fork that is stiffer than one with a straight steerer, but is not overkill stiff. It's nice to be able to design and build your own forks, and it's even nicer to have Mike Lopez in-house overseeing the process.

The other thing I look forward to is some of the features trickling up, so to speak—think of an Ottrott with the "F5" fork and PF BB30...

[Joachim]

I know you love yours Bill, but I really hope it doesn't come with a PF30. The tapered fork will be pretty cool.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . like the idea of the anodizing, whether the subtle stripes or a total treatment with logos as well. I have no idea how expesnive it is vs. decals, though I'm certain it would be more expensive at the factory end. I also wonder about the ano process and how bright the colors can be made.

Getting rid of decals/stickers also gets rid of trashed decals/stickers. It keeps it a "hose it off and that's that" bike to clean up and that could be attractive to racers

To me, not being able to do it because Firefly has done it already? Non-issue. Firefly has high recognition here, but not in the general public and I strongly doubt prospective customers are going to pass on one of these bikes just because some other small company puts anodized logos on their bikes or did it first.

All that being said, these particular decals really turn me off. You have to see them in real life to see how bright they really are. Absolutely day-glow. The photos don't do them justice. Serotta Scott also had his day-glow green all-road Meivici hanging there and together the two bikes were overwhelming.

Serotta bikes are sophisticated and classy. These decals seem very much the opposite to me and I'm sure that the final ones can maintain the racy theme and be noticeable without looking like this. Perhaps rustylion can chime in here somewhere and update us.

My two cents . . .

BBD

[Nooch]

. . . like the idea of the anodizing, whether the subtle stripes or a total treatment with logos as well. I have no idea how expesnive it is vs. decals, though I'm certain it would be more expensive at the factory end. I also wonder about the ano process and how bright the colors can be made.

Getting rid of decals/stickers also gets rid of trashed decals/stickers. It keeps it a "hose it off and that's that" bike to clean up and that could be attractive to racers

To me, not being able to do it because Firefly has done it already? Non-issue. Firefly has high recognition here, but not in the general public and I strongly doubt prospective customers are going to pass on one of these bikes just because some other small company puts anodized logos on their bikes or did it first.

All that being said, these particular decals really turn me off. You have to see them in real life to see how bright they really are. Absolutely day-glow. The photos don't do them justice. Serotta Scott also had his day-glow green all-road Meivici hanging there and together the two bikes were overwhelming.

Serotta bikes are sophisticated and classy. These decals seem very much the opposite to me and I'm sure that the final ones can maintain the racy theme and be noticeable without looking like this. Perhaps rustylion can chime in here somewhere and update us.

My two cents . . .

BBD

SHock was telling me that there'd likely be a couple decal color offerings, and as far as rinsing it off and forgetting about it, he mentioned that if the decals get effed up, since they're not under clear or anything, it'd be an easy replacement..

i also think the issue with anodizing is that, if the whole thing is anodized, it might not be to everyone's taste and could conceivably keep people from buying, since they're not going to do multi-color anodizing a la firefly. SHock also told me that anodizing is subject to scratching, so there's that as well.. decals can be removed..

[timto]

That's a good looking bike. A little loud on the graphics I agree but very lust worthy! Where will it sit in the line up price wise? is it a peer to the fondo $$$ wise? (wishful thinking on my part)

[texbike]

I'm not a fan of the current decals either (WAY too big!), but man I REALLY like this bike. Simple with a purposeful aesthetic... I'd love to ride one.

Texbike

[christian]

That's great. I love it. I can see past the fork decal.

[BumbleBeeDave]

That's a good looking bike. A little loud on the graphics I agree but very lust worthy! Where will it sit in the line up price wise? is it a peer to the fondo $$$ wise? (wishful thinking on my part)

. . . is that it will be priced the same or very similar to the Fondo--full Ultegra build (including wheels) for $4300.

BBD

[Nooch]

. . . is that it will be priced the same or very similar to the Fondo--full Ultegra build (including wheels) for $4300.

BBD

and as shown with force and ksyriums for $4695. Frameset should be available for $3300, IIRC.

[EDS]

For the love of all things sacred lose the anodizing, reduce the size of the stickers and give people a few basic choices on sticker colors and call it a day.

I still think Serotta is shooting itself in the foot with the branding - it is such a stupid name, "Pronto", that it may turn people off and is certaintly not going to attract buyers. Same with Fondo.

Other than the tapered steerer, which is a no brainer and press fit BB which also makes sense if it is intended as a race bike, how is this different than the classique and HSG Ti that preceded it? Is the tubing different? How is it different then the Fondo other then geo?

[Nooch]

For the love of all things sacred lose the anodizing, reduce the size of the stickers and give people a few basic choices on sticker colors and call it a day.

I still think Serotta is shooting itself in the foot with the branding - it is such a stupid name, "Pronto", that it may turn people off and is certaintly not going to attract buyers. Same with Fondo.

Other than the tapered steerer, which is a no brainer and press fit BB which also makes sense if it is intended as a race bike, how is this different than the classique and HSG Ti that preceded it? Is the tubing different? How is it different then the Fondo other then geo?

It's the tubing. The fondo uses more tradational tubing to be move comfortable, this uses some big boy tubing to make it stiff. Different than the Legend, the legend uses double butted (IIRC - triple butted?) tubing, this is either straight guage, or I think they're trying to get to double butted, but keeping it in the price range is the hard part..

[BumbleBeeDave]

For the love of all things sacred lose the anodizing, reduce the size of the stickers and give people a few basic choices on sticker colors and call it a day.

. . . "sticking to all things sacred" has been one of their problems in the past. :)

BBD

[rpm]

The decals are truly hideous. The big white downtube decal on the other bike looks good; they should use that on the Pronto, with smaller white decals elsewhere, ala Moots.

Otherwise the bike is good. It should be positioned to go head-to-head with Moots.

[tiretrax]

I hope they keep the anodizing. It's very cool. The only sticker I don't mind is the one on the down tube. The fork legs and top tube make it look like a toy. That may be due to the color combination.

I alway liked the naked ti with blasted logos. I think that's much better looking and cooler than the matte black stealth look.

[Nooch]

I hope they keep the anodizing. It's very cool. The only sticker I don't mind is the one on the down tube. The fork legs and top tube make it look like a toy. That may be due to the color combination.

I alway liked the naked ti with blasted logos. I think that's much better looking and cooler than the matte black stealth look.

The new fork that's being designed won't have quite the same graphic treatment, but there was a reason this one did, as I alluded to previously.

[EDS]

The new fork that's being designed won't have quite the same graphic treatment, but there was a reason this one did, as I alluded to previously.

I didn't realize the ENVE logo was that big.

[Vientomas]

This comment goes only to the aesthetic of the decals. They look out of scale to the size of the frame tubes. As a result, in my opinion, the decals detract from the overall "look" of the bike. I humbly suggest that you re-think the font size of the decals.

[Joachim]

this uses some big boy tubing to make it stiff. Different than the Legend, the legend uses double butted (IIRC - triple butted?) tubing, this is either straight guage, or I think they're trying to get to double butted, but keeping it in the price range is the hard part..

For making a stiff frame the chainstays look really thin for Ti (or maybe its just the angle in the pic). Both Tom Kellogg and Dave Kirk have written extensively on chainstay size and stiffness. Or maybe they are solid Ti. I would like to know the diameter of the tubes.

[v531xc]

I'm also interested in the diameter of the tubes. The main triangle looks pretty oversized, particularly the OD of the headtube. In any case, that is a pretty conspicuous prototype. Looking forward to hearing more about this frame and the new fork.

-Varun

[William]

Loud and proud!!:cool:

I like the anodizing. I like the orange. The large "Pronto" not so much. Small and moved up the top tube is much better.

Big "S" on the HT....fine by me.

USA on the DT....fine by me.

"Serotta" on the forks? Maybe a wee bit smaller and I could live with it. I like the tapered nature of it though.

The "Serotta" on the DT? I like it and I hate it. Again, smaller Pronto and moved up....I like.


That was my $0.00. You got what you paid for.;)






William

[pdmtong]

. Serotta bikes are sophisticated and classy.

That's the kind of statement that led to where the brand is now.

A full gas race bike should scream full gas race bike - leave the fur coat on the legend with 18cm HT and make this bike look like it came to party hard.

I personally think the name pronto sounds dumb. but regarless of the name, i'd prefer screaming serotta decals and leave the model name somewhere else and smaller, or at least make the model name decal a different color so it doesnt compete with the serotta branding.

[Derailer]

The decals still need work, but I like this version of the Pronto much more than v.1 with the blue anodization. I offer this nitpick only because I believe that image is important and I am happy to see that Serotta is taking steps to modernize the look and branding of its bikes. Keep up the good work! :banana:

[BumbleBeeDave]

That's the kind of statement that led to where the brand is now.

BUT . . . to me these decals look like they were clipped out of sticker paper you buy at the craft store. Surely there's something that screams just as loud in a more artistic way? The C-Dale Evo Team also screams loud but looks a lot better, even in that horrid green. :p

BBD

[Nooch]

BUT . . . to me these decals look like they were clipped out of sticker paper you buy at the craft store. Surely there's something that screams just as loud in a more artistic way. The C-Dale Evo Team also screams loud but looks a lot better, even in that horrid green. :p

BBD

Dave, from what Scott told me, these were just vinyl for the prototype, not the refined decals for the finished product.. Just so they could pull em off and put em back on to work out the design.. so yeah, sticker paper.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I'll stop ranting now.

(I know, I know . . . promises, promises!)

BBD

[Steve in SLO]

Frame looks beautiful.

I'm not a fan of the oversized decals, either.
Perhaps ghosting them or draping a single decal over the top of the downtube would make it easier on the eye.

Also, and maybe more importantly: To move forward perhaps the Serotta logo needs a redo. While it no doubt looked forward-thinking in the 70's, time has moved on and it appears dated and somewhat homespun today.

[sg8357]

The big decals are part of the sponsorship package, you get $125 a year from Serotta. Dainty decals get no sponsorship money.

Be interesting to try a 650B conversion on that bike.:)

[monkeybanana86]

that bike looks good! the headtube would not work on a bike in my size

[pdmtong]

BUT . . . to me these decals look like they were clipped out of sticker paper you buy at the craft store. Surely there's something that screams just as loud in a more artistic way? The C-Dale Evo Team also screams loud but looks a lot better, even in that horrid green. :p

BBD

I attributed that the frame being a prototype.

BTW, no one blinked when sacha ran the speedvagen logo all the way up the fork and onto the headtube...shout it from the rooftops bay-bee.

[BumbleBeeDave]

A full gas race bike should scream full gas race bike.

. . . just a tiny bit understated. :rolleyes:

BBD

[MadRocketSci]

head tube size looks about perfect....old one too small for today's oversized tubing...1 1/8 to 1 1/2 steerer (and 44mm HT) is a huge jump in stiffness that makes sense only for the biggest frames

[Nooch]

the bike shown is a 58cm, for what it's worth..

[dd74]

I like it. Ghosting the decals would be interesting, but if this is a race bike, I can understand the (potential) garishness of showing who made the frame. Good job, Serotta!

[572cv]

I like the look of the frame proportions, first off. Eye catching and somehow classically grounded. The head tube looks like the master stroke, subtle but with a purpose. Graphics suggestions..... Try to develop more of a hierarchy of scale between the downtube ( largest) and the 'pronto' on the top tube? Also, consider moving the 'pronto' forward on the tube? Positioning for dynamic quality. Perhaps the logo on the head tube can be anodized or become a badge. That would limit the amount of extra detail work but add to the visual richness of the bike. No concerns here about color, and with decals there can be a choice or two, perhaps.
All in all, a huge , thoughtful effort from Serotta. If its as fast in real life as you were developing it, you have something really good going.

[Gummee]

http://chuck.kichline.com/bikes/Serotta/sir-rottn.jpg
This is what I think of when I think of 'racing Serotta.' Yeah, its day-glow but the stickers are tasteful for lack of a better word.

More recent:
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii145/landshark_98/Bike%20parts%20for%20sale/P1090031.jpg

Again with the more tasteful Serotta logos.

I get that times have changed, but that doesn't mean mega-super-oversized logos everywhere. There's other companies doing that. Stick with your roots and play up the past as it relates to the now. (if that makes sense)

M

[EDS]

I like it. Ghosting the decals would be interesting, but if this is a race bike, I can understand the (potential) garishness of showing who made the frame. Good job, Serotta!

Big decals are ok on race bikes only when they are attributable to a team/rider sponsor. If Joe Cat3racer pays full price for this he has no incentive to show-off who made the frame.

EDIT: I should add that the reason there are so many Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, etc. on the start line at local races is because many are provided free or at considerable discount to MSRP to the racer (by the bike sponsor or shop).

[dd74]

Big decals are ok on race bikes only when they are attributable to a team/rider sponsor. If Joe Cat3racer pays full price for this he has no incentive to show-off who made the frame.
Sure he does. The incentive is he's riding the same frame with the same livery that is a specified racing frame. Some guys like that stuff.

[EDS]

Sure he does. The incentive is he's riding the same frame with the same livery that is a specified racing frame. Some guys like that stuff.

Same livery of what? I could understand if you were saying someone wants a Specialized Venge with the same paint scheme as Tom Boonen. But that is not what a Pronto is.

The Pronto is only a race bike because that is how it is marketed - no different than any Specialized Tarmac, Trek Madone, Giant TCR, Cannondale Hi-Mod, etc, in every available color scheme.

[dd74]

Same livery of what? I could understand if you were saying someone wants a Specialized Venge with the same paint scheme as Tom Boonen. But that is not what a Pronto is.
So what is the Pronto, if not a race bike?


[/QUOTE] The Pronto is only a race bike because that is how it is marketed - no different than any Specialized Tarmac, Trek Madone, Giant TCR, Cannondale Hi-Mod, etc, in every available color scheme.[/QUOTE]
I thought you said above that the Pronto is not a race bike. Or did you mean the Pronto isn't a Specialized Venge? Well, yeah, that's obvious.

[EDS]

So what is the Pronto, if not a race bike?


The Pronto is only a race bike because that is how it is marketed - no different than any Specialized Tarmac, Trek Madone, Giant TCR, Cannondale Hi-Mod, etc, in every available color scheme.[/QUOTE]
I thought you said above that the Pronto is not a race bike. Or did you mean the Pronto isn't a Specialized Venge? Well, yeah, that's obvious.[/QUOTE]

The Pronto is a road bike. Plain and simple. Its geometry may make it a good choice for someone who likes to race, but that is no different than any other bike. Same with a Moots, a Specialized or Vanilla. The decals have nothing to do with it, and as such having big decals is of no value to anyone looking to purchase one for racing (unless they have been incentivized to promote the brand because of a team/shop deal).

If there were a professional team "Bear Stearns-Serotta" and their riders rode Prontos with a particular color scheme there may very well be some people that want to buy a replica of that team bike.

[dd74]

The Pronto is a road bike. Plain and simple. Its geometry may make it a good choice for someone who likes to race, but that is no different than any other bike. Same with a Moots, a Specialized or Vanilla. The decals have nothing to do with it, and as such having big decals is of no value to anyone looking to purchase one for racing (unless they have been incentivized to promote the brand because of a team/shop deal).

If there were a professional team "Bear Stearns-Serotta" and their riders rode Prontos with a particular color scheme there may very well be some people that want to buy a replica of that team bike.
So what is a race bike? Or is there no such thing as a race bike, in your estimation? Because when geometry is taken into consideration, one bike can definitely be "racier" than another.

[mike p]

I'll race that thing! It's the best thing I've seen out of the Serotta in a long time! Love the garish decals. After thirty five laps bikes blend together, helps your buds or family keep track of you. I'm interested to see the tubes dia. And price. Good start Serotta!

Mike

[pdmtong]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii145/landshark_98/Bike%20parts%20for%20sale/P1090031.jpg

see my KGSN ottrott here
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=113656&highlight=kodak

go fast? yea, go fast!

[54ny77]

That model would be totally overlevered.

:p

If there were a professional team "Bear Stearns-Serotta" and their riders rode Prontos with a particular color scheme there may very well be some people that want to buy a replica of that team bike.

[dd74]

That model would be totally overlevered.

:p
Hopefully the bikes will have a "bailout" gear. :eek:

[corky]

Major step forward ( catchup? ) for Serotta.

Minimal sloping top tube, larger tubing, updated graphics, maybe not everyone's taste judging by previous posts, but at least rying to do something more modern.

I would buy this.......

[AgilisMerlin]

i think that pronto' is exquisite :banana: nice job

Please think about this in 7005, i can dream can't I

http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/TUBES-ALUMINUM/

ex. fr/fork/hdst under 999$

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697854493&stc=1&d=1359719062

[rustylion]

Bill here from Serotta.

I thought I would speak a tiny bit and address the questions brought up in this thread.

The Pronto has traditional Ti compliance (high comfort) but will have added stiffness (high performance). The bike has passed testing but the geometry is still under discussion with Ben and Scott. Stay tuned.

The finish scheme you saw at Cyclesport (Thanks, Mike) was one of our prototype finishes. Some of you liked it; some of you didn't. What we heard at Cyclesport and read in this thread is that no matter what we do, not everyone will be happy! Stay tuned.

However, for the right person, the bike will look good and ride (fast) even better. We think it will be a "sweet bike" (Scott Hock's words not mine).

I promise to get Ben or Scott to add to this thread when we have a better handle on a few more details. They are meeting to get closer to a final design and final manufacturing date as I write this.

Thanks for listening.

[dd74]

Bill, any information about price point? Weight? EPS/Di2 compatible? Disc brakes, etc?

Thanks and good to hear from you.

[jpw]

Bill, any information about price point? Weight? EPS/Di2 compatible? Disc brakes, etc?

Thanks and good to hear from you.

I don't think it will be EPS/ Di2 compatible.

The Serotta website pushes hard against the idea of drilling wiring port holes in metal frames.

[oldpotatoe]

. . . is that it will be priced the same or very similar to the Fondo--full Ultegra build (including wheels) for $4300.

BBD

$3300 frame and $4300 bike with ultegra..the power of OE selling and buying, I guess.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't think it will be EPS/ Di2 compatible.

The Serotta website pushes hard against the idea of drilling wiring port holes in metal frames.

Once more, a frame doesn't need to have a bunch of holes drilled it to be 'Di2/EPS 'compatible'. ANY frame is Di2/EPS compatible.

Once upon a time, a long time ago, when Di2 first came out, all were installed external and gee, you couldn't even see the wires.

[dd74]

Once more, a frame doesn't need to have a bunch of holes drilled it to be 'Di2/EPS 'compatible'. ANY frame is Di2/EPS compatible.

Once upon a time, a long time ago, when Di2 first came out, all were installed external and gee, you couldn't even see the wires.
Yeah, but EPS is different. Shimano offers an external kit, which is very nice, for frames that aren't drilled. Campagnolo does not offer an external kit as it was always intended to be installed with the wires inside the frame. Sure, it'll work externally, particularly on a black bike where the wiring is camouflaged. But you're talking about a lot of tape and zip ties.

[dd74]

I don't think it will be EPS/ Di2 compatible.

The Serotta website pushes hard against the idea of drilling wiring port holes in metal frames.
I thought that was just for steel frames. Hmmm, haven't checked their site in a while.

[rustylion]

Price point starts at $3995 with a Rival build kit. There are a couple of other build kit options: Ultegra $4295 and Force $4695.

This is a titanium frame. As you know, we are still not sure drilling titanium for EPS/Di2 is a good idea. We do have an external option for the Legend SE and SG but we are not considering that for the Pronto right now.

Weight is still not set. We tested one design, had a weight and then had an idea that would reduce it by 200g. So, now, we need to build some of those lighter frames, ride them and test them. Adds extra time but might be a cool idea. Laughing, Scott told me, "Between 10 and 20 lbs." "Yeah, haha, thanks" I said.

No plans for disc brakes on the Pronto. We have a prototype disc brake bike that we are riding. There are lots of design/engineering issues with disc brakes on a road bike. Ben is working on them but without solution that I am aware of.

I appreciate the questions.

Bill, any information about price point? Weight? EPS/Di2 compatible? Disc brakes, etc?

Thanks and good to hear from you.

[FlashUNC]

Yeah, but EPS is different. Shimano offers an external kit, which is very nice, for frames that aren't drilled. Campagnolo does not offer an external kit as it was always intended to be installed with the wires inside the frame. Sure, it'll work externally, particularly on a black bike where the wiring is camouflaged. But you're talking about a lot of tape and zip ties.

Someone else chime in, but if my memory of the EPS install videos is correct, there's one cable from the bars to the battery/brain, and then one each from the brain to each of the derailleurs.

That's not exactly a rat's nest like what's behind my TV stand.

[jpw]

Once more, a frame doesn't need to have a bunch of holes drilled it to be 'Di2/EPS 'compatible'. ANY frame is Di2/EPS compatible.

Once upon a time, a long time ago, when Di2 first came out, all were installed external and gee, you couldn't even see the wires.

http://serotta.com/bicycles/viaggio-se/


"But don’t ask for…
Internal electronic routing. We don’t recommend drilling extra holes in metal frames, particularly on a travel bike. It’s simply not a good idea to weaken a frame. Take it as a bit of wisdom from a company that has built thousands of frames over four decades. The nicest way to enjoy your bicycle is to be able to ride it with everything working. We’re not being old fashioned, just wise."

[dd74]

Someone else chime in, but if my memory of the EPS install videos is correct, there's one cable from the bars to the battery/brain, and then one each from the brain to each of the derailleurs.

That's not exactly a rat's nest like what's behind my TV stand.
The problem with EPS Campy doesn't provide cabling dependent on frame size. So it's a one length fits all series of wires. If you have a small frame, which I have, yes, EPS is close to a rat's nest, but a rat's nest that's certainly worth the end result in performance.

[Black Dog]

http://serotta.com/bicycles/viaggio-se/


"But don’t ask for…
Internal electronic routing. We don’t recommend drilling extra holes in metal frames, particularly on a travel bike. It’s simply not a good idea to weaken a frame. Take it as a bit of wisdom from a company that has built thousands of frames over four decades. The nicest way to enjoy your bicycle is to be able to ride it with everything working. We’re not being old fashioned, just wise."

Are the water bottle bosses not holes in a frame? The holes need not be at the joints but why would they cause an issue any more so than the other hole that a frame already has?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Are the water bottle bosses not holes in a frame? The holes need not be at the joints but why would they cause an issue any more so than the other hole that a frame already has?

. . . of any kind of frame break that seemed to originate at one of the water bottle bosses as a stress riser. But I can certainly sign onto the idea that the more holes you drill in the frame, the more chance there is of something starting.

Check out the pic at the bottom of this post from the Firefly thread . . .

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1272232&postcount=395

There's 3 holes drilled right in a row in the bottom of the BB shell. I'm assuming that Tyler & Co. know what they are doing, but I've never seen anything like that before and how do you do an advance on test something like that over a lifetime for a Ti bike, which doesn't rust and could theoretically last forever?

Add to the water bottle bosses a hole in front and back of top tube for the rear brake cable, holes for the EPS/Di2 shift wires, and another holes in the seat tube for the FD wire to exit and one in the right chainstay for the RD to exit and that starts to add up to a lotta holes!

BBD

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah, but EPS is different. Shimano offers an external kit, which is very nice, for frames that aren't drilled. Campagnolo does not offer an external kit as it was always intended to be installed with the wires inside the frame. Sure, it'll work externally, particularly on a black bike where the wiring is camouflaged. But you're talking about a lot of tape and zip ties.

Well, what ever. i installed more than a few Di2 on frames w/o holes..under the downtube, under the RH chainstay, it's no big deal. No worse than wired cadence or first gen Powertap which isn't any big deal either.

But there is no such thing as a frame that isn't 'Di2/EPS compatible'.

[jpw]

. . . of any kind of frame break that seemed to originate at one of the water bottle bosses as a stress riser. But I can certainly sign onto the idea that the more holes you drill in the frame, the more chance there is of something starting.

Check out the pic at the bottom of this post from the Firefly thread . . .

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1272232&postcount=395

There's 3 holes drilled right in a row in the bottom of the BB shell. I'm assuming that Tyler & Co. know what they are doing, but I've never seen anything like that before and how do you do an advance on test something like that over a lifetime for a Ti bike, which doesn't rust and could theoretically last forever?

Add to the water bottle bosses a hole in front and back of top tube for the rear brake cable, holes for the EPS/Di2 shift wires, and another holes in the seat tube for the FD wire to exit and one in the right chainstay for the RD to exit and that starts to add up to a lotta holes!

BBD

the Swiss cheese of bicycle frames. the bb looks nicely done, but a crack line just has to form along the line of the three holes at some point in time.

[happycampyer]

http://serotta.com/bicycles/viaggio-se/


"But don’t ask for…
Internal electronic routing. We don’t recommend drilling extra holes in metal frames, particularly on a travel bike. It’s simply not a good idea to weaken a frame. Take it as a bit of wisdom from a company that has built thousands of frames over four decades. The nicest way to enjoy your bicycle is to be able to ride it with everything working. We’re not being old fashioned, just wise."This is a perfect example of what is so frustrating about Serotta. I have spoken about this issue with Scott Hock on several occasions going back about a year or so, when I asked about whether they would build a Legend for EPS. The problem as I understand it is that, when they put ti frames with Di2/EPS drilling on the test jig, they fail after what Serotta considers an unacceptable number of cycles (which is not the case with the Ottrott or the MeiVici drilled for Di2/EPS, and it's not as if Serotta doesn't know how to reinforce a hole in a titanium frame). But instead of saying so point-blank, the come out with these trite statements that are on their website.

[jpw]

This is a perfect example of what is so frustrating about Serotta. I have spoken about this issue with Scott Hock on several occasions going back about a year or so, when I asked about whether they would build a Legend for EPS. The problem as I understand it is that, when they put ti frames with Di2/EPS drilling on the test jig, they fail after what Serotta considers an unacceptable number of cycles (which is not the case with the Ottrott or the MeiVici drilled for Di2/EPS, and it's not as if Serotta doesn't know how to reinforce a hole in a titanium frame). But instead of saying so point-blank, the come out with these trite statements that are on their website.

Where on a Legend frame would Di2/ EPS holes fail under stress testing?

[BumbleBeeDave]

the Swiss cheese of bicycle frames. the bb looks nicely done, but a crack line just has to form along the line of the three holes at some point in time.

That was my worry precisely.

BBD

[Tyler Evans]

the Swiss cheese of bicycle frames. the bb looks nicely done, but a crack line just has to form along the line of the three holes at some point in time.

Not gonna happen.

[BumbleBeeDave]

This is a perfect example of what is so frustrating about Serotta. I have spoken about this issue with Scott Hock on several occasions going back about a year or so, when I asked about whether they would build a Legend for EPS. The problem as I understand it is that, when they put ti frames with Di2/EPS drilling on the test jig, they fail after what Serotta considers an unacceptable number of cycles (which is not the case with the Ottrott or the MeiVici drilled for Di2/EPS, and it's not as if Serotta doesn't know how to reinforce a hole in a titanium frame). But instead of saying so point-blank, the come out with these trite statements that are on their website.

. . . would a Ti frame need to be reinforced near the drilled holes for it to not fail? Lateral ribs? Longitudinal ribs? A specially tooled collar around the tube? I know nothing about the required engineering--it might be more difficult than we think?

BBD

[jpw]

Not gonna happen.

how old is the first frame you made this way?

[dd74]

Well, what ever. i installed more than a few Di2 on frames w/o holes..under the downtube, under the RH chainstay, it's no big deal. No worse than wired cadence or first gen Powertap which isn't any big deal either.
Like I said, Shimano offers an external kit for their Di2. Campagnolo does not, and has no plans to. My LBS has a Serotta with Di2, but the install was done with an external kit from Shimano which comprised lengths of wiring cut by Shimano specifically for the frame's size. It was a very nice and neat install.

But there is no such thing as a frame that isn't 'Di2/EPS compatible'.
According to Campagnolo, there are frames that aren't compatible with EPS. Under Campy's breath, they say sure, run EPS externally, but that's the Sales Department talking. The Engineers seem to have a different viewpoint.

[tsarpepe]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5318/5903077108_298820df0a_z.jpg[/QUOTE]

This bike is the only one on which I give Serotta designers an A. Here, at last, the decals are done right. Everything that came before (and now after, with the Pronto) looks amateurish.

[Jason E]

Really time to keep the "S" for the headtube and find a new font.

uugghh...

[dd74]

This is a perfect example of what is so frustrating about Serotta. I have spoken about this issue with Scott Hock on several occasions going back about a year or so, when I asked about whether they would build a Legend for EPS. The problem as I understand it is that, when they put ti frames with Di2/EPS drilling on the test jig, they fail after what Serotta considers an unacceptable number of cycles (which is not the case with the Ottrott or the MeiVici drilled for Di2/EPS, and it's not as if Serotta doesn't know how to reinforce a hole in a titanium frame). But instead of saying so point-blank, the come out with these trite statements that are on their website.
Steel and Ti are different from Carbon. The holes are reinforced with some sort of boss once they're drilled. Calfee, for instance, says they will drill any Carbon frame for Di2/EPS, but never Steel or Ti simply 'cause ribbing reinforcement might be involved at the drill point, and it's their POV that this ribbing not be upset in anyway. With Carbon, the drilling is much less troublesome.

I don't blame Serotta for not getting into this game. A lot of U.S. builders aren't onboard with Di2/EPS for their Steel and Ti frames. Those who are, like Cinelli (who also offer a warranty), will get the missed electronic market share other builders have passed up, which is a market share that has increased as the price of electronic groupsets go down.

[Tyler Evans]

how old is the first frame you made this way?

The first titanium frame I made was in 1995 (@ Merlin Metalworks). This was also the first frame I drilled a hole in (water bottle holes and purge holes in tubes as thin as .023"). Never seen one crack from a hole I drilled... 10,000 plus frames later. Those H2O holes also had threaded riv-nuts compressed into them (which technically stressed the tube).

The frame you speak of was made about 6 months ago. The position of these holes will not lead to a crack given the thickness of the material drilled into, the orientation and the fact that that tube (BB) is under compression and is not torqued.

The holes we drill for electronic ports at higher stressed areas are gusseted.

Just sayin'.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8293418471_3aa94365f6_c.jpg

[dd74]

Tyler, does it matter if the hole for the brain is drilled on the top of the downtube or underneath the downtube? Does one or the other (drilling top or bottom) provide less stress, if any, to the downtube?

[happycampyer]

Where on a Legend frame would Di2/ EPS holes fail under stress testing?I didn't get into those specifics, i.e., where did the cracks start to form, where were the holes drilled, etc. I do know that they have destroyed a number of frames in the process of testing different drillings, and each time the frame failed after a number of cycles that Serotta deems unacceptable. Is their standard too high? I couldn't say.

. . . would a Ti frame need to be reinforced near the drilled holes for it to not fail? Lateral ribs? Longitudinal ribs? A specially tooled collar around the tube? I know nothing about the required engineering--it might be more difficult than we think?

BBDWhat I meant was, Serotta knows to reinforce holes like water bottle bosses, etc., the way that other builders who offer ti frames drilled for Di2/EPS do. What was interesting to me was how much stronger in tests the carbon/ti bond of an Ottrott was than plain ti tubing.

[Tyler Evans]

Tyler, does it matter if the hole for the brain is drilled on the top of the downtube or underneath the downtube? Does one or the other (drilling top or bottom) provide less stress, if any, to the downtube?

Top or bottom is more-or-less the same stress.

[happycampyer]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5318/5903077108_298820df0a_z.jpg

This bike is the only one on which I give Serotta designers an A. Here, at last, the decals are done right. Everything that came before (and now after, with the Pronto) looks amateurish.[/QUOTE]And btw, I agree that the Pronto should look just like this.

[dd74]

Top or bottom is more-or-less the same stress.
Thanks, man. BTW, I PM'd you a question.

[BumbleBeeDave]

The holes we drill for electronic ports at higher stressed areas are gusseted.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8293418471_3aa94365f6_c.jpg

. . . and it sounds like Tyler & Co. have allowed for reinforcement.

BBD

[Serotta_Carbon]

[QUOTE=happycampyer;1290084]I didn't get into those specifics, i.e., where did the cracks start to form, where were the holes drilled, etc. I do know that they have destroyed a number of frames in the process of testing different drillings, and each time the frame failed after a number of cycles that Serotta deems unacceptable. Is their standard too high? I couldn't say.

I can address the question regarding Serotta's test standards. We test the frames & forks to industry standard CEN14781. The parts either pass or fail the tests. Typically 100k cycles for a fatigue test...

Is this standard too high? It's a fair question but one that's hard to answer. Better to error on the side of safety.

We do testing both in house and using independant labs to verify our results. In discussions with the techs at the independant labs I've been told that I'd be shocked at how many brands have struggled with trying to get their DI2 prepped frames to pass this test.

[mike p]

This is nice but Serotta built tons of gorgeous legends, CRL's, CSI's, and colorado's. Tons of them.

Mike

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5318/5903077108_298820df0a_z.jpg

This bike is the only one on which I give Serotta designers an A. Here, at last, the decals are done right. Everything that came before (and now after, with the Pronto) looks amateurish.[/QUOTE]

[mike p]

The BB shell on any steel or Ti bike is much heavier than the other tube. We've all seem BB's with massive cut out's that are 30 years old and going strong.

Mike

[bironi]

The Pronto is ugly. That will not sell.

[tsarpepe]

The Pronto is definitely the ugliest Serotta ever made. It looks as if someone got oversized decals and applied them at home at first try. The ones on the fork are hideous. No person with aesthetic sense could have looked at this and said: let's put this into production.

[mike p]

Different strokes and all that but with the exception of the Pronto on the TT I think that things hot! I'd love to race that. They should do a couple other colors....lime green, pink, and screaming yellow. Their race bikes they should shout RACE!

Mike

[BumbleBeeDave]

The Pronto is definitely the ugliest Serotta ever made. It looks as if someone got oversized decals and applied them at home at first try. The ones on the fork are hideous. No person with aesthetic sense could have looked at this and said: let's put this into production.

They already said that isn't the final color scheme.

BBD

[Hawker]

Agree with most everyone else that the orange letters are too large, and I understand this was just a Mock-up. I don't mind bright colors against the grey background but just don't make them neon bright. It's already out of fashion and will really "age" the bike. It would be nice if they would offer the lettering in white as an option to whatever color the decide on. The white may appeal to those of us who are a bit older and prefer things just a bit more subdued. Also would much rather see the fork sans labeling or keep it small.

Last, I think Pronto is a bit corny but I understand that it seems to work with Fondo. However the derivation of both words sounds European and when I think of Serotta the FIRST thing I think of is USA. So how about names that are more synonymous with the U.S.? Much easier said than done I know, so I'll toss out a couple. Crit and Century.

Good luck guys!

[bironi]

Even when squinting hard - it is hard to look at. Maybe a shot without the fork turned would help, but the straight fork with ugly graphics bends my mind. Hey, I opted to leave all the Moots decals off my Vamoots and nothing was lost. Show us the bare frame, then several options of decals. Put em on, take a pic, take em off....etc.

[tsarpepe]

They already said that isn't the final color scheme.

BBD

Ah, OK, let's hope they get it right.

[jpw]

I can address the question regarding Serotta's test standards. We test the frames & forks to industry standard CEN14781. The parts either pass or fail the tests. Typically 100k cycles for a fatigue test...



how many miles could 100k cycles amount to out on the road or trail?

[jpw]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=608680985814687&set=a.599454523404000.152759.119812894701501&type=1&theater

are these wiring port holes that i can see in this Meivici?

[oldpotatoe]

Someone else chime in, but if my memory of the EPS install videos is correct, there's one cable from the bars to the battery/brain, and then one each from the brain to each of the derailleurs.

That's not exactly a rat's nest like what's behind my TV stand.

Wires from levers to interface box up by stem, one wire from that to battery(hard wired), wires from FD and RD to battery, hard wired.

It's not a big deal, was not designed 'to be routed internal' only, can be put on any frame.

[oldpotatoe]

The problem with EPS Campy doesn't provide cabling dependent on frame size. So it's a one length fits all series of wires. If you have a small frame, which I have, yes, EPS is close to a rat's nest, but a rat's nest that's certainly worth the end result in performance.

They offer one length with extensions for really big frames, between the battery and the interface unit.

Rat's nest-

[oldpotatoe]

This is a perfect example of what is so frustrating about Serotta. I have spoken about this issue with Scott Hock on several occasions going back about a year or so, when I asked about whether they would build a Legend for EPS. The problem as I understand it is that, when they put ti frames with Di2/EPS drilling on the test jig, they fail after what Serotta considers an unacceptable number of cycles (which is not the case with the Ottrott or the MeiVici drilled for Di2/EPS, and it's not as if Serotta doesn't know how to reinforce a hole in a titanium frame). But instead of saying so point-blank, the come out with these trite statements that are on their website.

May be an issue with the tube supplier serotta uses but on ti frames i have 'seen', having the builder drill some wee holes for these wires is really not a big deal, IMHO.

[oldpotatoe]

Like I said, Shimano offers an external kit for their Di2. Campagnolo does not, and has no plans to. My LBS has a Serotta with Di2, but the install was done with an external kit from Shimano which comprised lengths of wiring cut by Shimano specifically for the frame's size. It was a very nice and neat install.


According to Campagnolo, there are frames that aren't compatible with EPS. Under Campy's breath, they say sure, run EPS externally, but that's the Sales Department talking. The Engineers seem to have a different viewpoint.

Last post on this smelling horse.

Campagnolo test set for EPS, was NOT on a bike frame, in a fish tank under water, and tested for more than a few hours to ensure it's waterproof.

Yep, shimano makes the doohicky under the BB guide as a junction box, not found on their internal Di2 wiring harness. Campagnolo has never seen the need for that since their wiring harness is so durable.

What makes a frame incompatible with EPS is the rear der hanger, length, angle and front der brazeon position, angle, distances, NOT the wiring harness.

[jpw]

May be an issue with the tube supplier serotta uses but on ti frames i have 'seen', having the builder drill some wee holes for these wires is really not a big deal, IMHO.

from memory, aren't there weld gas venting holes in a Legend bb shell that could allow for internal cable routing using the Calfee option, through the seat tube, the chain stay, and the down tube? it would only require a hole through the lower ear of the dropout to connect to the RD (which seems a popular approach with other manufacturers), a single hole in the st to connect to the FD, and a
single hole in the dt to reach the switch box at the stem.

[happycampyer]

May be an issue with the tube supplier serotta uses but on ti frames i have 'seen', having the builder drill some wee holes for these wires is really not a big deal, IMHO.This discussion is OT and probably would be worth its own thread, but I'd be very curious to know whether Moots and other builders test their frames to the CEN14781 standard and, if so, how their Di2 versions fared. I would be surprised if the issue is related to the ti itself, but perhaps to the thickness of the tube where the holes are being drilled? Tyler has been very generous with his time as always, perhaps he would be willing to chime in about the testing that Firefly does.

[dd74]

What makes a frame incompatible with EPS is the rear der hanger, length, angle and front der brazeon position, angle, distances, NOT the wiring harness.
Really? I would think it would be the wiring hanging out all over the downtube, wrapped around the bottom bracket, duct taped or zip tied to the seat tube and down the distance of the right-side chainstay that would make a frame incompatible, seeing how that is not the way Campagnolo intended their EPS system be installed.

[oldpotatoe]

Really? I would think it would be the wiring hanging out all over the downtube, wrapped around the bottom bracket, duct taped or zip tied to the seat tube and down the distance of the right-side chainstay that would make a frame incompatible, seeing how that is not the way Campagnolo intended their EPS system be installed.

Yep, that's how I install it, duct tape..don't leave home w/o it.

Incompatible to me means you cannot install this group onto a non drilled frame..incompatible, meaning it will not work. Doubt Campagnolo would purposely eliminate a whole bunch of frames for their new, signature gruppo.

Looking at the wee wires, where they come and go, it just isn't that big of a deal. BTW-the MOST time spent on building a new EPS/Di2 bicycle is stringing the wires into/thruout the frame..THAT takes a long time.

I'm out.

[cfox]

I have an Indy Fab Ti Crown Jewel drilled for internal Di2. Firefly, and I'm assuming Moots, have done it as well. Ti tubes have thicker walls than most steel bikes. Most Ti bikes have bottle bosses made up of a drilled holes and rivnuts (drilled in the thinnest two sections of tubing found on a bike). I can't possibly see how an internal set up on a Serotta Ti bike would realistically compromise the safety of the bike in any real-world application.

p.s. I like the new bike, loud graphics and all. Anything other than a deviation from their recent past is a waste of time.

[jpw]

No plans for disc brakes on the Pronto. We have a prototype disc brake bike that we are riding. There are lots of design/engineering issues with disc brakes on a road bike. Ben is working on them but without solution that I am aware of.

I appreciate the questions.


If i might ask, which production models is this disc brake development work for?

[rustylion]

There is no production model, as such, that we are specifically working towards.

We have built lots of prototypes that we get to ride here everyday. It is kind of our mini "Bell Lab" sandbox where we get to play out our dreams while riding cool and interesting bikes.

The disc brake road bike is one of our "Bell Lab" bikes. I only mentioned it earlier in this thread because someone asked if we would be offering a disc brake version of the Pronto. My answer was to clarify that we are not yet sure where disc brakes even fit into the road bike universe. There are lots of issues.

Thanks for asking.

If i might ask, which production models is this disc brake development work for?

[Nooch]

There is no production model, as such, that we are specifically working towards.

We have built lots of prototypes that we get to ride here everyday. It is kind of our mini "Bell Lab" sandbox where we get to play out our dreams while riding cool and interesting bikes.

The disc brake road bike is one of our "Bell Lab" bikes. I only mentioned it earlier in this thread because someone asked if we would be offering a disc brake version of the Pronto. My answer was to clarify that we are not yet sure where disc brakes even fit into the road bike universe. There are lots of issues.

Thanks for asking.


I'd be hard pressed to say that there are 'issues' with disc brakes on road bikes -- complications, sure, but I think Dave Kirk has showed that there's no real 'issue' with discs... whether its something useful, or something people want, that's the real question.. I don't know if Dave goes through the same fatigue testing that you guys do, maybe he can chime in, and maybe that's where the issues arrise.. who knows?

to the person who asked about discs on a pronto, well, I'd have to say that I don't think this is that kind of bike -- this is a race bike. race geometry, race stiffness, light weight. why bulk it up with discs? Perhaps the Fondo might be a bike that discs might be useful, lots of climbing and descending on those long comfortable rides, but on the Pronto? Nah :)

[Serotta_Carbon]

how many miles could 100k cycles amount to out on the road or trail?

It's not so much about the miles per se. One rider's 50k may be much more severe than anothers...

The tests we run are considered to be accelerated fatigue tests designed to expose weakness in design, materials, and fabrication in a reasonable length of time. To make a decently made frame fail in a reasonable length of time the tests use what some folks might consider unrealistic forces and constraints. This exposes the weak points in hours/days versus weeks or longer allowing a larger sample size to be tested. Better to test more than one...

[rustylion]

Nooch,

I don't quite agree with you that there are not issues with disc brakes on road bikes. I can't speak for any other builder and my disclaimer is that I have never designed, engineered or built a bike in my life. But, I think I can say we are sure that designing the brake systems themselves is still being finalized by the component manufacturers. Once they are done and we know what we are dealing with, then we have to figure out if there are frame-related engineering issues when we hang a disc brake system on one-side of a fork and/or stay. Yes, it is one of the newest, hot crazes in road biking and yes, they have already been used on mountain bikes...but, neither of those make this a no-brainer on road bikes. Well, at least not ours.

And, yes, even though we don't have plans at the moment for adding these to the upcoming Pronto, if disc brakes make it to road race bikes, it might make sense in the future. why? well, after a long climb (say in the Alps, Rockies, Adirondacks, you name them), there always seems to be a long (and fast) descent. You sure want to be using some awesome brakes in order to get to the bottom quickly and safely! Braking in crit racing is one thing; road racing another.

I'd be hard pressed to say that there are 'issues' with disc brakes on road bikes -- complications, sure, but I think Dave Kirk has showed that there's no real 'issue' with discs... whether its something useful, or something people want, that's the real question.. I don't know if Dave goes through the same fatigue testing that you guys do, maybe he can chime in, and maybe that's where the issues arrise.. who knows?

to the person who asked about discs on a pronto, well, I'd have to say that I don't think this is that kind of bike -- this is a race bike. race geometry, race stiffness, light weight. why bulk it up with discs? Perhaps the Fondo might be a bike that discs might be useful, lots of climbing and descending on those long comfortable rides, but on the Pronto? Nah :)

[Nooch]

Nooch,

I don't quite agree with you that there are not issues with disc brakes on road bikes. I can't speak for any other builder and my disclaimer is that I have never designed, engineered or built a bike in my life. But, I think I can say we are sure that designing the brake systems themselves is still being finalized by the component manufacturers. Once they are done and we know what we are dealing with, then we have to figure out if there are frame-related engineering issues when we hang a disc brake system on one-side of a fork and/or stay. Yes, it is one of the newest, hot crazes in road biking and yes, they have already been used on mountain bikes...but, neither of those make this a no-brainer on road bikes. Well, at least not ours.

And, yes, even though we don't have plans at the moment for adding these to the upcoming Pronto, if disc brakes make it to road race bikes, it might make sense in the future. why? well, after a long climb (say in the Alps, Rockies, Adirondacks, you name them), there always seems to be a long (and fast) descent. You sure want to be using some awesome brakes in order to get to the bottom quickly and safely! Braking in crit racing is one thing; road racing another.

Ahh, I see what you're saying, Bill. I just know that there are quite a few builders putitng out disc-road bikes, and the big companies have been doing disc cx, that it just seems so common place. Now, the fact that the options aren't the greatest, most attractive, etc, makes sense..

and in other news: http://serotta.com/va-va-voom-it-give-me-feevah/

[Bostic]

When will the geometry chart be available? I'm torn as I've always wanted a Serotta Legend Ti in 'Serotta Blue' like this:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/68/201994475_0af5dde309_z.jpg

The price though would lead me to sell off my fleet to afford one whereas the Pronto is less expensive and might be my ticket into the Serotta world.

[BumbleBeeDave]

The price though would lead me to sell off my fleet to afford one whereas the Pronto is less expensive and might be my ticket into the Serotta world.

. . . that's exactly what they were intending! :)

BBD

[rustylion]

We intend to have the Pronto geometry done before Scott leaves on his GPM10 Mallorca trip later this month (watch for his blog posts and photos on www.serotta.com). So, let's say it'll be available if not the last week of February then the 1st week of March.

Thanks for asking.

When will the geometry chart be available? I'm torn as I've always wanted a Serotta Legend Ti in 'Serotta Blue' like this:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/68/201994475_0af5dde309_z.jpg

The price though would lead me to sell off my fleet to afford one whereas the Pronto is less expensive and might be my ticket into the Serotta world.

[fiamme red]

Price point starts at $3995 with a Rival build kit. There are a couple of other build kit options: Ultegra $4295 and Force $4695.http://serotta.com/va-va-voom-it-give-me-feevah/

"Complete bikes will start at $4,295 with full team livery paint, while the OMG component kit will top out at $7,995."

Error?

[Nooch]

http://serotta.com/va-va-voom-it-give-me-feevah/

"Complete bikes will start at $4,295 with full team livery paint, while the OMG component kit will top out at $7,995."

Error?

No, no error. that's with ultegra and ultegra wheels. Force with ksyriums will be $4695, IIRC.

[Joachim]

Awesome! Double butted, 12 sizes, matte finish or two painted with a S5 tapered fork. Can't wait to see the geometry.

[rpm]

One thing to consider with the new standard models is that the component kits make them a good deal for a complete bike. Their kits don't have any no-name or house branded parts. You get an Ultegra crank on the Ultregra kit and not an FSA gossamer or the like, and the wheels are decent. Compare to the Seven, Specialized and others, and the complete bike deal is competitive or better.

You don't think of Serotta as competing on price, but they actually do in this case. I also find the blue anodizing on the Fondo to be very attractive. The prototype Pronto was ugly, but maybe the decals will be fixed for production.

[54ny77]

sounds great, hope they sell a ton of 'em and develop a whole new generation of serotta fans. go get 'em!

[Elefantino]

sounds great, hope they sell a ton of 'em and develop a whole new generation of serotta fans. go get 'em!
+1 :banana:

[avalonracing]

This has been a fun thread to read through.
The Pronto looks interesting and it seems like it will be at a competitive price point. As someone who is a big fan of Ti race bikes with oversized tubes (like my TK designed Merlin Works CR) I like the direction that this is going.

I have said before that if it is marketed correctly and its attributes EXPLAINED to the bike racers/buyers/riders Ti should be the material that people want to be on.

Sure you can find shots of titanium failure on bikes but I've never seen a woman ride a Ti bike off road on to a soft shoulder at 15mph and have it crack in half the way that my friend's wife did with her carbon Cannondale. And I know that there are a lot more carbon bikes at the local races than ti bikes but I can't begin to count the number of cracked up carbon bikes I've seen go to the scrap pile. Sure they can ride great but so does Ti and if I'm going to drop $5K on a bike I want something that is going to stick around for a bit.

As for the big logo on the DT... I think it can be an interesting way to say that "Serotta Competition Bicycles is back and they're not just for dentists anymore". Hell, I'm sure they can find a Category I racer who is a dentist and write an add around them that reads: "Sure dentists ride Serottas... And some of them aren't even Category I racers".

That said, maybe it is time for a freshening up of the Serotta logo font. Nothing radical but an update that is current, yet classic. I think one of the reason that people have no problem with the giant Speedvagen or Baum logos is because of the clean, modern type treatment used in the logo.

-Robb