Wheels Mfg Pressfit 30 Adapter for Campagnolo Cranks

[Tony T]

Has anyone tried this (as an alternative to the Campy PF Cups)?
Wheels Mfg Pressfit 30 Adapter for Campagnolo Cranks (http://wheelsmfg.com/products/bottom-brackets-front-drivetrain/pressfit-30-adapter-for-campagnolo-cranks.html)

[ultraman6970]

That product looks quite solid

[cfox]

Weird. Why not just make cups that press into a PF30 shell? With that system, you need two adapters; one that presses into the PF30 shell (simulating a BB30) and then one that adapts your now BB30 shell back to PF30 to fit the Campy cranks. The Campy PF30 cups press directly into the PF30 shell, and then you're done.

[shovelhd]

I use the Wheels Mfg. GXP->BB30 adapters on my race bike. Well made, solid. No issues.

[Tony T]

Weird. Why not just make cups that press into a PF30 shell? With that system, you need two adapters; one that presses into the PF30 shell (simulating a BB30) and then one that adapts your now BB30 shell back to PF30 to fit the Campy cranks. The Campy PF30 cups press directly into the PF30 shell, and then you're done.

Unless they Campy PF30 pulls out. ;)

[nicrump]

it works like a champ IMO. just make sure your BB shell is not under 68mm or you will get the knocks.

ps, you will be running double bearings though.

[Tony T]

ps, you will be running double bearings though.

Yeah, I thought that was odd when I read about it on the Wheels Mfg site.
Is there any disadvantage to this?

[nicrump]

Yeah, I thought that was odd when I read about it on the Wheels Mfg site.
Is there any disadvantage to this?

none that i know of functionally. might add a few grams.

[Adam]

I believe that Parlee is making a nice PF30/Campy adaptor that will not use the double bearing and has nice deep shoulders to press in and stabilize everything.

I only see Shimano stuff listed on the site currently, but I did talk with the inside guys there and know that it will be available.

[Tony T]

I believe that Parlee is making a nice PF30/Campy adaptor that will not use the double bearing and has nice deep shoulders to press in and stabilize everything.

I only see Shimano stuff listed on the site currently, but I did talk with the inside guys there and know that it will be available.


They do look promising. An email to info@parleecycles.com got me the info I needed on availability.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/483631_10151192342837746_217802275_n.jpg

[cfox]

They do look promising. Any idea when they'll be available?

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/29554_535442343133568_297485941_n.jpg

those look like the ticket. I like the deeper shoulders vs. the campy cups. I had a PF30 with Campy. When I first got the bike, the shell wasn't faced squarely and the cups pulled out a bit and formed a gap with the shell. Once I faced the shell properly, the cups (Campy) stayed put. I can't stress how important it is to have the shell NASA-spec square. You have to be careful not to take too much material off the shell faces or else the shell may become narrower than spec for Ultra-Torque.

[Tony T]

Yeah, they look like they'll solve my problem.
An email to info@parleecycles.com got me the info I needed.

[krismac23]

A company called c-bear does a sweet job in making ceramic hybrid bb adapters of all kinds. They have one for this. I run their bb30 bearings on my C'dale and its sweet. World of a difference.

[oldpotatoe]

Has anyone tried this (as an alternative to the Campy PF Cups)?
Wheels Mfg Pressfit 30 Adapter for Campagnolo Cranks (http://wheelsmfg.com/products/bottom-brackets-front-drivetrain/pressfit-30-adapter-for-campagnolo-cranks.html)

What's your 'problem' with the Campagnolo made cups that press into PF BB30 and BB30?

[Lionel]

What's your 'problem' with the Campagnolo made cups that press into PF BB30 and BB30?

these campy PF30 cups just pull out of BB. At least mine did on a carbon shell.

[dvs cycles]

Has anyone tried this (as an alternative to the Campy PF Cups)?
Wheels Mfg Pressfit 30 Adapter for Campagnolo Cranks (http://wheelsmfg.com/products/bottom-brackets-front-drivetrain/pressfit-30-adapter-for-campagnolo-cranks.html)I have the shimano version on my EVO and seems fine but only 500 miles on it so far.
Downside with the Campy version is an extra set of bearings to pack around.

[oldpotatoe]

these campy PF30 cups just pull out of BB. At least mine did on a carbon shell.

Then I suspect it's a problem with the frame shell. I have installed a lot of these cups, BB30, PF BB30, BBRight(wrong!), into a lot of frames and they needed a press to get 'em in.

[Lionel]

Mine needed a press as well. This is a pretty well known issue at this point. Lots of reports of issues. My frame was converted to bsc by Nick. Problem solved forever.

[Tony T]

Then I suspect it's a problem with the frame shell. I have installed a lot of these cups, BB30, PF BB30, BBRight(wrong!), into a lot of frames and they needed a press to get 'em in.

That's what I thought until it happened on a 2nd frame I had built for me (one carbon, the other Ti, and the cups are pressed in tight, but they still travel under torque from riding). I'll have the Parlee cups in about a month (fingers crossed that they will solve the problem)

BTW, what was the problem with threaded BB shells that the PF fixed? ;)

[mcteague]

That's what I thought until it happened on a 2nd frame I had built (the cups are pressed in tight, but they still travel under torque from riding). I'll have the Parlee cups in about a month (fingers crossed that they will solve the problem)

BTW, what was the problem with threaded BB shells that the PF fixed? ;)

Cheaper to make is my guess. Then, the PR guys go to work to convince people there are performance benefits.

Tim

[Lionel]

The logic I heard from Nick was that when you are joining big tubes like oversize carbon tubes, a bigger BB makes it a logical choice compared to a small shell. Here is the surgery on my bike, carbon shim permanently glued in and Ti threaded BSC. Done.

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u459/Lionel_B/Crumpton/BSABB.jpg

[mcteague]

The logic I heard from Nick was that when you are joining big tubes like oversize carbon tubes, a bigger BB makes it a logical choice compared to a small shell. Here is the surgery on my bike, carbon shim permanently glued in and Ti threaded BSC. Done.



Yes, but this costs more money. I'm sure it is a great solution to both issues. I still think it is cheaper as there is no machining involved in the new style. And, that is the real driver behind the "innovation".

Tim

[Lionel]

Yes, but this costs more money. I'm sure it is a great solution to both issues. I still think it is cheaper as there is no machining involved in the new style. And, that is the real driver behind the "innovation".

Tim

I agree actually

[Tony T]

The logic I heard from Nick was that when you are joining big tubes like oversize carbon tubes, a bigger BB makes it a logical choice compared to a small shell

Agreed on the larger BB, but why PF? Problems of PF pulling out aside, are there advantages to PF over threaded.

(BTW, nice job by Nick on the threaded insert)

[Lionel]

Agreed on the larger BB, but why PF? Problems of PF pulling out aside, are there advantages to PF over threaded.

(BTW, nice job by Nick on the threaded insert)

The theoretical advantage is to enable a larger diameter crank shaft I guess and is suppose to be lighter by a little bit. But pressing cups into the BB does not make any mechanical sense if you ask me and it is asking for trouble in the long run. At the minimum these things tend to creak.

[thirdgenbird]

That is a nice threaded conversion.

[nicrump]

Then I suspect it's a problem with the frame shell. I have installed a lot of these cups, BB30, PF BB30, BBRight(wrong!), into a lot of frames and they needed a press to get 'em in.

nope. the shell was spot on perfect. its a problem of too little insertion and hardness of the campy cup. there are lots of on spec PF and BB30 frames with campy OS cups backing out of them.

[Grant McLean]

its a problem of too little insertion and hardness of the campy cup. there are lots of on spec PF and BB30 frames with campy OS cups backing out of them.

It's obvious the Parlee cups have significantly more material than the campag cups.
You'd think that after 100 years of press-in headsets this shouldn't be a problem!
One could guess that campag is going to have to revise their cups at some point.

-g

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8071/8270247824_405603b106_z.jpg

[tuscanyswe]

It's obvious the Parlee cups have significantly more material than the campag cups.
You'd think that after 100 years of press-in headsets this shouldn't be a problem!
One could guess that campag is going to have to revise their cups at some point.

-g

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8071/8270247824_405603b106_z.jpg

Can one buy the parlee cups for campy today? Only saw shimano listed on the parlee site.

[Tony T]

Ask them. They have a "Contact" page on their website.

[Lionel]

Yeah, the campy cups have something like 3 or 4mm of actual contact area. This is ridiculous. But I am not 100% convinced that the Parlee stuff will work either.

With the headset the forces at play are different, here the natural tendency would but for any cups to come out if they are not threaded to each other or something else.

[Grant McLean]

Can one buy the parlee cups for campy today? Only saw shimano listed on the parlee site.

should be available now:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151192341102746.445082.324712612745&type=3

[tuscanyswe]

should be available now:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151192341102746.445082.324712612745&type=3

Thank you!

So theres different adapters for pf30 and bb30 then?
Is there also different adapters for UT and PT cranks for either bb30 and pf30?

So many standards today..

[Tony T]

should be available now.

...but they're not (http://www.parleecycles.com/store/) at this time. Later.

(edit: They're now available on-line)

.

[nicrump]

I just hope the "P" brand cups have the correct OD. I tried 6 or 7 of their PF30 to 24mm shimano type and they all were undersized at 47.7mm to 47.9mm on the OD. Should be 46.0 +.2/-.0mm

Now given the need for .004" tolerance, who is saying the PF is all bout low tolerance and cheap manufacturing? People who don't design or manufacture for quality.

This is far tighter than any BSA tolerance I have worked with.

It's obvious the Parlee cups have significantly more material than the campag cups.
You'd think that after 100 years of press-in headsets this shouldn't be a problem!
One could guess that campag is going to have to revise their cups at some point.

-g

[oldpotatoe]

The logic I heard from Nick was that when you are joining big tubes like oversize carbon tubes, a bigger BB makes it a logical choice compared to a small shell. Here is the surgery on my bike, carbon shim permanently glued in and Ti threaded BSC. Done.

http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u459/Lionel_B/Crumpton/BSABB.jpg

A threaded BB shell..Brilliant!!!

I hope it catches on. Know it won't.

[Tony T]

Interesting video
Campagnolo Ultra Torque Discussion (RogueMechanic) (http://youtu.be/e3rJv5_rOQQ)

[Tony T]

I just hope the "P" brand cups have the correct OD. I tried 6 or 7 of their PF30 to 24mm shimano type and they all were undersized at 47.7mm to 47.9mm on the OD. Should be 46.0 +.2/-.0mm

Got them today.
Specs on the OD are correct.
Bad news is that they instruct to use Loctite 609 (Not a good sign, IMO. I'm installing without it).

[Lionel]

Good luck but keep us posted. IMO it won't work well.

[Tony T]

Yeah, I had high hopes until I saw the loctite 609 included with the BB cups (I'm installing w/o the 609).
Still, Parlee did a nice job on the cups. I really hope this works, if not I'll try the Sram adaptor next.
Getting cold again, so I won't have an opportunity to try the Parlee BB cups out for a few weeks.

[Tony T]

Installed the Parlee PF 30 cups for Campy. These cups are excellent quality. Nice tight fit in my Ti frame (actually took effort to press in. The Campy's went in with little effort).

Took a 20 mile test ride. No creaking, BB is silent. No movement in the cups after 20 miles (the campy's pulled out after 8 miles).

I won't declare victory until I get at least 500 miles on them, but based on initial impressions, the Parlee Campy PF 30 adaptors (http://www.parleecycles.com/store/) appear to be the solution to my problem.

[Lionel]

Good to hear. Keep us posted after more miles.

[Tony T]

Good to hear. Keep us posted after more miles.

I'll only post here if they don't work. (btw, I installed in my Ti frame without any loctite).

Anyway, if anyone else is having an issue with the Campy PF 30 cups pulling out of the bottom bracket shell, the Parlee Cups are the best solution that I've found.

[Ryun]

Any updates on your creaking?
Looking to solve my creaking PF30 issues with this and before I dropped the coin, I wanted to check on your progress

Ryun

[Tony T]

too cold to ride.

[zap]

too cold to ride.

Ahh, but this is the best time to see if it creaks.

Testing is tough work :banana:

[ultraman6970]

Probably the reason is weight. Good thing there are other manufacturers that were smart enough to built a interface that work with campagnolo, that parlee part from look at it you know it will work.

I was looking at a bb30 frame a couple of days ago, then started thinking in the darn cups... looks like parlee is the way to go.

Yeah, the campy cups have something like 3 or 4mm of actual contact area. This is ridiculous. But I am not 100% convinced that the Parlee stuff will work either.

With the headset the forces at play are different, here the natural tendency would but for any cups to come out if they are not threaded to each other or something else.

[Tony T]

Ahh, but this is the best time to see if it creaks.

My problem was the Campy cups pulling out (only then did it creak).

[Tony T]

Parlee cups are out of stock already.

[kgbianchi]

Just got my parolee cups, first ride good! We will see over time. Since this is on my cx bike that I am riding this winter from h*ll in MN, it serves as a fine test.

[Tony T]

New for 2014 (http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/07/18/2014-campagnolo-details-emerge-internal-eps-battery-bb30-cranksets-more/#more-63291). Looks like Campy's doing away with the need for the PF30 cups:

For the cranks, the new Comp Ultra and Comp One will use their new “Over-Torque” 30mm spindle to fit BB30 and PressFit30 frames without adapters.

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2014-Campagnolo-Comp-Ultra-30mm-Spindle-Crankset2-600x375.jpg
Both cranksets use a hollow 30mm aluminum spindle. They’re compatible with BB30, PFBB30 and BB386EVO bottom brackets and will use special tools to tighten the non-driveside crankarm onto the spindle. Both come with 11-speed chainrings.

[oldpotatoe]

Weird. Why not just make cups that press into a PF30 shell? With that system, you need two adapters; one that presses into the PF30 shell (simulating a BB30) and then one that adapts your now BB30 shell back to PF30 to fit the Campy cranks. The Campy PF30 cups press directly into the PF30 shell, and then you're done.

You end up with a double bearing on each side..more bearings, not a bad thing unless the original PFBB30 bearing is junk, as many of them are.

[cfox]

New for 2014 (http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/07/18/2014-campagnolo-details-emerge-internal-eps-battery-bb30-cranksets-more/#more-63291). Looks like Campy's doing away with the need for the PF30 cups:

For the cranks, the new Comp Ultra and Comp One will use their new “Over-Torque” 30mm spindle to fit BB30 and PressFit30 frames without adapters.

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2014-Campagnolo-Comp-Ultra-30mm-Spindle-Crankset2-600x375.jpg
Both cranksets use a hollow 30mm aluminum spindle. They’re compatible with BB30, PFBB30 and BB386EVO bottom brackets and will use special tools to tighten the non-driveside crankarm onto the spindle. Both come with 11-speed chainrings.

You will still need cups pressed into the frame for a PF30 BB, all they've done is make a crank with a bigger axle. If the cups still have those narrow shoulders, you might see the cups pulling out again. Also, the Campy system doesn't use 'adapters' per se, they just use cups to fit their bearings.

[oldpotatoe]

Probably the reason is weight. Good thing there are other manufacturers that were smart enough to built a interface that work with campagnolo, that parlee part from look at it you know it will work.

I was looking at a bb30 frame a couple of days ago, then started thinking in the darn cups... looks like parlee is the way to go.

I have an idea..take a BB shell, make it out of metal and thread the two sides..so a manufactured cup can just be threaded in...whatdoyathink?

[R2D2]

I have an idea..take a BB shell, make it out of metal and thread the two sides..so a manufactured cup can just be threaded in...whatdoyathink?

I think you are a genius.

And you could make one side adjustable with a lock ring to accommodate any BB width.

[ultraman6970]

Been wondering the same thing since the standard came a few years back. From the manufacturing standing point of view saves a lot of time, money and will provide lighter frames numbers in the catalogs; but from the user side after you put all those cups and adapters you get the same weight (or close) to the simpler english threaded BB frame, what more simple than a threaded BB?



I have an idea..take a BB shell, make it out of metal and thread the two sides..so a manufactured cup can just be threaded in...whatdoyathink?

[Tony T]

You will still need cups pressed into the frame for a PF30 BB, all they've done is make a crank with a bigger axle. If the cups still have those narrow shoulders, you might see the cups pulling out again. Also, the Campy system doesn't use 'adapters' per se, they just use cups to fit their bearings.

I interpert "30mm spindle to fit BB30 and PressFit30 frames without adapters." to mean that Campy did away with the "cups". Also says that "It comes with the BB"
Looks that way from the illustration, but we'll know for sure when they're released.
(...and, of course "will use special tools to tighten the non-driveside crankarm onto the spindle.")

[beeatnik]

I interpert "30mm spindle to fit BB30 and PressFit30 frames without adapters." to mean that Campy did away with the "cups". Also says that "It comes with the BB"
Looks that way from the illustration, but we'll know for sure when they're released.
(...and, of course "will use special tools to tighten the non-driveside crankarm onto the spindle.")

The question is will the bearings be inside the frame or in cups. I think Campy just took the bearings out of the crank arm and is going with a GXP type BB. Then, they increased the diameter of the spindle. Voila, now you can claim you offer a BB30, PF30, BB386 crank. Not much different than Rotor's 3D+

The Fairwheel description is pretty ambiguous:

Compatibility is for oversize bb’s, specifically BB386, BB30 and PF30. The Comp One comes with a standard Campag steel bearing, but the Ultra comes with a special USB bearing in place of the SR’s Cult bearing. Q-factor remains at 145.5mm.

[Tony T]

The question is will the bearings be inside the frame or in cups.

Doesn't the illustration shows the bearings inside the frame?

[corky]

Isn't the important thing that the Over Torque cranks have done away with the Wavy washer ad therefore side to side play?

[oldpotatoe]

Isn't the important thing that the Over Torque cranks have done away with the Wavy washer ad therefore side to side play?

If ya push as hard as you can, you can get a little, wee bit of side to side play, along with any BB crank that uses a 'wavy' washer but in actual practice, when pedaling, none of the cranks I have installed has the rider come back and complain about 'that dern side to side play'.

[Tony T]

.
Campagnolo presents Over-Torque™ Crankset technology (http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/newsdetail/newsid_428_newscatid_3.jsp)

http://www.campagnolo.com/repository/news/img1/campagnolo-overtorque-top2.jpg