Why do people build a custom dream bike then sell it after a year

[buddybikes]

I see a number of people on the forum that have a custom frame from top builder, keep it for a year or two then sell it off (at large financial loss) wondering why? Didn't fit?

I am working on my first full custom in 19 years (a firefly) and I will envy myself for having been able to get this piece of artistic and engineering work for many many years.

[IJWS]

Different Strokes for Different Folks. Making stuff is fun for some people, having stuff is fun for others. Congrats on the Firefly--those are so nice!

[cmg]

alot of the time it's the aquisition that's the fun or a major component of the fun. I've built/ordered 3 customs so far, kept the latest ti frame. Sold the other 2 mainly cause i didn't think the fit was that good. yep, lost money but i got my time out of them. i enjoy building/cobbling bikes together. the tinkering is fun, relatively cheaper and easier than a car or motorcycle. considering having another steel frame built, fighting the urge until next year.

[waypastfast]

Because who doesn't like a new bike every season? Its the bike geek in all of us! :banana:

[eBAUMANN]

the process is certainly half the fun, and personally, i kinda like the way people pass along their super nice custom projects...makes going "custom" a lot more attainable for those couldn't otherwise afford the price of admission.

[AngryScientist]

moving this to GD...

i've wondered the same thing. not something i would do, but i suppose if you have the financial resources, and you like to try new things, why not. it's almost like buying a new car every few years. doesnt work for everyone, but nothing wrong with it either.

[rice rocket]

alot of the time it's the aquisition that's the fun or a major component of the fun. I've built/ordered 3 customs so far, kept the latest ti frame. Sold the other 2 mainly cause i didn't think the fit was that good. yep, lost money but i got my time out of them. i enjoy building/cobbling bikes together. the tinkering is fun, relatively cheaper and easier than a car or motorcycle. considering having another steel frame built, fighting the urge until next year.

Imagine me then, I'm a bike nut, car nut, and motorcycle nut, I tinker on all of them.

I think having children might put a damper on things...

[echelon_john]

Because it's the NEXT one that will make you faster and more attractive to prospective partners. Not THIS one. I mean, jeez, just look at it.

[fuzzalow]

Do people really do that? I do know some folks like to flip bikes - vive la difference.

Keep in mind most custom bikes are not all that radical as far as geometry for a rider and most riders don't need or can even use a real radical geometry as a prerequisite to making a bike fit.

Fit is also an evolving thing for many riders, based on where the rider is along the curve of honing/zeroing-in on his own fit. So what worked then doesn't work now and the dated custom bike geometry is now unsuitable. It happens.

To get the best result from a custom bike you need to know enough about your own fit numbers and yourself in order to make a successful go at it. I'd guess very few custom bikes/frames get fitted in person. Great if that happens but also IMO unfair to the builder to drop on him the responsibility of making a custom bike fit if the client is unsure himself of what is needed. The builder can't know you more than you know yourself and it is unrealistic to expect a builder to fix a bad fit or change how you sit on a bike or change the stroke technique by how you power it. But to be fair, I also think some builders, and certainly some bike shops doing the fit as part of the sale, lead a client on with unspoken promises of a custom geo possibly fixing these ills. Nothing unscrupulous or dishonest, more like sins of omission. But not the most valued-added either. It's a thin line.

And a client that is looking for panacea will fill in the blanks of what was unsaid with his own hopes for what might be. Don't be that client. And if you were, then it was all part of the learning curve and hopefully some time was gotten on the bike before you moved on. Trust yourself. I've made mistakes from my own choosing but I learned because they were my mistakes and not the result of some absurd advice from a guy trying to sell me a bike.

[eddief]

in the 1%. Ask Dave Thompson.

[MattTuck]

If you have the loot, why not?

I can tell you that if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be making calls in 5 or 6 different builders.

lots of people get a new car every couple of years.

[bargainguy]

Why do people lease instead of buy cars? Because they like having new wheels every 2 or 3 years and not having to worry about long-term maintenance. Leasing a car starts to make much less sense after 3 yr., though - better off to buy and keep, or sell and renew the cycle.

Maybe it's the same way with custom bikes. If you can afford it, and especially if you're not an outlier as far as sizing, you can always get something back at sale time. Your friends will be in constant amazement as you pull yet another custom beauty out of your stable.

[Len J]

For some....The hunt is better than the kill.

Len

[67-59]

I think the answer is "because they can."

[Ken Robb]

I think some folks expect too much "magic" from a custom frame. There is only so much "vertical compliance and lateral stiffness" possible. :)

[MattTuck]

I think some folks expect too much "magic" from a custom frame. There is only so much "vertical compliance and lateral stiffness" possible. :)

Yep, even the best custom doesn't turn you into Tom Boonen.

[Len J]

I think some folks expect too much "magic" from a custom frame. There is only so much "vertical compliance and lateral stiffness" possible. :)

There is also the....damn that custom paint I put so much time in is ugly! & "the grass is always greener." & the "well I thought I would like that characteristic and I found I don't."

It's all good. Puts some nice used high end bikes within people's reach.

Len

[christian]

Some people are fickle.
Some people are refining what they want.
Some people enjoy the process.

And some very, very special people are about the same size as their friends, and just want to share the joy. Let us honor them, not question their motives!

[mtechnica]

If you have the loot, why not?



yup

[dd74]

I know a guy who flips his customs. Funny thing is, I've never thought he rode his bikes enough, and for that reason, gets bored just looking at what he has. I'm sure he working in a bike shop doesn't help matters.

[boconnor811]

I'm guilty of the grass always being greener on the other side. Until recently with off the shelf bikes, but sure glad you guys buy sell these nice custom frames at the pace you do in hopes that lightning may strike for something in my size within my budget becoming available:)

[slidey]

I'll check back with you on a couple of years, and you can tell me then if that's still how you feel? ;)

Point is this - your expectations from a product that you haven't yet received is already sky-high, the only way to go from here is down. A couple of years down the line, you might feel that you're getting as much out of this new toy, as you were with your much cheaper plastic bike, and you've had your fill from the custom plate and its time to pass it on to someone else. I feel that for most of us it takes a custom bike to realise that its not about the bike!

I can't say any of the above with certainty, but I don't see any certainty anywhere in the custom business-model either, so there you go.

Caveat: The above is not a discouragement from custom bikes, but just an attempt at pinning down the thought process of people who go custom, and flip.

I am working on my first full custom in 19 years (a firefly) and I will envy myself for having been able to get this piece of artistic and engineering work for many many years.

[alancw3]

many years ago i read something to the effect that "the realization can never live up to the anticipation". i have found this true in life. whether we are talking bikes, cars, houses and for that matter just about anything. if we fantisize to much before hand the realization will never meet our expectations.

[Joachim]

All my bikes fit well, but my custom Spectrum Ti rides better than all of them (incl a stock Serotta Ottrott). I can't see myself selling the Spectrum, but will sell the others.

[mtechnica]

It's called the 'hedonic treadmill' ;)

[dustyrider]

I don't know "why" they do it, but it sure gives me great joy to know that one day a precisely built bike might end up between my legs...without me having to forego eating to do so!
Of course my career choice doesn't help the budget woes....(publicskoolteacher)!
However, in my "rich" dreams I still drive and ride the off the shelf stuff, it just has a nicer kit, and the extra money takes me places I've never been!

[bluesea]

And then again sometimes it might take 2-3 times to get the geometry and custom features right.

[eddief]

lower bb and significantly taller headtube. interestingly enough, i got those two things in two customs, and now have duplicated headtube with a big Roubaix. So the Roubaix fits really damn close to the custom fit. Still own both customs and the newer Roubaix. need a custom ti now.

[shovelhd]

It's called keeping the economy moving. Why do you hate America?

[scrubadub]

Imagine me then, I'm a bike nut, car nut, and motorcycle nut, I tinker on all of them.

I think having children might put a damper on things...

Yes, although "working on my bikes" is my new signal to my wife that I need a break from the kids.

OTOH, my daughter loves pumping up tires. The problem is she likes letting the air out even more.

[Jeff N.]

The BB King song, "The Thrill Is Gone" comes to mind. Jeff N.

[mister]

a few reasons
if the communication isn't there then the end product might not be as awesome as anticipated, it usually takes alot of miles to realize how the frame is gonna work

fit is constantly changing

what someone needs in a bike might change

i guess i got lucky because the custom i got still feels awesome to me. i've had it 4 years and it took a few months to get everything dialed in. i didn't really expect it to be extremely nice...and it ended up being extremely nice.

[11.4]

Buying a custom frame falls into as many behaviors as you can come up with.

Sure, there are people who just like to acquire frames and have the financial wherewithal to do so. It may not even be about becoming a better rider ... just a love of frames.

And let's add up all the custom frames delivered each year and you'll notice that only a very small fraction get sold again.

But there are many legitimate reasons for selling off a custom frame. Many people go to a custom frame to get custom geometry. But custom geometry often doesn't work well ... you gain something, you lose something, and there's a reason why frames are built within a narrow range of geometries. So you got the frame geometry you wanted (and it can be peculiar, such as no toe overlap or whatever, which simply compromises other features) but find you don't like the result.

Other people go for custom geometry because they have issues related to flexibility, fitness, or age-related degeneration. If they start riding a bit, they will improve and likely want a different geometry. Notice how many of the custom frames that come up for sale have weird geometries?

Honestly, I think the hardest thing for a builder has to be when the customer wants a weird bike. He probably knows that will be a bike that will likely come out on the market again.

I do know that sometimes you buy a bike and don't use it. I bought my share of custom bikes and sold most of them. There was always one I took first, and I was also frequently on team-sponsored frames so the custom frame I'd bought doesn't get used. But my frames were always in a relatively narrow geometry range -- I tend to use a long stem and slam it, I already have a relatively long top tube and short seat tube (basic body geometry defines that), but otherwise I try to let the builder call the rest. I ride a small frame so I know I'm looking at toe overlap and a steeper seat angle -- it's hard to get away from those in a small frame without compromising other aspects of the frame. No frame is perfect, but I've learned what a custom builder can give me without undermining other performance features of a bike. I have a ti frame with fender eyelets and a little extra clearance for winter training and a carbon frame built stiffer and stronger for summer use. A titanium fixie with fender eyelets and clearances again for winter fixie use. And of course too many track bikes. But that's become a pretty solid stable. I've had an eye on a couple new frames, but at most I'm just trying to stretch my position a little more and drop it, so an extra centimeter on the top tube and a centimeter less on the head tube. If it works, I keep it and lose one of the others. If it doesn't, it comes up for sale again. It's an experiment, which all training and racing always is. We change continuously, both physiologically and in our mental approach to riding, so we do reasonably have reason to change. And change is an experiment.

[mister]

also, if you learn how the geometry of the frames work, you can confidently buy frames knowing how they will fit

last frame i bought had a shorter top tube than my main bike but i knew the reach was actually going to end up a little longer

[dave thompson]

in the 1%. Ask Dave Thompson.

Thanks Eddie:p I'll have a couple on the market shortly.

[carpediemracing]

I'm not flipping my frames but I did learn from the first two customs I got.

First custom ever, trying to fit my odd size proportions. Sloping top tube style because I like the top tube down low when I'm out of the saddle. 40 cm seat tube (c-c), 56.5 cm top tube, 75.5 deg seat tube. Everything else was kind of regular (9.5 cm head tube, 40.5 cm chain stay, whatever BB drop).

I found that the bike fit me well but the weight distribution was off. I ordered a second frame with a 39 cm chainstay, otherwise the same end points. I wanted to get an "aero" frame so did some changes for that.

The second frame worked so well I wanted to change the first frame. Not having the loot to just arbitrarily get another frame I decided to mod the first frame. I had the builder shorten that chainstay from 40.5 to 39 cm, which happened to involve new seat stays and brake bridge. I had a friend paint it and now I need to build it.

If I could get another frame I'd want bits and pieces from each and maybe some new things. I figure I could hone my option picks to the point where in two more framesets I'd be pretty happy. My big experiment for the next frame would be either a shorter (in some way) head tube and or a higher bottom bracket, to increase saddle->bar drop.

The fourth frame would involve a compromise between all of the above. Realistically I'd keep the shorter stay, the 56.5 top tube (maybe go 57.5 for compact bars), the front end is fine (73 deg HT, 43 mm rake).

And really I got my first frame as a 'rough draft' thinking that I could get a super duper carbon custom once I have my design down. I realized after getting the two frames that the carbon would make less of a difference than honing the fit and handling.

That's been my experience so far.

[cnighbor1]

Why do people build a custom dream bike then sell it after a year
the same happens in autos
saw an add for BWM 3 series convertible 2011
why would anyone want to sell a new convertible here in CA Bay area with so much sun
then 5% of Americans owns 90% of it weath So a $5000 bike frame no big deal
Than in Bay area a lot of people making over $250,000 a year and single
so no big deal
Person who bougth my new paint peter Mooney frame had two kids a wife and was retired at 35

[jlwdm]

I have two custom frames and they have been perfect. In 5 1/2 years I have never thought once about getting rid of my Serotta. My Spectrum has only 50 miles in 3 1/2 years - it is in Seattle and I am not. But it felt great for the 50 miles.

I need custom geometry and my process included getting fit by fitters I totally trusted. Paraic for the Serotta and Tom Kellogg for the Spectrum - in person. I would not get a custom without working with a top fitter. Don't try to save money for a fit. And I do not believe in long distance fitting.

Jeff

[rjfr]

When you commission a custom bike, I think you have an idea in mind of the end result.

Unless you have ridden many bikes and can definitively identify the geometry and tube set which meets your needs, it is a process of compromise. You identify what you think you need and the builder interprets this into a tube set and geometry which they believe fits the requirements. You review the specification and say yay or nay. At his point, unless you have lots and lots of experience, it's a crap shoot. You trust the builder understands your needs or you move on, at loss, as you have already deposited a fair sum at this point.

When you receive the frame, and build it up with your chosen components set, ride it for some miles in the chosen territory, which the builder may or may not understand, you find it fits your ideal, or maybe not so much.

The problem is that the beautiful custom frame you've acquired after a year or more of discussion does not fit with your ideas/ideals. So what do you do. Smile and keep it, hoping it gets better?

Most likely you just write it off as a lost venture and move on. Hope you can recoup a bit of the loss and learn from the process.

It just depends on the depth of funds and your perseverance to an ideal.

If you've decided a custom frame is the only solution, the stakes are automatically higher than any reality you know. Like all excursions into the unknown, the results are not always what you imagine.

There are many, many frame builders. Most are good at what they do. Not all are omniscient. If you are lucky, the builder understands what you really want, in spite of what you ask for.

Just my two cents.

[cmg]

1st custom was a modification of the Bianchi and Colnago frames i was riding. was too stretched out, had the saddle slammed back. solved the saddle slammed issue but still too stretched out. 2nd custom reduced the top tube lenght and had a taller headtube. very stiff, very responsive also kind of heavy. after 3 seasons decided to sell and build a custom Ti, by this time i had owned a couple of serottas and noticed the bb drop of 8cm so added that to the custom geometry mix. Still kind of stretched out but going between a 10-9cm stems is workable on what would be a 50cm+/- frame. in the process of swapping out components and getting a light set of wheels. as always buy-sell-swap-cobble to keep costs low. or that's what i tell myself. fun hobby.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

many years ago i read something to the effect that "the realization can never live up to the anticipation". i have found this true in life. whether we are talking women, bikes, cars, houses and for that matter just about anything. if we fantisize to much before hand the realization will never meet our expectations.

'Zactly, and I'm poaching that quote for my signature, IYDM.

[buddybikes]

I collect, although slowly, antique clocks. Could flip them to change the look/sound, but guess my personality is slow and deliberate like an old clock, couldn't bear to flip any of them. Have 2 beautiful tandems that the kids have outgrown, but they are still hanging around. Perhaps I will post one here, fillet brazed Belinky with beautiful sunset (yellow to red) paint job.

Fortunately, I know my sizing and needs well so not concerned about this new machine not fitting.

[Gummee]

I don't have any customs, but I can say from my POV that its the hunt, the acquisition of the frame, parts, etc if you will that is the fun part for me. Once I have what I've been hunting for, its time to hunt for the next one. That process may start immediately, or it may be a while, but it *does* start over.

I may settle for wheelsets between frames 'cause I'm a wheel whore, but when things appear in the garage they rarely leave.

M

[bironi]

Shouldn't Jack Brunk's face and bikes appear at the top of this thread? I'd take his word as the last on the subject. He moves on quickly and is happy every time. I wish he was my size, but I'm a little guy especially by Serotta audience standards.

[rounder]

My body type is pretty normal, so did not need custom.

I went to K. Bedford because he was starting his own company. I already liked Serotta. I just wanted to effin do it to see what it was like. Design a frame. See how it would fit...had no idea how that would work out. Order parts when the possibilities were endless. In the end, see how it all worked out.

It worked for me. Kelly did what kelly does. I did not give him any requests, other than to make it nice. The lugs were shaped and scalloped. The bile fit and rolls great. Looks beautiful.

Going to hold on to it. Not one of those who buy this year, and sell next year types.

[Rueda Tropical]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.

[beeatnik]

shouldn't jack brunk's face and bikes appear at the top of this thread? I'd take his word as the last on the subject. He moves on quickly and is happy every time. I wish he was my size, but i'm a little guy especially by serotta audience standards.

+1

[Ray]

I had the opposite experience. I learned a lot through 6-7 years of trying and buying different stock frames, some of them really nice. When I finally got my first custom after about 7-8 years of riding a lot, I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted, found a good fitter/designer/builder and had it done. It exceeded every expectation I had and created and met new ones I'd never thought of. A couple years later I had another one built with similar characteristics but a bit more laid back and with more clearance for fatter tires and fenders. I got these two frames about 8 and 6 years ago and haven't bought another road frame, or even seriously thought about it, since. Getting to a custom was a long process for me, and the customs I got have finished the process, at least so far. I'll never say never, but given that I'm riding a lot less in the past few years, I suspect I'm set for as long as I keep riding. And even though I'm in lesser condition than I was when I was riding a ton, I still appreciate the feel of a great frame and these two stil fit me like a glove.

-Ray

[Chance]

I see a number of people on the forum that have a custom frame from top builder, keep it for a year or two then sell it off (at large financial loss) wondering why? Didn't fit?


Personally doubt lack of fit has much to do with it. Agree with others that most customs aren't sold after a year or two. Mine are all getting old now. But for those who sell them my guess is that the project was a failure. In the sense that it failed to deliver what the owner expected or needed. And probably because they expected too much or didn't really know what they needed in the first place.

A lot of people think they can do better than pros and they can't. And this happens outside of cycling too. How many people try to design their own house and end up with an ugly box? We all think we can design things ourselves but the truth is that many of us just can't. Or shouldn't even try.

My guess is that those who let the builder take a larger role are more successful. Those who think they know best probably not so much.

[christian]

I think this thread takes way too negative and moralistic a tone.

First off, they're bikes! You don't have to marry them. Maybe interests change, riding styles change, etc.

Eight years ago, my primary road bike a Rivendell Rambouillet and today it's a Colnago Extreme Power. In between, I had a stock Pegoretti and a Merckx. Is that ok, but it'd otherwise if they had been a custom Rivendell, a custom Peg, a Sachs, and a Crumpton, respectively? The only difference is dollars, really.

My wife just sold a Vanilla to buy a stock Parlee, because at the end of the day she really wants a lightweight race bike.

And even if riding styles don't change, people can be fickle. Perhaps a new color fetches the eye, maybe tapered head tubes seem neat to try.

[fuzzalow]

I am in the same camp as Ray and other posters here who do not flip custom bikes. Not that there's anything wrong with it.

I have always maintained that it is better to pursue and complete a custom bike when a client/buyer is experienced and knowledgeable enough to know what choices to make and where to back off and let a builder do what he is chosen & paid to do. Because after all is said and done, there has to be an excellent bike as a result. Not just a gratifying experience from having endevoured with a builder and getting a so-so bike. So-so bike because the client is meddling in too many details because it is custom and the client thinks he can design a bike. So-so bike because the client hopes that custom geometry will cure fitment problems when the actual cause is from something as fundamental as not knowing how to sit on a bike.

A custom bike can't backfill a knowledge gap.

I think flipping a custom bike in only a year is an exaggeration, but if truly the case, then what a waste. Even a builder, who is happy for the work, doesn't want to see his product not be the best bike possible for his client. Some clients might believe this is a high-end experience in the sport of cycling. It's not. The real sport at work here is the sport of shopping.

[djg]

All of the above?

Some folks like the process, or like to try different things, and their budget constraints allow them to do it; and maybe some bikes stay longer and some shorter; and maybe various reasons/inklings/druthers dictate the turnover. They ride the bike for a while and then somebody else does.

Some folks expect magic and don't find it. I hear that the Harry Potter books have their fans.

Some folks run into unfortunate circumstances and think that they need the cash, despite the huge hit on depreciation. Some folks run into other changes in circumstances . . . a move, a new job, such that they feel the need to alter their riding/trim the "stable" or what have you. I mean, I have friends (albeit without custom bikes) who moved from Eugene, Oregon to Manhattan, when one of them got a teaching job at NYU. The job came with a discounted 3-bedroom apartment which, in Manhattan, is pretty great, but that's the sort of move that makes some folks prioritize their bikes and riding in a way that a large garage, attached to a large house with a basement, might not.

Some folks get bikes/frames built to accommodate some limitation that becomes less limiting; some folks get hurt and find they need something different from what they've been riding for 25 years, which seemed just fine when they ordered the bike.

Some folks dictate too much to builders who try to accommodate them, and then they don't like something about the result. I have to confess that when I went to Tom K I was very specific: I didn't just say "blue," I showed him the team jersey. He seemed pleased with the instruction and it worked out great. But, you know, I didn't tell him how to apply the blue paint, and I didn't hand him a build sheet -- the design thing was his job, not mine, as was the painting.

But folks have all kinds of reasons.

[charliedid]

Who cares?

I mean that respectfully, as in what other people do with their $ or bikes is not something I lose sleep over.

They're just bikes.

You should go hang out in a couple photography forums...

[victoryfactory]

The answer is in the title.
What people should be ordering is a custom Reality Bike

VF

[Charles M]

Objection...

Leading.


The original question is overly general and suggestive.

[Dave B]

I have gone through a tremendous amount of bikes in my life. Most of it was due to a situation I was in that I tried to change my life thinking a perfect bike would be the answer. It wasn't and I have changed that and I do not go through as many. Additionally, I like trying new things and when it comes to certain niches with in the industry it is hard to "try" with out buying.

Some people make personal connections with their bikes and some think they are simply a tool for a purpose or some other reason. No need to be more then that. Those that hang onto a bike for 50 years is great, just like the guy who has it for 50 minutes and knows it isn't right. People are different.



I do not know why people give Jack B such a hard time. He doesn't need me to speak for him, but Jack rides the crap out of his bikes. He puts more miles on his bikes in a month then some put on in a year. He likes nice things, has the money to buy nice things, and he likes to try stuff. I wish I had all of his cycling abilities as well as his ability to afford stuff. I have purchased a bike and a frame from him and loved each of them. One of them was the best mtb I have ever ridden abnd I wish I had that one back. Thank god he gives awesome deals to those of us who are able to fit his stuff.

[buddybikes]

RE: The original question is overly general and suggestive.

Sorry, more curious that is all. Just often see these beautiful almost new machines with 500 miles on them for sale. But I have learned a lesson in this thread:
1. Be careful of asking open ended questions
2. More importantly - if possible know/trust your builder, go local and as they say measure twice/cut once...
3. Enjoy the sport! Feel sorry for those who can't appreciate a soft wind through your hair while chatting with friends or mates...or the occasional spring to the town line. In many cases while riding on a useful piece of art.

[christian]

Feel sorry for those who can't appreciate a soft wind through your hair while chatting with friends or matesYou taking the piss out of helmet wearers or baldies? ;)

[buddybikes]

I was actually thinking of others that don't ride, but are physically able to...

[jmeloy]

I have gone through a tremendous amount of bikes in my life. Most of it was due to a situation I was in that I tried to change my life thinking a perfect bike would be the answer. It wasn't and I have changed that and I do not go through as many. Additionally, I like trying new things and when it comes to certain niches with in the industry it is hard to "try" with out buying.

Some people make personal connections with their bikes and some think they are simply a tool for a purpose or some other reason. No need to be more then that. Those that hang onto a bike for 50 years is great, just like the guy who has it for 50 minutes and knows it isn't right. People are different.



I do not know why people give Jack B such a hard time. He doesn't need me to speak for him, but Jack rides the crap out of his bikes. He puts more miles on his bikes in a month then some put on in a year. He likes nice things, has the money to buy nice things, and he likes to try stuff. I wish I had all of his cycling abilities as well as his ability to afford stuff. I have purchased a bike and a frame from him and loved each of them. One of them was the best mtb I have ever ridden abnd I wish I had that one back. Thank god he gives awesome deals to those of us who are able to fit his stuff.

And on top of that, Jack's as fine a person as exists on the forum. He had a bike I was interested in and I said "love to have it, but it'll take some time to get the funds together". He replied, "I'll send it to you, just pay me when you can". We'd never met or spoken before.

[djg]

And on top of that, Jack's as fine a person as exists on the forum. He had a bike I was interested in and I said "love to have it, but it'll take some time to get the funds together". He replied, "I'll send it to you, just pay me when you can". We'd never met or spoken before.

It's a nice testimonial, but honestly, I think that the negative feelings probably attach to a very small minority of folks on the board. No doubt I've rubbed a couple of people here the wrong way myself, but I hope it's not more than that. I don't have a single bad thought to think, much less write, about Jack, and I suspect that most of the people participating in this thread are in the same boat.

[T.J.]

mine only beef with Jack is I am jealous of the bikes he has owned. life is short and Jack is having fun. rock on Jack:banana:

[RkyMtn]

If one has the means, then you start collecting custom frames. Some will be better than others and you start selling the ones that are at the bottom half of your ratings scale... Either to make room for the next best and possible super-bike or to make the wife "happy".

I had a few custom bikes that I didn't like for one or more reasons. Most had to do with torsional flex issues.

There is also the curiosity factor of wanting to see how different bikes ride with your own parts selection. I find it difficult judge a frame and fork with different parts on it. Especially wheels and tires. And, a smaller bike than what I would ride would likely not reflect how a frame fit for me would behave.

If you money, then it is a great hobby!!! And all the forum sales allow others the opportunity to have a great bike for a reachable price.

Some of the volume on the forum are repeat sales of frames being passed around. I had a Kirk Terraplane for a season and I was the 4th owner on the forum.

[rounder]

I have gone through a tremendous amount of bikes in my life. Most of it was due to a situation I was in that I tried to change my life thinking a perfect bike would be the answer. It wasn't and I have changed that and I do not go through as many. Additionally, I like trying new things and when it comes to certain niches with in the industry it is hard to "try" with out buying.

Some people make personal connections with their bikes and some think they are simply a tool for a purpose or some other reason. No need to be more then that. Those that hang onto a bike for 50 years is great, just like the guy who has it for 50 minutes and knows it isn't right. People are different.



I do not know why people give Jack B such a hard time. He doesn't need me to speak for him, but Jack rides the crap out of his bikes. He puts more miles on his bikes in a month then some put on in a year. He likes nice things, has the money to buy nice things, and he likes to try stuff. I wish I had all of his cycling abilities as well as his ability to afford stuff. I have purchased a bike and a frame from him and loved each of them. One of them was the best mtb I have ever ridden abnd I wish I had that one back. Thank god he gives awesome deals to those of us who are able to fit his stuff.

Good post. Thanks. Glad for the bikes i have, and for the people who built them.

[Jack Brunk]

It's better to give than receive.

I dig each and every one of you.

Be well,

JB

[vav]

It's better to give than receive.
Mike Tyson :p

[spaced_ghost]

ask xjahx?

[Dave B]

It's better to give than receive.

I dig each and every one of you.

Be well,

JB

Bro you give a lot. I hope you get back some good as well!

[Jack Brunk]

Bro you give a lot. I hope you get back some good as well!

More than most my friend. Every day that you wake up breathing is good. I have 7 hours of single track planned this weekend. I hope I can finish it. It's between Firefly and Primus not sure the order though.

JB

[HugoBear]

I think it sometimes is due to a rider not knowing what they want, like or dislike. I am finally figuring that out. I rode the wrong bike on the wrong trail yesterday and learned something. Before that, I hadn't had too many a ha moments on a bike. No scandium bike ever again on the trail I rode yesterday.

[oldpotatoe]

I think some folks expect too much "magic" from a custom frame. There is only so much "vertical compliance and lateral stiffness" possible. :)

Agree. I have had 4 custom frames, and come back to the Merckx MXLeader..it really does it all. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I wouldn't get a new bike, I get the Merckx painted but it would be my ride for the future.

I'd buy an airplane. It would take a mega-huge-giaganto lottery but I'd look to get one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AyRKskkpbY

[rounder]

.

[54ny77]

for every hot [bike] there's a guy who's tired of [riding] with [it]....

;)

[RkyMtn]

Agree. I have had 4 custom frames, and come back to the Merckx MXLeader..it really does it all. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I wouldn't get a new bike, I get the Merckx painted but it would be my ride for the future.

I'd buy an airplane. It would take a mega-huge-giaganto lottery but I'd look to get one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AyRKskkpbY

Peter,

FIRST, you need to go buy a duplicate of the Merckx MXLeader as a back-up!

Cheers!

[oldpotatoe]

Peter,

FIRST, you need to go buy a duplicate of the Merckx MXLeader as a back-up!

Cheers!

I have one, on the wall, with a 50th anniversary group on it.

[professerr]

These are all such great, honest answers.

I have only one thing to add: if you are sitting on a bike that you haven't used for years, then just sell it. Don't sit on it for a decade (or two!) and then post it on ebay, pristine and unused.

I just sold an instrument (which actually can appreciate, or at least hold value) I hadn't played for years and it felt great to see it go to someone who would enjoy it immensely.

Things made to be used should be used.

[I Want Sachs?]

Dreams change. I know my dream is different every night.

[93legendti]

Jack's a great guy- he has helped me a few times. I think it's a low blow to take a shot at him. He's got great taste in bikes and he walks the walk.

[Climb01742]

Two things:

1. Jack is a great guy and tremendously generous.

2. Not every custom works out. Custom does not automatically equate to good or right or deliver what was requested. Anything made by humans can come up short.

[doomridesout]

I love the thrill of the flip... I think of the bikes I have as a direct lineage from the singlespeeded Bianchi Classica I bought six years ago to commute in college, which I sold to get something nicer, which I sold to get something nicer.... and so on and so forth. It's fun to scoop deals! Although I will say that if I'd spent all that time riding instead I'd probably be quite a bit stronger.

[Marz]

Agree. I have had 4 custom frames, and come back to the Merckx MXLeader..it really does it all. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I wouldn't get a new bike, I get the Merckx painted but it would be my ride for the future.

I'd buy an airplane. It would take a mega-huge-giaganto lottery but I'd look to get one of these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AyRKskkpbY

Wow, I'd love to read your experience of flying F4s in the navy. I suppose you did night traps then too. (I read somewhere that you used to fly jets.)

My favourite jet.

[Jeff N.]

Wow, I'd love to read your experience of flying F4s in the navy. I suppose you did night traps then too. (I read somewhere that you used to fly jets.)

My favourite jet.I used to load bombs on F-4's during the Vietnam mess. Ubon Air Base, Thailand, 70-71.

[Marz]

F4 was one of my first model kits. We have an F4E that Royal Australian Air Force leased (while waiting for our F-111 order in 60s-70s) on display at Point Cook RAAF base in Victoria (southern Australia).

It's awesome in the true sense of the word.

Jeff N, hope you're OK after your experience there.

Please excuse thread hijack.

[Jeff N.]

F4 was one of my first model kits. We have an F4E that Royal Australian Air Force leased (while waiting for our F-111 order in 60s-70s) on display at Point Cook RAAF base in Victoria (southern Australia).

It's awesome in the true sense of the word.

Jeff N, hope you're OK after your experience there.

Please excuse thread hijack.The "E" model had/has the 20mm Vulcan cannon in the nose. Badazzzzzz! We used to call the F-111 the "Switchblade Edsel".

[Marz]

"Switchblade Edsel"

Love that, but first time I've ever heard that expression and the F-111Cs and Gs were only retired a few years ago here.

Funny, but the F-111 was replaced by 24 F-18 Super Hornets which is probably as many as on one of your aircraft carriers. So our entire strike force is equivalent to one of your carrier's capability!

[oldpotatoe]

"Switchblade Edsel"

Love that, but first time I've ever heard that expression and the F-111Cs and Gs were only retired a few years ago here.

Funny, but the F-111 was replaced by 24 F-18 Super Hornets which is probably as many as on one of your aircraft carriers. So our entire strike force is equivalent to one of your carrier's capability!

Yep, flew at night around the boat too many times. The only thing that was never, ever, any fun. Scared the crappola out ya, even on moon lit nights. With no moon, haze, 'darker than a hat full of arseholes'.

Normal CV load these days is about 3 squadrons of hornets(36), sometimes 4. Mix of 2 seat 'F' model and single seat 'E' model, some legacy hornets still in the fleet and now the EF-18 Growler-replacing the Prowler, jamming/anti SAM bird.

Would have loved to have a gun in the F-4s I flew, 'J' models and 'S' but nose got too long with the 'E model type so no guns on USN Phantoms(couldn't see over the nose when behind the boat, on speed). DID have one in the Turkey(F-14) flew that in 2 squadrons. BIG airplane with old technology. Hard to fly around the boat. The F-4, single seat A-4, USN adversary F-16N, favorite airplanes I flew. Didn't like the Turkey, glad its gone.

To Jeff N, thanks for serving!!

[Marz]

Wow!

Thanks and hats off to both of you brave souls.

[Nags&Ducs]

mine only beef with Jack is I am jealous of the bikes he has owned. life is short and Jack is having fun. rock on Jack:banana:

My only beef with JB is that he hasn't sold me any of his bikes!!

Seriously though, Jack seems like a great guy. Always helpful and as serious a rider there is. But I do take what he says about his latest frames with a grain of salt. He is lavish with his praises and superlatives on his newest bikes.. then he sells it. Nothing really wrong with that. It just shows that he is excited about his latest acquisitions. Still, I do chuckle when I read his descriptions of his latest acquisitions. But I think it isn't anything to give him grief over. I know a lot of other guys that are guilty of the same thing. Heck, I think I am guilty of that at times, in that I vacillate between my favorites in my stable.

Ride on Jack. Keep on doing what makes you happy. :beer:

[MattyMo]

if i had a custom bike made and it didnt fit like a glove or ride as nice as a wet dream id put it up on the chopping block... even at a loss there be no reason for me to keep a bike forever that didnt ride how i felt it should especially when i could possibly find one that did.

also its a hobby and addiction....

and i like to have the latest and greatest if i could afford it.

[Rueda Tropical]

Grass is always greener...

An object in possession seldom retains the same charm that it had in pursuit.

-Pliny the Elder

[rice rocket]

Desperate to sell in the classifieds, are we?

[Bob Ross]

If you have the loot, why not?

I can tell you that if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be making calls in 5 or 6 different builders.

I don't think it was the Buying that OP was asking about, it seemed like it was the subsequent Selling that struck him as odd.

I can tell you that if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd be making calls to 5 or 6 (...wait...make that 16, give or take a couple) different builders also. But having won the lottery, I'd also have a garage big enough to keep all those bikes!

[dbh]

I'd also say life changes. I got my first custom, rode it for a year and a half, then had a baby. Riding time evaporated, and I had another road bike that fit the same purpose which I liked a bit more. Thus the custom went on the bloc.

[SpokeValley]

because it's the next one that will make you faster and more attractive to prospective partners. Not this one. I mean, jeez, just look at it.

+1 :)