Road tubless or 28mm tire or 23mm rim?

[segalpin]

Looking for input to achieve smooth riding wheel tire combination. Currently riding mavic open pros and 25mm vredistien tires. Looking to see if I can find a smoother feel without breaking the bank. Should I:

Just put on 28mm tires or
Convert to tubeless system
Or spend the money for HED Belgium wheels?

Thanks for opinions!

[fourflys]

So I have 28mm Clement Strada tires on my Salsa Casseroll and it rolls like a dream... I also have some A23 rims with the Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road tires and they are cush for sure...

I personally think the sweet spot for a normal "sport tour" bike would be a 30-32mm tire if your bike can fit them... if not, go for the 28's!

[EricEstlund]

What Vredistein? What pressure?

I'm assuming the tri-comp. I like that tire, but at a bit softer inflation.

[fourflys]

I like that tire, but at a bit softer inflation.

good point... I think many ride a tire inflated too high... on my 28's, I generally ride around 85# in the rear and 70-80# in the front on Open Pro's and I weigh around 190#...

[Wayne77]

How about all three? HED Belgiums (or A23's, etc) converted to tubeless with 28mm tires?

[segalpin]

What Vredistein? What pressure?

I'm assuming the tri-comp. I like that tire, but at a bit softer inflation.

I am riding the Fortezza's...I weigh 200 lbs., bike is a Serotta Legend w/ F3 fork and carbon seat stays. Not a ton of clearance, but it appears 28's would fit. Not sure how 23mm rims change tire profile and clearance???

[segalpin]

How about all three? HED Belgiums (or A23's, etc) converted to tubeless with 28mm tires?

Wondered about this , but did not know if tire would fit. Seems I have read where wider rims impact tire profile and maybe effective size?

[Wayne77]

Wondered about this , but did not know if tire would fit. Seems I have read where wider rims impact tire profile and maybe effective size?

What fork? If it's an Enve, a 28mm on a wide rim will fit fine I'm told (though some report that you need a Shimano brake caliper or the top of the tire might rub). In theory a wider rim should make the top of the tire come down a hair...so I don't think the rim width would cause issue. The fork will either accept a 28mm tire or it won't.

Personally, I'd love to try a 28mm tire, tubeless, on a wide rim! Something for my next build that is in the works..

[segalpin]

What fork? If it's an Enve, a 28mm on a wide rim will fit fine I'm told (though some report that you need a Shimano brake caliper or the top of the tire might rub). In theory a wider rim should make the top of the tire come down a hair...so I don't think the rim width would cause issue. The fork will either accept a 28mm tire or it won't.

Personally, I'd love to try a 28mm tire, tubeless, on a wide rim! Something for my next build that is in the works..

Serotta F3 fork and dura ace 7800 brakes

[choke]

In theory a wider rim should make the top of the tire come down a hair...so I don't think the rim width would cause issue.I agree....in theory. In reality it may make a difference. I had Ruffy Tuffys mounted on Neutrons and the back tire cleared the brake caliper by maybe 3mm - really close but I was OK with it as long as I was careful. I purchased a wheelset with A23s and mounted the Ruffy Tuffys; they rubbed the caliper (in more than one place) hard enough to prevent the wheel from spinning. The only thing that made sense to me was that because of the way the casing is made on them they grew taller on the A23s instead of wider.

[oldpotatoe]

Looking for input to achieve smooth riding wheel tire combination. Currently riding mavic open pros and 25mm vredistien tires. Looking to see if I can find a smoother feel without breaking the bank. Should I:

Just put on 28mm tires or
Convert to tubeless system
Or spend the money for HED Belgium wheels?

Thanks for opinions!

Try 28 and less air, if they fit into your frame. Easiest cheapest 'solution'.

Number 2 is the most complicated and altho a lot use standard clincher tires and tape and goop, not a great idea, IMHO-non tubeless tires and non tubeless rims-tubeless.

Or have a decent wheelbuilder use your hubs and build using a velocity A23 or H+Son Archtype..rather than the HED wheel 'system'-big $.

[Lewis Moon]

A while back I swapped out to 32c tires (Paselas) and ran them at 70F/75R. Loved them. Because I couldn't find a reasonably priced "speed" tire at 32c I moved down to 28c (Rubino Pros) and run them at 75F/80R. Not a huge change in comfort, but they feel more sure footed in the corners. On 19mm rims, the Paselas measured 30mm and the Rubinos measured 25mm. My next rims will probably be the A23s.

All in all, I really love not being beat to death on choppy roads. IMHO, a large portion of the fatigue a rider experiences on a long ride comes from being beat up, rather than from exertion.

[Chance]

Looking for input to achieve smooth riding wheel tire combination. Currently riding mavic open pros and 25mm vredistien tires. Looking to see if I can find a smoother feel without breaking the bank. Should I:

Just put on 28mm tires or
Convert to tubeless system
Or spend the money for HED Belgium wheels?

Thanks for opinions!

Dissenting opinion on the “fatter is better” theory. Under some cases it can be, while in others it makes the bike ride harder.

At the “SAME” pressure a skinnier tire feels a lot better to me over breaks in pavement, hitting a hole, or while riding over small objects on the road. Transmitted impact forces seem much less. This was pointed out a long time ago and if you pay attention it’s often true.

The main advantage to fat tires is being able to run lower pressure. But if rider is willing to run lower pressures, why go to fatter tires unless you’ve already drop your existing tires’ pressure to the very minimum you can live with? From a comfort standpoint could personally ride 25s at 60 PSI all day if needed and not worry about flats. So in my case why go to 28s or larger to run 60 PSI if 25s can also run 60 PSI? Used 60 PSI as a personal example. Use 90 PSI or whatever to compare in your own case.

When a small tire is mounted on a wide rim it seems we get the worst of both cases. The curvature of the tire simulates a wider tire which is good to suppress vibration on rough chip-seal pavement to some degree, but because the tire lacks the extra depth of a fatter tire, air pressure has to be run higher to avoid bottoming out the rim on impacts. So while this combination is reportedly better for aerodynamics, if “comfort” is the issue at hand it doesn’t make much sense to me.

Would start with lowering pressure until it becomes an issue. At that point fatter tires will allow the rider to lower pressure even further. In the mean time you can keep all your money in the bank.

[DfCas]

It has also been my wxperience that wider rims make the same tire taller.

[tv_vt]

Frankly, don't think the HED rim would smooth out the ride all that much.

Bigger tires, yes, cheapest solution, and probably the best.

Going tubeless - not without a tubeless rim and tire ATMO.

One thing you didn't mention - what spokes do you have on your wheels? If you wanted to go the rebuild route, could try the new DT RR 440 rim (kinda wide) with Revolution spokes up front and NDS in back... Just a thought.

[segalpin]

Dissenting opinion on the “fatter is better” theory. Under some cases it can be, while in others it makes the bike ride harder.

At the “SAME” pressure a skinnier tire feels a lot better to me over breaks in pavement, hitting a hole, or while riding over small objects on the road. Transmitted impact forces seem much less. This was pointed out a long time ago and if you pay attention it’s often true.

The main advantage to fat tires is being able to run lower pressure. But if rider is willing to run lower pressures, why go to fatter tires unless you’ve already drop your existing tires’ pressure to the very minimum you can live with? From a comfort standpoint could personally ride 25s at 60 PSI all day if needed and not worry about flats. So in my case why go to 28s or larger to run 60 PSI if 25s can also run 60 PSI? Used 60 PSI as a personal example. Use 90 PSI or whatever to compare in your own case.

When a small tire is mounted on a wide rim it seems we get the worst of both cases. The curvature of the tire simulates a wider tire which is good to suppress vibration on rough chip-seal pavement to some degree, but because the tire lacks the extra depth of a fatter tire, air pressure has to be run higher to avoid bottoming out the rim on impacts. So while this combination is reportedly better for aerodynamics, if “comfort” is the issue at hand it doesn’t make much sense to me.

Would start with lowering pressure until it becomes an issue. At that point fatter tires will allow the rider to lower pressure even further. In the mean time you can keep all your money in the bank.

Currently running 25's at 95 psi...will try at 85psi and see. At a current weight of 200lbs, pinch flats have been the fear of running much lower. (Bad memories of 20+ yrs ago when we all ran 18's and 20's) never changed inflation as I progressed to 23's and now 25's

[Chance]

Currently running 25's at 95 psi...will try at 85psi and see. At a current weight of 200lbs, pinch flats have been the fear of running much lower. (Bad memories of 20+ yrs ago when we all ran 18's and 20's) never changed inflation as I progressed to 23's and now 25's

There is a "HUGE" difference between 25s and 18s or even 20s at same pressure. Don't weigh anything close to 200 myself but with 18s and 20s pinch flats were common even at pressures above 100 PSI. After the first flat on the road it was always hard for me to inflate high enough with a frame pump to prevent other pinch flats.

Rarely flat with either 23s or 25s now. Mostly ride 23s. And after a flat getting them back to 60 PSI or so is plenty to get me back home no matter how far that may be.

[oldpotatoe]

Frankly, don't think the HED rim would smooth out the ride all that much.

Bigger tires, yes, cheapest solution, and probably the best.

Going tubeless - not without a tubeless rim and tire ATMO.

One thing you didn't mention - what spokes do you have on your wheels? If you wanted to go the rebuild route, could try the new DT RR 440 rim (kinda wide) with Revolution spokes up front and NDS in back... Just a thought.

Now have these rims and looking forward to building them. Single eyelet, which is no big deal if the tension is watched..OC is nice, wish there were more..

MAVIC-how about a redesign of the OpenPro with

-OC rear
-Better eyetets
-More secure wedge

know it ain't gonna happen, they want to sell wheels, not rims.

[segalpin]

Thanks for all the input...next question on switching to compact cranks on its way!

[morrisbenedict]

Here's a vote for 28s. After much variety and miles, I've settled on mavic op with conti grand pris 4 season 28s. They run beautifully at 80-90 psi, and are quite light and puncture resistant.
If you settle for 25s, there are many more tire choices, but I can feel a big difference in comfort/smoothness going up to 28s at a bit lower pressure. Very little or even no weight penalty.

[davidj]

Challenge Parigi Roubaix 27 mm (more like 29 after a few rides)

Comfy, light and fast but you will get a few more flats.

Closest thing to tubs I have ridden.

[alessandro]

The NY Velocity guys say go for tubeless and wide rims:

"Over the last six years I’ve become a convert/proselytizer first for tubeless, and then tubeless on wide rims. The ride is smooth, cornering is excellent, and I haven’t flatted once in those six years. Every time I see someone changing a flat by the roadside it’s all I can do to hold my tongue." http://nyvelocity.com/content/equipment/2013/revolution-wheelworks-rev-20

[Pete Mckeon]

:banana::banana:
Looking for input to achieve smooth riding wheel tire combination. Currently riding mavic open pros and 25mm vredistien tires. Looking to see if I can find a smoother feel without breaking the bank. Should I:

Just put on 28mm tires or
Convert to tubeless system
Or spend the money for HED Belgium wheels?

Thanks for opinions!