Touring Build Question

[Lund]

I am heading out for a bicycle tour from NY to SF via Canada & in the process of a new bike build. I am looking for drivetrain suggestions. What is a solid & reliable group? Mostly I wondering who makes a front derailleur that could handle a huge ring & also a super small granny gear, maybe like a 50-38-26. I have the new XT group on a bike & it is awesome but I will be running drop bars, so I dont think that is an option. Advice? Suggestions? Gear for sale? thanks in advance.

[vav]

Ultegra 6503 FD/RD and crankset. Carry a spare 9 speed DT shifters if you are running brifters. With 6503 you can circle the earth if you want it. Tough and reliable group. Good luck, looks like a fun adventure.

[kevintice]

+1 on Ultegra 6503 I have been using the 6503 group with 52-39-26 with no problems

[Rada]

You can use an XT drivetrain with 9 speed bar end shifters. Gearing depends on your condition, route, and load. I use a 48-36-26 in the front and 11-34 in the back when fully loaded and going through hilly/mountainous terrain. With STIs you can run 6503 FD and still use an XT RD for a bigger cassette.

[Lund]

Thanks for the responses! I am hoping to run STI. The Ultegra 6503 group looks real nice. Anyone know what kind of pull the levers have? Could I run V-brakes with them?

[thwart]

I am heading out for a bicycle tour from NY to SF via Canada
Thank you for the images that come to mind when I read this...

... on a cold, gray, blustery winter day.

[Lund]

Thank you for the images that come to mind when I read this...

... on a cold, gray, blustery winter day.

Ha! I am leaving NY late May, so weather shouldn't be too too horrible, but its going to be brutal regardless.

[GRAVELBIKE]

For 6500/6503 levers, stick with 85mm mini-v's (or shorter).
For 6700/6703 levers, you can bump up to 90mm mini-v's.

Note that you can run 90mm brakes with the 6500 levers, but the pads will need to be VERY close to the rims (since those levers pull less cable).

[Ken Robb]

my Riv Allrounder has 52-42-30 6500 rings and Ultegra FD. The rear is 11-34 7 spd. cassette with "9 speed" XT derailer. They are shifted by Sun Tour Power Ratchet friction bar-ends. I considered swapping for 9 speed cassette and bar-ends but after I bought those parts I realized that the current system works like a charm and is as bullet-proof as a group can be. 36 hole SON front hub/generator and 36 hole Shimano M-732 mtn. rear hub. The rims are some very sturdy obsolete Mavics.

I have Campy 9 and 10 speed ergo bikes and 9 speed STI bikes but for a touring bike I think bar-ends are as good as any system and better than most.

If you use bar-ends you can choose brake levers with the amount of cable pull you need for whatever brakes you want to use.

[Rada]

Thanks for the responses! I am hoping to run STI. The Ultegra 6503 group looks real nice. Anyone know what kind of pull the levers have? Could I run V-brakes with them?

With the trip you are planning I would go for function over looks. With a complete 6500/03 group you will be forced to use a road FD. Which in itself is not bad, but many tourers do prefer mountain cranksets with their lower gears. The big problem will be the road RD as you will be only able to use a 27t or 28t cog. You can still use a XT RD which will allow you to use a much better 32t or 34t. STIs should be fine, but bar ends do allow more flexibility with FD choice, are more rugged, and make it much easier to mount a handle bar bag. As Ken mentioned with bar ends you can match the brake levers to whatever brakes you prefer. I Have used mini-v's with 6500 STIs and Cane Creek SCR-5s and they both worked very well. Sounds like a great trip!

[Lund]

Thanks for the wisdom everyone. The Shimano 6500/03 group looks like a damn good choice, but I do have some reservations about the Octalink BB & cranks. Also, defiantly good arguments in favor of bar ends, I may have to reconsider my opinion about them.

[CNY rider]

Pretty sure I have 6503 stuff in the basement that I am not using, including shifters.
PM me if you are interested.

[roydyates]

Thanks for the wisdom everyone. The Shimano 6500/03 group looks like a damn good choice, but I do have some reservations about the Octalink BB & cranks. Also, defiantly good arguments in favor of bar ends, I may have to reconsider my opinion about them.
You can always choose a different crank. You're already planning on nonstandard (for 65xx) chainrings and nonstandard brakes, so why not?

The mini v-brakes probably are good, but do they have clearance if you are running fenders? You could just go with modern cantis like paul or cane creek. You could also use regular v-brakes with a jtek travelmate thingies. They came on a tandem I picked up and I found they work fine with brifters. Also, I believe the 10 speed shimano brifters are just as reliable as 9 speed. Now that you can buy 10 spd mtb cassettes, there is no reason not to consider 10 spd if you are going with brifters. Once you go that way, then maybe you might consider 5703 or 6703 brifters that don't have shift cables that get in the way of boxy front bag?
Of course, campy also solves that problem too.

In short, probably your choice of racks and bags will matter a lot more to your happiness on the trip. We will wait for your thread on that.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks for the wisdom everyone. The Shimano 6500/03 group looks like a damn good choice, but I do have some reservations about the Octalink BB & cranks. Also, defiantly good arguments in favor of bar ends, I may have to reconsider my opinion about them.

Unsupported, I would suggest barends. 9s. Friction backup and you will never be stranded. With 6500 STI, you have a lever go south, unlikely you will find another one in a bike shop. PLUS 9s cogsets, particularly MTB type easy to find just about everywhere in spite of a lot of MTB being 10s..

[AngryScientist]

Unsupported, I would suggest barends. 9s. Friction backup and you will never be stranded. With 6500 STI, you have a lever go south, unlikely you will find another one in a bike shop. PLUS 9s cogsets, particularly MTB type easy to find just about everywhere in spite of a lot of MTB being 10s..

i agree with this, but would add to go downtube shifters. bar ends are good too, but my personal preference for a place to reach to shift is the downtube.

the most expensive part, as well as the most mechanically complicated part of a groupset are the integrated shifters. if you dump them in favor of bar ends or DT shifters, you have a less expensive, more reliable machine.

[roydyates]

Unsupported, I would suggest barends. 9s. Friction backup and you will never be stranded. With 6500 STI, you have a lever go south, unlikely you will find another one in a bike shop. PLUS 9s cogsets, particularly MTB type easy to find just about everywhere in spite of a lot of MTB being 10s..

Of course what you (and Angry in the next post) say makes sense. But my feeling is that if a rider prefers brifters, there is no reason to spend thousands of miles riding a less preferable setup just because failure might then occur every 50000 miles rather than, say, every 20000 miles. Enjoying your bike tour every mile is a lot more important than being vaguely annoyed every time you reach for the barend or DT shifter.

Also, in an emergency, a lot of bike shops, even low end shops, could dredge up a spare 9 speed tiagra brifter that would work fine or you could carry a DT shifter spare, (assuming you get a frame with DT posts) as someone noted earlier.

[Rada]

The mini v-brakes probably are good, but do they have clearance if you are running fenders? You could just go with modern cantis like paul or cane creek. You could also use regular v-brakes with a jtek travelmate thingies. They came on a tandem I picked up and I found they work fine with brifters. Also, I believe the 10 speed shimano brifters are just as reliable as 9 speed. Now that you can buy 10 spd mtb cassettes, there is no reason not to consider 10 spd if you are going with brifters. Once you go that way, then maybe you might consider 5703 or 6703 brifters that don't have shift cables that get in the way of boxy front bag?
Of course, campy also solves that problem too.

In short, probably your choice of racks and bags will matter a lot more to your happiness on the trip. We will wait for your thread on that.

I use mini-v's on my 520 with fenders and racks with zero fit problem. It is a good question though and could come into play depending on the frame he is using.

Nine speed chains are more robust than it's thinner cousin ten speed. When hauling heavy loads over the length the OP is travelling I'd go with nine speed myself.

[maxdog]

It really isn't about the bike. As a veteran of many, many thousands of miles of touring, mostly done on equipment that predates many forum members, I would say the number one most important factor is a good route and good maps.
If your bike is even registering on your conscience thoughts while your riding, your missing the best part of the tour. As long as your fit is comfortable and equipment is in decent shape, your problems should be limited to the usual minor problems; flats, spokes and maybe your chain or a minor adjustment to your equipment. Things like a multi-tool, chain tool, spare spokes and something like a small vice-grips as well as plenty of tubes and a folding spare tire or two would be my basic equipment recommendations.
I did 95% of my touring in the pre cellphone days without any major problems, so it is hard to imagine any this day in age.
Cash and plastic are also an important safety measure.
Another important consideration is the proper fitness for your venture. As is always important in life, know your limitations. Your stated route will of course be against the generally prevailing winds, which can be a substantial issue.
Plenty of water and nutrition are also important considerations, as well as bags which will keep your weather sensitive gear dry in wet conditions.

Having said all this, some of my best memories with regard to riding, as well as life in general, are my tours. This is especially true of my earliest tours, which were almost entirely camping and very self reliant.
It's all about the experience. I know in our commercial/consumerist society it's hard to keep this concept in focus, but I'm in the camp that feels when we are living the last of our days, it wont be about the possessions we have had, but our experiences and how we related to them. Good luck and enjoy your tour.

[deanster]

I currently have 2 bikes: Ritchey Breakaway Cross and a Gunnar Crosshairs and multiple wheel sets for road, dirt roads, single track, touring, etc.

Ritchey: Cross, Touring, dirt Road
Shimano: Bar end shifters 9 spd, SLX MTB RD, and 11-34 cassette.
Campagnolo Centaur: BB and crankset 50/39/26, Campy triple FD, and
Wheel Sets: Campy hubs with shimano style Cassette Hub bodies that fit the campy hubs, DT Swiss 14/15 spokes, wide rims 21mm 32H Salsa Delgado Cross rims and 36H DT Swiss spokes 14/15 with TK 7.1 rims each can be setup for cross or fully loaded touring.
MiniVees (9mm), and Cane Creek MiniVee drop brake levers (longer pull with a look and feel more like the STI levers).
This is the Ideal touring setup for simplicity and fully loaded safety (the brakes REALLY work with the CC levers).

Gunnar: Road / Cross / Dirt road / Touring Maybe.
Campy Record 10spd Ergo levers, Triple FD, long cage RD.
Chorus Al crankset 50/40/26 and BB
Wheelsets: Record Hubs, 14/15 spokes, 32 H DT Swiss RR 1.1 rims and 36H Mavic Open Pro rims. Cassette 13-29 Campy.

The primary difference is the Ritchey is setup for the wide rims (21mm) for heavy duty riding and the Gunnar is setup as an XC and light road bike with narrow (19mm) road rims. Both bikes are setup with the most extreme gearing for the groups. The one change I made for comfort and ease of BarEnd shifting was to go to the RSA ergo bars.

I would suggest your Shimano group and swapping out the combo brake/shft levers for the Cane Creek MiniVee levers and bar ends. Should work very well.
That would be the cheapest fix. I really don't know why you need the Big Front chain ring for loaded touring. Your MTB group should give you enough on the high end with a 48 or less CR and an 11 cog Rear gear. Touring fully loaded you will be more reliant on the lower end of the gearing on hills and/or headwinds. An 11 by 50 (or 52) is just high enough to kill you speeding downhill fully loaded. Road burn is awful in remote places.
My Ritchey setup was sufficient for the Italian Alps (Dolomites). I simply carried different foldups for on and off road riding.
Good Luck and have fun.,,don't over think the ride without experimenting or you may spend more than you need to.
Oldpotatoe helped me with my choices.

Start simple and try everything out.

[Bradford]

After years of touring, I'm also in the bar ends camp. I have a mix of shimano mountain stuff that has been pulled together over the years I can't even remember when each part went on...and all work like a charm. This is one time when piecing together some 9 speed XT stuff from 10 years ago is probably better than going new.

I always plan for a worst case scenario, and unfortunately, I've seen a few. I once had a major failure 120 miles away from the nearest bike shop, so I don't plan on anyone bailing me out. And don't count on that bike shop having what you need...the bike shops in the Wyoming don't always have the selection of bike city shops. Bring you own parts, enough tools, and know how to fix your bike on the side of the road.

Based on riding with other people on tours, brifters can be a little tough to adjust on a loaded bike, especially when running a spread as big as the one you are planning on in the front. By the way, I run 50-39-26 with a 13/34 on my touring bike and I works very well. Friction for the front, index for the back. I also wouldn't want down tube shifters on a fully loaded bike because there are going to be plenty of times you won't want to pull you hands off the bars to reach down with a loaded bike.

Go simple and strong. That means 9 speed, mountain components, and bar ends.

[sam.g]

I'd also like to weigh in on the side of bar-end shifters for loaded self contained touring. I've found that on many climbs my speed can drop below 4 mph and it's hard enough to keep balanced without having to move a hand off the bars.

My current set up on a Waterford T22 has a TA Zephyr 48-35-22 in front with a 105 dr and 11-32 9-speed cassette with a XT dr. I've never had a problem with precise gear changes running DA bar-ends, friction up front and index in the rear.

I'd also recommend packing a Leatherman or some other needle nose pliers for repairing a broken cables on the road.

Sam in Cincy

[Ken Robb]

These posts are making more and more sense to me. OTOH I did run 48-38-28 TA Zephyr cranks and 13-29 Chorus 10 speed successfully. But bar-end shifters are hard to beat for all but racing.

[NeauDL]

Good luck finding this item; not made in several years. I've gone through two 5503s and even they are hard to find. But I think there are some other Shimano FDs from groups which are still 9 speed which can work.

[killacks]

It really isn't about the bike. As a veteran of many, many thousands of miles of touring, mostly done on equipment that predates many forum members, I would say the number one most important factor is a good route and good maps.
If your bike is even registering on your conscience thoughts while your riding, your missing the best part of the tour. As long as your fit is comfortable and equipment is in decent shape, your problems should be limited to the usual minor problems; flats, spokes and maybe your chain or a minor adjustment to your equipment. Things like a multi-tool, chain tool, spare spokes and something like a small vice-grips as well as plenty of tubes and a folding spare tire or two would be my basic equipment recommendations.
I did 95% of my touring in the pre cellphone days without any major problems, so it is hard to imagine any this day in age.
Cash and plastic are also an important safety measure.
Another important consideration is the proper fitness for your venture. As is always important in life, know your limitations. Your stated route will of course be against the generally prevailing winds, which can be a substantial issue.
Plenty of water and nutrition are also important considerations, as well as bags which will keep your weather sensitive gear dry in wet conditions.

Having said all this, some of my best memories with regard to riding, as well as life in general, are my tours. This is especially true of my earliest tours, which were almost entirely camping and very self reliant.
It's all about the experience. I know in our commercial/consumerist society it's hard to keep this concept in focus, but I'm in the camp that feels when we are living the last of our days, it wont be about the possessions we have had, but our experiences and how we related to them. Good luck and enjoy your tour.

I like this advice :)

[buddybikes]

If anything to overbuild is a good set of wheels. Depending upon your total weight, perhaps 40 spoke rear wheel should be considered. Hub with a good pawl mechanism. Handlebar tape, perhaps 2 layers gel tape or those tapes with cushy stuff underneath. With 11 tooth cog popular could you go with a more standard mountain triple group so everything is in synch?

[oldpotatoe]

Good luck finding this item; not made in several years. I've gone through two 5503s and even they are hard to find. But I think there are some other Shimano FDs from groups which are still 9 speed which can work.

Biggest issue is 6703 triples went to a 52/39 rather than 52/42 with a corresponding really deep FD cage that 'may' see the inner cage hit the middle ring when on the large ring.

[Bradford]

If anything to overbuild is a good set of wheels. Depending upon your total weight, perhaps 40 spoke rear wheel should be considered.

Lund, since we are all interested, can you give us some details on the bike and other bits? Frame, racks, panniers, wheels...etc.

Most people who have done extensive loaded touring have strong opinions, mostly coming from problems we have faced on the road at one time or another.

As for wheels, I'm in the camp described above. Wheels are the most important part of the bike. I just had a set built by Peter White...Dyads laced to White Industry hubs, 40 holes on the back and 36 on the front.

[csm]

I haven't done much lately but back in the day....
I do have a Salsa Fargo that I've done some rail trail touring on. I have a salsa wanderer rack with hyalite bags. I second/third the bar end shifters for exactly the reasons above. Funny, I think this thread has subconsciously inspired me to look at more touring stuff. Planning low rider rack and smaller bags up front. Whiled away a good part of the afternoon surfing the net.
My dad does way more touring than I do. He went through 3 treks ( on the 4th 520 now) and now rides a Fargo as well. He had one trek frame crack 1 day into a ride from Oregon back east. The unplanned can and does happen. A the time, I worked full time for a trek dealer and managed to get him to a dealer and warranty the frame. Trek was very good about it and he swore by treks for years. I think all said he's probably bought 8 or 9 of them.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Frankwurst]

Bar ends. If it were me they would be straight friction but I realize most people don't groove to friction anymore so I'd do shimano index/friction. I did a cross country ride years ago and I'd do it with barends again without question. 48-34-22 (or there abouts) for the front and build it from there. :beer:

[oldpotatoe]

Bar ends. If it were me they would be straight friction but I realize most people don't groove to friction anymore so I'd do shimano index/friction. I did a cross country ride years ago and I'd do it with barends again without question. 48-34-22 (or there abouts) for the front and build it from there. :beer:

Bing, bing, bing, we have a winner. Super quick, super precise(when adjusted) index shifting on a touring rig just isn't necessary. Reliability is. As anybody who has done unsupported touring will tell ya, getting stranded, sticking the thumb out, trying to get the whatever fixed or replaced in the little town where the only 'bike shop' is a Western Auto or Walmart..can be no fun.

[oliver1850]

I have new 5603 and 6603 FDs if anyone needs one.

[bikingshearer]

Another vote for bar-ends for loaded touring. Shimano bar ends that can used in indexed or friction mode, specifically. And this coming from a guy who uses Campy Ergo on almost all my bikes.

Barcons are better than down-tube for the obvious reason that sometimes you really, really want to keep both hands on the bars while shifting. Barcons allow that. I have done serious loaded touring with both down tube shifters and barcons - barcons are better and safer for this application.

They are also better than brifters for loaded touring for several reasons. One is expense. Two is reliability - indexing, especially on brifters, can get finicky when you put a bunch of miles in one trip with less than optimum cleaning, etc. The more gears in the back, the more finicky shifting can get. It is awfully good to have the friction option as a back-up. Three, whatever maintenance or repair work you do on the road will be one heck of a lot easier with barcons than brifters. In a pinch, you can break down barcons on the road. Not so with brifters.

Also, barcons give you far more flexibility shifting a FD than do Shimano brifters. (This isn't an issue with Campy brifters, but I seriously doubt you are considering running a Campy drivetrain on your touting rig.)

Finally, using barcons means you can pick brake levers that work with whatever brakes you choose. Need more pull than brifters give? No worries; you can use brake levers that get the job done without affecting your shifting.

[Lund]

Its been awhile, sorry for not updating, but I am working hard to pay for this bike & my tour. Here is my new bike. After searching for the right touring bike for a year or more, I decided to go custom. Heres a few quick pictures.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b161/wearedressedtokill/IMG_0977.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b161/wearedressedtokill/IMG_0937.jpg

Made in San Francisco by Cameron Falconer

Thanks to all for the build advice. I listened to the suggestions & have began to acquire some good stuff. Suntour bar ends, 9 speed XT drivetrain & wheels, Bruce Gordon rear rack, Chris King H/S, & a Hope stem. Still need quite abit of gear but it is coming along. Biggest priority is some quality cranks, looking for a 170 triple. Anyway, I am real pumped on this build, & soon will be ready to take off into Canada.

[oliver1850]

Looks like you're going to have a nice bike. I recently rode a 9 speed bike with Suntour bar cons and was surprised how well they worked with the narrow spaced cogs and a Tiagra RD.

What are you looking for in a crank? I'm sure I have a new black Mirage 170, might have a silver Veloce. Have a used silver Mirage, not sure how nice it is without looking.

[Lund]

What are you looking for in a crank? I'm sure I have a new black Mirage 170, might have a silver Veloce. Have a used silver Mirage, not sure how nice it is without looking.
Thanks for the offer, but preferably looking for XT or XTR, new or older doesnt matter. Maybe some Sugino's would work too.