Merckx Vs. Ciocc

[cachagua]

Anyone ridden both?

I've had a 56cm ST Corsa Extra for a little less than a year and found it very satisfying to ride. I have a chance to buy a 57cm Ciocc, SL instead of SLX, same length top tube, a little older... it looks very attractive because I don't want any more top tube but I could stand a little more seat tube. The two frames are built very similar, but I wonder if small variations in geometry might result in considerably different riding feel?

If there's any characteristic difference in the way the two marques ride, I'd like to hear about it. Or if they're hard to even tell apart when you're riding them, that'd be information too...

Thanks in advance.

[mister]

seat tube angle on the two frames will make a difference in how long the top tube feels

[CaptStash]

Maybe you should try out my Klein Quantum first!:banana::banana:

PS: It's go tthe DA 7400 cranks you were lusting after on it.

[wallymann]

i have a "long" ciocc made of SL. there was a few year stretch when pelizzoli made a preponderance of square frames with matching TT and ST lengths. mine is 58x58.

mine has steep angles, look like 74 parallel or maybe even slightly steeper HTA, which makes the STA pretty steep for a biggish frame, so the TT is functionally even longer than the physical spec. also has what appears to be more fork-rake than your typical steel bike.

handling-wise it's different. it will hold a nice line in a corner, but getting it to turn-in takes deliberate effort compared to all my other bikes. it's not a big deal, i only notice it when i jump on the ciocc after spending alot of time on my other bikes.

i'm still awaiting my merckx repair/repaint, so have no experience with that setup for comparison.

http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_ciocc_mockba-80.jpg

[zmudshark]

I own a couple of Merckx Professionals. I have ridden some Ciocc's but never owned one.

The Merckx's I own are great all around riders. I believe Merckx changed the geometry slightly when he came out with Corsa/Corsa Extras. I am under the impression that they are a bit more 'relaxed' than the Professional models.

So much involves personal preferences and riding style, I would hesitate to recommend one over the other. The Ten Speed Drive Ciocc's I have seen I was not impressed with. I think there was a murky period where perhaps the name was licensed? I'm sure someone will have a clearer picture.

I love my Merckx's, but you won't find finely filed lugs on them. They are tools for a purpose, and fulfill that purpose well.

[cachagua]

I wasn't completely clear about that, I realize. The Merckx is 56ST/56TT, the Ciocc is 57/56. Which could easily be accounted for by a steeper seat tube, true enough.

Come to think, maybe I could love a 57cm TT after all; the other bike that size I just got rid of ('cause I couldn't stand the handling) also had a way steep ST. The reluctance to initiate a turn was what drove me away from the one I'm describing there, a Bruce Gordon -- but the my Merckx also had that problem in a BAD way when I bought it. I happened to have a spare fork, which measured considerably shorter in rake than the Merckx fork -- and it totally cured the problem. Bike handles like a dream now. So you might try the same with that red Ciocc of yours, or if you didn't want to due to esthetics I wouldn't blame you It's a beauty! The Suntour seatpost... nothing but class.

Curiouser and curiouser. But I guess I better toddle over the ridge and check out the Captain's Klein! Low-cost empiricism: why buy when you could borrow.

Any other reports?

[dd74]

http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_ciocc_mockba-80.jpg
Nothing to add except that this bike is gorgeous.

[Brucer]

I agree. Makes me want to get on it and ride. (Although it's 6 in the morning on a winter day and it's 12 degrees outside. My fantasies carry me away.)

[oldpotatoe]

I own a couple of Merckx Professionals. I have ridden some Ciocc's but never owned one.

The Merckx's I own are great all around riders. I believe Merckx changed the geometry slightly when he came out with Corsa/Corsa Extras. I am under the impression that they are a bit more 'relaxed' than the Professional models.

So much involves personal preferences and riding style, I would hesitate to recommend one over the other. The Ten Speed Drive Ciocc's I have seen I was not impressed with. I think there was a murky period where perhaps the name was licensed? I'm sure someone will have a clearer picture.

I love my Merckx's, but you won't find finely filed lugs on them. They are tools for a purpose, and fulfill that purpose well.

Own 4 Merckx's right now(2 MXLeaders, a Corsa and a Professional) and a 1985 Ciocc SL. I like the ride of all but the Ciocc is a more 'crit-ish' geometry with a steeper seat tube and head tube angle, wee bit shorter wheelbase.

[joep2517]

OT: One day I will own a Ciocc. For some reason Ciocc (and Colnago) bikes have had a special place in my heart. Growing up they were sweet bikes.

[phcollard]

What zmudshark said.

I never had the chance to ride a Ciocc but a friend of mine had one, when he crashed it he replaced the Ciocc with a Merckx. I have never discussed how both bikes ride in details with him, but for what it's worth he is much happier with the Merckx. I remember him saying the Ciocc was nice, but the Merckx is amazing.

How much for your 56? :D

[cachagua]

What? NOOO! I'm keeping the Merckx no MATTER what I do about the Ciocc.

Generally I don't like steep-angled, short-wheelbase bikes so well, so perhaps I may bow out of the bidding on this one. I could rehabilitate the 57cm Club Classic that's rusting in my basement, and probably enjoy riding it just as much.

A piece of my motivation -- besides that they're lovely and legendary bikes -- was to repaint the Ciocc and create new decals for it. I wanted to make a "B" that teardrops off its left side like the "C" does, so the bike could become

"Biocc".

Maybe that's not very funny? Maybe not funny enough to repaint a perfectly good bike? I have a weird sense of humor, I guess.

[R2D2]

I rode a CIOCC for years and years. As many have said is is very quick handling and takes some attention. It was a helluva climbing bike once you were used to the geometry. The biggest issue I had was it would beat you to death on longer rides with the steep angles. I came home with numb hands a lot.