So what WOULD Lance have to do . . . [Archive]

BumbleBeeDave

01-15-2013, 05:59 AM

. . . to convince you that he really means it when he confesses and apologizes--assuming that's what he actually does?

I've always felt myself to be a pretty forgiving person, able to forgive and move on if somebody will just admit they were wrong and made a mistake. I've also tried hard to be able to admit when I'm wrong and be comnfortable in my mind that I did the right thing. "Forgive and forget" . . . at least with friends and most of the time with others below the level of international genocidal maniac.

But I've actually struggled with this question these last few days in relation to Armstrong. After all, he didn't kill anybody. I'm sure he did kill a few careers and the guy IS a major tool, as he has demonstrated again and again. But does that really put him beyond redemtpino for ME?

What WOULD he have to do, beyond an assumed sincere public apology?

Would I have to read news accounts from an astonished Fillippo Simeoni about Lance suddenly walking into his Italian business without warning and apologizing in person?

What about returning all the ill-gotten monetary gains? I mean ALL of them and be left living in a suburban Austin townhouse and working at the LBS while running a bike recycling charity in his off time?

Would I have to read the transcript of his testimony to USADA where he spills ALL the beans, taking down Verbruggen, McQuaid, the anonymous drug suppliers, and read about the federal racketeering indictments against Weisel and others?

Or would the confession and apology itself do the trick IF it impresses me as TRULY sincere?

I've been wondering lately and re-examining in my own head what the concepts of forgiveness and charity really are and what they mean to me.

Have any of the rest of you had the same thoughts?

What WOULD Lance have to do to convince YOU?

BBD

FlashUNC

01-15-2013, 06:12 AM

An in-person, hat-in-hand apology to Christophe Bassons would be a good start. But I don't believe a word the guy says. I think Betsy Andreu nailed it. He's not a guy who does things out of the goodness of his heart.

rain dogs

01-15-2013, 06:28 AM

Everything he has achieved in his life is built on a foundation of cheating, lying and intimidating. He has everything he has now, from that.

So, he should return it all. Every last bit, every last penny (which I realize will never happen)

All we have in life is our character... and we build ourselves from that. Lance has no character...so he has nothing but a bunch of money ... and now shame and (I suppose) guilt?.

He should trade everything he's got (all the money, all the prizes, all the futures, all the book deals, all the yellow jerseys) and start again from anonymity. Go back to being Lance Gundarsson (or whatever his name was)

If he did THAT, he'd convice me for sure. But that would take someone with unquestionable character.

Anything less is more of the same. Like Nicole Cooke eluded to. He won all the way up the same way he's going to win all the way down.

I don't personally care what he does, (I've always viewed him as a broken myth and an unfortunate distraction)... but you asked our opinions.

Ray

01-15-2013, 06:32 AM

I'm not looking for an apology. I'd take something like Nicholson's famous scene in that movie with Tom Cruise. 'You don't want the truth - you can't HANDLE the truth'!!! Something along the lines of I had to make a decision very early whether to stay in Europe and compete and try to be a champion cyclist or whether to get out of cycling and find another way to make a living. Staying meant doping wasn't optional. Given how much time and work and dedication I'd already put into cycling and how much I loved (and still love) the sport, I elected to stay. And if I was going to do it, I was going to do it the way I do everything - full on, to win, no prisoners. And people got burned along the way and now I'm getting burned. Its the risk you take, its not pretty. But I chose to do it and I'm proud of my accomplishments regardless, because I know all of the guys I was competing against were doping as well and I was the best of my era. I respect the guys who chose not to dope and who gave up on cycling - they made a moral choice that was right for them. I chose to fight on the only battlefield that existed for a cyclist who wanted to be the best...

Contrition I won't buy. Tyler and Floyd weren't contrite either, except about the lying, and their point was mostly what a huge relief it was to be able to stop lying and just get it off their shoulders. Neither expressed any real regret about the doping and both had indicated they'd have been more than happy to continue if they hadn't gotten caught. I think that's the only honest answer from any of these guys.

-Ray

bostondrunk

01-15-2013, 06:36 AM

Everything you guys say may be true, but he is still no more guilty than all the other riders who have been forgiven over the past 15 years.
OK, maybe he was the best at the doping game? Are Tyler, Floyd, Virenque, Basso, etc to blame less just because they were actually caught?

Bumblebeedave, here is a newsflash for you.........Lance played the 'game' better than anyone else. And he didn't put a gun to anyone else's head to take drugs. Even Tyler had the balls to say that. It's a pro sport, and he played it the way it was being played. We all know that there is a reason that there is essentially no one to award those jerseys to now.
Lance was a pro athlete. He is worth 100 million and has lived a fantastic life. Even if he lost half his money to lawsuits, which he won't, he'll still have had, and have, a great life. Who's the winner....

Rueda Tropical

01-15-2013, 06:51 AM

He doesn't need to convince me or anyone else of his sincerity... anymore then Hamilton or Landis do. He needs to give up his co-conspirators.

Actions and not words.

Spare us the soap opera. Why he did it, whether or not he's sincere, his personal redemption... who cares? That's his business. Make a contribution to cycling by telling everything in detail with nothing left out.

Make yourself part of the solution instead of the problem and it's all good. Hwo he deals with his personal demons is none of my business.

phcollard

01-15-2013, 06:55 AM

... He is worth 100 million and has lived a fantastic life. Even if he lost half his money to lawsuits, which he won't, he'll still have had, and have, a great life. Who's the winner....

It's not all about money :rolleyes:

Rueda Tropical

01-15-2013, 06:56 AM

Bumblebeedave, here is a newsflash for you.........Lance played the 'game' better than anyone else. And he didn't put a gun to anyone else's head to take drugs. Even Tyler had the balls to say that. It's a pro sport, and he played it the way it was being played. We all know that there is a reason that there is essentially no one to award those jerseys to now.
Lance was a pro athlete. He is worth 100 million and has lived a fantastic life. Even if he lost half his money to lawsuits, which he won't, he'll still have had, and have, a great life. Who's the winner....

You could the same about crooked politicians, cops or bankers. I guess if they get caught breaking the rules they should just be able to say 'everyone is doing it'. Get over it. It's not my fault, society is crooked. Deal with it. It's not fair for me to get punished when "everyone" is doing it.

Depends on the kind of world you want to live in. If the crooks and cheats are the 'winners' and the suckers who do the right thing are losers... you have the recipe for a failed society.

William

01-15-2013, 07:00 AM

I'm not looking for an apology. I'd take something like Nicholson's famous scene in that movie with Tom Cruise. 'You don't want the truth - you can't HANDLE the truth'!!! Something along the lines of I had to make a decision very early whether to stay in Europe and compete and try to be a champion cyclist or whether to get out of cycling and find another way to make a living. Staying meant doping wasn't optional. Given how much time and work and dedication I'd already put into cycling and how much I loved (and still love) the sport, I elected to stay. And if I was going to do it, I was going to do it the way I do everything - full on, to win, no prisoners. And people got burned along the way and now I'm getting burned. Its the risk you take, its not pretty. But I chose to do it and I'm proud of my accomplishments regardless, because I know all of the guys I was competing against were doping as well and I was the best of my era. I respect the guys who chose not to dope and who gave up on cycling - they made a moral choice that was right for them. I chose to fight on the only battlefield that existed for a cyclist who wanted to be the best...

-Ray

I might be able to buy that if he had just tried to be the best doped of the doped to win. But the fact that he stepped on, squashed, and generally had no problem going out of his way to ruin the livelyhoods of anyone who wasn't "on his team"....thats what I have a problem with. You want to lie your way to the top? That's your choice....deal with the consequences. You want to ruin others lives to protect your lie, that's another in my book.

William

sc53

01-15-2013, 07:08 AM

CBS saying that he is in negotiation with Justice Dept to return "a portion" of the $35 million USPS paid his team in sponsorship, and has offered to testify against others. Deadline for Justice to join in Floyd's whistleblowing lawsuit is Thursday, same day Oprah interview airs. The whistleblowing "qui tam" lawsuit can award triple damages so he'd better hope it goes away.
Whatever, Lance. Apologize to Betsy, Emma, Frankie et al. and go back to your Austin crib with the blondes.

Ray

01-15-2013, 07:09 AM

I might be able to buy that if he had just tried to be the best doped of the doped to win. But the fact that he stepped on, squashed, and generally had no problem going out of his way to ruin the livelyhoods of anyone who wasn't "on his team"....thats what I have a problem with. You want to lie your way to the top? That's your choice....deal with the consequences. You want to ruin others lives to protect your lie, that's another in my book.

William

I have a problem with that as well - a big one. But I don't think he does. That's why I'll believe him if he says something like 'no prisoners - I played the game as hard and ruthless as I needed to in order to be the best". I'm not looking for contrition or an apology - just something like the truth.

-Ray

bikerboy337

01-15-2013, 07:35 AM

For me.... he's led this lie for so long, destroyed so many people, and used cancer as his shield... there is nothing he can do now to come clean for me...

If, and its a big IF... IF he had spoken to USADA this summer and helped in that process, I might have been able to come around, but now... its purely self serving, and benefits no one but Lance... IMHO

FlashUNC

01-15-2013, 07:46 AM

Even if he lost half his money to lawsuits, which he won't, he'll still have had, and have, a great life. Who's the winner....

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3Sy4Nq-bpC8/UGIImvFjSLI/AAAAAAAAALU/iNvLDg6RFKM/s1600/citizen-kane-rosebud-895f1.png

rugbysecondrow

01-15-2013, 07:49 AM

The notion that we are owed something from Lance is laughable. The notion that he would have to do A, B and C to earn our forgiveness is laughable. Mainly because that is not how forgivness works people. Forgiveness is about you letting go and moving on, regardless of what the other person does. It is something given, something precious that often isn't "earned".

He was an entertainer, a bike racer, a fundraiser to us. He didn't trample us, ruin our career, prohibit or limit my livlihood, in fact he provided us with years of racing, years of good stories, years of colorful yellow bracelets to wear, years of increased bike sales and huge popularity. He was exalted and now he will be villified, all by the same people.

Nope, he doesn't owe us anything. Period. It seems we are even.

Dave B

01-15-2013, 07:53 AM

I do not know what it would like to be Lance and have to win those tours. He wanted to win at all costs and had a lot of people to answer to if he didn't. I do not know what that is like. I have not walked in his actual shoes, maybe a pair I bought, but you understand.

For me to pass judgement on him seems silly when I too, as best I can, do not always make the right or honest decision. What do I need from Lance...nothing.

He will never fix all the wrong he did to others. I enjoyed watching him win his tours. it was fun to get caught up in the Lancemania. I was naive in the beginning to peds, but the guy still worked his arse off to be as good as he was.

William

01-15-2013, 07:58 AM

The notion that we are owed something from Lance is laughable. The notion that he would have to do A, B and C to 3 earn our forgiveness is laughable. Mainly because that is not how forgivness works people. Forgiveness is about you letting go and moving on, regardless of what the other person does.

I think most people get that. But, being this is a cycling forum and someone asked a hypothetical question to which folks can answer hypothetically, what's the beef? Very few if anyone here knows LA personally so it's all just talk....which is what you do on a forum.

Jeez, you and your real world responses!:rolleyes:;):D

William

PS: Though, one could argue that those who donated to LS due to belief in "The Miracle Comeback" myth may feel like they are owed something.:confused:

oldpotatoe

01-15-2013, 08:00 AM

OtayBW

01-15-2013, 08:03 AM

I don't want anything from Lance. However, if Lance want acceptance of an(y) apology from anyone else, he might think about stopping the manipulative media testing and staging calculated to portray himself in the best theatrical light. There is no apology here. It's all just the same old self-serving *****. He's an endurance bull*****ter.

William

01-15-2013, 08:03 AM

Turns out a gent we know drives a limo. About 4 weeks ago Lance was in Boulder, went to see 'somebody' in Table Mesa area..

The driver was in yesterday to mention that yep, he drove Lance around..and they talked about bike shops. Lance looked up Vecchio's on his phone..mentioned that he 'may' be back in Boulder this spring..wanted the same driver...mentioned he 'may' want to come in..

MY POINT is if he does, I will be gracious, and smile, and thank him, and have him sign the Motorola jersey, answer his questions...and thank him for coming in...why NOT??

NO REASON to climb on his back. That would accomplish nothing.

My view, if you don't agree, oh well.

Hey, a customer is a customer.

William

jr59

01-15-2013, 08:04 AM

rugbysecondrow

01-15-2013, 08:05 AM

Maybe I didn't read the same jovial or hypothetical tone you did, it seems BBD, Bikerboy and other gave very real answer, just as real, albeit different, then my own.

In short, there was nothing hypothetical about it.

I think most people get that. But, being this is a cycling forum and someone asked a hypothetical question to which folks can answer hypothetically, what's the beef? Very few if anyone here knows LA personally so it's all just talk....which is what you do on a forum.

Jeez, you and your real world responses!:rolleyes:;):D

William

PS: Though, one could argue that those who donated to LS due to belief in "The Miracle Comeback" myth may feel like they are owed something.:confused:

oldpotatoe

01-15-2013, 08:10 AM

Hey, a customer is a customer.

William

Maybe a mellow johnnys MTN.

Elefantino

01-15-2013, 08:13 AM

Good questions, BBD. In a short and overly simplistic answer, there's nothing he has to do for me.

He's a cheat. He denied. He ruined lives. He got caught. And now, only when he's facing the firing squad, does he come forward. Like the others, it proves he was a fraud. Oh well. Can't turn back the clock, certainly not for the LeMonds or the Andreus or Simeoni or Bassons or anyone else caught in the crossfire.

If he can't make it right for them, and he can't, then there's nothing he has to do to change my ultimate, altered perception of him.

Understand that if he confesses and takes down the UCI and the Rich Boys Club and people go to prison etc., etc., then that's great. He's just doing what he's supposed to do. That's his obligation, to do the right thing.

Doesn't make him any less of a cheat or a fraud or a life-wrecker. Just a repentant one. And no more deserving of respect than any other denier turned confesser.

We should look up to the ones who said no. Or who, when caught, took their punishment and tried to change the system from within. I'd throw a leg over with those guys anytime.

FastforaSlowGuy

01-15-2013, 08:15 AM

Great thread. I've been wrestling with this same question, although most (non-cyclists) I work with have no idea why it bothers me. What I struggle with is that Lance stole from cycling its reputation and character, not because he was the only doper and cheater but because he was the only one with the global platform and the industry dominance to commit such a large scale theft. It reminds me of a passage from Othello:

Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls.
Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands;
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him,
And makes me poor indeed.

If it was just the money, Lance could easily earn his redemption by simply returning it. But what he stole is cycling's "good name", and it's a hard, hard thing to return that once it has been taken away. It tarnishes not just athletes from his era (many of whom were complicit or participated in the doping), but because of his stubborn deceit he has also created a poisonous atmosphere for today's generation. I may be naive, but I believe that today's pros are clean-er than the Lance generation, but they are left to pay the price for Lance and company's choices through lost sponsorships and the like.

Lance is definitely being targeted for his celebrity, but I have a hard time seeing a way for me to grant him any measure of forgiveness for the wrongs he has committed against others and against an entire sport.

pinkshogun

01-15-2013, 08:28 AM

if he fixed me up with Sheryl Crow i could find forgiveness in my heart for Lance

charliedid

01-15-2013, 08:30 AM

Lance does not owe me anything...

Dave B

01-15-2013, 08:35 AM

on second thought if Lance wants to give me money I am fine with that.

christian

01-15-2013, 08:41 AM

Lance doesn't owe me anything. He cheated at sport, he got caught, he is serving his punishment.

I think it would be appropriate for him to apologize to the Andreus, Emma O'Reilly, Filippo Simeoni, Christophe Bassons, but that's between him and them.

PQJ

01-15-2013, 08:54 AM

Who's the winner....

Certainly not Lance. He has lost what was most important to him and won't be getting it back (and it has nothing to do with $$). Were he not such a narcissistic prick, he probably could've gotten away with a 6 month ban and keeping at least a few (and possibly) all of his erstwhile Tour victories.

Cliche though it is, I guess you'd have to say the truth is the winner, and that's not such a bad thing.

BumbleBeeDave

01-15-2013, 09:02 AM

Doesn't make him any less of a cheat or a fraud or a life-wrecker. Just a repentant one. And no more deserving of respect than any other denier turned confesser.

Does TRUE repentance make a difference? What would he have to do to TRULY convince me that he is TRULY repentant--that he has truly seen the light and changed as a person? I believe it IS possible for someone to do that. but what do they have to do to truly show it? And what would Lance have to do to truly show it?

I like to think that I'm not so judgmental that I could never forgive. To carry the bitterness of a grudge my whole life? So if I am to live up to this vision of who I would like to be--who I thought I was--I need to figure out how I would answer this question and that is what I have been thinking about. I just wondered if others had considered the same question.

BBD

laupsi

01-15-2013, 09:06 AM

Forget about the professional cyclist, LA is a self serving, shortsighted and desperate man. His actions speak volumes about his soul and his moral values. Looking at everything together I honestly believe his connection w/Livestrong was mostly to further his personal agenda. Helping cancer survivors/patients was simply a byproduct in most of his efforts.

Truth hurts but it's still the truth. I wish I didn't feel this way but all the evidence and history of his story is overwhelming IMHO. The fallout from all this on those who "believed" or had/have cancer undoes all the good he "did".

If LA is doomed to being banned for another 8 years at a minimum, I want to see him continue to do the good work supporting the cancer cause w/as much vigor and engery as he did prior to this train wreck becoming public. It was then that his "support" and work coupled as his biggest marketing tool.

Perhaps if LA did this, truly comitted to the cause w/out anything in it for himself, he would earn redemption and forgiveness from me.

rugbysecondrow

01-15-2013, 09:09 AM

Does TRUE repentance make a difference? What would he have to do to TRULY convince me that he is TRULY repentant--that he has truly seen the light and changed as a person? I believe it IS possible for someone to do that. but what do they have to do to truly show it? And what would Lance have to do to truly show it?

I like to think that I'm not so judgmental that I could never forgive. To carry the bitterness of a grudge my whole life? So if I am to live up to this vision of who I would like to be--who I thought I was--I need to figure out how I would answer this question and that is what I have been thinking about. I just wondered if others had considered the same question.

BBD

In all honesty, the first paragraph and the second are incongruent. You be who you want to be, offer forgiveness to those who might not think deserve it, but need it. Be that person, that vision regardless of whether you feel completely satisfied that justice has been done or rights wronged. Forgiveness is not respect, trust or anything else. It is also not amnesty, thinking that no punishment is necesary.

If you want to be the forgiving type, then that is your struggle and ought not be tied to what Lance or anybody else does.

MilanoTom

01-15-2013, 09:12 AM

At what point does one decide to believe the apologies of a sociopath?

Not diagnosing or accusing; just sayin'.

Regards,
Tom

laupsi

01-15-2013, 09:13 AM

In all honesty, the first paragraph and the second are incongruent. You be who you want to be, offer forgiveness to those who might not think deserve it, but need it. Be that person, that vision regardless of whether you feel completely satisfied that justice has been done or rights wronged. Forgiveness is not respect, trust or anything else. It is also not amnesty, thinking that no punishment is necesary.

If you want to be the forgiving type, then that is your struggle and ought not be tied to what Lance or anybody else does.

on another note, how 'bout them Ravens!

djg21

01-15-2013, 09:16 AM

The reports of his so-called confession are bothering me almost as much as his brazen doping and bullying conduct as detalied in the USADA Report, and his persisten unequivocal and persistent denials in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In a transparent effort to rehabilitate his "brand," he'll now throw his conspirators/colleagues under a bus?

As much as they all may deserve what's coming to them, the fact that Armstrong is so willing to sacrifice them in furtherance of his own personal interests and ambitions is despicable. IMO, Armstrong is a pyschopath. Given his documented dishonesty about his doping, I have a hard time believing that he was not the mastermind and impetus behind the US Postal doping regimen.

If he were truly contrite, he would take full responsibility and not ask for reinstatement or a shorter ban from competition. He should repay the London Times and SCA, and settle the qui tam by refunding a significant portion of the funding given to Tailwind by the Postal Service. He then should divest himself of all of his gains - ill-gotten - made from professional cycling and endorsements by donating it all to charity. He should get a job to support his family and and set an example for his kids.

I'm ready for Lance to go away now.

On edit: Armstrong is no different than other criminals that I've dealt with in my professional life. They are not remorseful for their criminal conduct; rather, they're sorry they got caught. Armstrong is desperate, and will say and do anything in an effort to manipulate and influence public opinion and rehabilitate himself.

rugbysecondrow

01-15-2013, 09:17 AM

on another note, how 'bout them Ravens!

Funny enough, I have had my own internal struggle, I dispise the Ravens but my 6 year old daughter has really started liking them. I am a Bears fan and I have tried cajoling her into that, but the Bears aren't on TV, Ravens are the talk of the town and school, and so she is a Ravens fan, despite my best efforts. I have had to come to grips with the idea that I would rather her be a Ravens fan AND a football fan than not a fan of either.

But you wont catch be wearing purple, unless my daughter makes me. :)

laupsi

01-15-2013, 09:25 AM

Funny enough, I have had my own internal struggle, I dispise the Ravens but my 6 year old daughter has really started liking them. I am a Bears fan and I have tried cajoling her into that, but the Bears aren't on TV, Ravens are the talk of the town and school, and so she is a Ravens fan, despite my best efforts. I have had to come to grips with the idea that I would rather her be a Ravens fan AND a football fan than not a fan of either.

But you wont catch be wearing purple, unless my daughter makes me. :)

Understood. As for your daughter I hope she goes to school next Monday full of glee and excitement and w/much to look forward to.

weiwentg

01-15-2013, 09:28 AM

. . . to convince you that he really means it when he confesses and apologizes--assuming that's what he actually does?

Well, nothing short of seppuku would actually convince me he means his apology. But there's a cancer in the sport. If he testifies against his enablers in USA Cycling and the UCI, I would consider him to have mostly atoned. Seriously. It's not just him, he had help.

BumbleBeeDave

01-15-2013, 09:36 AM

Well, nothing short of seppuku would actually convince me he means his apology. But there's a cancer in the sport. If he testifies against his enablers in USA Cycling and the UCI, I would consider him to have mostly atoned. Seriously. It's not just him, he had help.

Tough crowd . . .

BBD

jimcav

01-15-2013, 10:00 AM

but that is just me. I could have waited 15 yrs for his book about why he did it.

What I do hope is that besides the Oprah Armstrong/Livestrong PR effort he is actually talking to USADA etc and helping to prevent whatever SKY is doing etc.

Oh, and maybe he will follow Gerard to Russia.

MarleyMon

01-15-2013, 10:03 AM

x7 would have to knee-walk the Alpe d'Huez on Christmas Day clad only in a purple wristband inscribed DoneWrong before I would deign to even listen to one word, let alone believe him.

JAGI410

01-15-2013, 10:15 AM

Disclaimer: I don't care much about pro cycling.

That said, Eddy Merckx doped too, and only admitted to it after he got caught. Yet he's still a legend. Right? And yet he didn't inspire hundreds of cancer patients to fight against cancer. I think while many have a right to be disappointed by the fallen hero, he did a lot more than just ride a bike. He was a source of strength for many facing horrific battles.

His confession strikes a feeling in many that rivals the truth about Santa. When you think about it, it's not far off.

I've got no beef with Lance. Him coming clean after years of deception is a burden far bigger than any of us mere mortals will hopfelly ever have to face. I hope he can recover from this and go on to be a positive example again.

Elefantino

01-15-2013, 10:32 AM

Does TRUE repentance make a difference? What would he have to do to TRULY convince me that he is TRULY repentant--that he has truly seen the light and changed as a person? I believe it IS possible for someone to do that. but what do they have to do to truly show it? And what would Lance have to do to truly show it?

I like to think that I'm not so judgmental that I could never forgive. To carry the bitterness of a grudge my whole life? So if I am to live up to this vision of who I would like to be--who I thought I was--I need to figure out how I would answer this question and that is what I have been thinking about. I just wondered if others had considered the same question.

BBD
There's nothing he can do to truly convince me that he is truly repentant because he doesn't need to convince me. He needs to convince those he wronged.

Give away all his money? He'll make more. He's good at it. He'll write a book with Sally Jenkins, again.

tuxbailey

01-15-2013, 10:34 AM

I want my lousy $1 back for spending on that yellow rubber band :tongue in cheek:

Actually I am rather ambivalent about what he does now. I didn't start biking because of him, and I won't stop because bunch of pros cheated.

palincss

01-15-2013, 10:34 AM

well, nothing short of seppuku would actually convince me he means his apology.

+1

Uncle Jam's Army

01-15-2013, 10:34 AM

I guess forgiveness is a long way away for me right now, to the extent Lance cares. Not that I lose any sleep over Lance nor do I feel the need for Lance to do anything. I simply don't view Lance as a "good guy" and he is quite a ways from ever tilting the scales that way. I was one of the many who initially believed Lance achieved his victories clean, then went to simply not believing that his detractors proved he doped, to finally believing he did dope.

At all times prior to my "epiphany" regarding Lance's doping, I justified the vicious attacks against others Lance engaged in as the acts of someone who was simply defending themselves against false claims of others. Now those same attacks are simply the acts of a monster.

If Lance spends the rest of his life atoning to his victims for his acts, in ways that are far from the public eye and in ways that he could not possibly profit or benefit from, I would, of course, be willing to re-evaluate my opinion of Lance's character. That's a far ways away. Until then, he's just a jerk of the highest order, confession or not.

tuxbailey

01-15-2013, 10:36 AM

Funny enough, I have had my own internal struggle, I dispise the Ravens but my 6 year old daughter has really started liking them. I am a Bears fan and I have tried cajoling her into that, but the Bears aren't on TV, Ravens are the talk of the town and school, and so she is a Ravens fan, despite my best efforts. I have had to come to grips with the idea that I would rather her be a Ravens fan AND a football fan than not a fan of either.

But you wont catch be wearing purple, unless my daughter makes me. :)

I do want them to win since they are geographically my local team, specially after beating Denver. But I can't be a fan since I am a Redskins fan ever since I started watching football.

gavingould

01-15-2013, 10:37 AM

he doesn't owe me anything, but he and those who helped him cover it up for so long owe professional cycling (and by extension, the fans of it) more than an empty apology. i was never that much of a Lance fan to begin with because he always seemed so smug and arrogant to me. not a hater, but certainly not a lover.

in my eyes, the only reason he is admitting it now is because the evidence is too overwhelming and no one believes anything out of him anyway.

yes, the other guys doped too, but i can't think of anyone who profited so much, vehemently denied it the whole while and for years afterward, and ruined so many other reputations along the way.

i think for most cycling fans, there's nothing he can really do to get back much respect. he can get some measure of forgiveness if he rats out his enablers in USAC, USOC, and UCI...

while i'm thinking of it, not much point in having him pay back all the organizations if they're still crooked.

i DO think he did a lot for cancer awareness in this country though, and i respect that. in fact, my boss got a good amount of help from L-Strong during a bout with nut cancer.

Lewis Moon

01-15-2013, 10:38 AM

IMO, Armstrong is a pyschopath. I'm ready for Lance to go away now.

Armstrong is no different than other criminals that I've dealt with in my professional life. They are not remorseful for their criminal conduct; rather, they're sorry they got caught. Armstrong is desperate, and will say and do anything in an effort to manipulate and influence public opinion and rehabilitate himself.

I think this is a good summation of how I feel. I'll also add that, I too would like to see any malfeasance by the UCI and USA Cycling brought to light and corrected. With extreme prejudice.

Ignoring misconduct is enabling misconduct.

54ny77

01-15-2013, 10:40 AM

i'm seeing some of the headlines and stories this morning. wow. tidal wave of stuff, lance going scorched earth....all so he can get back into organized competitive triathlon?

:rolleyes:

with his resources, couldn't he instead just start his own unsanctioned event series?

great article here, should instead be titled, "a well-paid publicist's strategy on how to distance a kingpin from lance armstrong."

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/01/14/armstrong-benefactor-is-holding-his-breath/

fiamme red

01-15-2013, 10:47 AM

with his resources, couldn't he instead just start his own unsanctioned event series?http://lavamagazine.com/features/armstrong-to-detractors-its-their-drama-not-mine/#axzz2I403eF8R

LAVA: With that in mind, there�s been talk about a LIVESTRONG race series. Any details or game plan on that?

Armstrong: We have a rough business plan, but we�re not ready to make an announcement next week or next month. We�ve got good, experienced, passionate people who are involved, and we�ve got I think a lot of people willing to support events, people that want something else, whether it�s lower entry fees or a better experience or a better after-party or swag bag. Not to say existing series around are not good. But to pick up on some things would be great. There�s been thought that we could acquire some stand-alone, one-off events, events that could either be bought or partnered on. And then there�s the events we could create.

And these aren�t simply triathlons. They�re run the gamut: tri�s off-road tris, mountain bike races, gran fondos, marathons, trail runs� just a hodge-podge of endurance junkie porn.

oldpotatoe

01-15-2013, 10:49 AM

I think this is a good summation of how I feel. I'll also add that, I too would like to see any malfeasance by the UCI and USA Cycling brought to light and corrected. With extreme prejudice.

Ignoring misconduct is enabling misconduct.

Ya want him to be wacked?

http://www.zimbio.com/watch/3htwvqKRA8K/Apocalypse+Now/Harrison+Ford

Terminate Lance's Command...with extreme prejudice.

christian

01-15-2013, 10:49 AM

all so he can get back into organized competitive triathlon?I never really got triathlons, but after this, it sounds pretty awesome. I'm probably not going to go whole-hog just yet, but I'll start riding my bike in Speedos to try it out.

Wayne77

01-15-2013, 11:54 AM

I would REALLY like to see Lance dethrone Kristen Stewart for most awkward TV moment

Lance: "uh......what?"

Oprah: "The USADA report. Lance, I'm sure you have something to share with us. Here we are, on MY couch. The world is watching. What's your message? To your fans. To those who feel betrayed. To your ex-team mates?"

<silence>

Oprah: "There's a box of tissues right there if you need it Lance."

Lance: "I..uh..think there's been a misunderstanding Oprah"

Oprah: "what?"

Lance: "I'm not here to talk about that...........other stuff."

Oprah: "But you're here Lance...on MY couch....what DO you want to talk about then???"

Lance: "Well...you see...I've been working on something."

Oprah: "Oh no."

Lance: "I want to meet with the PEOPLE Oprah. I think if we schedule a time, maybe you could facilitate the questions, and I could sit down at a desk somewhere and just let people come ask me questions. About biking maybe, dating tips, what's the answer to life, cars, best Pizza in Austin, you know that sort of thing...the PEOPLE need to know the real Lance."

Oprah: "Can 'the people' ask you about the USADA report, and your alleged involvement in the doping scandal?"

Lance: "I don't want to talk about that........other stuff. But I do have some great start-up ideas you know. I'm even in discussion to market a new line of tv-dinners co-branded with Wolfgang Puck."

<silence>

Lance: "Here..I even brought a sample for you to try Oprah. This one is my Lasagna with Austin style potatoes and gravy on the side, complete with a nifty little power-up post ride treat on the side. 30 seconds and BAM! you've got a Lance approved meal."

<cut to commercial break>

mack

01-15-2013, 12:59 PM

Lance Armstrong doped.....ya think so, just like the rest of the bunch?
Yeah but he and his team of riders, doctors, soigneurs, trainers, managers, financiers, advisers and accountants....well they were simply so good at doping, they managed to pull it off for ten plus years and still win all the big events which put them under the microscope of scrutiny and go undetected.
I personally do not take a uber-strong stand against the doping at that level, however, the line is crossed where the fraud and deceit goes beyond the confines of the peloton.

To my main point....Should Lance make any confession, my thought is the confession will be thorough and in depth and he might blow the lid off this topic with accusations, we can all imagine and undoubtedly some that may be unimaginable.

I'll admit, professional cycling has taken a back seat for me now, or maybe it's my age that has me reminiscing, reviewing the late '70's and '80's, and no longer holding any excitement for the current coming season. I've had tepid interest in this saga (I think it's reached that level) and probably will cast my fuller attention to the time in cycling when this is all behind us.

Funny how my boys, who are young adults now, want to engage in this story probably due to the days when they were younger athletes I on several occasions showed them some tape of LA crushing the climbs in '99 trying to instill a fighting determination....before their big event....go figure that.
-mack

malcolm

01-15-2013, 03:38 PM

Armstrong is so inconsequential in my life and most of our lives that it's somewhat arrogant on our parts to even consider an apology. He did nothing to me that I'm aware of. I've been convinced he was a doper for years and still tuned in every year to watch the tour.

What I would like to see if there is any apology would be to the sport in general and as I've stated in the past the Andreaus, Emma and the handful of others he so publicly derided. More than an apology I would like to see him lay it all bare from start to finish including the money behind the scenes and the dirt with the regulatory bodies.

Z3c

01-15-2013, 04:09 PM

I am convinced:

He is a ruthless bastard who ruined lives to advance his own lot in life. He wasn't trying to find food for his family, he wasn't under hardship or anything else that might hint of some justification. Flying first class wasn't good enough for him. To make it worse, the coward hid behind Livestrong.

There is no excusing, no forgiving, no justification.

I hope the lawsuits drain him of every dime possible; won't happen but I can hope.

Lewis Moon

01-15-2013, 04:27 PM

Ya want him to be wacked?

http://www.zimbio.com/watch/3htwvqKRA8K/Apocalypse+Now/Harrison+Ford

Terminate Lance's Command...with extreme prejudice.

I hear Marty Sheen is looking for work...

bironi

01-15-2013, 04:32 PM

He sincerely offers complete cooperation with all anti-doping agencies with no strings attached.

He sincerely offers complete cooperation with all investigative agencies with no strings attached.

He promises to spend the rest of his life helping to repair the damage he has done to reputations and careers.

He promises to attend triathalons, but not as a contender, rather as a fundraiser for WADA.

He makes a short speech at the end of this years TDF apologizing for the one he made at his first retirement.

54ny77

01-15-2013, 04:37 PM

He announces that, yes, he's really a space alien.

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://yourhub.denverpost.com/rf/image_tinyres/YourHub/UGC/41/4110/4110__/4110____/4110/Attachments/2006/08/4110_24078_116379_92679_alienlance.jpg&sa=X&ei=Jtr1UIGPE-qw0AGfx4GoAQ&ved=0CAkQ8wc4TQ&usg=AFQjCNGvzbKYXwRBnXGhVswXEmWxtyevtg

Lewis Moon

01-15-2013, 04:44 PM

Lance Armstrong admits to using performance enhancing drugs to show remorse. Click for link: // (http://www.theonion.com/articles/lance-armstrong-admits-to-using-performanceenhanci,30912/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=standard-post:headline:default")

DukeHorn

01-15-2013, 05:28 PM

I'm more interested in seeing apologies from the fans who went after Lemond, Hamilton, Landis for tarnishing their golden boy.

Heck, I'd like to see Sally Jenkins issue a real mea culpa instead of her "I still believe in Lance" BS of an essay back in December. Maybe she should issue an apology to Lance's victims in the peloton......

csm

01-15-2013, 05:44 PM

Who's life did Lance ruin? Or lives?

malcolm

01-16-2013, 08:56 AM

Who's life did Lance ruin? Or lives?

I don't know that he ruined anyones, but it's hard to argue he didn't make the Andreaus, Emma Stone and many others considerably more trying and difficult. After having said that I'm begining to tire of all the ex pros who seem to lay all their doping issues at Armstrongs doorstep. I suspect they were lined up to participate in his doping program and he didn't twist many arms. Now that they are all caught it was all Armstrongs evil influence, like they had no role to play. They need to accept responsibility for their choices, they were grown men and made the decision to do what they did. Lance needs to do the same and also accept his role as facilitator.

rustylion

01-17-2013, 03:50 PM

What does Lance have to do?

1. Confess on the stand under oath in a WADA or USADA "tell-it-all" hearing.
2. Take the time and spend the money to personally apologize, face-to-face, to all those in and around the cycling industry who he brutalized on the way to protecting his reputation...and I mean each and every one of them.
3. Immediately settle all lawsuits of those who have financial claims against him
4. Never try to regain any of his jerseys and/or medals he has not been stripped of recently
5. Stop trying to spin his story so we love him again. Just suck it up and let us decide on our own.

IMHO.