Tire clearance with modern cf forks like Enve - limiting factor

[Wayne77]

Maybe this is another odd question...With short reach brakes on an Enve fork - what's the "first" limiting factor? The brake bridge hitting the top of the tire, the inside of the fork itself, etc?

Can medium reach brakes be run on an Enve? (ie if the brake bridge is the "first" limiting factor, would a different brake caliper on a normal fork buy a mm or two of clearance?)

FWIW I'll be running Chorus 11 on an upcoming custom build (but I also like those Velo Orange brakes which have more clearance, but I've only seen them on wide clearance forks like Wound Up or steel forks).

...I may still get a steel fork so I can run really big tires if needed, but for racing I might keep a fork like an Enve or F3 laying around and am wondering if that would still provide a compromise for tire clearance if I ran different calipers than the std Chorus short reach brakes.

Enjoy the weekend everyone...we got about 20" of snow yesterday, so I plan on putting some fat tires back on my 29er and towing my kids around the freshly plowed hardpack with a rope and a sled. Good times!

[vqdriver]

Hers an old thread where I tried this myself. That's a chorus skeleton d front brake on an edge fork. From the pic it looks like you'd rub the fork first by a smidge.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=81730&highlight=Tire+edge

[dave thompson]

I have an Enve 2.0 on one of my bikes that clears a 28MM tire with ease. Probably would be able to run 32MM judging by eyeball.

[Vientomas]

Did you measure the 28mm tire? I have the same fork and with a Schwalbe Durano that measures 28-29 mm (depending on where it is measured), there is very little additional clearance for a larger tire. While I have not tried it, I would be very surprised if a 32mm would fit.

[dave thompson]

Did you measure the 28mm tire? I have the same fork and with a Schwalbe Durano that measures 28-29 mm (depending on where it is measured), there is very little additional clearance for a larger tire. While I have not tried it, I would be very surprised if a 32mm would fit.

Better than measure, I have a wheelset with Velocity A23 (wide) rims on the bike and Schwalbe Ultremo ZX, 700x28 mounted which measures an actual 31MM across. There's 3MM on each side and about 5MM between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fork. The pic gives yoiu a general idea though the perspective is lousy.

[Wayne77]

You guys come through in spades as always. I had no idea you could get a 28 in an Enve. nice! My local shop has always been saying a 25 is the max.. (understanding that brands measure out differently of course)

I'll likely be running a HED C2 rim (or H Plus Son) and I imagine the wider rim could make the 28 mm tire just a hair wider, but also respectively a bit shorter right? So all should be good based on the helpful info here...

Thanks!!

[dave thompson]

You guys come through in spades as always. I had no idea you could get a 28 in an Enve. nice! My local ship has always been saying a 25 is the max.. (understanding that brands measure out differently of course)

I'll likely be running a HED C2 rim (or H Plus Son) and I imagine the wider rim could make the 28 mm tire just a hair wider, but also respectively a bit shorter right? So all should be good based on the helpful info here...

Thanks!!

I contacted ENVE directly be as I wanted to be able to use 28MM tires on a bike I was having built. Here is their reply to me:

You can easily fit any 28c tire I have ever seen in our road 1.0 or 2.0 forks.

JAKE PANTONE | MARKETING & SPONSORSHIP

Tel: 801-476-3363 x103 | 877-358-2869
Address: 690 W.1100 S. | Ogden,UT 84404

WWW.ENVE.COM

[happycampyer]

Note that the Chorus brake (or any Campagnolo brake) will limit the clearance on the Enve fork. In order to clear a 28mm tire like a Roll-y Polly, I need to switch the caliper to a Shimano caliper (the horror). A medium reach brake will not work on an Enve fork. Also, the Enve fork has more clearance than the F3.

[Vientomas]

Better than measure, I have a wheelset with Velocity A23 (wide) rims on the bike and Schwalbe Ultremo ZX, 700x28 mounted which measures an actual 31MM across. There's 3MM on each side and about 5MM between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fork. The pic gives yoiu a general idea though the perspective is lousy.

Thanks for the image and the info. How do you like the ZX's? Puncture resistance?

[mistermo]

Note that the Chorus brake (or any Campagnolo brake) will limit the clearance on the Enve fork. In order to clear a 28mm tire like a Roll-y Polly, I need to switch the caliper to a Shimano caliper (the horror). A medium reach brake will not work on an Enve fork. Also, the Enve fork has more clearance than the F3.

Word. A Shimano DA 78XX series brake with Campy levers is sublime. Don't get the 79XX series because the cable ratio is different. Coupling a Shimano brake with a Campy lever allows you to use two quick releases: one at the brake lever, the other at the brake. Voila!

I've got ZX 25c's on a C2 and have had no issues.

[dave thompson]

Thanks for the image and the info. How do you like the ZX's? Puncture resistance?

I like them a lot. Roll nice, feel good and so far no punctures.

[AngryScientist]

just wanted to say this was a very informative thread. good stuff to know.

thanks to some great forum members for sharing the real world information. :hello:

[happycampyer]

Word. A Shimano DA 78XX series brake with Campy levers is sublime. Don't get the 79XX series because the cable ratio is different. Coupling a Shimano brake with a Campy lever allows you to use two quick releases: one at the brake lever, the other at the brake. Voila!

I've got ZX 25c's on a C2 and have had no issues.That's right—the dual releases are very handy for wider tires. I actually use an Ultegra caliper in the ice grey color since it doesn't draw as much attention to itself and blends nicely with carbon components.

[Wayne77]

Note that the Chorus brake (or any Campagnolo brake) will limit the clearance on the Enve fork. In order to clear a 28mm tire like a Roll-y Polly, I need to switch the caliper to a Shimano caliper (the horror). A medium reach brake will not work on an Enve fork. Also, the Enve fork has more clearance than the F3.

Thanks for the heads up. What about a SRAM Force or Red brake?

[PacNW2Ford]

With a Michelin Pro Optimum 25 (25 mm height on a TB-14 rim), Chorus 11 brake, Enve 2.0 fork, there is about 3mm clearance from top of tire to bottom of brake arch.

[one60]

Not itchin for a fight but i have a seven 5e fork with a chorus brake. Both the brake & fork clear a 28c schwalbe ultremo mounted on a std width kinlin xr200 rim with plenty of room. I dont have a photo handy but pictures are on flickr under one60seattle, if you want to look

[happycampyer]

The Seven fork has considerably more clearance than either the Enve or Serotta forks. I have one bike with an Enve fork and a Super Record caliper (which has the same amount of clearance as Chorus), and a Roll-y Pol-y tire on a Nueutron Ultra wheel will barely clear the caliper and a 27mm FMB Paris-Roubaix will not even turn (the tire makes firm contact with the underside of the caliper). On another bike, I have an Enve fork with an Ultegra caliper and the FMB wheel spins freely. The forks have the same internal span. Campagnolo brakes just happen to sit a few mm lower than Shimano brakes, and that makes a difference when one gets close to the limit of fork clearance.

To the OP, if the bike hasn't been built yet, you should makes sure that the builder takes into account the clearance in the back, particularly if you will be using a clamp-on front derailleur. I have found that if the chainstays are not long enough, a Roll-y Pol-y can come in contact with, or just barely clear, the front derailleur clamp. If the bike is already built, it is something to check as well before you start having forks made.

For ultimate clearance, the Seven road fork is the best of the three (Seven, Enve and Serotta). The underside of Seven's forks is sort of squared off, which allows for more clearance (I have the Seven touring fork on a Hampsten Strada Bianca, and it clears a 33mm tire with ease, but of course the touring fork is designed for medium reach brakes).

[mistermo]

Not itchin for a fight but i have a seven 5e fork with a chorus brake. Both the brake & fork clear a 28c schwalbe ultremo mounted on a std width kinlin xr200 rim with plenty of room. I dont have a photo handy but pictures are on flickr under one60seattle, if you want to look

Here's your photo. That's an Ultremo 28?

[Pete Mckeon]

THanks for all the information. I needed to run something bigger than 25mm for some of the greenways, PETE

[happycampyer]

Since it has been a while, I decided to go back and check the clearance of various tire and brake caliper combinations with an Enve fork. The Roll-y Pol-y actually can spin, but the clearance is very tight. The R-P is technically a 28mm tire. A 27mm FMB Paris-Roubaix (don't know the exact dimensions, but it is admittedly plump) jams against the underside of the Campagnolo caliper, but has adequate clearance with the Shimano caliper. To Wayne77's question, I have never tried a SRAM caliper, so I can't say how they compare. Here are the photos:

Enve 2.0 + Campagnolo + Dugast 25mm Competition CX:

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-HNfCrVt/0/X2/i-HNfCrVt-X2.jpg

Enve 2.0 + Campagnolo + Roll-y Pol-y:

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-MdfxMfV/0/X2/i-MdfxMfV-X2.jpg

Enve 2.0 + Campagnolo + FMB 27mm Paris-Roubaix:

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-2fZGDNN/0/X2/i-2fZGDNN-X2.jpghttp://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-qsGKnKH/0/X2/i-qsGKnKH-X2.jpg

Enve 2.0 + Shimano + Roll-y Pol-y:

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-qbCX8sL/0/X2/i-qbCX8sL-X2.jpg

Enve 2.0 + Shimano + FMB 27mm Paris-Roubaix:

http://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-dbX9L2q/0/X2/i-dbX9L2q-X2.jpghttp://threadgill.smugmug.com/photos/i-49mGV3f/0/X2/i-49mGV3f-X2.jpg

[Wayne77]

Thanks for posting all the pics - a great reference post for Enve & tire clearances...

[one60]

Here's your photo. That's an Ultremo 28?

Yes, ultremo zx in 28c. But I do see from your photos why you suggested there might be a clearance issue with campy brakes.

[jpw]

This is the very definition of a good Paceline thread. So very informative.

[jpw]

Better than measure, I have a wheelset with Velocity A23 (wide) rims on the bike and Schwalbe Ultremo ZX, 700x28 mounted which measures an actual 31MM across. There's 3MM on each side and about 5MM between the top of the tire and the bottom of the fork. The pic gives yoiu a general idea though the perspective is lousy.

i'm wondering what this frame is, how the rear wheel fits for clearance, and the brake type and model?