DA 9000, Campy Compatibility, anyone?

[AngryScientist]

This is exciting stuff to me.

Few reports are in that the spacing on new DA 9000 cassettes is very, very similar to campy-11. Bike rumor thinks it works. looks good in the picture...

what this could mean is that with 11-speed, campy or shimano wheels will work on either/or equipped bikes. this could be golden.

anyone running DA 9000 already who could give this a real world test?? if anyone wants to loan me an 11 speed shimano wheel, i'll test the theory!

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/12/12/interchange-shimano-campy-11-speed-cassettes-save-your-wheels/

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/shimano-campagnolo-11-speed-cassettes-comparison-600x291.jpg

[christian]

The guy who did the comparison is a Salonista, and I think Justin B from Signature confirmed it worked fine. And his definition of fine is orders of magnitude more specific than mine.

Do a search ATH and you'll find some info.

[christian]

FWIW, the spacing is 3.80mm on one and 3.85mm on the other.

0.05mm across 11 cogs would be .55mm. Seems like it should work, if not as an every day thing, at least for neutral support.

[oldpotatoe]

This is exciting stuff to me.

Few reports are in that the spacing on new DA 9000 cassettes is very, very similar to campy-11. Bike rumor thinks it works. looks good in the picture...

what this could mean is that with 11-speed, campy or shimano wheels will work on either/or equipped bikes. this could be golden.

anyone running DA 9000 already who could give this a real world test?? if anyone wants to loan me an 11 speed shimano wheel, i'll test the theory!

http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/12/12/interchange-shimano-campy-11-speed-cassettes-save-your-wheels/

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/shimano-campagnolo-11-speed-cassettes-comparison-600x291.jpg

Wayne Stetina, the US guru for shimano gear development said he swapped a Record EPS 11s wheel into his DA mechanical when he wanted to go for a ride(yep, he has a Campag equipped bike for comparison..I'll bet the guys at Campagnolo have DA and .....horrors, sram equipment to test also) and had a flat on the DA wheel..he said it worked flawlessly.

Only so much room for 11s and 130mm...gotta be pretty close.

I'm building a DA 9000 wheelset/bike next week, I'll slap onto my Demo Moots to see.

[ultraman6970]

Shimano hubs are wider between the cones (131 ish mm)... when i read they came with 11 i thought the same thing than what this guys are saying, they needed to force the 11 cog inside and that will bring them really close to what campagnolo did.

As usual shimano to be different they just wider the freehub body 1 or 2 mm to get the extra cog in there and they did not take the difference from the non driver side to keep the 130 mm and now they use 132 mm doing round numbers.

IMO from the picture i dont see why it wont work, the differences are just 10s of mm and the chain wont notice at all such small differences.

I was shimano what I would have done is just straight forward to cluster the last 3 cogs in one piece and use a longer neck lockring so all the old wheels could transition to 11 w/o any problem. They had room for 11 in their 10 spacing stuff for a while, IMO they created a problem were there was none engineering a new hub and a longer freehub body, waste of time imo. The thing is being different and with 11 the stuff is just too close to try to be different.

[oldpotatoe]

Shimano hubs are wider between the cones (131 ish mm)... when i read they came with 11 i thought the same thing than what this guys are saying, they needed to force the 11 cog inside and that will bring them really close to what campagnolo did.

As usual shimano to be different they just wider the freehub body 1 or 2 mm to get the extra cog in there and they did not take the difference from the non driver side to keep the 130 mm and now they use 132 mm doing round numbers.

IMO from the picture i dont see why it wont work, the differences are just 10s of mm and the chain wont notice at all such small differences.

I was shimano what I would have done is just straight forward to cluster the last 3 cogs in one piece and use a longer neck lockring so all the old wheels could transition to 11 w/o any problem. They had room for 11 in their 10 spacing stuff for a while, IMO they created a problem were there was none engineering a new hub and a longer freehub body, waste of time imo. The thing is being different and with 11 the stuff is just too close to try to be different.

What they did on 9000 rear hub is keep 130mm and move the RH flange inboard about 2mm..ala Campagnolo.

[christian]

I'll bet the guys at Campagnolo have DA and .....horrors, sram equipment to test also) and had a flat on the DA wheel..he said it worked flawlessly.
"Hi, Stan? It's Wayne, over at Shimano. We snapped another lever. Can you send us a set of 2012 Red replacements? Awesome. Thanks man."

"Hi Stan? It's Angelo, calling from Carlsbad. How are things? Tutto bene? Excellent. Say, we snapped another lever... Ah, excellente. Grazie mille!"

[Dave]

I wish that someone with calipers or a micrometer would measure the Shimano cogs and spacers to get the exact cog spacing.

Right now, you see people quoting 3.85mm as Campy spacing, when it's really 3.8mm - a combination of 1.6mm cogs and 2.2mm spacers, although there is one 2.3mm spacer in there.

Shimano 10 has the same 1.6mm cog thickness.

[AngryScientist]

The guy who did the comparison is a Salonista, and I think Justin B from Signature confirmed it worked fine. And his definition of fine is orders of magnitude more specific than mine.

Do a search ATH and you'll find some info.

ha, you're right, and i actually posted in the thread over there. man, i'm losing it.

[oldpotatoe]

I wish that someone with calipers or a micrometer would measure the Shimano cogs and spacers to get the exact cog spacing.

Right now, you see people quoting 3.85mm as Campy spacing, when it's really 3.8mm - a combination of 1.6mm cogs and 2.2mm spacers, although there is one 2.3mm spacer in there.

Shimano 10 has the same 1.6mm cog thickness.

I'll do that for you.

Off today-do it domani-

[thirdgenbird]

I can't remember where, but I saw another report of someone mixing the two with success. Whatever the difference is, it must be fairly small.

If I were sram, I would go to 11 using spacing square between shimano and campy. It would likely result in a system that shifts the same using any 11spd cassette. Using their MTB 11spd "standard" on a road group could push their customers away. I'm not sure they have a faithful enough following to stand as the odd man out. I know a number of people that tried sram only because they could share wheels with shimano. That option may become campy.

[oldpotatoe]

I wish that someone with calipers or a micrometer would measure the Shimano cogs and spacers to get the exact cog spacing.

Right now, you see people quoting 3.85mm as Campy spacing, when it's really 3.8mm - a combination of 1.6mm cogs and 2.2mm spacers, although there is one 2.3mm spacer in there.

Shimano 10 has the same 1.6mm cog thickness.

Cogs are 1.56 MM in width, spacers are 2.18mm in width. DA 9000.

[thirdgenbird]

3.8 vs 3.74 and campy has one 3.9mm shift?

This would lead me to believe campy shifts across the shimano cassette better than shimano across the campy.

[ultraman6970]

For the triple users and guys that realy cant climb the stairs, what about the 42T cog in the 11 sram mtb group?? That cassette is just insane.

They will move to 11 soon in the road, the funny thing is that I totally see in the road a 46T single chainring crankset matched to a 10-whatever cog. from them now. Lighter than anything in the market this way.

I even see a jtek to use that long cage XXI sram RD with campagnolo 11.

And next year sram electronic or something.

[oldpotatoe]

For the triple users and guys that realy cant climb the stairs, what about the 42T cog in the 11 sram mtb group?? That cassette is just insane.

They will move to 11 soon in the road, the funny thing is that I totally see in the road a 46T single chainring crankset matched to a 10-whatever cog. from them now. Lighter than anything in the market this way.

I even see a jtek to use that long cage XXI sram RD with campagnolo 11.

And next year sram electronic or something.

Insane is a good word. In spite of 11s, BIG spacing between the cogs in lower gears. Well, since they really can't figure out Fders, I guess the best thing to do is eliminate it. OR just use the Athena long cage Rear der available in 2013 with Campagnolo shifters...and a triple.

46 and 10t cog(that'll last a long time)...'bout same highest ratio as 50/11 but again...to make for low gears...gonna be some big gaps.