Semi Off-Topic: Tap and Die Set for home shop

[PaulE]

I am looking for recommendattions for s reasonably priced tap and die set for home shop use, including metric and SAE coarse and fine threads. My guess is that the set would mostly be used for cleaning up threads that got buggered up (hopefully only by someone other than me but who knows) but would also occassionally be used to cut new threads. Ideally the metric taps and dies would include the sizes commonly used on a bike, excluding bottom brackets and threaded fork steerers of course.

Price-wise I would like to stay under $100 if possible. I see some dirt cheap sets on eBay and at Harbor Freight, a Neiko set on eBay for about $70, some higher priced sets from Irwin-Hansen sets and then Snap On or Matco which are more than i want to spend.

So, as always, thanks in advance to this knowledgeable group for any recommendations on what to get or to avoid!

[54ny77]

the irwin's from home depot are pretty good. i've used mine plenty the past couple years without too much of a hiccup. 60-70 bucks or so covers most typical sizes.

[martinrjensen]

I have a nice Sears Craftsman set. I think it would be close to your price range. They make a lot of different bundles so you might find what you need. The quality is definately there. I also have a very cheap Harbor Freight set that would probably work if you are only cleaning up threads or maybe cutting soft metals like Aluminum. The Craftsman would definately fill the bill without being too expensive. I (personally) would buy a set off of eBay if it was me. Also check out Grizzly tools. I would count them as a step above Harbor Frieght. I bought a lathe from Grizzly and other tools and am quite happy. I have bought from Harbor freight also but again it was a drop compared to Grizzly. Never heard of Neiko I am looking for recommendattions for s reasonably priced tap and die set for home shop use, including metric and SAE coarse and fine threads. My guess is that the set would mostly be used for cleaning up threads that got buggered up (hopefully only by someone other than me but who knows) but would also occassionally be used to cut new threads. Ideally the metric taps and dies would include the sizes commonly used on a bike, excluding bottom brackets and threaded fork steerers of course.

Price-wise I would like to stay under $100 if possible. I see some dirt cheap sets on eBay and at Harbor Freight, a Neiko set on eBay for about $70, some higher priced sets from Irwin-Hansen sets and then Snap On or Matco which are more than i want to spend.

So, as always, thanks in advance to this knowledgeable group for any recommendations on what to get or to avoid!

[lhuerta]

+1 on the Craftsman stuff....top quality, no questions asked lifetime guarantee and fair price.

[dave thompson]

WRT to tools; buy the very best that you can afford. If you can't afford it, wait until you can. There's nothing worse than cheap tools buggering a job. Quality tools will pay for themselves fairly quickly.

Try looking on Craigslist for what you would consider a good brand.

[carpediemracing]

If you know what you want then I'd go to a local hardware store and get Century taps and dies. You can buy exactly what you want because they're sold individually and you won't have a bunch of them on hand needlessly. I believe they're made in the US and they are very good quality pieces, at least for my amateur purposes. I worked in such a store for about 4 years and I was shocked at the low prices of the tools. I bought some individual ones to chase threads on door knobs and such.

Before I knew that I bought a set from somewhere, maybe Eastwood since I used to buy a lot of stuff to work on my car from there. I want to say the kit was about $70 but when I looked quickly their least expensive one is $100. I used some of the larger taps to clean out threads on my aforementioned car.

I'm about to break open the kit to chase the threads on my recently repainted frame. The downtube barrel adjuster threads got painted so I need to chase those. I think the waterbottle mounts too.

[Peter P.]

I know you want a full set of both SAE and metric but I'm under the impression you're going to use it primarily for bike related work.

If you truly need the full set, choose Sears as already recommended. If you want to go upscale, shop on-line at mcmaster-carr.com. Great reputation; quality tools.

If you can live with just the bike related taps, try Park Tool. That's where I bought my taps and they'll have everything you need for the bike. Purchasing this way will save a lot of money.

[AngryScientist]

i have a craftsman set, it works well the limited number of times i had to use it. craftsman stuff has a reputation and consistency of being a pretty well made product, not top-of-the-line, but good quality for the home mechanic. the lifetime warranty makes it an easy decision for me.

stuff that i am likely to use a LOT, i generally have sprung for snap on, matco, S-K, etc. general use hand tools, screw drivers, ratchet wrenches, allen keys, etc.

the stuff i use much more occasionally, craftsman is more than good enough for those tasks.

[rice rocket]

Barely any Craftsman is made in the USA anymore, just FYI. Just some if their pro stuff still is.

I have some Harbor Freight set from 10 years ago. I've honestly used it maybe 6 times? I don't fabricate much, and I use tap oil, so nothing really breaks on me. They're really effin' sharp, if you break one, you're doing it wrong.

[shovelhd]

This is the kind of stuff I pick up at tag/estate sales. Last year I got a nice Craftsman set, probably 50 pieces, for $20. If you're buying new, I second Craftsman.

[11.4]

If for cycling, as pointed out above, you only need three or four sizes.

Note that you really don't need dies on a bike -- almost every use of threads on a bike involves a basic replaceable bolt, usually an allen bolt, and a threaded hole. Dies require a separate and usually more expensive handle and generally run more. Start with taps and see what you need.

In that regard, note that taps come in several different types. First, of course, you can get basic carbon, then graduate up to titanium nitride. Don't worry about high speed steel -- they aren't as good as any good tool steel unless you're working on automation at high speed with a lot of heat. For nice cuts on critical pieces of metal (like bike frames) I tend to go with a good brand of titanium nitride taps from an industrial supply. They are much much better than any of the consumer/prosumer stuff. And you'll need a T-handle tap wrench to fit -- Starrett are always nice of course but plenty of good ones out there.

In addition, taps come in different styles. There are bottom taps, for instance, which have a flat bottom and a thread that goes right to the bottom. These, as the name indicates, are for tapping holes that are blind (don't penetrate through the bottom of whatever was drilled and tapped) and you want the tapping to go right to the bottom. Through taps are just the opposite, with a gentle taper at the end to help them go through smoothly where you can run them all the way through. Through taps are what almost everything on a bike needs (water bottle bosses, seat lug clamps, etc.). Go online to MSC or google any industrial supply company and browse. Remember that taps gone wrong are one of the most problematic things you can have on a bike (or any piece of metal for that matter). A good tap is worth the extra two bucks.

[LesMiner]

Not all taps are not created equal, even from the same manufacturer. Depending on how much you spend, the odds are better quality at a higher price. I have used 2, 3, and 4 flute types in English screw sizes 6, 8, 10 and 12. I have also used a spiral type as well. By their nature, taps are made from a hard brittle material. If you are cutting new threads be sure to get the initial hole right. Use a thread cutting oil. They are easy to break off right at the opening of the hole being tapped. Some might break with only a few uses while another may last significantly longer. I have threaded many holes in mild steel, sheet metal and cast iron.

Chasing threads has its own dangers. If a hole has been cross threaded hopefully it is only a few threads deep. One must be careful not to introduce an entirely new thread path. Otherwise you will probably have to drill it out to next larger size and re-thread it. If you are cleaning out excess paint or other material, you could use a thread cleaning screw. Some manufacturers use them to assemble painted metal parts. Use them a couple of times then throw them out.

[alancw3]

like 30 years ago i bought a tap and die set at the local true value hardware store. have used it many times. both ase and metric. not saying the taps and dies are the best quality but hey they have always worked. i guess if i had to do it all over again and money was no object i would buy a craftsman set. i don't know if their quality has suffered in recent years with all that is going on with sears.

[PaulE]

Lots of good info, thanks for all the suggestions and advice! I have gotten myself into and out of trouble in the past when I had access to a tap and die set! The tap and die set would be for general household projects, not just for a bike frame. I had a frame repainted about 5 years ago, but don't see that on the horizon anytime again soon. There have been times in the past when just having a tap and die set at home would have been very handy and I ended up buying the individual tap or die that I needed at the time. I'll take a look at Craftsman and the other suggestions.

[staggerwing]

Good replies thus far.

For general use, just get a Craftsman set, and add other specialty taps, as needed.

For through holes, I'm quite partial to spiral point taps (AKA gun taps). It seems if I order from McMaster.com, they source these in the US made Greenlee brand. Good stuff. Traditional hand taps should be advanced 1/2 turn, then backed off 1/4 turn, to break the chip, then proceed another 1/2, and so on. A gun tap can be run through in one motion, with the thread chip being pushed off of the front cutting edge of the tap.

And, whatever you end up with, buy a solid tap bar stick, like LPS Tapmatic Edge. Before cutting, load the tap up with lube (just spiral it in), and proceed. Dry, clean, and very effective. Never tap dry, even if just cleaning up a thread.

[Dredd]

If you are looking at taps Enco tends to have the cheapest prices. if you are going to use on alu, craftman are fine. If you are going to tap anything else I prefer HSS(high steel steel). Unless you need a set of metric for around the house I would buy individual taps.

[Don49]

Bumping this thread because my question is much the same as the OP.

One of the dropout adjusting screws on my touring bike is really tight, beyond being hand adjustable. I swapped screws and confirmed it's the frame that needs the threads chased. So I figured I need a metric thread gauge, tap wrench, and a 3mm x 0.5 tap. Pricing that out individually comes to around $35, but tap & die sets run $30 -$100 that include those pieces and a lot more.

So that's my dilemma, should I just get the US made 3mm tap, wrench, and gauge or a full set like these?

Harbor Freight: SAE & Metric Tap and Die Set 60 Pc, $32 on sale
http://www.harborfreight.com/60-piece-sae-metric-tap-and-die-set-35407.html

Craftsman: 75-piece Combination Tap & Die Carbon Steel Set, $100 on sale
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-75-piece-combination-tap-die-carbon-steel/p-00952377000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

I looked at both sets and everything is Chinese, no real differences that I see.
HF has a lifetime warranty.
Craftsman isn't warrantied at all.

I don't want to own junk tools, which I'm concerned the HF and Craftsman sets are, but the price is certainly attractive compared to just buying one tap. Any recommendations.

[Louis]

When was the last time you felt like you needed a tap or die?

If it was a long, long time ago or never, I'd get the minimum to do the current job. (and try to make it "Made in USA")

[unterhausen]

I never buy sets. A good tap is much better than a crappy tap. I just get them from McMaster Carr as I need them. I'm sure there are better taps, but the standard taps that McMaster sells are much better than what you get from hardware stores. It just isn't worth wasting the money on a full set.

[staggerwing]

For Don49:

Go to the following McMaster link and click on 3 x 0.5 under thread:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-metric-taps/=u28fb6
and buy the 1/4" hex drive tap for $8. If you know what you are doing, you can put it in a cordless driver, on low. However, since you are simply chasing an already cut thread, it would be safer to just use it in a hand screwdriver handle. Likely, your original thread form is tight due to some internal corrosion. A 3mm tap is small, and rather easy to break. Proceed carefully and use a dab of grease on the tap. It won't make much difference as to type.

If you need any hardware, metric screws, bolts, p-clamps, or the like, McMaster is a good place to find them. Yeah, they often come in 50 and 100 piece quantities, but for only a few dollars. Just buy the longer lengths, and cut to length as needed.

They are a extremely reliable industrial supply house, with very reasonable shipping. In most cases, there is no reason to pay for expedited shipping. Just pay for standard, and if your order is in by 5-6PM EST, don't be surprised if it shows up at your door within 24 hours.

[Louis]

If you need any hardware, metric screws, bolts, p-clamps, or the like, McMaster is a good place to find them. Yeah, they often come in 50 and 100 piece quantities, but for only a few dollars. Just buy the longer lengths, and cut to length as needed.

They are a extremely reliable industrial supply house, with very reasonable shipping. In most cases, there is no reason to pay for expedited shipping. Just pay for standard, and if your order is in by 5-6PM EST, don't be surprised if it shows up at your door within 24 hours.

McM-Carr is awesome, and have nearly anything you could ever want. If I were to be stranded on a deserted island my first choice for reading material would be their catalog. It's also has tons of useful information about the stuff they offer.

[dnades]

+1 for McMaster-Carr. I can order something at 4pm on Tuesday and I'll have it the next morning. Only in Brooklyn(they are in Jersey somewhere) but still that is really quick. Awesome shipping department. Plus they usually have tutorials on the stuff they sell which I find very helpful when ordering unfamiliar things.

[HenryA]

I never buy sets. A good tap is much better than a crappy tap. I just get them from McMaster Carr as I need them. I'm sure there are better taps, but the standard taps that McMaster sells are much better than what you get from hardware stores. It just isn't worth wasting the money on a full set.

^^^^ X1000 ^^^^

The difference in cheap taps and dies and good stuff is huge. You're just throwing your money away on cheap tools. Much more so with a tool that actually cuts metal. Its not like a cheap wrench that is not fun to use but still turns the bolt. You'd be better off without cheap taps and dies, cause the holes and threads they cut will be super crappy.

[Louis]

You're just throwing your money away on cheap tools.

I've felt dirty doing it, but to date I have purchased two different "Made in China" breaker bars from Harbor Freight and so far so good with both of them.

(Actually, one of them has seen no use, because I bought it to use as a lug-wrench for the Alfa, but the quality was fine and I'm happy with it. The other one has seen somewhat heavy use over at least five years and is fine.)

[bart998]

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00952377000P

[staggerwing]

http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00952377000P

OK for very casual use, but not a great set. Those are labelled as carbon steel.

Better sets are made from high speed steel, generally abbreviated as HSS. Higher up the food chain are coated (TiN and the like) taps, but unless you are in a full on production setting or tapping some very tough materials, I wouldn't bother. If ordering from McMaster, they will likely send Greenlee label, which are always nicely made.

If an open hole, select a "gun" or "through" tap. These push the cutting ahead of the tap and out the open side. No need to back off to break the chip, just plunge ahead in a smooth continuous motion, which makes for a good threadform. If a closed hole, select a "plug" or if you need to get the threadform all the way to the bottom, a "bottoming" tap. These you need to advance 1/2-1 turn, then back off 1/4-1/2 turn to break the chip. Always use some cutting oil or bar lube when tapping.

[bfd]

I am looking for recommendattions for s reasonably priced tap and die set for home shop use, including metric and SAE coarse and fine threads. My guess is that the set would mostly be used for cleaning up threads that got buggered up (hopefully only by someone other than me but who knows) but would also occassionally be used to cut new threads. Ideally the metric taps and dies would include the sizes commonly used on a bike, excluding bottom brackets and threaded fork steerers of course.

Price-wise I would like to stay under $100 if possible. I see some dirt cheap sets on eBay and at Harbor Freight, a Neiko set on eBay for about $70, some higher priced sets from Irwin-Hansen sets and then Snap On or Matco which are more than i want to spend.

So, as always, thanks in advance to this knowledgeable group for any recommendations on what to get or to avoid!

Another option is this 41-piece set, made in the USA, that ranges from 3mm to 12mm for $135:

http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/TapDieSet/26317.html

Harry Epstein also sells a 1/4" to 3/4" set for the same price. They also have larger sets that cost in the $300 range and a number of handles too:

http://store.harryepstein.com/search?q=tap+and+die

Harry Epstein is a great source for overstocked and discontinued "made in the USA" tools. Good Luck! :banana::eek::butt::cool:

[Don49]

Bumping this thread because my question is much the same as the OP.Thanks guys, for all the thoughtful replies. I ended up doing as suggested and got a US made 3mm tap from a local specialty hardware store and cleaned up the thread on my dropout adjuster.

As Louis said "When was the last time you felt like you needed a tap or die?", and the answer is never until now. I did need to chase threads on a crankarm but the LBS did that for me with his Park Tool tap.
So no, I don't need a cheap tap & die set to take up space.

Regarding Harbor Freight tools, I do have their 5 drawer roller chest for all my bike tools and supplies. It was a struggle to assembly because the holes wouldn't align, but once together it does the job and was cheap on sale. Also have their 2 ton engine hoist to lift an aircraft engine, and it works well enough for occasional use.

Regarding HF vs Craftsman tap & die sets, I did look at both and decided not to own either. HF looked to be of equal or higher quality for 1/3 the price and has a lifetime warranty. Craftsman doesn't warranty their taps & dies at all.

And thanks for the link to harryepstein.com, didn't know about them.

[fiataccompli]

I'll offer the unpopular opinion that there are some tools (or uses thereof) for which Harbor Freight quality is OK. By that I mean I usually consider how often over a period of time I will use it, how complicated the tool is (ie, how much does quality matter for the specific tool), & cost. I've been a believer in owning the right tool for the job doing home, car & bicycle repairs for 20+ years and as such I have ended up with a wide spectrum of incredibly high end tools alongside some remarkably cheap Harbor Freight tools and for the most part I've purchased wisely. The quality & function of the tap holder (or die holder) is usually where the quality comes into play on this particular subject for most hobbiest/infrequent users.

[Don49]

The quality & function of the tap holder (or die holder) is usually where the quality comes into play on this particular subject for most hobbiest/infrequent users.I totally agree with you about picking the right tool for the job, like Louis's use of the HF breaker bar as being good enough. But with cutting tools like taps, I would think the quality of the tap or die would be more important to a good outcome than the quality of the tap holder. I'm interested in hearing more if you care to. I guess most of us are tool junkies.

[HenryA]

I've felt dirty doing it, but to date I have purchased two different "Made in China" breaker bars from Harbor Freight and so far so good with both of them.

(Actually, one of them has seen no use, because I bought it to use as a lug-wrench for the Alfa, but the quality was fine and I'm happy with it. The other one has seen somewhat heavy use over at least five years and is fine.)

And that one of about two things you can buy at that place that might actually function correctly. The other one is a big rock.

[Don49]

And that one of about two things you can buy at that place that might actually function correctly. The other one is a big rock.Not true! I found some wheel chocks there that are darn nice. :)

[Louis]

I've bought quite a few Made in USA things there too. HF is not only Chinese stuff.

[PaulE]

I ended up buying a lightly used Snap-On tap and die set in metric and SAE that I found on Craigslist. I forget what I paid, more than a Harbor Freight set but a lot less than the Snap-On set's MSRP. It has come in handy a few times on miscellaneous repairs and projects, none of them bike related so far!

[fiataccompli]

Working on old cars, you have to be versed in tap & die...sometimes in confined space. Stuff that bikes present are relatively easy and usually an easy metal to work with. I think I started with a cheap set and over the years have augmented it with single tap/die purchases and at some point some high end hand-me-down holder/carriers. ..which is what I mentioned up thread. Today I took the day off to do some home repairs and digging for tools I found this as an example of perhaps a bit higher quality/less likely to slip holder as I probably would not expect in a harbor freight kit. large fine threaded metric (a favorite of Italian engineers, apparently) is also something I wouldn't expect.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/10/10/fa3c9a4cd74d30867ca392c0f7d98aad.jpg

[staggerwing]

OK, if you want to keep your eyes out for tap handles worth coveting, put Starrett models 174, 91A and 91B, on the list.

Of course, most things Starrett are worth having, or admiring, particularly the older bits, if you play with metal on a regular basis.

[Don49]

Good to know about the Starrett. I just found a brand new Starrett 93B in my tool box, never knew I had it. Definitely a real tool compared to the HF and other cheap ones.