Armstrong should have stopped at 5

[cinelli]

I suspect Armstrong would be a lot more "accepted"
in the Tour organization if he had stopped at 5 wins.
With 6, he rubbed the Tour's nose in it, with 7 he
made the Tour look like a joke.

If Lance had stopped at 5, he could simply be "on
par" with Merckx, Indurain, Hinault and Anquetil
and ridden off into the sunset. The Tour would
be happy and still searching for the next great
French hope......

[loctite]

Lance is WAY to arogant to ever "stop" or "quit". But i agree with you. Oh well at least we will have a tour worth watching this year!

[Argos]

I'm not into the whole Freedom Fries/French bashing, so I do not want it to come out like that, but...

He's a professional athlete, he did his job, very well. Accept for a few frenchmen in the past 7 years... King Richard, Jaja, and our ever attacking (this year), ever fighting (last year) Voekler, they've had nothing.

They wanted a global sport, they got one.

When it comes to this specific niche of the topic, the topic being Lance and the Tour, no matter what you think of Lance in other areas, screw the French. And by this I mean the organizers. I love Voekler and Moncoutie and Jaja and King Richard. The riders Rock. It's the organization at a nat'l level mixed with their media and coaching that could use modernization.

They want a world class event the french can dominate. They can have one or the other.

Two more SHOUT OUTS for riders.....

I think Little Salvatore Commesso did a great job this last year going from sprinter to CONSTANT attacker. (Not french, but made the race exciting, to me)

And lastly, I know he retired and was not there this year, but I gotta give props to my home boy Jacky Durand. Heart of a lion, built like a gazelle, ran all day like a Diesel locomotive. Nice guy off the bike to boot! Long Live Jacky Durand!

[shaq-d]

I suspect Armstrong would be a lot more "accepted"
in the Tour organization if he had stopped at 5 wins.
With 6, he rubbed the Tour's nose in it, with 7 he
made the Tour look like a joke.

If Lance had stopped at 5, he could simply be "on
par" with Merckx, Indurain, Hinault and Anquetil
and ridden off into the sunset. The Tour would
be happy and still searching for the next great
French hope......

depends on what piont of view u're construing the "should" from... from the piont of view of a fan that's not american or french (or in other words, just a basic cycling fan), i think armstrong's 7 is amazing, awesmoe, and i wouldn't have it any other way.

let the tour peeps quibble and whine and act like classless idiots. it'll be pathetic next year when the tour winner shakes hands with hinault, merckx, indurain, on the podium....but not the greatest tour winner of all time, armstrong.

sd

[cinelli]

If he had stopped at 5, his legacy would not have diminished.
If he had stopped at 5, he could have concentrated on the Giro
or Vuelta and added to his palmares.
If he had stopped at 5, he would be less wealthy and we would be wondering if could have won 6.......
Maybe he should just go for 8 and really make the French mad!

[Grant McLean]

I think at some point Lance will regret not racing to win some other events. The remarkable results of his tour wins came at a price. It would have been cool if he had tried to win the Giro and the Tour in the same year. Or "tour de france: Spanish Edition" (that's a funny joke I heard somewhere)

Grant

[b3bicycles]

That's like saying we should have stoped when the wheel was made of stone or - It's nice here, why go to the moon? Records are there to be broken, should the first man to break the 4 min. mile have stopped just before the tape?

[e-RICHIE]

That's like saying we should have stoped when the wheel was made of stone or - It's nice here, why go to the moon? Records are there to be broken, should the first man to break the 4 min. mile have stopped just before the tape?


they don't use tape in the mile run.

[67-59]

Huh?!?!?!?

Is his job to keep the French people happy, or to win races? Please! USPS/Discovery, Nike, et al paid him to win races (and specifically the Tour), and that's exactly what he did. To find fault with him for being too good at what he did seems pretty desperate.

Look at it this way -- did Indurain, Merckx or the others quit after 5? No! They all tried (and failed) to win more. To expect Lance to quit while the others kept trying to win more is pretty unrealistic.

[rphetteplace]

I would really like to see him come back next year and win the Giro & Vuelta, get tons of publicity for these two awesome races and steal some thunder from the Tour de France that in my opinion he made a worldwide event!

[divve]

If it has to be grand tours, I'd rather see him race the Giro and Tour of Germany (the way it was this year). The Vuelta somehow comes across as incredibly boring on TV. There's something about how the roads look in Spain. Often very wide, flat, in the middle of nowhere, and the climbs don't give the impression of being steep 99% of the time.

[Climb01742]

an athlete should simply see how good he/she can be. then let the chips fall where they may.

[dirtdigger88]

maybe the tour organizers are hoping to "taunt" lance into riding again- they may hate his guts- but he still pays the bills

Jason

[e-RICHIE]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.

[dirtdigger88]

do you mean follow pro racing- or do you mean would I ride without the tour

I guess for me- no tour- I would not follow ANY pro racing- I like it- but I dont get it on my tv- I dont buy the mags. that cover it- and i dont travel to see it- I only really pick up on what people here are saying-

I would still ride my bike though

Jason

[93legendti]

He should have never learned to ride a bike.

[Argos]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.

e-R....

My favorite time of year is in April! My ebay name is SpringClassics, my license plate is 'ROUBAIX' and my favorite wheelset is a King/Sapim/Mavics Classics SSC.

I love the Tour, But I LIVE for the Classics! :D

[e-RICHIE]

do you mean follow pro racing- or do you mean would I ride without the tour

I guess for me- no tour- I would not follow ANY pro racing- I like it- but I dont get it on my tv- I dont buy the mags. that cover it- and i dont travel to see it- I only really pick up on what people here are saying-

I would still ride my bike though

Jason


yeah - i mean "follow the sport...".

[LegendRider]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.

Absolutely, I'd follow the sport without the Tour (although I can't speak for others). I went to see the Tour in 1994 and it was a snooze - Indurain had it wrapped up before I set foot in France. Riding my bike up Alpe d'Huex, Hautacam, Luz-Ardiden and Mt. Ventoux made the trip very memorable. Anyway, most of us who are dedicated enough to cycling to spend time on this forum discussing the minutiae of bikes would probably still following the sport because we recognize the skill and ability it takes to win L-B-L, Tour de Suisse or other races of that caliber.

[dirtdigger88]

then I guess no- but not for the reasons one would think

The Tour reached out to a greater range of people than other events- we all know that- when I the last time your local news told you how someone was doing in the Giro? I mean the guy I work for has a tv in his office- he gets tour coverage - he was watching it and calling me in to explain what was going on- so I could see much of the racing-

I doubt that he even knows other tours exist?

So my following or not following has more to do with the tour being more mainstream- and that is because of Lance

Jason

[slowgoing]

Yeah, we should all start doing what the French want because otherwise they may not like us.

Good one.

[Tom]

When Armstrong got sick, I thought what a shame he'll not race again and then I thought what a shame he's going to drop dead. When he came back it was pretty cool for me because I'd been sick too and it was very neat to see him competing and his winning came as a real surprise. Somehow, though, the rot set in... these last couple races didn't have near the same charm. Did I merely grow bored? I don't know. It seemed to have become simply commercial. Maybe it's my pretensiousness showing, all those yellow wristbands on alll those 60% bodyfat types kind of got me annoyed.

My problem is I've always been the type that likes the number two... Spock was my favorite character. I like visiting northern Europe because nobody goes there. I like the Red Sox because they lose. Anybody can follow a winner or the most popular... it takes a little more to look for the value in the hidden.

The spring races are cool. The other tours are cool. The TdF is interesting in the same manner any mass phenomenon is interesting, which is that it's notable but not something to get all freaked out over.

What the hell does that have to do with anything other than I shouldn't have had six cups of coffee this morning? Christ knows.

[spiderlake]

I think Richie has a point. Many people, including myself, would probably not be fans of pro cycling without the attention and coverage devoted to the TDF. For many, it is the catalyst or entry point into the world of professional cycling. Some people choose not to expand their interest beyond the TDF but there are others that become fans of the one day races in the spring and the major European tours. I think many of us would still ride but perhaps not possess that much knowledge about the pro racing scene.

Of course, the TDF has an allure that goes beyond being just a bike race. As I've stated before, it wasn't until I had the opportunity to see a stage in person that I got a true sense of what the TDF means to people. In total, we saw the racers for mere seconds but it was an entire day event. People from so many different countries just having fun in a festive atmosphere. Food, wine and beer being shared..... Mix of languages..... National pride and the list goes on. We met so many great people in our area and had such a great time that the race seemed almost secondary in retrospect... Heck, just watching the "average joe and jane" ride every bike imaginable up the mountain at Courchevel was an experience in itself.

What am I trying to say?? I don't even know but I think Richie has a point and I don't agree that Armstrong should have stopped at five. Just my opinion! Have a great weekend!!

[Dr. Doofus]

bananamation is the principal occupation in the monkey nation

as such, we hang

from our perspective, that 2% difference in DNA screws you smooth-bodys up

so enough with the jingo-lingo

records are made to be broken

nationalities but a token

you must be jokin

or smokin

when such crap* as this is spoken





* and not even the kind you can roll up, press some seams into, and break off a Guidry-style back door slider with, to nail some spoiled brat who won't toss you an oreo

[palincss]

they don't use tape in the mile run.

Funny, that sure looks like a tape to me:
http://www.outofrange.net/blogarchive/archives/rogerbannister4min.jpg

That's Roger Bannister breaking the Four Minute Mile.

[Richard]

"...the Tour de France that in my opinion he [Armstrong] made a worldwide event!"

Your world is how big? Atlantic to Pacific going West?

[rphetteplace]

"...the Tour de France that in my opinion he [Armstrong] made a worldwide event!"

Your world is how big? Atlantic to Pacific going West?

sadly my world revolves strictly around me :fight:

[e-RICHIE]

Funny, that sure looks like a tape to me:
http://www.outofrange.net/blogarchive/archives/rogerbannister4min.jpg

That's Roger Bannister breaking the Four Minute Mile.


where do i mail the prize?

[jerk]

richard groendaal and sven nys could kick lance armstrongs *** right now.

so there.

and the jerk is coming in second to last tomorrow.

jerk

[weisan]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

Speakin' for myself...the answer is Yes. TDF constitutes maybe 0.5% of my total cycling diet.

[GoJavs]

Well, given that Wilma made a wreck out of my Directv dish, I'm down to pulling out old VHS tapes for entertainment while we wait for Publix to restock down here and I can kick my new canned chili habit...

Watched ESPN's Stage 18 coverage of the '95 Tour yesterday. I gotta tell ya, Armstrong looked superhuman back then too...When he took off of that very nice (Eki, Ferrigato, Sciandri, Dufaux etc...) breakway with about 18 miles to go, you could tell no-one was bringing that guy back...

So, although I'm no longer a fan, I respect that Armstrong was a big-time player since before he was Lance, the tour winner. Yeah, it would have been great to see him try to beat the Italians (dunno, the Mortirollo is a brute!), but, heck, at this point I'm psyched to watch the '06 TDF with a little bit of suspense.

BTW - the Tour is about 10% of my love for the sport. The rest of the time I spend trying to come up with ways to convince my wife to let me get on e-ritchie's list! :)

[William]

http://196.35.72.132/launchpad/theponycamp/Upload/horse_150.jpg

[cinelli]

they don't use tape in the mile run.

They don't even run the mile.
It's the 100 meters.
Another foreign conspiracy.

[cinelli]

yeah - i mean "follow the sport...".

Bring back the Tour of Texas!
In fact, I saw my first Richard
Sachs frame at the Tour of
Texas several years ago.

My point is, if you love bike
racing, you will follow it
whether it is the Tour de' France
or the Tour de' Pants.

[Fixed]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.I would I think we should support our riders and races in the u.s. and I also think the classics are great .and one of my fav. riders is my friend bill shook .cheers :beer:

[bluesea]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.

The last 2 tours that I've watched was the one where Jan won, and then lost. What the tour has, for me, is the stark beauty of the Alps and the Pyrenees. My interest lies more with the Giro, the classics, especially the Belgian races. I've never quite registered with the idea that L was an american winning for america. The same with Lemond. It seems that the spectacle of the tour has taken away from the accomplisments of the one-day racers--this in terms of what we are fed by the media.

Controversial I know, but the last great race was in '89 where 3 tour winners battled for the yellow jersey.

[jdoiv]

Controversial I know, but the last great race was in '89 where 3 tour winners battled for the yellow jersey.


I used to have a VeloNews subscription in the late eighties and would read them cover to cover as soon as they arrived. The tour is but one small aspect of pro racing regardless of what the media would like us to believe. I think L did a bit of a disservice to the sport by not actively competting in more events. The racing season is long and full of events, yet somehow, the Tour is all anybody recognizes now....

[harlond]

I suspect Armstrong would be a lot more "accepted"
in the Tour organization if he had stopped at 5 wins.
With 6, he rubbed the Tour's nose in it, with 7 he
made the Tour look like a joke.
It's possible that if LA had stopped at 5 or been beaten in 6, L'Equipe might not have pursued and published the results of retesting of the year 1 samples. But I think that LeBlanc is holding LA at arm's length mainly because he's tired of having doping connected to the TdF, not because LA won more than 5. The frostiness I attribute to the sniping that has gone on since the L'Equipe report, not to resentment at LA's success. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the profitability of the TdF has increased markedly during LA's run; why would LeBlanc resent that?

[dehoopta]

Huh?!?!?!?

Is his job to keep the French people happy, or to win races? Please! USPS/Discovery, Nike, et al paid him to win races (and specifically the Tour), and that's exactly what he did. To find fault with him for being too good at what he did seems pretty desperate.

.
I don't think he was being serious about him stoping at 5

[gary135r]

Maybe it's my pretensiousness showing, all those yellow wristbands on alll those 60% bodyfat types kind of got me annoyed.



The LIVESTRONG bracelets mean more than if your a cyclist.

[Ginger]

Gee, the tour organizers got you all talking about the 2006 tour!

Good for them!

[Tom]

The LIVESTRONG bracelets mean more than if your a cyclist.

Don't get me wrong - I'm alive because of cancer research - but I started to suspect a lot of those were fashion accessories. You don't see nearly so many these days, if you notice.

[dehoopta]

Maybe it's my pretensiousness showing, all those yellow wristbands on alll those 60% bodyfat types kind of got me annoyed.
.

The bands say LIVESTRONG not live thin, go Lance, I am as fit as Lance. It had to do with raising money for cancer. Even if it was about showing support for Lance, do i have to have a body fat of 15% to wear one? If that were true very few NFL replica jerseys would be sold.

go decaf next time

[Ginger]

Yep, fashion accessories...I gave them out during holiday season and the kids were all about the bands. They'd have one of every color...

it didn't matter what they were *for*. It diluted the meaning for me.



I've noticed far fewer yellow bands out there, so I'm about ready to start wearing one again.

[rphetteplace]

shaking head good thing the stupid bands didn't make like $60 million dollars for cancer research or anything.

ps. I don't wear one because my wrists are too thick

[bluesea]

I think L did a bit of a disservice to the sport by not actively competting in more events. The racing season is long and full of events, yet somehow, the Tour is all anybody recognizes now....

True, but all he did was to take to extremes a trend started my Lemond, and taken further by Indurain.

BTW, which was the best of his tours? I'd like to get a DVD.

[Larry]

Lance has said that the 2003 TDF was his strongest (physically)
2004 was the year that he won a significant number of stages in the mountains.
I feel that his team continued to get stronger and stronger in 2003 through 2005.....that is why he dominated his rivals, really without a challenge.

And....from listening to Armstrong's interviews on TV, he had his efforts for the TDF carefully calculated. He admitted on TV that 2005 would be his last tour.....and this has been several years ago.

So.....again it was Lance's goal and long-range planning that produced 7 in a row......brilliant understanding of his abilities, his rivals, and his limitations.

I am looking forward to finding out who will be Discovery Channels' next team leader. In the meantime I will root for Ullrich in 2006. He performed brilliantly last July.

[93legendti]

Lance has said that the 2003 TDF was his strongest (physically)
2004 was the year that he won a significant number of stages in the mountains.
I feel that his team continued to get stronger and stronger in 2003 through 2005.....that is why he dominated his rivals, really without a challenge.

And....from listening to Armstrong's interviews on TV, he had his efforts for the TDF carefully calculated. He admitted on TV that 2005 would be his last tour.....and this has been several years ago.

So.....again it was Lance's goal and long-range planning that produced 7 in a row......brilliant understanding of his abilities, his rivals, and his limitations.

I am looking forward to finding out who will be Discovery Channels' next team leader. In the meantime I will root for Ullrich in 2006. He performed brilliantly last July.

No he said it was 2001 when the strongest. 2003 was the hardest.

[Andreu]

I suspect Armstrong would be a lot more "accepted"
in the Tour organization if he had stopped at 5 wins.
With 6, he rubbed the Tour's nose in it, with 7 he
made the Tour look like a joke.

If Lance had stopped at 5, he could simply be "on
par" with Merckx, Indurain, Hinault and Anquetil
and ridden off into the sunset. The Tour would
be happy and still searching for the next great
French hope......

is your real name Jan Pieeater by any chance?
A

[djg]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.

I suppose I don't follow the sport nearly as well as some, but I've been interested for more than a few years. For whatever it is worth, I can truthfully say that that it wasn't the tour that got me interested in bike racing. I'd been a recreational cyclist, and occasional tourist, in high school, where I was a pretty good, regional-caliber tennis player and a considerably less good ski racer. I played one year of college tennis--a variety of issues led to an unhappy experience on both sides of the player/coaching staff divide and that was that. I went to France for a bit and saw real bike racing. One race in particular got me started--I stumbled upon it on a rainy and chilly day and it was just so plainly cool that I had to get into it.

At the same time, I've been pretty keen on following the tour over the years. Not just the tour, to the exclusion of everything else in the sport, but always the tour, as a highlight of the season. I'm neither the most passionate nor the most knowledgeable cycling fan, but I like what I like and don't much see the problem with that.

If you're asking whether nearly so many Americans would follow anything to do with bike racing were it not for the tour, and for the fact that, in the past couple of decades, there have been a couple of top tour champions coming from the US and, courtesy of the tube, back TO the US, then ... well, I hardly think you could be asking THAT, as it seems pretty obvious that the answer is "no." So?

[davids]

would anyone here follow this sport without the tour?

i mean --- would folks here be that submerged in
this stuff if you took the tour out of the equation?

i often see this lance/tdf/"7 wins" topic as jingoistic.
No, I wouldn't be following professional bike racing if it wasn't for Lance Armstrong.

I was certainly aware of it before Lance, but really didn't pay too much attention. I started paying attention because of Lance's extremely compelling story. But I'm still paying attention, and looking forward to watching the racing world evolve after his departure. I do think the Tour was pretty boring this year, and am uncomfortable with some of my cycling buddies' Lance worship.

And just to be clear - Lance Armstrong has nothing to do with my love of cycling - He didn't get me to go buy my mountain bike, or my road bike, or my next bikes... He doesn't get me out the door at 5:45 am, or in the depths of winter. OTOH, my love of cycling does help me appreciate professional bike racing, and Armstrong's accomplishments, more deeply.

But I didn't follow racing before his ascension.

[vaxn8r]

Actually I follow the Tour because of Greg. This is true. IMO his accomplishments are still greater because he broke the American barrier.

I'd ride no matter what. I rode before I even heard of Greg Lemond.

The Tour and all bike racing has lost a lot of meaning for me over the last decade. I'll always admire what they do and how they do it but I do not believe they are doing it without artificial aids. Not just cycling but all pro sports and honestly all the way down to the high school level. I now have a very jaded eye because I know what's possible and I know the percentages of users.

[William]

To a small extent Greg.
More so due to indurain.
I've grown to enjoy the classics.
I would still follow it if the Tour died off.
With that said, I'll admit I enjoy watching the Tour.


William

[bluesea]

No, I wouldn't be following professional bike racing if it wasn't for Lance Armstrong.



Hey, we're like Danny and Arnold. I lost interest in the tour for the same reason.