Best newer carbon race bike recommendation

[kgreene10]

I have that terrible itch for a new bike -- or at least a new frameset. My rational self (or my wife) may successfully beat back the demon inside, but in the meantime, I want to hear your thoughts about the best newer carbon race bikes you have actually ridden for some length of time yourself.

I have a few requirements. It needs to have a relatively long HT. It doesn't need to be massive, but something on the order of what Cervelo offers, for instance. It should be a good all-arounder so that I can race flat road races, hilly road races, and crits. I would also prefer that it can take a hit and survive. My current bike (Fisher Cronus) uses extremely large diameter and thin-walled tubes, making it a "one-crash" bike. Ask me how I know!

A little about me. I'm 6'1" 155 lbs, 43 years old, a better climber than a flatlander and better at threshold than at sprinting. I race mostly in TX where there are a lot of short and steep climbs but I like traveling to places that have real climbs up actual mountains. I find that rear end responsiveness and stiffness is helpful for snapping up the little climbs (in many ways, they end up being like little intermediate sprints).

Here are some frames I'm curious about, but my curiosity isn't limited to these by any extent:

- Cervelo R5
- Cannondale Supersix Evo (not sure which flavor)
- Anything made by Time, maybe a VXRS
- Specialized Tarmac SL4
- Crumpton Corsa Team

Here's what I've been on in the past. Current ride is a Fisher Cronus (monocoque). It's stiff and responsive but lacks passion and maybe it's just me or my fit on the bike, but I have trouble descending confidently on it. Time Edge Racer (lugged carbon) was really great although a little noodely, but it had the passion. Time RX Instinct (monocoque front triangle, lugged rear). I dunno, this one just didn't have it. It was fine but not better enough that the Fisher to keep it.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences.

[Joachim]

My choice for stock carbon would be: Crumpton corsa team, Parlee Z5Sl or Colnago C59. For custom there is only one for me...Crumpton.

[AngryScientist]

'nago C59 ?

[thegunner]

'nago C59 ?

my current 'lust-after' frame o' the week

[AngryScientist]

I should also add:

I've ridden quite a few bikes, and when it was time for me to buy a plastic bike, i wound up choosing an Argon 18 for myself. is it the sexiest hi-zoot frame in the world - no. it certainly does ride very well, and puts the power down nicely. i'm not a racer, but i do my fare share of hammerfest typed fast rides, and that's what i bought this bike for. it gets the job done. no drama, no downside that i can detect.

the "3d" headset allows you to really dial in what headtube length you want, which i found to be a nice feature. i'm happy with mine. i have a few thousand miles on it now, no regrets.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g7UErNgaeKQ/UB3BZBYL53I/AAAAAAAAAl4/O4U7lyO9guk/s640/IMG_0859.JPG

[kgreene10]

my current 'lust-after' frame o' the week

You're in college, right? Unless you're headed to dental school next, keep on lusting! Or maybe the lust itself will spark an interest in the dental arts?

The C59 looks quite nice but it's waaaaay out of my league price-wise unless Jack Brunk suddenly starts riding a 59cm.

[kramnnim]

Look 595?

[thegunner]

You're in college, right? Unless you're headed to dental school next, keep on lusting! Or maybe the lust itself will spark an interest in the dental arts?

The C59 looks quite nice but it's waaaaay out of my league price-wise unless Jack Brunk suddenly starts riding a 59cm.

going back to grad school... so yeah, it's not a realistic dream haha :(

unfortunately the only interest i have is in the sciences. of computers.

[ultraman6970]

I was still racing at your age I would go with an old high end aluminum bike like a derosa merak, a planet or something similar like a caad or a BMC racemaster. Specially because to win an occasional race or to ride your group sure even can be done with a steel bike.

Easier to replace a 500 bucks frame than a 3000 carbon one, specially because you clearly you cant fool your wife no more :P and becasue from what i can see you are sponsoring yourself. Im older than you just in case.

As for the handling problem you have, if you are seated all the way back, short stem and not too much drop in the stem. Then there you have the problem with the handling.

Good luck hope you find what you are looking for, but the issue you have with paper thin tubes doesnt have any solution because for the manufactures to be able to built lighter they had to go with oversize tubing, oversize tubing means thin paper tubing. That means maybe that all your list will have the same problem because all of them have oversize tubing.

cheers :D

[shovelhd]

I race a Felt F series. It is not a purist bike by any means. It has very little snob factor. It has no major outstanding qualities, it just does everything really well, no matter if it is a tight NCC criterium, a back country road race, or a training ride with friends. Crisp handling, very stiff, comfortable ride. I am currently on an FC frameset, which is the equivalent of an F2/F3 bike.

[Peter B]

Look 595?

+1. Like mine a lot!

[Gummee]

Important reminder: only race what you can afford to replace.

Me? I'd say low- to mid-end plastic frames at the highest end if you're racing. Nothing exotic/expensive unless you're a trust fund baby.

My (broke as #$%#$) $.02

M

[sailorboy]

I'm in the same boat with the need for longer head tube and the parlee offerings with the extended HT are cool. I've had a supersix for 1/2 a season now and I need to run more spacers than I'd like since the HT is pretty short. I like everything else about it though.

any of the Z5 variations with stock geo in 'tall; sound like they would work for you. They are routinely going for under 2 grand. I would recommend 2012 and beyond since the 2011 one uses a bonded alloy sleeve BB30 where they used PF30 starting in 2012.

[FlashUNC]

Since you're in Austin, why not go see Mr Crumpton?

That's a far better option than giving Specialized more money IMO.

[Walter]

Lots of great stuff out there. I ride a Madone 6.9 SSL and a C 50. My advice is to go ride as many as you can to see what fits with you. I did that at the Interbike Outdoor Demo and was quite surprised at the different feel of different bikes when ridden back to back. They all were good...just different.

[DonH]

Try the Tarmac SL4. I love it - its not cheap, but rides great. I had an SL3 that was nice also. I cannot say how they hold up in crashes though.

[bfd]

I have that terrible itch for a new bike -- or at least a new frameset. My rational self (or my wife) may successfully beat back the demon inside, but in the meantime, I want to hear your thoughts about the best newer carbon race bikes you have actually ridden for some length of time yourself.

I have a few requirements. It needs to have a relatively long HT. It doesn't need to be massive, but something on the order of what Cervelo offers, for instance. It should be a good all-arounder so that I can race flat road races, hilly road races, and crits. I would also prefer that it can take a hit and survive. My current bike (Fisher Cronus) uses extremely large diameter and thin-walled tubes, making it a "one-crash" bike. Ask me how I know!

A little about me. I'm 6'1" 155 lbs, 43 years old, a better climber than a flatlander and better at threshold than at sprinting. I race mostly in TX where there are a lot of short and steep climbs but I like traveling to places that have real climbs up actual mountains. I find that rear end responsiveness and stiffness is helpful for snapping up the little climbs (in many ways, they end up being like little intermediate sprints).

Here are some frames I'm curious about, but my curiosity isn't limited to these by any extent:

- Cervelo R5
- Cannondale Supersix Evo (not sure which flavor)
- Anything made by Time, maybe a VXRS
- Specialized Tarmac SL4
- Crumpton Corsa Team

Here's what I've been on in the past. Current ride is a Fisher Cronus (monocoque). It's stiff and responsive but lacks passion and maybe it's just me or my fit on the bike, but I have trouble descending confidently on it. Time Edge Racer (lugged carbon) was really great although a little noodely, but it had the passion. Time RX Instinct (monocoque front triangle, lugged rear). I dunno, this one just didn't have it. It was fine but not better enough that the Fisher to keep it.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experiences.

What's your price range? If its around $5K or so for an entire bike, a few suggestion of the new bikes in our group include:

Trek Madone with ultegra di2
Willier with Sram Red
Specialized S-Works with Sram Red
C'dale evo with either Red or di2
Bianchi with di2

Several of my riding buddies have purchased the above and they love it! The Red group does have a bad ft der and loud cassette, but if you get the 2012 and new Red ft der with Yaw, it supposedly solves all the shifting problems. Loud cassette? HAHAHA, have you heard their wheels - rear hub buzzzzz No problem, just part of the "noise" in today's packs!

In contrast, the bikes with di2 are smooooth and quiet! Shimano electronic shifting is second to none!

I saw test drive each and see what you like! Good Luck!

[thegunner]

we've basically listed every manufacturer's top carbon frame in this thread.

buy what you think looks nice + fits your riding style. they're all pretty similar at the stock production high end.

[jlwdm]

You're in college, right? Unless you're headed to dental school next, keep on lusting! Or maybe the lust itself will spark an interest in the dental arts?

..

The dentist comments are really tiresome. Also since when were dentists considered the high income group?

Jeff

[kgreene10]

Not meant to offend, but of course it's pretty mild humor compared to the grotesque lawyer jokes out there.

Let's not get sidetracked though. I'm still curious to hear from those who have raced on newish carbon frameset offerings, like the ride, and can explain why. I'm all set as far as the build kit goes.

[slidey]

I've been riding a Ridley Excalibur for a considerable period. To describe it in one word - brilliant! To give you an idea of what it's being benchmarked against - merckx mx leader, merckx premium, specialized allez/tarmac (short rides). I can only estimate the Ridley Noah will be just as spectacular.

I'm still curious to hear from those who have raced on newish carbon frameset offerings, like the ride, and can explain why. I'm all set as far as the build kit goes.

[thegunner]

since I haven't actually given my opinion :)

I rode a Cervelo S2 for a while, a Ridley Damocles before that, a CR1 at one point before that, and my fair share of aluminum bikes (CAAD9, CAAD10, Allez, Speedster)

I like my Addict far more than I liked either of my prior carbon numbers. It's lighter, less stiff (for which I have no need at 135), and in general rides nicer while still being fairly lively. I know they don't make them anymore, but they're not too hard to find.

[bart998]

Landshark.

[veloduffer]

I have that terrible itch for a new bike -- or at least a new frameset. My rational self (or my wife) may successfully beat back the demon inside, but in the meantime, I want to hear your thoughts about the best newer carbon race bikes you have actually ridden for some length of time yourself.

I have a few requirements. It needs to have a relatively long HT. It doesn't need to be massive, but something on the order of what Cervelo offers, for instance. It should be a good all-arounder so that I can race flat road races, hilly road races, and crits. I would also prefer that it can take a hit and survive. My current bike (Fisher Cronus) uses extremely large diameter and thin-walled tubes, making it a "one-crash" bike. Ask me how I know!

A little about me. I'm 6'1" 155 lbs, 43 years old, a better climber than a flatlander and better at threshold than at sprinting. I race mostly in TX where there are a lot of short and steep climbs but I like traveling to places that have real climbs up actual mountains. I find that rear end responsiveness and stiffness is helpful for snapping up the little climbs (in many ways, they end up being like little intermediate sprints).


For rear-end responsiveness, my opinion is the Parlee Z5. I wanted the same when I bought my new carbon ride and the Parlee fit the bill (I got the Z4). I like to power out of the saddle up the short steep hills and the Parlee is my fav out of all my bikes for just that.

You might fit the M/L Tall or L Tall. FWIW I got the Large Tall and it is 15.1 lbs with mix of Chorus/Athena (without pedals) and Stan's Alpha rims with Alchemy hubs.

[zap]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g7UErNgaeKQ/UB3BZBYL53I/AAAAAAAAAl4/O4U7lyO9guk/s640/IMG_0859.JPG

Angry dude, i'm going to find u in Jersey and tweak those bars to the proper position...........

[JonB]

SL4, Madone, Supersix Evo, etc. They're all fantastic bicycles. They will all have similar virtues. The current carbon frames are absolutely fantastic. The engineering that goes into these frames by the major manufacturers is really quite amazing.

I have recently settled on the Felt F1 because the geometry suited me best. It has the lowest headtube of any of the major manufacturers my size (16cm HT in a size 58cm). As mentioned earlier its a great do-it-all frameset.

Take a good look at the geometry charts for all and test ride as much as possible.

[Lovetoclimb]

Cipollini makes bikes now . . . 100% in Italy too.

some of the fastest amateur/conti pro racers I know swear by Time bikes.

[1/2 Wheeler]

Cdale or Trek.

[SoCalSteve]

'nago C59 ?

Just snagged one from eBay for a song. Can't wait to build it up! Just back from 10 days in Hawaii...photos and ride report soon.

[mcteague]

Cdale or Trek.

I could never buy a Trek. Far too common and, of course, there is that whole Lance thing.

Tim

[gemship]

I could never buy a Trek. Far too common and, of course, there is that whole Lance thing.

Tim

I hear you but for the money this bike is freaking awesome. To affordably have the absolute pinnacle of todays trickled down racebike tech nobody, not even a bike snob could go wrong. The new Trek 5.9 with Di2 and Ultegra Tubeless is a bargain compared to a Crumpton, Parlee, Colnago...blah,blah. Spend enough time on this forum and those too become the passe.


http://www.bicycleemporium.com/products/trek-madone-5-9-di2.aspx

[christian]

Tubeless
You lost me here. Road tubeless -- It's like all the bad parts of clinchers and tubulars, but less convenient, messier, and with fewer choices!

[gemship]

You lost me here. Road tubeless -- It's like all the bad parts of clinchers and tubulars, but less convenient, messier, and with fewer choices!

new tech you either embrace it or not, you're lost anyways aren't you a old school Merckx fan? :bike:

[mcteague]

I hear you but for the money this bike is freaking awesome. To affordably have the absolute pinnacle of todays trickled down racebike tech nobody, not even a bike snob could go wrong. The new Trek 5.9 with Di2 and Ultegra Tubeless is a bargain compared to a Crumpton, Parlee, Colnago...blah,blah. Spend enough time on this forum and those too become the passe.


http://www.bicycleemporium.com/products/trek-madone-5-9-di2.aspx

I agree. And, I point new riders towards Trek or Specialized. Hard to go wrong with either. Just my snobbishness showing through.

Still, the way Trek failed to promote Lemond bikes and then dumped them due to poor sales, under pressure from you know who, really makes me mad. That alone keeps me away from anything with "Trek" written on it.


Tim

[shovelhd]

Just my snobbishness showing through.

Tim

Kudos to you for admitting it.

[gemship]

Still, the way Trek failed to promote Lemond bikes and then dumped them due to poor sales, under pressure from you know who, really makes me mad. That alone keeps me away from anything with "Trek" written on it.


Tim

That is actually a excellent thread topic and may be worth rehashing(if not new) in light of more recent events. I don't know all the details but I do recall Lemond growing a enormous ego of his own and perhaps it was a mistake all together merging with Trek, can't blame him for following the dollar signs.

[shovelhd]

I have recently settled on the Felt F1

When I broke my F5, I knew I would stick with Felt because the F series fits me so well. I would have loved an F1 frame kit, but that was out of the question. So I ended up with the FC frame kit at a huge discount.

[Jawn P]

I have recently settled on the Felt F1 because the geometry suited me best. It has the lowest headtube of any of the major manufacturers my size (16cm HT in a size 58cm). As mentioned earlier its a great do-it-all frameset.

Not quite a halo bike (I wouldn't think you would want a race bike to be...), but my Felt FC kicks so much ass. Geometry puts my hands where they need to be and the bike stays pretty planted. Only minor gripe is that a 27mm pave is a little tight for comfort in the rear.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=108516

[dd74]

Don't know much about carbon, but I did see a whole display of Colnago C59 Italia at an LBS I visited. Stunning frames. Mean and beautiful at the same time.

There was also a black Cannondale, designated as "Black" on the top tube. That was a good looking frame as well.

I've heard very good things about Pinarello Dogma from the boys at Campagnolo's west coast headquarters in Carlsbad on which they've mounted and test EPS.

These three frames have internal routing, which to me begs for electronic shifting. I'd go that route.

[cmg]

Just snagged one from eBay for a song. Can't wait to build it up! Just back from 10 days in Hawaii...photos and ride report soon.

post a build report. is to one that can use disc brakes?

[Pete Mckeon]

First off I AM BIASED

the ones you mention below are nice but so are:
=SEROTTA
=TREK
=LOOK
=PARLEE
=Willier
- Many others

It sure depend on which one you like the fit and looks of better. (and the dealer you frequent, )

It is hard to find a bad one,,,,pick based on your "smile" and fit.


Yeah I am biased on Serotta





Here are some frames I'm curious about, but my curiosity isn't limited to these by any extent:

- Cervelo R5
- Cannondale Supersix Evo (not sure which flavor)
- Anything made by Time, maybe a VXRS
- Specialized Tarmac SL4
- Crumpton Corsa Team

.

[SoCalSteve]

post a build report. is to one that can use disc brakes?

Nope, just DI2 specific.

[Tandem Rider]

Racer on a budget here, I race on what I can afford to replace and not cry too long when it breaks (it will). Sounds like you have broken a frame too, learn from that. ALL frames and parts can and will break, especially if crashed.

Race bikes and "Sunday" bikes are 2 different things. Race bike = Mid-level frame that fits (often used and sold locally at the shop supporting racing) + mid-level parts (like Ultegra) + good wheels + great tires. Sunday bike = sky or wife's glare is the limit, ride what makes you tick.

[oldpotatoe]

I agree. And, I point new riders towards Trek or Specialized. Hard to go wrong with either. Just my snobbishness showing through.

Still, the way Trek failed to promote Lemond bikes and then dumped them due to poor sales, under pressure from you know who, really makes me mad. That alone keeps me away from anything with "Trek" written on it.


Tim

http://www.maestro-uk.com

C59 for about $3800 or so...best of the best, IMHO, if it fits you.

[Gummee]

I agree. And, I point new riders towards Trek or Specialized. Hard to go wrong with either. Just my snobbishness showing through.

Still, the way Trek failed to promote Lemond bikes and then dumped them due to poor sales, under pressure from you know who, really makes me mad. That alone keeps me away from anything with "Trek" written on it.


Tim
From my buddy inside Trek, it was the dealers that pressured em to dump the LeMond name. Seems they couldn't move anything with his name on it. You'll have to confirm that on your own, but that's what I heard.

You saw plenty of LeMond advertising up till he started sounding like a bitter, old man. He was his own downfall. There's a TON of LeMonds out there. Look at CL...

I understand why he was upset, but there's upset and working on fixing the problem positively and how he came across.

My $.02

M

[mcteague]

From my buddy inside Trek, it was the dealers that pressured em to dump the LeMond name. Seems they couldn't move anything with his name on it. You'll have to confirm that on your own, but that's what I heard.

You saw plenty of LeMond advertising up till he started sounding like a bitter, old man. He was his own downfall. There's a TON of LeMonds out there. Look at CL...

I understand why he was upset, but there's upset and working on fixing the problem positively and how he came across.

My $.02

M

That's what they would say.:D

Tim

[jlwdm]

That's what they would say.:D

Tim

Yes, since he was a pain.

Jeff

[mcteague]

Yes, since he was a pain.

Jeff

How so? GL raised lots of questions about doping that certainly appear to have been right on the money. Guess he was just ahead of the curve. Everyone who questioned Armstrong was dragged thorough the mud by the many minions attached to his coat tails. I suppose that would have been a pain to some, not to me.

Tim

[MadRocketSci]

after all this it sounds like what you still want is the VXRS...a stiffer edge racer with pretty much the same geo, cept 3mm shorter in HT and 1mm shorter in CS.

where is the edge racer noodley? front end/top tube, or drivetrain?

[559Rando]

My current bike (Fisher Cronus) uses extremely large diameter and thin-walled tubes, making it a "one-crash" bike. Ask me how I know!

I'll bite...how do you know?

But seriously, if you want smaller diamater, thicker carbon, I think that Calfee is the way to go.

Me? I'd say low- to mid-end plastic frames at the highest end if you're racing. Nothing exotic/expensive unless you're a trust fund baby.

That makes sense. And while you're at it, don't overlook Al, either, if light and stiff and a certain geometry are your only criteria.

Also since when were dentists considered the high income group?

You're right a lot dentists in major metro areas only do as well as engineers and other advanced degree holders. But a dentist in an underserved rural community can make boo-koo bucks. And oral and maxilofacial surgeons also rake in the stuff. Everywhere. But they have two doctorates. Braces and cosmetic work also pay a lot.

Signed: the dental dropout

[kgreene10]

Yeah, I think a VXRS might be good to try. Plus, they are old enough now that I might be able to afford one! Maybe I just like the ride quality of lugged carbon better than monocoque. The Edge Racer was very good but could have been stiffer in front and in the BB area or the chainstay. Front end torsional stiffness seems pretty easy to feel when cornering hard or sprinting, all other components and wheels/tires equal. I'm less sure how to identify and refer to what I think has to do with the drivetrain area. When I got on the Fisher Cronus with its massive diameter tubes and associated massive BB shell, I noticed more and quicker forward momentum when I needed to spike power, both sitting and standing. The Edge Racer needed a bit more of that. And I'm by no means a big guy. The shaped tubes on tre VXRS might just do the trick.

[kgreene10]

I'll bite...how do you know?

Cuz I crashed. It was spectacular or anything. The pack got bunched a few corners from the finish and while on a perfectly nice straightaway, I stupidly allowed my wheel to overlap during a mild acceleration when the guy in front of me was just a little slower o react. I went down and shamefully took out three others. My face was saved by sliding on top of a nice man's shoe. It was gravelly and I lost a lot of skin, including (unpleaaantly) most of the skin on the back of my right thigh. I think I got run over twice while I was face down.

Anyway, the bike hit once and then slid. It wasn't a terribly hard smack. The paper thin chainstay broke and the SRAM shifters snapped off like matchsticks (not because the levers broke but because the tiny tabs on the housing did).

A local frame builder in Austin repaired the chainstay and I have put another season and a half on the bike since.

[beeatnik]

Cuz I crashed. It was spectacular or anything. The pack got bunched a few corners from the finish and while on a perfectly nice straightaway, I stupidly allowed my wheel to overlap during a mild acceleration when the guy in front of me was just a little slower o react. I went down and shamefully took out three others. My face was saved by sliding on top of a nice man's shoe. It was gravelly and I lost a lot of skin, including (unpleaaantly) most of the skin on the back of my right thigh. I think I got run over twice while I was face down.

Anyway, the bike hit once and then slid. It wasn't a terribly hard smack. The paper thin chainstay broke and the SRAM shifters snapped off like matchsticks (not because the levers broke but because the tiny tabs on the housing did).

A local frame builder in Austin repaired the chainstay and I have put another season and a half on the bike since.

We have a similar riding style. Fastest most responsive frame for me, Litespeed C1 or C1R. Super strong frame as well. You can ask my local BH dealer; he'll confirm. Many deals to be had on this frameset.

You'll love the EVO as well; however, the headtube isn't as long as the Litespeed's and it's not as responsive on rollers.