Problem With an eBay Purchase

[Peter P.]

I purchased a used fluid trainer through an individual using a Buy It Now option on eBay. The seller has a very high rating-100% positive feedback for 53 items sold in the last year.

I paid for the trainer through PayPal.

It appears U.S. Postal has lost the trainer somehow; it's 12 days overdue. There is a tracking number I've been able to follow it, but it shows no activity from the date it reached the nearby depot. I don't know whether the seller bought insurance.

I'm trying to plan ahead. It appears I have 45 days from the date payment was made to file a claim with eBay through the Buyer Protection Plan. I'm not sure PayPal offers any protection. I just want to file a claim before any statute of limitations runs out yet give the seller some time to work this out.

Any suggestions on how to proceed? Can I get restitution through eBay? PayPal? Or only from the seller?

[4Rings6Stars]

Go to the post office with the tracking number and ask them...

Then talk to seller and try to resolve if the package truly is lost.

If they are not cooperative, file a claim with ebay. They almost always side with the buyer, especially if you have tracking info showing that it never made it to your address.

[ultraman6970]

Mail has been pretty mad lately, if it was sent usps ground, not priority then the thing will take like 15 days to get to you if not more.

The scanning for parcel is just a courtecy scanning and since we are at the end of the year they just pack the stuff in the trucks and no scanings at all untill you get the stuff in a distribution center. Then in there sometimes the things gets stuck for a week if not priority.

Thing that happened to me is that the box never made it off the truck then came back to the origin point, then went for sorting and everything again and took like a month for me to actually get the item because had to be shipped again here...

If the thing was sent using fedex or so, then the thing is different. If was using parcel USPS the box sure is stuck in there just waiting. Be patient.

[ultraman6970]

Sent a frame to FL from VA and that tihng arrived actually 8 days late... i got a frame overdue like a week... and so far USPS is overwhelmed with crap at the end of the year.. if the tracking says that the item is in the sorting facility or at least in your area then it must be there, a trainer is not sometihng that small and stuff with tracking numbers dont get lost that I know of.

[Louis]

Parcel post as this time of year is super-slow. Assuming it was truly sent to you, then I bet it will show up. If it does not, I'd wait until Friday 11 January, then go to the US post office with printouts documenting the situation.

[bargainguy]

AFAIK, USPS tracking only gets updated once a day, not like real-time tracking for UPS or FedEx. Even then, tracking can be abysmal. I've ordered stuff from other countries and it still shows as not having left Mumbai or wherever even though it's already been delivered to me. Give it time.

[maximus]

I always seem to have issues with Parcel Post - guess you get what you pay for. USPS has been making an effort to improve their tracking system, but with the holidays in full swing, things seem to be more haywire than usual.

I recently shipped two sets of wheels via USPS and one of the tracking numbers never even registered in the system after dropping them off. The other seemed to be tracking fine until it arrived and they left a notice on the recipients door. No update and that was 8 days ago. In both cases I am keeping my fingers crossed that the buyers got their wheels and are happy.

Another time I bought set of Mavic Kysriums back when eBay and Bing had that crazy deal going on. My wheels arrived over 2 weeks late (outside of their 8 biz day window).

Guess thats a long way of saying keep hope alive, but definitely get the ball rolling with your seller, eBay and Paypal.

[Llewellyn]

Parcel post as this time of year is super-slow. Assuming it was truly sent to you, then I bet it will show up.

Ain't that the truth. A forumite posted something to me on 11 December and it stayed in his home town until it turned up in the New York sorting facility on the 20th, and apparently it was processed through the facility that day but I have no idea where it is now, or if it's still stuck there.

This is all according to USPS tracking, but I don't know how reliable their tracking info is.

[thirdgenbird]

I've had multiple lost packages through the US postal service in the last 18 months. Several eventually showed up and two never did. In one case, the insurance claim process took several trips to the post office, countless phone calls, and several months. At one point, my claim was closed (with no notification) because my documentation/proof of value mysteriously never showed up.

Anyway, my advice:
Go to the local office. The listed 800# is worthless.

If you make calls, do some searching for the accounting office. If I recall, it was in St. Louis. This is how i found out why my claim had been closed. Oddly, my paperwork was found within hours of this call (over a month after I submitted it)

[LouDeeter]

I shipped wheels this month via Parcel post that were estimated to take 7 days--took 21 days but made it. I dropped a small package off at the post office last Friday, again parcel post, and the clerk told me parcel post is taking up to 30 days right now. I wouldn't worry about it until after 30 days.

[4Rings6Stars]

I shipped a wheelset parcel post on the 26th and it was estimated to arrive on the 31st but showed up on the 28th... Seems to be hit or miss.

[VTCaraco]

Shipped something from VT on a Saturday, showed up in Idaho on Monday. I was shocked.
Shipped something on a Monday headed to Wyoming. Promised it would be there on Thursday. The following Monday it still hadn't arrived. Stopped at the Post Office and they did a search on their system (which DOES have very different information than the tracking we can access). Was told that it was in a sorting facility in Des Moines (if my memory is right) ~ that budget problems were causing all sorts of changes. Promised that it still existed and should be delivered soon. Showed up the next afternoon.

My advice, talk to your local folks and see what they can share; and see if you can solicit the seller's support as well. And cross the 'loss' bridge if / when needed.

[oldpotatoe]

I purchased a used fluid trainer through an individual using a Buy It Now option on eBay. The seller has a very high rating-100% positive feedback for 53 items sold in the last year.

I paid for the trainer through PayPal.

It appears U.S. Postal has lost the trainer somehow; it's 12 days overdue. There is a tracking number I've been able to follow it, but it shows no activity from the date it reached the nearby depot. I don't know whether the seller bought insurance.

I'm trying to plan ahead. It appears I have 45 days from the date payment was made to file a claim with eBay through the Buyer Protection Plan. I'm not sure PayPal offers any protection. I just want to file a claim before any statute of limitations runs out yet give the seller some time to work this out.

Any suggestions on how to proceed? Can I get restitution through eBay? PayPal? Or only from the seller?

The 'culprit' is the USPS..with tracking number, go talk to them personally.

[oldguy00]

Regardless of who the 'culprit' is, you have paypal/ebay protection. Use it.
Let the seller deal with USPS, it is their responsibility.
I'd give it as much time as possible, but don't let the 45 day window go by.

[troymac]

Regardless of who the 'culprit' is, you have paypal/ebay protection. Use it.
Let the seller deal with USPS, it is their responsibility.
I'd give it as much time as possible, but don't let the 45 day window go by.


Im pretty familiar with the shipping world (27 year with UPS.) Use your ebay buyer protection first. The shipper needs to file a claim for reimbursement because they paid for shipping and insurance. If they didn't pay for insurance at the the time of shipping they are out not you. Make sure to start a claim with ebay soon as to not lose your rights.:bike:

[Llewellyn]

Update: just checked USPS and it seems that my package has arrived in Australia, although it doesn't say where in Australia!!

[Peter P.]

The seller was contacted by U.S. Postal. Postal sent to the seller PART of the original box which Postal cut out (it was shipped in the trainer's OEM box, with all the OEM packing material) which had the shipping and return address.

Postal states the contents were LOST (a huge item; A FLUID TRAINER!) and the seller has to request a search from Postal HQ in Atlanta.

I don't believe the seller insured through U.S. Postal. eBay only offers seller's insurance if it's purchased when the shipping label is printed-it's an option if you choose to print the shipping label through eBay. It's called ShipCover and it's a 3rd party insurance.

I'm expecting eBay's Buyer Protection Plan will have a lot of loopholes which leave me "unprotected".

Thanks for all the advice.

[AgilisMerlin]

If things turn sour I always call paypal

[shovelhd]

If things turn sour I always call paypal

This. It can take several weeks, but they have always come through for me.

[ultraman6970]

Well the problem is that you did not get the item, period. No matter if the seller tried to reach you or if it was somebody elses fault.

Even if there is a dispute, you did not get the item. He is toasted and lucky for him he insured it because what he has to do is to issue a refund and he has to deal with USPS.

Incredible the item is gone, wonder how well this sucker packed the item. Last week a woman in the post office closed a big box with crap with 2 pieces of tape, one at the top and one at the bottom. Sure before going to the sorting belt that box went wide open.

Send an email to the seller and ask to issue a refund just to make both of you life's easier, and argue that he has to deal with USPS because that's not your problem, you did not get the item and even if its now or later paypal/ebay will you the money back anyways, bad luck for him.

If you are nice as a buyer i would at least give the guy the shipping back (if that's makes you feel better for him.

[e-RICHIE]

So - was this item mailed Parcel Post or not atmo? People have invoked the service in follow-up posts, but Peter hasn't said.

[Peter P.]

So - was this item mailed Parcel Post or not atmo? People have invoked the service in follow-up posts, but Peter hasn't said.

Yes; it was shipped Parcel Post UN-insured because the seller was under the impression that eBay insured the package.

eBay DOESN'T automatically insure a seller's package; they offer 3rd party insurance through their ShipCover program as mentioned in my other post.

I think ultraman6970's suggestion is a good one and I'll do that as a gesture of consolation if this is resolved.

I'm trying to give the seller "breathing room" to come to his own conclusion as to what to do. I've got roughly 3 more weeks to take advantage of eBay's Buyer Protection Plan and gave the seller that date as a deadline so there will be no surprises if I file a claim. He seems pretty upstanding but I can understand how the financial loss could be hard to face.

Basically, what the Buyer Protection Plan does is verify the buyer gets restitution from the seller. They first view e-mail message transactions (through eBay's private message stream) confirming you and the seller made attempts to settle the loss. eBay wants you to hopefully work this out so they DON'T have to get involved. They then verify you received your money back. If for whatever reason the seller doesn't make good in a timely fashion (all explicitly spelled out in the Buyer Protection Program), eBay pays YOU and apparently can dip their hands into the seller's PayPal or credit card account to recover their payment. However else they manage to prevent bad sellers from continuing to sell on eBay is beyond me, however.

I'll certainly post back with the end resolution on this. I'd REALLY love to see where the trainer wound up...

[ultraman6970]

What puzzles me is how the label or part of the box ended up back in his hands. I'm just curious how the guy packed the stuff because i cant even picture the box destroyed in the belts.

Worked at UPS and and many times saw just boxed chewed w/o anything inside or just stuff in the belts w/o a box. So much volume at the end of the year that nobody cares they just toss the boxes and nobody gives a damm but fill up the darn trucks.

After seeing that and coming fro ma 3rd world country you learn quite quick how to pack stuff really well.

Good luck man, sad for the guy he lost the item and the money.

[Louis]

I wonder if it was outright theft, or a cr@ppy packing job, which caused the box to become separated from the contents?

[11.4]

I purchased a used fluid trainer through an individual using a Buy It Now option on eBay. The seller has a very high rating-100% positive feedback for 53 items sold in the last year.

I paid for the trainer through PayPal.

It appears U.S. Postal has lost the trainer somehow; it's 12 days overdue. There is a tracking number I've been able to follow it, but it shows no activity from the date it reached the nearby depot. I don't know whether the seller bought insurance.

I'm trying to plan ahead. It appears I have 45 days from the date payment was made to file a claim with eBay through the Buyer Protection Plan. I'm not sure PayPal offers any protection. I just want to file a claim before any statute of limitations runs out yet give the seller some time to work this out.

Any suggestions on how to proceed? Can I get restitution through eBay? PayPal? Or only from the seller?

I ship a fair number of items and have had a number take far too long by USPS Parcel or International First Class.

That being said, I don't see where eBay requires insurance or tracking. I typically either say I will pay insurance or I offer insurance to the buyer at his/her option. If the seller's listing doesn't include insurance specifically, why expect it to? With a shipping receipt (which with USPS shows the destination zip or country) he's shipped the package. USPS accepted it. I don't know that a buyer who didn't get insurance and didn't pay for it should expect the seller to assume liability. As I said previously, I am specific about insurance and I usually pay for it as part of my overhead cost, but I don't want anyone to assume it's insured or assume I self-insure. Often a buyer wants super-cheap shipping (especially to Australia) and that ups the risk of shipping foul-ups, but the buyer doesn't pay for insurance even if offered the option. It's cheap on the part of the buyer, especially people who want long distance shipping and want to make eBay enforce the loss against the seller. I had a couple instances like this in the past few months and FWIW, eBay sided with me both times, and the items did ultimately arrive (once to Poland, once to Australia) after the whole case was settled. I go out of my way to be gracious to buyers on eBay if they aren't jerks -- I've often just comped them the item if they had delays and it wasn't hugely expensive. But back to my point -- I didn't say I would pay for insurance, I shipped it cheap like you wanted, but you want me to be liable? I do know that if I add $4-5 for insurance and tracking to a flat rate priority package, I get all kinds of grief about it from people who think I'm gouging them. So ... once it's shipped and there's proof of shipment, many/most countries say the seller has fulfilled his legal obligation, and it seems eBay takes that position as well if pushed. Everyone should discuss insurance and tracking and request both. And be willing to pay for both as part of shipping cost.

[slidey]

Now that's an odd turn of events! Hope it works out smoothly for everyone concerned.

The seller was contacted by U.S. Postal. Postal sent to the seller PART of the original box which Postal cut out (it was shipped in the trainer's OEM box, with all the OEM packing material) which had the shipping and return address.

Postal states the contents were LOST (a huge item; A FLUID TRAINER!) and the seller has to request a search from Postal HQ in Atlanta.

I don't believe the seller insured through U.S. Postal. eBay only offers seller's insurance if it's purchased when the shipping label is printed-it's an option if you choose to print the shipping label through eBay. It's called ShipCover and it's a 3rd party insurance.

I'm expecting eBay's Buyer Protection Plan will have a lot of loopholes which leave me "unprotected".

Thanks for all the advice.

[11.4]

Now that's an odd turn of events! Hope it works out smoothly for everyone concerned.

This is actually how the USPS meets the standards required by Congress for contacting the shipper when a package is (usually) completely destroyed or separated from its contents. A bike trainer isn't the most obvious object for theft but it certainly can tear a box apart. There's a point where contents get separated from the box and someone doesn't know what goes together again. So all the USPS can do is send part of the box and hope you concur that it's what you sent. They will often provide reasonable coverage even if no insurance was purchased if you can show it was in the original box, sturdily packaged, and something genuinely happened en route. You have to be nice, and the shipping post office can request a settlement.

[e-RICHIE]

Forgetting about the insurance for a moment, who selected Parcel Post, you or him atmo?

I'll get to the point - Parcel Post is ghetto and I wouldn't use it to send anything. It's either Priority Mail or another courier service (FedEx, etc...).



Yes; it was shipped Parcel Post UN-insured because the seller was under the impression that eBay insured the package.

[Peter P.]

I didn't request insurance or the shipping method; they were both chosen by the seller.

I always viewed insurance as an add-on specified by the seller for no other reason than it protects the seller. As a buyer I expect my shipment to be guaranteed by the seller as most of us do with virtually all mail order shipments. I certainly wouldn't have minded paying insurance if it was specified. It quite frankly never occurred to me to be the buyer's responsibility although I could see the other side of the argument. I'm guessing the courts have already settled this issue, siding with the buyer, which is why eBay has a BUYER protection plan and no free insurance for sellers.

11.4: I never said eBay required insurance; they don't. The do however, offer a guarantee of sorts with their Buyer Protection Plan. This part of what attracts buyers to eBay. As it's written it costs them little and I'll bet we as sellers are not aware of eBay's ability to compel sellers to cover losses even in the absence of insurance. We likely agreed to it in whatever terms of agreement we checked off when we established our eBay accounts.

[e-RICHIE]

I think the eBay buyer or high bidder has the option of choosing a carrier upon checkout. It's not set in stone that you accept the seller's method of transport unless, maybe, he says Parcel Post (or similar) only.

Re the coverage -it's always for the buyer. Even now, when I ship parts, apparel, and bicycles daily, the cartons are insured. But my risk and involvement ends when the carrier of choice picks up. From that point forward, the liability rests with the carrier or the buyer. The shipper's job ends at the door. Of course, a courteous person would stay in touch, furnish tracking numbers and screen shots of updates in real time. But the safe delivery of goods is no longer his responsibility.

Good luck there.

I didn't request insurance or the shipping method; they were both chosen by the seller.

I always viewed insurance as an add-on specified by the seller for no other reason than it protects the seller. As a buyer I expect my shipment to be guaranteed by the seller as most of us do with virtually all mail order shipments. I certainly wouldn't have minded paying insurance if it was specified. It quite frankly never occurred to me to be the buyer's responsibility although I could see the other side of the argument. I'm guessing the courts have already settled this issue, siding with the buyer, which is why eBay has a BUYER protection plan and no free insurance for sellers.

11.4: I never said eBay required insurance; they don't. The do however, offer a guarantee of sorts with their Buyer Protection Plan. This part of what attracts buyers to eBay. As it's written it costs them little and I'll bet we as sellers are not aware of eBay's ability to compel sellers to cover losses even in the absence of insurance. We likely agreed to it in whatever terms of agreement we checked off when we established our eBay accounts.

[LouDeeter]

[QUOTE=e-RICHIE;1264804] But my risk and involvement ends when the carrier of choice picks up. From that point forward, the liability rests with the carrier or the buyer. The shipper's job ends at the door.

Considering that the buyer can't place the claim with the shipper, that is the seller's responsibility, I don't understand how you can say that your involvement ends when the carrier picks up. The only case that makes sense is when the buyer makes the shipping arrangements and sends you a shipping label. In my case, I take responsibility to get the buyer his goods, period. He sent me his money to buy something, not to buy a tracking number.

[e-RICHIE]

Considering that the buyer can't place the claim with the shipper, that is the seller's responsibility, I don't understand how you can say that your involvement ends when the carrier picks up. The only case that makes sense is when the buyer makes the shipping arrangements and sends you a shipping label. In my case, I take responsibility to get the buyer his goods, period. He sent me his money to buy something, not to buy a tracking number.

When there is an issue of missing or broken parts, it's the recipient who deals with the carrier and places a claim. The seller/shipper hires them (the carrier) on behalf of the buyer who agrees, by paying, to use the carrier and the terms. I know it all sounds cold and all business-like, but there ya' have it.

[LouDeeter]

You're using the concept/practice of FOB, or Free On-Board, where the responsibility passes from the seller to the buyer upon loading at the point of departure. That makes sense when you are selling things like boatloads or boxcar loads of coal, but it doesn't make sense to me when selling bicycle parts or frames. The buyer has an expectation of receiving the goods at his place in the condition described. In all cases where I have had a problem with the shipper, I've just refunded the buyer and dealt with the shipper myself. Same thing has happened several times to me from buying things. The seller refunds me and deals with the claim. Most of the time, UPS or FedEx will challenge the way an item was packed, which was the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer. I've never had a case where UPS, FedEx or USPS has allowed the buyer to place the claim. I did have one case where FedEx showed up at my house with an obviously damaged package and they had me open it, verify the damage, then FedEx took the responsibility to deal with the shipper--not with me.

[e-RICHIE]

Business is business atmo.

You're using the concept/practice of FOB, or Free On-Board, where the responsibility passes from the seller to the buyer upon loading at the point of departure. That makes sense when you are selling things like boatloads or boxcar loads of coal, but it doesn't make sense to me when selling bicycle parts or frames. The buyer has an expectation of receiving the goods at his place in the condition described. <cut>

[11.4]

You're using the concept/practice of FOB, or Free On-Board, where the responsibility passes from the seller to the buyer upon loading at the point of departure. That makes sense when you are selling things like boatloads or boxcar loads of coal, but it doesn't make sense to me when selling bicycle parts or frames. The buyer has an expectation of receiving the goods at his place in the condition described. In all cases where I have had a problem with the shipper, I've just refunded the buyer and dealt with the shipper myself. Same thing has happened several times to me from buying things. The seller refunds me and deals with the claim. Most of the time, UPS or FedEx will challenge the way an item was packed, which was the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer. I've never had a case where UPS, FedEx or USPS has allowed the buyer to place the claim. I did have one case where FedEx showed up at my house with an obviously damaged package and they had me open it, verify the damage, then FedEx took the responsibility to deal with the shipper--not with me.

The point for buyers to be aware of (and I'm a buyer as often as a seller on the 'Bay) is that there is no difference between a boatload and a shoebox. As I said, I will be very gracious and often comp someone who had problems, but the legal liability lies as Richard says. The shipper is the one who initiates a claim with the carrier (because he usually has the paperwork and because he is closer to the originating departure terminal, which always has the responsibility for tracking the item) but that isn't the same as liability. Liability transfers to the buyer and it is the buyer's responsibility to self-insure or to ensure that insurance is provided, including paying for it if necessary.

This isn't about customer service. It's about liability. But when you have a situation like this where someone has to lose, why should it be the shipper? He did his thing. The buyer obviously didn't want to pay shipping by a more reliable method.

And the buyer protection plan at eBay does not say anything about insurance or who has responsibility for insurance. If you ship a package as a seller and don't keep the receipt, you can be held liable. If you can show a shipping receipt (even just the USPS receipt with the right zip and weight), eBay won't hold you responsible unless you have a bad record on eBay, and even then they will cut you off before making you pay. They don't have that legal right, by law or under your user agreement.

Not trying to be a hardass. Just people should understand clearly how it works. Once again, as a seller I always think customer service first. But if I'd shipped it by the method the buyer wanted and it was going to Australia, and the buyer didn't want insurance and/or didn't read the conditions of shipping, it's really his problem. That's where eBay will come out unless there are facts not disclosed here.

Basic question. What did the seller do wrong? Why should he be liable?

[e-RICHIE]

Basic question. What did the seller do wrong? Why should he be liable?

According to my opinion?
He did one and only one thing wrong - he preselected Parcel Post.
As a buyer, I would never agree to a sale for something for which Parcel Post was the delivery method.

[cash05458]

I am a mailman so I can add a couple of things I guess: first off, parcel post goes pretty much the same way as all packages...if priority package would be a put on a plane so would the parcel...so it all goes same way...problem is once it hits the sorting facility...packages are then prioritized on their class..so parcel would be sorted last and during a time like xmas they are getting hammered with priority packages so it could sit there abit...normally it shouldn't...once it gets outta the sorting facility and to the post office it would go out that day with everything else...nothing is allowed to stay in office ect...

second, any insurance claims are responsibility of seller/ not buyer...buyer can't make any claims with shipper as he didn't pay for the original transaction ect...

Lastly, our tracking is quite frankly THE worst of all the big carriers...I know that not only as a mailman but as someone who gets packages from all the carriers...for the last few years they send out constant memos to carriers on the street about the importance of scans...NEVER miss a a scan...miss a few and you could lose a job you have been doing for 20 years and pension...the whole 9 yards...so they are putting scan labels on everything...even third class crap junk comes in sometimes needing a delivery scan...the labels get torn up, bashed, cut...you name it...can't read the numbers to even manually scan them *big pain in the ass)...yet at the same time, via most of the other points in the system, at facilities, whatever...the scanning is almost non existent...I am a member of the Union and have spoken to management about all this...as have many...sure, make the tracking system better we say...absolutely as ours is the worst and let's make it better for our customers who WE see everyday...to fix it then scan the packages all along the way as other carriers do...set some uniformity regs on where scans are so they don't get hacked and unreadable ect...update your scans ect more often than every 24 hours...anything would be better...and all of that falls on deaf ears...to do so would cost a tiny fraction more and pretty much anymore, the main job of upper management at usps is to undermine service for the public at every step...this is why they want to close as many sorting facilities as they can and thus rerouting mail that would be a straight shot hundred of miles away and back again...

[11.4]

second, any insurance claims are responsibility of seller/ not buyer...buyer can't make any claims with shipper as he didn't pay for the original transaction ect...

To be clear, this addresses who files the claim but tariff conventions say the actual liability transferred to the buyer (I believe I cited it accurately previously as "The shipper is the one who initiates a claim with the carrier (because he usually has the paperwork and because he is closer to the originating departure terminal, which always has the responsibility for tracking the item) but that isn't the same as liability. Liability transfers to the buyer and it is the buyer's responsibility to self-insure or to ensure that insurance is provided, including paying for it if necessary") Because of the multiplicity of governmental entities involved in shipping by postal service overseas, there's a postal services act that simplifies the administration for post offices in different countries, and by default defines the administration of claims for domestic mail in the US. This is all different from UPS, Fedex, etc. where one party has custody from beginning to end, regardless of international borders. However, administration of claims isn't the same as liability. The only point I was trying to make here, as Richard also makes, is that the tariff provides that the liability transfers to the buyer at the moment it's accepted by the shipping service (whether USPS, Fedex, or anyone else governed by the same international conventions). This is all part of basic business law. In a claim, the international conventions govern who is liable simply so there are rules. This doesn't mean a buyer couldn't bring a civil suit against a seller for negligence in failing to provide insurance that was agreed to (either paid by seller or that was paid to the seller by the buyer), but that gets pretty complicated and potentially expensive for something short of an expensive bike or frameset or the like.

Moral? Know the rules and always, always, be specific with regard to insurance and tracking.

To the OP: I've been there myself and learned this the hard way. I feel for you. This isn't so much from my experience as a seller as from my experience as a buyer. I lost several thousand dollars to a shoddy packing job of camera equipment shipped internationally -- it arrived but was damaged, and I had no claim on the seller. eBay tries to make the buyer feel safe, but in the end the international shipping tariff conventions govern it all, and they don't help you after the package is accepted by the shipping service. I just made sure this didn't happen again to me, and if you ever buy from me, I always ask you for insurance coverage costs or I make sure I pay for it. I do have plenty of people ask for Parcel Post or International First Class, but Richard is right -- those are horrible ways to ship.

[biker72]

I've never had a case where UPS, FedEx or USPS has allowed the buyer to place the claim.
+1
In my 5 years of shipping/receiving jobs this has been my experience.

[Peter P.]

(I promised an update on my eBay purchase of a trainer. I mistakenly posted this on V-Salon so I apologize if you must suffer through it again here.)

The seller filed a claim with U.S. Postal, but the seller had the attitude that the lost item wasn't his problem and he wasn't going to refund my money. I got the impression the seller thought eBay was going to cover his loss, as if eBay insured the trainer.

So, I invoked eBay's Buyer Protection Program. I had to "escalate" my claim (eBay's term and procedure) because the seller was giving me the cold shoulder/wasn't budging. This is sort of a last ditch process at resolving any problems with the seller.

Ebay sent me an e-mail within 24 hours of escalating my claim. Their e-mail said, " "We" issued you a full refund...", so that implies eBay paid me for the loss vs. the seller, right?

Well, in the Comments section of their findings they said their justification for finding in my favor was "(eBay) didn't receive valid tracking information from the seller." This sounds odd because I had a valid tracking number and was able to watch the package's progress until it was lost. Perhaps eBay meant the tracking number was invalid because it didn't show the package delivered?

So I said above that eBay claimed THEY issued me a refund. I assume the money came out of their pocket. When I checked my PayPal account, it shows the refund coming from THE SELLER.

My question is, did eBay pressure the seller to refund the money or did they pay out of their own pocket? What was their leverage? Is eBay able to reach into the PayPal or credit card of sellers to make them pay up?

Of course I'd also like to know so I could rub it in the face of the seller (I wouldn't really do that). My opinion is, the exchange of money for an item or service is an implied contract. The seller is responsible to me receiving the trainer even though he doesn't perform the actual shipping. And the seller is responsible for insuring the item even if he passes the cost onto the buyer, because the seller purchases the insurance from the shipper at the time the item is shipped.

It's the seller's problem to deal with the shipper of the lost item, unfortunately. Had it been insured (and I gladly would have paid-and who knows; I paid flat rate shipping. There may have been money left over to pay for insurance...) there would have been no problem.

In the end, eBay's Buyer Protection Program worked for me. One tip: Should this happen to you, pay CLOSE attention to the statute of limitations for filing under the program. If you pass the deadline you could be SOL.

[oldguy00]

Ebay owns paypal. They found in your favor, and likely went ahead and refunded your money from the seller's paypal account (either from his paypal balance, or whatever bank account or credit card he has linked to his account).

[Scuzzer]

The seller is responsible to me receiving the trainer even though he doesn't perform the actual shipping. And the seller is responsible for insuring the item even if he passes the cost onto the buyer, because the seller purchases the insurance from the shipper at the time the item is shipped.

This is correct. You never have to purchase insurance and the seller is responsible to get the item to you in "as-described" condition.

[tuscanyswe]

Ebay owns paypal. They found in your favor, and likely went ahead and refunded your money from the seller's paypal account (either from his paypal balance, or whatever bank account or credit card he has linked to his account).

They can charge your credit card? I thought they could only take founds if you had it in your pp account or a linked bank account. Id be suprised if paypal could actually take it out of your cc without you approving that charge first.
Do you know for a fact they can do that?

[Dave B]

They can charge your credit card? I thought they could only take founds if you had it in your pp account or a linked bank account. Id be suprised if paypal could actually take it out of your cc without you approving that charge first.
Do you know for a fact they can do that?

I think you are correct. They put a weird hold on your account. I don't think they can take money out of your account or from a credit card unless there is

[11.4]

This is correct. You never have to purchase insurance and the seller is responsible to get the item to you in "as-described" condition.

Actually, if the seller says that buyer pays insurance and buyer doesn't, seller is off the hook.

What is overwhelmingly the case on eBay is that Paypal goes with the party with the most/best history. They look at the circumstances and make it go. If you had been working with someone with huge and uniformly positive feedback, you probably wouldn't have gotten your money. Just because your Paypal account says the money came from the seller's account doesn't mean it really did, by the way. Paypal may just list it that way because they ante'd up the money to make you happy -- if you're a good eBay/Paypal customer. And my guess is that the seller was largely silent -- if he'd been aggressive about it, eBay would have listened. International tariff conventions are what they are -- seller did not have the responsibility after the item was shipped.

[10-4]

Actually, if the seller says that buyer pays insurance and buyer doesn't, seller is off the hook.

What is overwhelmingly the case on eBay is that Paypal goes with the party with the most/best history. They look at the circumstances and make it go. If you had been working with someone with huge and uniformly positive feedback, you probably wouldn't have gotten your money. Just because your Paypal account says the money came from the seller's account doesn't mean it really did, by the way. Paypal may just list it that way because they ante'd up the money to make you happy -- if you're a good eBay/Paypal customer. And my guess is that the seller was largely silent -- if he'd been aggressive about it, eBay would have listened. International tariff conventions are what they are -- seller did not have the responsibility after the item was shipped.

Neither of these things is true. When dealing with eBay transactions, it's the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer in as-described condition. That doesn't matter if insurance was paid for by the buyer or not. If the package is over $250 and the seller can't provide a signature for the package being delivered, the seller is on the hook. Trust me, I was scammed and learned the hard way.

The seller's responsibility in a transaction doesn't end when they drop the box off, they are responsible for the package being delivered. And since the seller is the customer of UPS/USPS/FedEx, they are the ones the shipped will deal with.

Whether this is intuitive, or makes sense, I'm not arguing. But, I've been involved with lost packages on eBay/PayPal transactions a couple of times, and spent a lot of time on the phone with eBay/PayPal working through them, I know how it actually gets handled.

[11.4]

Neither of these things is true. When dealing with eBay transactions, it's the sellers responsibility to get the item to the buyer in as-described condition. That doesn't matter if insurance was paid for by the buyer or not. If the package is over $250 and the seller can't provide a signature for the package being delivered, the seller is on the hook. Trust me, I was scammed and learned the hard way.

The seller's responsibility in a transaction doesn't end when they drop the box off, they are responsible for the package being delivered. And since the seller is the customer of UPS/USPS/FedEx, they are the ones the shipped will deal with.

Whether this is intuitive, or makes sense, I'm not arguing. But, I've been involved with lost packages on eBay/PayPal transactions a couple of times, and spent a lot of time on the phone with eBay/PayPal working through them, I know how it actually gets handled.

10-4, let's just say, for the benefit of everyone on this forum, that this particular one worked out this way for the OP. I've had some work out in my favor in the opposite direction. I have never, ever, heard a $250 limit in any discussion with eBay or Paypal. And you say the OP was scammed, but the seller did ship and OP had shipping info to show that he did -- and the OP didn't even start this thread calling it like a scam.

Anyone who wants to depend on one anecdotal situation should go read the international tariff convention. If the seller had quoted it, eBay would have been required by law to stand by it, and buyer would have been out of luck. eBay does respond to those who are most vociferous, sometimes from their own funds and sometimes from those of the other person in the transaction. The OP is well known on this forum and if his eBay rep is as good as on this forum, eBay would likely stand by him. Further, he said that the seller didn't respond with tracking info, which was pretty much the death knell for the seller's chances.

10-4, I'm not trying to disagree about this. It's just an important point for people to realize. When you read above in this thread that Richard Sachs and others have had the same experience as I, and others the same as you, it should be clear that there isn't a firm policy and that there do exist international agreements (which Richard also is familiar with) that define the ultimate rights of the two parties involved. I'm glad the money was refunded. Perhaps the biggest lesson here, as Richard said also, is that when you try to save money by using parcel post, you don't often like the results.

[11.4]

(I promised an update on my eBay purchase of a trainer. I mistakenly posted this on V-Salon so I apologize if you must suffer through it again here.)

The seller filed a claim with U.S. Postal, but the seller had the attitude that the lost item wasn't his problem and he wasn't going to refund my money. I got the impression the seller thought eBay was going to cover his loss, as if eBay insured the trainer.

So, I invoked eBay's Buyer Protection Program. I had to "escalate" my claim (eBay's term and procedure) because the seller was giving me the cold shoulder/wasn't budging. This is sort of a last ditch process at resolving any problems with the seller.

Ebay sent me an e-mail within 24 hours of escalating my claim. Their e-mail said, " "We" issued you a full refund...", so that implies eBay paid me for the loss vs. the seller, right?

Well, in the Comments section of their findings they said their justification for finding in my favor was "(eBay) didn't receive valid tracking information from the seller." This sounds odd because I had a valid tracking number and was able to watch the package's progress until it was lost. Perhaps eBay meant the tracking number was invalid because it didn't show the package delivered?

So I said above that eBay claimed THEY issued me a refund. I assume the money came out of their pocket. When I checked my PayPal account, it shows the refund coming from THE SELLER.

My question is, did eBay pressure the seller to refund the money or did they pay out of their own pocket? What was their leverage? Is eBay able to reach into the PayPal or credit card of sellers to make them pay up?

Of course I'd also like to know so I could rub it in the face of the seller (I wouldn't really do that). My opinion is, the exchange of money for an item or service is an implied contract. The seller is responsible to me receiving the trainer even though he doesn't perform the actual shipping. And the seller is responsible for insuring the item even if he passes the cost onto the buyer, because the seller purchases the insurance from the shipper at the time the item is shipped.

It's the seller's problem to deal with the shipper of the lost item, unfortunately. Had it been insured (and I gladly would have paid-and who knows; I paid flat rate shipping. There may have been money left over to pay for insurance...) there would have been no problem.

In the end, eBay's Buyer Protection Program worked for me. One tip: Should this happen to you, pay CLOSE attention to the statute of limitations for filing under the program. If you pass the deadline you could be SOL.

It appears you were persistent, the seller wasn't communicative, and he apparently didn't send eBay the tracking info, so at that point he'd lost in eBay's eyes. No telling whether funds really left his account, but it's entirely likely because of his responsiveness (or lack of). However, that's not what international law provides for, and even eBay policy has to conform to that law.

When you say the seller had an implied contract to deliver the item, he actually had an implied contract to ship the item. Once handed to the shipper, the shipper had responsibility, and any financial liability was a question of insurance. That's what the international tariff conventions all say, and virtually every country in the world has to abide by them. eBay cannot set policies that violate those conventions either. That doesn't mean they don't play a little loose at times or figure that the seller isn't going to complain if they take his funds and return them to you, but specifically on a shipping dispute where there was proof of shipping, eBay didn't have much of a leg to stand on.

eBay's policies are focused mostly on whether the item was as described, was ever shipped, etc. Those issues don't fall under the tariff conventions and in those instances, they do have the right to seize and refund eBay payments, and your eBay contract lets them go into any account you have listed on your profile to find those funds (a reason why no one should have more bank or credit card accounts than are really necessary).

One note, repeated again: Here the seller does have to initiate the claim because he has the documentation and the claim is originated at the shipping location, but the shipper takes responsibility from there on. Who has to take care of filing the claim and who has liability for the claim are not the same. That's what 10-4 keeps misunderstanding. e-Richie got it right. The tariff conventions transfer ownership and liability to the recipient as soon as the package is delivered to the shipper. That means that it was the seller's money the instant the package shipped. It's a separate matter if you paid for insurance and didn't get it -- that's fraud. It's also a separate matter if the seller won't file the claim for you -- he does have that responsibility. But the shipper has responsibility for delivering it to you within the limits of any coverage, and you actually owned the item at the moment it was lost. That's how a court would have defined liability. A court wouldn't have let eBay withdraw from the seller's account and pay you back in the situation you described here.

Congratulations on getting your money back.

[10-4]

10-4, let's just say, for the benefit of everyone on this forum, that this particular one worked out this way for the OP. I've had some work out in my favor in the opposite direction. I have never, ever, heard a $250 limit in any discussion with eBay or Paypal. And you say the OP was scammed, but the seller did ship and OP had shipping info to show that he did -- and the OP didn't even start this thread calling it like a scam.

Anyone who wants to depend on one anecdotal situation should go read the international tariff convention. If the seller had quoted it, eBay would have been required by law to stand by it, and buyer would have been out of luck. eBay does respond to those who are most vociferous, sometimes from their own funds and sometimes from those of the other person in the transaction. The OP is well known on this forum and if his eBay rep is as good as on this forum, eBay would likely stand by him. Further, he said that the seller didn't respond with tracking info, which was pretty much the death knell for the seller's chances.

10-4, I'm not trying to disagree about this. It's just an important point for people to realize. When you read above in this thread that Richard Sachs and others have had the same experience as I, and others the same as you, it should be clear that there isn't a firm policy and that there do exist international agreements (which Richard also is familiar with) that define the ultimate rights of the two parties involved. I'm glad the money was refunded. Perhaps the biggest lesson here, as Richard said also, is that when you try to save money by using parcel post, you don't often like the results.

Actually, I never said the OP was scammed, I said I WAS SCAMMED. The scam that was run on me is what taught me the rules on eBay shipping and seller protection cases.

Now, if you want some info on the $250 limit requiring signatures, look here (http://reviews.ebay.com/Delivery-Confirmation-vs-Signature-Confirmation-Sellers?ugid=10000000004063647) or here (http://pages.ebay.com/paypal/seller/index.html).

Of course, just because you didn't know about the signature requirements of packages over $250 doesn't mean they don't exist.

And if I recall, the OP said he DID have tracking information, no?

[10-4]

One note, repeated again: Here the seller does have to initiate the claim because he has the documentation and the claim is originated at the shipping location, but the shipper takes responsibility from there on. Who has to take care of filing the claim and who has liability for the claim are not the same. That's what 10-4 keeps misunderstanding. e-Richie got it right. The tariff conventions transfer ownership and liability to the recipient as soon as the package is delivered to the shipper. That means that it was the seller's money the instant the package shipped. It's a separate matter if you paid for insurance and didn't get it -- that's fraud. It's also a separate matter if the seller won't file the claim for you -- he does have that responsibility. But the shipper has responsibility for delivering it to you within the limits of any coverage, and you actually owned the item at the moment it was lost. That's how a court would have defined liability. A court wouldn't have let eBay withdraw from the seller's account and pay you back in the situation you described here.

Congratulations on getting your money back.

Here's the thing: the buyer owned the item as soon as he payed, correct? Now, I agree it's the shippers responsibility to ensure a safe delivery to the buyer once they take possession, but until it arrives to the buyer eBay places the responsibility in the hands of the seller since the seller has the contract with the shipper.

As for the OP, he never had physical possession of the package, which means the responsibility falls on the seller/shipper. Since the seller should have insurance (I can't remember what the basic level of insurance offered by UPS is, but I would guess USPS SHOULD (that's a big should, there) have some basic coverage, I think UPS is something around $100 or so) the onus falls onto the seller to file a claim with the shipper since the seller would own the rights to the insurance claim.

[11.4]

Here's the thing: the buyer owned the item as soon as he payed, correct? Now, I agree it's the shippers responsibility to ensure a safe delivery to the buyer once they take possession, but until it arrives to the buyer eBay places the responsibility in the hands of the seller since the seller has the contract with the shipper.

As for the OP, he never had physical possession of the package, which means the responsibility falls on the seller/shipper. Since the seller should have insurance (I can't remember what the basic level of insurance offered by UPS is, but I would guess USPS SHOULD (that's a big should, there) have some basic coverage, I think UPS is something around $100 or so) the onus falls onto the seller to file a claim with the shipper since the seller would own the rights to the insurance claim.

This debate isn't getting anywhere. Anyone who is shipping anything should just do your homework, keep all records, be sure there is insurance to cover the loss, and you should be fine.

To the above,

(1) The buyer doesn't own the item as soon as he's paid. Only when it's shipped;
(2) eBay can say who should have responsibility but tariff conventions govern this and when pushed, eBay caves in. I can assure you because I've shipped a lot and had it done to and by me. In PP's case here, he got his money because the seller didn't protect his interests.
(3) One can't say that the seller "should" have some insurance, because the buyer chose a low-grade shipping method. There actually is usually a nominal amount of insurance coverage (a product of the tariff conventions, btw), but not enough for most purposes.
(4) The seller has to file the claim but he doesn't have the liability. He did what he needed to by tariff convention and by eBay standards -- he shipped by the method requested and there was proof he did it. Again, if he had communicated well and objected strongly, eBay would only have repaid the buyer out of their own pocket, if at all. eBay had no formal right on a documented shipping matter to charge the seller -- they violated international agreements with that action. They can choose to do it if the seller doesn't object, because it gives them greater customer satisfaction for the OP. Again, we don't know enough about the relative ratings of buyer and seller, but knowing PP, I'd side with him as the customer I'd want to keep happy.

Let's let this end. The warnings to everyone should be (a) don't use parcel post and (b) get insurance. Then none of this has to happen.

[Peter P.]

Thanks to all for the vigorous and insightful opinions. I by no means am trying to close this discussion, only to clarify a couple things as the OP and buyer.

I never specified a shipping method nor insurance. That was the seller's choice. In fact, for most eBay sales, isn't it the seller that lists the shipping method? Unless the buyer specifies otherwise after the sale, buyers abide by the sellers choices, no?

I never considered myself scammed, just stonewalled by a seller who had sold roughly 50 items in the last 12 months with a 100% rating. MY history is much smaller; I sold 1 item in the past 12 months and a total of 9 items in the past 6 years. I'd be curious how much that weighed in eBay's decision as 11.4 suggested.

What I DO wonder is if eBay considered the quality of the dialogue between the seller and I during our "negotiation" as time dragged on and I began to suggest to the seller that first a "settlement" then a refund should be considered. During the Buyer Protection Program process, eBay wants to see the 2 parties trying to work out a solution and specifically advises they will access the eBay messages between the 2 parties to determine the status and likelihood of an agreement between the seller and buyer.

I tried to first hint at a refund by suggesting we come to a "settlement" but the seller explicitly ignored the mention and instead focused on noting that he had fulfilled his obligations under eBay's SELLER'S Protection Program by providing a tracking number. I believe eBay had access to that tracking number because it was supplied to me by eBay when the item was initially shipped.

What I would have expected from the seller was, if he knew eBay would cover his loss and pay me back from eBay funds, that he would have said early on in the process something like, "Go through the Buyer Protection Program. You'll get your money back through them." or something like that.

Instead, his focus was on he fulfilled his responsibility and shipped the item-he would say nothing else, not even acknowledge me when I suggested negotiating a settlement, then a refund. I get the impression he was unaware eBay could reach into his wallet to pay me back. I can't imagine eBay would even think of paying me from their own pocket; they're not in the business of covering their members' losses. In fact, I would expect they would work hard not to do so. And I also suspect many eBay members have likely forgot or are unaware that we probably supplied credit card numbers as "collateral" when we signed up for eBay and granted eBay access to those accounts in instances such as disputed transactions. If eBay truly covered my loss then it sure seems like insurance to me.

The talk about tariff conventions clearly has me confused. 11.4 makes it sound as if once the item is shipped, the seller can ignore me even though he purchased the shipping contract and holds the receipt. If the buyer is truly the one on the hook at this point, how are they supposed to file a claim when they're not in possession of the receipts? If it was merely a question of the seller sending me the receipts and saying "Here; you deal with it.", then I would have expected the seller to quickly abandon any responsibility for the missing trainer and just mail me the invoice so I could file a claim so he could be relieved of any work.

I also have to believe eBay is well aware of tariff conventions and their lawyers have made sure eBay is in full compliance while still using their protection programs.

I'm operating under the assumption that the exchange of money for shipping is an implied contract between the seller and the shipper, and the shipper has the responsibility to "deliver" the service to the seller, in this case the successful shipping of the trainer. At the same time, the seller has an obligation to provide the buyer with the product as an implied contract once the seller has been paid.

While the quality of the shipping service could be questioned, I don't feel it's part of the issue here. What IS is what happens once the buyer doesn't receive his item.

Thanks for keeping the discussions civil. That's why I enjoy this forum.

[cachagua]

Another thing I've heard -- perhaps someone can confirm this for me? -- is that when eBay "refunds" a buyer out of the seller's PayPal account, they're not so much taking money *from* that person as simply not paying them -- because they sit on the buyer's payment to the seller until the buyer gives feedback.

So I'm told. Never sold anything on eBay myself. But y'all who have can tell me if this is true?

[sc53]

No that's not true. Nobody is waiting on feedback to release you your money. When buyer pays via PayPal, his PP account/CC/bank account gets debited right away. Then, 2 or 3 days later, the money shows up in your PP or checking account. Feedback has nothing to do with it. Also, I am sure eBay did not refund Peter's money. They debited the sellers PP account, reaching back into what accounts he had backing up his PP account. Ebay does not insure or refund anybody anything.

[yngpunk]

No that's not true. Nobody is waiting on feedback to release you your money. When buyer pays via PayPal, his PP account/CC/bank account gets debited right away. Then, 2 or 3 days later, the money shows up in your PP or checking account. Feedback has nothing to do with it. Also, I am sure eBay did not refund Peter's money. They debited the sellers PP account, reaching back into what accounts he had backing up his PP account. Ebay does not insure or refund anybody anything.

Actually, leaving positive feedback does help provide your money faster. Depending on your selling history (I'd imagine those super sellers get their money faster), ebay/paypal will put a hold on the money until it receives confirmation that either the seller has left positive feedback or that it has been received (you need to enter shipping information on ebay for this feature, and the ebay systems checks a couple of times a day for delivery updates). The lack of trackable shipping information can delay paypal from releasing your money for several weeks, however, once positive feedback is received, ebay assumes that the transaction won't be disputed and releases your funds.

Hope this helps.

[Ralph]

When I recieve PayPal funds from a sale, one minute later I can transfer the money to my bank account. Paypal has never held my money. Not sure what you are talking about. However, I am a varified PayPal customer, and my PayPal account is "back ed up" by a Visa card. I transfer cash from PayPal to a linked checking account, but buy things, if no cash in PayPal account, with PayPal that hits my linked Visa. I imagine they could take the money back fom me if necessary. I probably agreed to that somewhere along the way. Just like your local bank can do if necessary.

PayPal is not an evil company. They are just an Internet bank, tied in with receiving and paying E bay purchases. Most all of their policies seem logical to me. It's just business.

[yngpunk]

FYI:

When you sell an item and the buyer pays through PayPal, the funds may be pending in your PayPal account for a period of time before the funds become available. This may be as little as 3 days after the buyer receives the item, but can be up to 21 days. This is to help encourage fast shipping and ensure customer satisfaction.

There are several reasons you might not have immediate access to funds. Some of the most common reasons are:

You have a limited selling history.

You have a Below Standard rating in your Seller Dashboard.

Your account has been reinstated following an account restriction or suspension. Find out more about access to your funds.

If you're a new or Below Standard seller
While you're establishing a successful selling history on eBay, funds from your sales will be pending in your PayPal account for a period of time.

Follow good shipping practices to help access your funds from each sale sooner:

Funds will be available 3 days after we can confirm the item was delivered when you use eBay or PayPal to print labels or upload tracking information from UPS, USPS, or FedEx.

If we don't have tracking information, but you mark the item as shipped and we can calculate a delivery date, your money should be available 7 days after your latest estimated delivery date.

If we don't have tracking information, and you don't mark the item as shipped, or we can't calculate a delivery date (for example, if the item was shipped internationally), the funds should be available 21 days after the buyer pays.
Note: In some cases, such as international shipments, we can't calculate a delivery date or confirm delivery. It may also take longer to get your funds if your buyer reports a problem.

New seller status ends once you've met all the following criteria:

It's been more than 90 days since your first successful sale.

You've completed more than 25 domestic sales transactions.

You have more than $250.00 in total sales.

Other reasons funds may not be available
Even if you aren't a new or Below Standard seller, funds may be temporarily set aside in your PayPal account if an eBay Buyer Protection case, PayPal claim, or PayPal dispute is opened. Funds may also be temporarily set aside if a credit card chargeback is received or other reversal is initiated.

In those cases, funds for that sale are not available until the seller resolves the issue, or the case is escalated and found in the seller's favor.

If the seller does not resolve the issue and is found responsible, eBay or PayPal will refund the buyer's payment.

If your account was previously suspended or restricted, for a 90-day period there may also be a delay of up to 21 days before your funds will be available. Find out more about access to your funds.

Learn more about other reasons funds may not be available.

Using pending funds to pay for shipping
If you print shipping labels on eBay (USPS domestic or First Class international), up to $15.00 of your buyer's funds will be available immediately to cover shipping costs for any order less than $50.00. For any order with a total cost that exceeds $50.00, up to 30% of the funds from your buyer will be available immediately to cover shipping costs. If you print shipping labels on PayPal and select USPS postage, you'll need to pay for shipping when you print the label but the reimbursement will be deposited back to your PayPal account within 24 hours. Funds from your buyer won't be made available in advance to cover shipping costs for items sent through UPS or Canada Post.

[tele]

Peter

I had a similar issue last year but I was the seller. Sold a Wii game and sent Priority Mail but not insured. Tracking # didnt show much info and after a week I went to my local post office and the postmistresses (?) tracked it to the huge distribution center in ATL. She basically told me it was lost and gone. She put a search on the item but said it never finds the missing item. For more expensive items Fedex seems to be the way to go as budget cuts have the USPS all twisted.

I refunded the buyer's $$ and chalked it up to doing business with ebay and USPS.

Good luck Peter!

Kevin

[christian]

the huge distribution center in ATL.I once mailed myself a pair of Telemark boots from Montana to my house in NY.

They never showed up and a bit of research determined that they too ended up at the dead letter office in ATL.

And then, one day, about 7 months later, they were on my porch. The box looked like it'd been attacked by feral pigs, but the boots were unscathed. I have no idea what happened. The address on the box was clear as day.

Only thing the USPS has ever "lost" for me. And I like to think they weren't lost. Just on sabbatical.

Other than that, the 1000s of items I've sent by the mail have always arrived. Knock on wood and all that.

[cachagua]

...New seller status ends once you've met all the following criteria:

It's been more than 90 days since your first successful sale.

You've completed more than 25 domestic sales transactions.

You have more than $250.00 in total sales...



I have a few things I've been thinking someone might want, Serotta frames, American Classic wheels, old Campy hubset, ...but not 25. Well, they're metal, I guess they can go in recycling.