Tubular users question about glue

[ultraman6970]

Ok sure everybody uses vittoria or continental (or any other brand) glue in here, people like potato sure use the big ass can of glue but the majority of people here use the 5 grams tube that with luck and being quite cheap could be used for 2 or 3 tubulars.

The cost of that is about 3 to 8 bucks depending on the store and place, well now my question is... why to spend that money on this when 3m is manufacturing a tube of 147 grams of the same stuff for like 8 bucks???

3M Fast Tack Trim Adhesive can be found in some regular car parts places.

Just a thought.

[thegunner]

are you sure they're chemically identical? i dunno, it's only a few bucks... i'd rather buy the one that's guaranteed to work with what i'm doing...

[shovelhd]

I used to use Fast Tack back in the day. I found it would dissolve the factory base tape adhesive, enough so when you removed the tire, sometimes the base tape would be stuck to the rim.

YMMV.

[Z3c]

Use of Fast Tack was big years ago when metal rims were the norm. Fell out of favor due to concerns about using it with carbon rims due to the amount of basetap & residue and not being able to use metal devices for removal.

[ultraman6970]

THis is an interesting comment... thanks.

I used to use Fast Tack back in the day. I found it would dissolve the factory base tape adhesive, enough so when you removed the tire, sometimes the base tape would be stuck to the rim.

YMMV.

[carpediemracing]

I use a tube of glue a tire. Sometimes I have some left over, like if I'm regluing a tire to reassure myself of the glue job (typically after 2 years or so, or if moving a front tire to a rear wheel).

I don't have any old tubes of red glue left but those seemed heavier, maybe 2-3x heavier. Maybe I'm just imagining things. I think I got 2 tires out of those - if I saw little red bubbles coming out the edges all around the tire then I did a good job.

Gluing tires properly is absolutely critical for the safety of the bike. If you use too little glue it's an absolute mortal sin, maybe along the lines of tightening your stem bolts on your carbon bar with a 3/4" drive 2 foot long torque wrench or using an 600 ft-lb impact wrench to snug up your 100g uber lightweight seat post.

Gluing tires, at least how I do it - if I don't take pictures and stuff it takes about 15-30 minutes. Earlier this year I glued a tire before going to the hospital to join my wife who was being induced. It took me 15 minutes tops to glue the tire and it passed my extremely rigid "if I have any doubts I'll reglue it" checks. How to:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-glue-tubular.html

Next is slightly tongue in cheek but a good idea of what it takes to remove a well glued tire. You should not be able to remove it without an edge tool of some sort. If you have a blowout mid-corner you should be able to stay upright on a well glued tire - the tire rolls sideways just a bit until the sidewall is stretched, and you have a small section of tread now on the ground. A teammate/friend dove into a turn after just having attacked, had a blow out, and stayed upright. The tire was well glued. I know that because he was riding wheels I lent him, using my tires, on my glue job (in his case a valve let go):
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-removing-tubular.html

Finally, in 2011, in a span of 4 races, I saw 4 rolled tires. To me a rolled tire is like blowing a 0.25 on a Breathalyzer after plowing through a bunch of holiday shoppers. To see 4 rolled tires in 3 or so weekends is just unacceptable:
http://sprinterdellacasa.blogspot.com/2011/08/equipment-rolling-tubulars.html

One rolled tire was on a Tuesday, and I was 3rd wheel - 1st guy rolled his tire, 2nd guy broke his collarbone, and 2nd guy's bike bounced off my neck as I avoided the carnage. The 1st guy rolled his (rear) tire so he crashed lightly, just slid out (rolling a front is usually a collarbone or shoulder type of crash, if not worse). 2nd guy was on his hoods, couldn't brake or turn well, so he crashed, and because he wasn't expecting anything, he fell hard. I was 3rd wheel, vigilant as usual in the drops, so I made it. I made one error - after the bike hit my neck I got so focused on the curb in front of me I almost crashed into it. I knew that I was doing something wrong (target fixation) and finally managed to force myself to look away. At that point I made an innocuous course correction, missed the curb by maybe a foot, and rode onto the walkway next to the road.

[11.4]

1. 3M Fast Tack got reformulated to eliminate VOCs. As a result it doesn't work anywhere near as well as the original stuff.

2. It causes base tapes to become detached. Not pretty.

3. On some tires it has additional problems with tubes and with colored topcoats on sidewalls (which are supposed to be protective).

4. It doesn't actually work like rim cement and never has -- it doesn't provide the repairable tack that Mastik One does, and it no longer has the sheer adhesion that's needed.

5. It's not compatible with most of the rim cements and rim tapes out there now, so you have to scrub the rim clean if you choose to change adhesives.

We haven't heard much about Fast Tack for years. If you want to explore exotic cements that stick stronger than Mastik One (which I'd argue, and many would, you don't need to do), try neoprene wet suit cement. Or Soyo tubular rim cement (highly toxic but very strong). But none of these are cross-compatible with Mastik One or Conti either.

Simply answer is to get a can of glue and some flux brushes. And anyway, don't worry about saving a couple bucks on something that saves your life.

[jroden]

I know a rider who swears by the 3m yellow super weatherstip adhesive for cyclocross. I tried it and it was OK but it seemed to react with the existing glue mess and make toxic sludge. Might be worth looking at. Here's an old picture from when I tried fast tack, note the sweet front wheel:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/jroden99/22wheellessroden.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

Ok sure everybody uses vittoria or continental (or any other brand) glue in here, people like potato sure use the big ass can of glue but the majority of people here use the 5 grams tube that with luck and being quite cheap could be used for 2 or 3 tubulars.

The cost of that is about 3 to 8 bucks depending on the store and place, well now my question is... why to spend that money on this when 3m is manufacturing a tube of 147 grams of the same stuff for like 8 bucks???

3M Fast Tack Trim Adhesive can be found in some regular car parts places.

Just a thought.

As mentioned above, right tool for the job. Not gluing some rubber trim back onto the edge of your car door.

One tube for 3 tubulars? Remind me never to ride behind you in a corner.

I use Vittoria or Panaracer(my favorite).

[Gummee]

Fastack was an awesomely strong glue. Worked VERY well for gluing tubulars. Too well actually! As was pointed out above, it used to take my base tapes off. Taking a tire off was a huge PITA.

...but if you NEEDED to have a tire glued on RIGHT NOW! it was a doGsend. Glue that tire on and 20-30min later its ready to race.

I inherited a vat of Vittoria cement and have been going at it with that, so haven't wanted/needed to try Fastack lately. Good to know they changed the formula so I won't go trying it again.

I will say that the pot of glue (Conti comes with a a brush) and a brush is much nicer to use than tubes. I haven't quite gotten to the 'pour it into a squeeze bottle' stage like pro mechanics, but its a darn good idea if you're gluing LOTS of tires. :nod

M

[flydhest]

Potato,
Where does a civilian buy some? LBS doesn't carry it.

Maybe I will give you a heads up when next we are in Colorado.

[oldpotatoe]

Potato,
Where does a civilian buy some? LBS doesn't carry it.

Maybe I will give you a heads up when next we are in Colorado.

Panaracer? I sell it and Vittoria in cans when the various distributors have it(they don't right now), Vittoria in tubes also.

http://www.cambriabike.com/Panaracer-Pana-Cement-Tubular-Glue.asp

But I still get it...and cheaper also-