What gearing to use for open roads and steep hills?

[ljdan]

I will be equipping my Serotta Ottrott with the new Shimano 9000 mechanical gruppo. The bike is presently equipped with a Shimano 7800 group set: triple on the front (30-39-52) and 12-27 on the cassette (12-3-4-5-6-7-19-21-24-27). I am hoping that the compact gearing of the DA 9000, front (34-50) and an 11 speed cassette of 11-27 will meet my needs.

The riding I do is on the road (50+ miles) with lots of hills and on a paved bike trail.

Any input is welcome.

Larry D.

[cash05458]

I will be equipping my Serotta Ottrott with the new Shimano 9000 mechanical gruppo. The bike is presently equipped with a Shimano 7800 group set: triple on the front (30-39-52) and 12-27 on the cassette (12-3-4-5-6-7-19-21-24-27). I am hoping that the compact gearing of the DA 9000, front (34-50) and an 11 speed cassette of 11-27 will meet my needs.

The riding I do is on the road (50+ miles) with lots of hills and on a paved bike trail.

Any input is welcome.

Larry D.

Larry, absolutely I would think a 34/27 would get you up just about anything...I mean, as long as you are not in really terrible shape...I run around 185 pounds and a 34/27 gets me up some really steep long stuff no problemo when I have the guts to tackle it...and of course the 11 will be great on the flatter stuff...

[witcombusa]

How often are you currently using your inner 30t ring with the 24 and 27 rear cogs?

[monkeybanana86]

I agree with cash. If you are in good shape on a road bike with 34 tooth you should be well equipped for all hills. Only if you are constantly at the extreme of small gears would you need to worry. Personally, I like making spreadsheets!

[Chance]

..........
Any input is welcome.

Larry D.

Larry, obviously your lowest gear will be significantly higher. A 34/27 will be about 13 percent taller than your present 30/27 low gear. Only you can tell if that's important or not.

The other main difference will be giving up some middle range if you are one of those guys who likes to ride with a fairly straight chain line. With your triple the 39T middle ring offers mid-range gearing that's hard to duplicate with a compact unless the chain is crossed to a greater degree.

[Ralph]

I agree you can probably manage just fine with that 34 on the inside of the compact crank. I know it's not cool to run a triple in some age groups.

However.....I run a triple (30-42-52) doing rides like you describe, and I could get by just fine with a 34. I just prefer the triple. I have used a 34-50 before, and just didn't like the big jump between front gears. Found myself cross chained a lot either on the 34 or the 50. I much prefer having a middle gear in front where I do most of my level riding, and a gear on each side of that.....giving me a good chainline to the rear cog. That small chainring on the triple weighs about 30 grams, alloy bolts about 10 grams, and the built up bosses (on a Campy Triple crank) the bolts go into a few grams more. No big deal to me. The triple won't slow you down.

So in the end, it's kinda which you prefer. And I might add triples seem to be making a comeback among non pro riders. Population getting older, etc. There are some new choices this year from Campagnolo. You'll be fine whatever route you choose. Compacts are very popular now.

[Dave]

A 34/27 is nearly identical to a 30/24, so all you're losing is you lowest gear, the 30/27. If you actually use the 30/27 very much, then you'll have a problem.

[Ralph]

Larry, obviously your lowest gear will be significantly higher. A 34/27 will be about 13 percent taller than your present 30/27 low gear. Only you can tell if that's important or not.

The other main difference will be giving up some middle range if you are one of those guys who likes to ride with a fairly straight chain line. With your triple the 39T middle ring offers mid-range gearing that's hard to duplicate with a compact unless the chain is crossed to a greater degree.

Yep

[AngryScientist]

A 34/27 is nearly identical to a 30/24, so all you're losing is you lowest gear, the 30/27. If you actually use the 30/27 very much, then you'll have a problem.

this is the key.

[dekindy]

What is your age? It has been my observation that as they age, no matter how fit, older riders go from a compact to triple, not the other way around. My bike came with a triple that I thought I did not need. I am darn glad I have it. I live in the Indiana central till plain so I do not get a lot of hill training. When I do venture to Southern Indiana or Kentucky it is not unusual to encounter very short, steep hills that I have trouble getting my 200 lbs over. I am talking regularly encountering 10%+ and in many cases 18-20% grades. I switched from a 12/27 to a 12/25 and still can't figure what I was thinking. In fact, SRAM Apex does not sound half bad!

[roydyates]

this is the key.
+1
In fact, if you use 30/27 a lot, you might find you can climb faster with 30/32. It all depnds in your weight, fitness and terrain.

[oliver1850]

I don't know anything about the new group, but a 30 cog would give you virtually the same low ratio as you have now. Assuming they make one and a compatible RD, the drawback (for some) would be wider gaps between some adjacent cogs.

[Ken Robb]

Why do you want to spend $$ to do this?

[ljdan]

How often are you currently using your inner 30t ring with the 24 and 27 rear cogs?

Some of the hills around here have a slope of over 8%. Under those conditions, I am definitely cranking on the 30-27. The latter gives me a ratio of 1.11 vs 1.21 for the 34-28; I am thinking that at the low end, I will be ok. But I do not have any experience with the new 11 speed DA 9000 cassette. Will the extra cog make the middle range tolerable or will there be an energy depleting jump?

Larry D.

[ljdan]

Why do you want to spend $$ to do this?

I purchased a new frame (Lynskey) that I will be putting the DA 7800 group set and Mavic wheels on. My main ride is a Serotta Ottrott that will be getting the DA 9000 groupo and a new set of wheels (Zipp 101 or Shimano C35 from the new DA 9000 line, haven't decided).

Larry D.

[bikingshearer]

I'm a big, slow Clydesdale who occupies major chunks of gravity. I will not give up my Campy triples and 30x29 low gears for anything. Having said that, if you go the compact double route and find you need lower gears, get bigger cassettes. Unless things have changed, Shimano MTB cassettes will fit on Shimano road freehubs and give you plenty of gearing options.

Failing that, IRC has options available. They even have them for Campy freehubs.

[Dave]

There are two problems here. For one, there is no 11-27 cassette for Shimano 11.

Here's some infor on the available ratios.

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2012/06/shimano-updates-duraace-mechanical-and-di2/

Your lowest gear choices are both a 28T cog. With a compact, you have to decide on whether to lose a little bit of top gear in order preserve the SAME middle range that you have now, with a 12-28 or lose that 16T mide-range cog in favor of a 50/11 top gear, with an 11-28 cassette.

[dekindy]

Some of the hills around here have a slope of over 8%. Under those conditions, I am definitely cranking on the 30-27. The latter gives me a ratio of 1.11 vs 1.21 for the 34-28; I am thinking that at the low end, I will be ok. But I do not have any experience with the new 11 speed DA 9000 cassette. Will the extra cog make the middle range tolerable or will there be an energy depleting jump?

Larry D.

You are already using all you got. Why would you go with less. Me thinks you better keep your triple.

[Chance]

.

[witcombusa]

There are two problems here. For one, there is no 11-27 cassette for Shimano 11.

Here's some infor on the available ratios.

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2012/06/shimano-updates-duraace-mechanical-and-di2/

Your lowest gear choices are both a 28T cog. With a compact, you have to decide on whether to lose a little bit of top gear in order preserve the SAME middle range that you have now, with a 12-28 or lose that 16T mide-range cog in favor of a 50/11 top gear, with an 11-28 cassette.

That's easy....if you actually spin out the 50-12 you can coast

There's no coasting UP

[krhea]

I would save the money on components and find a local coach or cycling club with experienced rider/mentors. I would then focus on learning how to use all my gears properly as well as learning how to be as efficient as possible on the bike.
Riding Zipp 101s and having a bike outfitted with all the highest end components is no substitute for actually truly knowing how to get the most out of what ya got both the bike and your body.

We find in our mentorships that most riders, even long time riders don't really know how to get the most out the gearing they have or their fitness levels. They either don't shift enough, wait to long to shift when climbing, spin themselves into oblivion because someone at some point told them to "spin", they either stay seated to long or stand up to much etc etc. They think they have to be in and stay in the big ring at all times unless climbing a wall and on and on.

Light wheels are great, top of the line Campy/Shimano/Sram is cool but if you don't know how to "use" those items you're wasting your money.
Our clubs average age is well over 40, which means we have a ton of 60/70yr olds that ride with us. We climb serious hills on just about every ride and I don't know of many members who ride triples any longer. I'm sure there's a couple but very few. The only time we see triples is when a person is doing loaded touring and they need every extra bit of climbing help they can get and find, otherwise compacts are on 99% of the bikes.

[cnighbor1]

Has Shimano road and MTB cassette's are interchangeable I would get a MTB cassette with at least a 30T cog even consider last two cogs 28T to 32T setup
Shimano sells tons of that setup and they shift great
what I would be concerned about would being tired at end of ride and one more big hill to climb and you are out of options
I use a compact set up around the bay area with 34T and 24T max rear
which work great

[Dave]

When I was 53 years old, I rode from Idaho Springs to the top of Mt. Evans, in 2 hours, 35 minutes - a pace that would usually put a person of that age in the top 10 on race day. I did that with did that using a 53/39/28 triple with a 12-25 10-speed cassette, on a relatively heavy LOOK KG481.

I used the 28T ring when pedaling seated, but rode at least 1/3 of the 28 miles, out of the saddle in the 39T ring.

I later switched to a 50/34 with an 11-25 (Campy 11-speed), but there are times when it forces you to get out of the saddle rather than sit and spin. I really do like having the option of sitting and spinning if I choose. Sometimes, you can't beat a triple.

Campy is now offering an 11 speed triple. Too bad the shifters are powershift. I'm willing to be that Chorus and higher level shifter will work too. I measured the cable pull, back in 2008 and it was enough to operate a 10 speed triple FD.

[Ken Robb]

I purchased a new frame (Lynskey) that I will be putting the DA 7800 group set and Mavic wheels on. My main ride is a Serotta Ottrott that will be getting the DA 9000 groupo and a new set of wheels (Zipp 101 or Shimano C35 from the new DA 9000 line, haven't decided).

Larry D.group

Ah, I guess a few of us thought you were replacing a group that works for you with one with slightly less range.

[efuentes]

After seeing my options a while back I decided to ditch the 34-50 and went with a 30-46 and 11-30. got a really deep 1:1 for climbing everything and 46-11 is fast enough for me (I went with a MTB 2X10 crankset)

[Pete Mckeon]

With your current ride the question becomes "How often do you use the 30 front and 27 rear? If it is used quite often than a compact with a 27 will be a challenge for you up the hills. Hills vs Mtns and length/angles as well as what type shape are you in? It is really a personal choice but use a compact or triple based on how often you use a triple now, and can you have fun without a triple?

I use a triple in vt and colorado but a compact is more than enough here. Sram has a compact and a big rear cassette that is effectively the same gear as a 30 triple With the 27 tooth rear that Shimano offers

[witcombusa]

With your current ride the question becomes "How often do you use the 30 front and 27 rear? If it is used quite often than a compact with a 27 will be a challenge for you up the hills. Hills vs Mtns and length/angles as well as what type shape are you in? It is really a personal choice but use a compact or triple based on how often you use a triple now, and can you have fun without a triple?

I use a triple in vt and colorado but a compact is more than enough here. Sram has a compact and a big rear cassette that is effectively the same gear as a 30 triple With the 27 tooth rear that Shimano offers

this was already asked and answered above ^^^^^ (post #14)

[Louis]

If you have a low gear that you currently need and use, should you choose a new drivetrain that does not have that gear you will certainly miss it in the future. (unless you also loose a bunch of weight, or improve your climbing)

[Ahneida Ride]

I have a 22/29 but then I encounter 14-18% hills.

Consider a TA Carmina Crank from Peter White

[bluesea]

If you have a low gear that you currently need and use, should you choose a new drivetrain that does not have that gear you will certainly miss it in the future. (unless you also loose a bunch of weight, or improve your climbing)


You might miss it, but you might also not need it either.

[echelon_john]

I'm going to sound like a grump here, but saying you're putting a Dura Ace 9000 group on an Ottrott and asking gearing advice is like saying you just bought a Porsche 911 and asking if anybody has any tips for driving a car with a manual transmission.

[shovelhd]

Some of the hills around here have a slope of over 8%. Under those conditions, I am definitely cranking on the 30-27. The latter gives me a ratio of 1.11 vs 1.21 for the 34-28; I am thinking that at the low end, I will be ok. But I do not have any experience with the new 11 speed DA 9000 cassette. Will the extra cog make the middle range tolerable or will there be an energy depleting jump?

Larry D.

Your first two sentences are telling. If you feel that you'll be OK with a 34-28, then go for the DA 9000. Otherwise, you should stick to the triple, which means Ultegra as far as I know. Regarding your second question, adding an extra cog typically closes up the gaps in a cassette, not widens them. 11 speed usually has an additional cog right where you want it.

[Chance]

Your first two sentences are telling. If you feel that you'll be OK with a 34-28, then go for the DA 9000. Otherwise, you should stick to the triple, which means Ultegra as far as I know. Regarding your second question, adding an extra cog typically closes up the gaps in a cassette, not widens them. 11 speed usually has an additional cog right where you want it.

It sounds like in this case he is picking up the 11T small sprocket as his additional cog. Hence it doesn't help much in the middle. Additionally, the gearing spacing for the 11-speed cassette is different than expected for Shimano (as reported in the linked article previously mentioned). Shimano doesn't just add the 11T to a 12-28 10-speed to make an 11-28 11-speed, but instead seems to give up the 16T in order to close ratios of the biggest climbing cogs. Don't particularly like that at all (although haven't tried it). Personally prefer tighter gears in the middle where we ride most often.

11-23: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23
11-25: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25
11-28: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
12-25: 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25
12-28: 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28

[krhea]

i'm going to sound like a grump here, but saying you're putting a dura ace 9000 group on an ottrott and asking gearing advice is like saying you just bought a porsche 911 and asking if anybody has any tips for driving a car with a manual transmission.

+1

[fiataccompli]

No love here for 39/53 with a 25t or 27t in back? I cant seem to get comfortable with compact gearing (always feel like i'm cross-chaining or just don't have the right sweet spot in the gears.)

[FlashUNC]

No love here for 39/53 with a 25t or 27t in back? I cant seem to get comfortable with compact gearing (always feel like i'm cross-chaining or just don't have the right sweet spot in the gears.)

I think it depends on where you're riding.

Here's in Charlotte, there's nothing really steep enough that a 39-25 or 39-27 can't get over. None of the hills are long enough that just powering over them isn't an option. I came to hate my 50-34 here for that exact reason. I've since swapped to a 50-36, and that seems to help a bit.

Drive a couple hours west though...

[fiataccompli]

Im in East TN, so i do a fair share of climbing ..18% grade "wall" sections are harsh but im those cases I wonder how much difference a few teeth would make. Btw, 36/50 seems like a good crank but i dont hear about that much.

[shovelhd]

It sounds like in this case he is picking up the 11T small sprocket as his additional cog.

Excellent point. I missed the details on the new layout. I don't like it either. 11T and 16T are mandatory for me, as are more than three cassette choices.

[FlashUNC]

Im in East TN, so i do a fair share of climbing ..18% grade "wall" sections are harsh but im those cases I wonder how much difference a few teeth would make. Btw, 36/50 seems like a good crank but i dont hear about that much.

I really like mine. The 34 was useful, but really only when I was on the steepest of stuff. Otherwise I felt like I was just constantly cross chained. The 36 seems to ameliorate that, while not being as tall as a 39. Gets me closer to the best of both worlds imo.

I really like it, though I suspect I'd like a semi-compact 52-36 even more.

[palincss]

I will be equipping my Serotta Ottrott with the new Shimano 9000 mechanical gruppo. The bike is presently equipped with a Shimano 7800 group set: triple on the front (30-39-52) and 12-27 on the cassette (12-3-4-5-6-7-19-21-24-27). I am hoping that the compact gearing of the DA 9000, front (34-50) and an 11 speed cassette of 11-27 will meet my needs.

The riding I do is on the road (50+ miles) with lots of hills and on a paved bike trail.


So, what are your needs? What's the highest high you use, and the lowest low? What gear do you use for flat terrain, and where is it in terms of the rest of the gears? Those are the things you need to determine before you can evaluate any proposed gearing combination.

[palincss]

I have a 22/29 but then I encounter 14-18% hills.


I wonder how many of those who say "you can get up anything with a ..." routinely deal with terrain like that.

[witcombusa]

I really like mine. The 34 was useful, but really only when I was on the steepest of stuff. Otherwise I felt like I was just constantly cross chained. The 36 seems to ameliorate that, while not being as tall as a 39. Gets me closer to the best of both worlds imo.

I really like it, though I suspect I'd like a semi-compact 52-36 even more.

46-34 is my choice :banana:

[fiataccompli]

Yeah, actually that was a type-o...i meant 36/52...so, yeah!

[sg8357]

After seeing my options a while back I decided to ditch the 34-50 and went with a 30-46 and 11-30. got a really deep 1:1 for climbing everything and 46-11 is fast enough for me (I went with a MTB 2X10 crankset)

New roadie super compact from Sugino, 46/30 available.
http://store.somafab.com/suoxcrarwcu.html

[Pete Mckeon]

this was already asked and answered above ^^^^^ (post #14)


Did not see it. That is the way to address it. Or start it:):beer::beer:

[bigreen505]

There is a big difference between an 8% hill and a 3 hour climb with an 8% average.