stress relieving wheel after build

[AngryScientist]

i just built my first wheel last night!

pretty simple, everything went as i expected. perfectly round and true right now, with fairly even spoke tensions.

now for the "stress relieving". various wheelbuilding sources provide guidance to stress relieve the wheel - anything from grabbing the spokes and squeezing them to detensioning the wheel and re-tensioning, and a whole lot of other options.

what's your wheelbuilding process that has worked successfully for you?

[ultraman6970]

IMO depends on the wheel, with straight pull spokes the tension is really high and pretty much you can't squeeze the spokes once the wheel is done. In those cases you just put the wheel in the floor and roll it putting your weight over it, the same technique obviously works with regular wheels.

[FlashUNC]

Trick I've always seen is placing the hub against a flat surface and consistently, but gently, pressing on the rim to de-stress the spokes. Don't want to throw all your body weight on it, don't want to taco a new rim after all.

[oldpotatoe]

i just built my first wheel last night!

pretty simple, everything went as i expected. perfectly round and true right now, with fairly even spoke tensions.

now for the "stress relieving". various wheelbuilding sources provide guidance to stress relieve the wheel - anything from grabbing the spokes and squeezing them to detensioning the wheel and re-tensioning, and a whole lot of other options.

what's your wheelbuilding process that has worked successfully for you?

Parallel spokes, squeeze hard once or twice before you get to final tension. Also either push on rim outsides or tap on the floor, gently, to take spoke windup out. A new wheel that 'pings' when ridden was not done, finished properly.

[dekindy]

Aren't you supposed to stress relieve during the build? I don't build wheels but thought I read that somewhere once.

[ultraman6970]

Many times no matter how good you stress the wheel during the built, because sometimes in the 1st ride you hear pings aswel :D

[nighthawk]

Trick I've always seen is placing the hub against a flat surface and consistently, but gently, pressing on the rim to de-stress the spokes. Don't want to throw all your body weight on it, don't want to taco a new rim after all.

This is what I've done in the past, sortof. I put the wheel in the corner of a room, bottom contact with floor, top contact with wall... and press gently into hub on both sides. I haven't built a lot of wheels.. but I've never had issues with the ones I have.

[cachagua]

Some people recommend putting a wooden spoon between adjacent pairs, near the hub, and cranking the spokes well past their final positions and angles, to truly deform the bends next to their heads, and doing the same thing where they cross. (I can't say anything about radial.)

The explanation is that a spoke is strongest when, with no tension on it, it would be exactly the same shape as when it's built into the wheel and under tension. This was hard for me to grasp at first -- the spoke just has to go from the hub to the rim, what's the difference if it's bent that way, or if the tension pulls it that way? But the distinction is between elastic and plastic deformation: when a spoke is bent, truly bent to where it stays bent, it's relaxed in that shape, whereas if there's tension pulling it into its shape, that tension is essentially added to the tension of the build.

Not everyone is convinced of this idea, and I may not have succeeded in making sense of it here. And how can you really tell? I only know when spokes don't break...

Ric Hjertberg's blog at http://wheelfanatyk.blogspot.com has a lot of useful pointers and technical explanations, and really breathtaking pictures.

[bambam]

When I'm building them While tightening or loosening spokes I always go and extra 1/4 or 1/8 of a turn then come back the same. i.e. 1/2 turn = 3/4 turn - 1/4 turn. Aslo once the spokes start to look straight after a complete go around of the wheel I will squeeze the parallel spokes and/or push the outside crosses towards the hubs with the handle of the screwdriver.

I will also periodically do the lay flat and push on the rim thing but that is usually more in the earlier stages.

Since you are almost finished I might go around the whole wheel and lossen 1/4 then tighten 3/8 then lossen 1/8.

Again this is just what I do or would do. Probably overkill.

[echelon_john]

To me, spoke windup and stress relief are two different issues. For windup, diligently doing what Bambam, above, mentions is key. During final tensioning, when there's enough friction on the threads to produce windup, always turn each spoke past where you want it, then turn back. If you look carefully, even on a round spoke it's pretty easy to see where the 'sweet spot' is where there's no twist. Lubricating the spoke threads is also critical to minimize twist. Ideally you want to use a substance that lubricates as you're building the wheel, then acts as a threadlocker once it's done. I use boiled linseed oil.

In terms of stress relief, I like red wine. But for wheelbuilding I do basically what cahagua, above, describes. I use a piece of pipe (seatstay cutoff) held horizontally through the spokes in both hands. I bring it down forcefully e few times on each spoke cross, enough to flex/bend the spokes a bit. You're basically trying to take the spokes closer to their elastic limit than they will go during their regular service in the wheel, while also doing a final 'bed in' of the spoke heads in the hub flange, the nipple in the rim, and the threads in a nipple. I do this when the wheel is almost done, and is vertically & laterally true, at probably 80% of final spoke tension.

Not uncommon to see drive side spokes that were at 20kgf before this process drop to 15-16kgf after; then it's time for gradual final tensioning with the anti-twist strategies mentioned above.

[echelon_john]

Of course, the OP only weighs 103 pounds soaking wet, so can probably just throw a few spokes in the rim, tighten 'em up with a cordless drill, and call it good.:banana:

[Mark McM]

To me, spoke windup and stress relief are two different issues.

Ditto. Stress-relieving and eliminating spoke windup are often confused, but they are not the same thing - in fact they are kind of mirror opposites. Stress-relieving involves momentarily overloading the spokes, to cause them to (slightly) deform into a shape with a more even stress distribution. In contrast, eliminating spoke wind-up is often done by momentarily de-stressed (which reduces the static friction holding the spoke/nipple in position).

[guyintense]

Thanks to Gerd Schraner's The Art of wheel building.
One of the best books on the subject.

There are a number of popular methods of stressrelieving wheels, some gentler than others. Banging the spokes with your Doc Martens is definitely a case of overkill. The simplest method is to do the job on the workbench. Place the wheel on the bench in such a way that it rests on the axle and the 6 o'clock position of the rim. Using your left hand in the 9 o'clock and your right hand in the 3 o'clock position press the wheel in steps of approximately three spokes down towards the bench. When this side has been pressed, turn the wheel over and repeat on the other side. You should be able to hear the spokes settling. Re-true the wheel and repeat the pressing stage again until the wheel needs no more retruing. The wheel "stands" at last?

This need repeating, re-true the wheel and repeat the pressing stage again until the wheel needs no more retruing.

[guyintense]

And while we're on the subject of spoke tension some bad news. Wheelsmith no longer offers their spoke tensiometer recalibration service. So stop dropping yours.

[AngryScientist]

press the wheel in steps of approximately three spokes down towards the bench. .

i'm having a hard time visualizing what this means? am i pushing on the rim or the spokes themselves to do this?

[guyintense]

I place my hands at around 4 and 8 oclock but your hands are on the rim and put your back into it. I other words push down HARD!

[Mark McM]

Thanks to Gerd Schraner's The Art of wheel building.
One of the best books on the subject.

There are a number of popular methods of stressrelieving wheels, some gentler than others. Banging the spokes with your Doc Martens is definitely a case of overkill. The simplest method is to do the job on the workbench. Place the wheel on the bench in such a way that it rests on the axle and the 6 o'clock position of the rim. Using your left hand in the 9 o'clock and your right hand in the 3 o'clock position press the wheel in steps of approximately three spokes down towards the bench. When this side has been pressed, turn the wheel over and repeat on the other side. You should be able to hear the spokes settling. Re-true the wheel and repeat the pressing stage again until the wheel needs no more retruing. The wheel "stands" at last?

This need repeating, re-true the wheel and repeat the pressing stage again until the wheel needs no more retruing.

This method can be used to eliminate spoke wind-up, but it does a poor job of stress-relieving. Because most rims have a relatively low lateral stiffness, pressing on localized points on the rim causes little increase in tension on the spokes - the main affect is for the rim to bend laterally and decrease tension in the spokes opposite the side being pushed. The more flexible the rim, the less effective this method will be for the momentary over-stressing required for stress-relieveing

Spoke stress-relieving by with a lateral load is only sure to be effective if the rim is rigidly supported. For example, Bontrager uses a table with a round hole just smaller than the rim. A wheel is laid on the table over the hole so that rim is centered around the hole (and the spokes and hub dangle in the middle of the hole), and then the upward projecting end of the axle is pressed downward, increasing the stress on the spokes below the rim uniformly, stress-relieving them.

Without a special table, the best way to stress relief is by squeezing or levering pairs of spokes. This loads the rim in it's stiffest modes (circumferentially and radially), allowing significant tension increases in the spokes being squeezed/levered. It is best to squeeze/lever pairs of spokes that are adjacent but on opposite sides of the wheel, to balance out the lateral bending loads on the rim:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/3289011094_c2e1616760_o.jpg

[fuzzalow]

^ As correctly stated by Mark McM

This is the method for relieving wheel spokes prescribed by Jobst Brandt in his book on building bicycle wheels from over 30 years ago. It was probably the first published book on the subject and still one of the best.

I'm not as tough as Mark McM, if that is he working those spokes in the picture above. I wear gloves and squeeze 'em like I've just made port off of a submarine.

[oldpotatoe]

This method can be used to eliminate spoke wind-up, but it does a poor job of stress-relieving. Because most rims have a relatively low lateral stiffness, pressing on localized points on the rim causes little increase in tension on the spokes - the main affect is for the rim to bend laterally and decrease tension in the spokes opposite the side being pushed. The more flexible the rim, the less effective this method will be for the momentary over-stressing required for stress-relieveing

Spoke stress-relieving by with a lateral load is only sure to be effective if the rim is rigidly supported. For example, Bontrager uses a table with a round hole just smaller than the rim. A wheel is laid on the table over the hole so that rim is centered around the hole (and the spokes and hub dangle in the middle of the hole), and then the upward projecting end of the axle is pressed downward, increasing the stress on the spokes below the rim uniformly, stress-relieving them.

Without a special table, the best way to stress relief is by squeezing or levering pairs of spokes. This loads the rim in it's stiffest modes (circumferentially and radially), allowing significant tension increases in the spokes being squeezed/levered. It is best to squeeze/lever pairs of spokes that are adjacent but on opposite sides of the wheel, to balance out the lateral bending loads on the rim:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/3289011094_c2e1616760_o.jpg

Yep, what I do. I do the big screw driver handle, push toward hub on crossing spoke....thing...when spokes aren't tight to make the wind up the same, pulling, pushing spokes. I squeeze parallel spokes to stress relieve. The put axle on a table and push on the rim gig is for spoke windup..

You need a new shirt..look at those frayed cuffs...my word!!

And I wear gloves..thin spokes hurt when ya squeeze them.

[Peter P.]

Hey; those are MY hands!

My stress relieving method is to squeeze them as in the photo above AND grab pairs across both flanges and do the same.

I'll go around the rim once or twice, working on roundness.

I'll go around the rim once or twice, working on lateral true.

Increase the tension.

Stress relieve.

Repeat.

As oldpotatoe said, a properly stress relieved wheel should not have any pinging spokes when you first ride it. Pinging is from wound up spokes relieving some twist.

To eliminate windup, you should always grasp the spoke being turned with the fingers of your free hand. You'll overtighten the spoke then untwist it a smidge. The fingers squeezing the spoke give you excellent feedback on whether the spoke is twisting as well as help prevent it some.

That "laying the wheel on it's axle and pressing down on the rim to relieve spoke twist" method is a poor cure for bad building technique and you run a REAL risk of pretzeling your rim. When I learned wheelbuilding as a kid over 30 years ago, I did it TWICE, IN A ROW! Never again...

[rounder]

What happens next. Do you build the second wheel. Do you take the bike out to the biggest and nastiest hill around and see how fast it goes.

Just wondering. I am still interested in building a set of wheels. And was wondering what to expect.

[AngryScientist]

thank you everyone for all of the excellent advice. after a ridiculously crazy day at work yesterday, i went home and finished off the wheel. i used method essentially that the Peters describe above. i took my time and brought the spokes up to final tension and everything looks great, round and true as an arrow. i also stress relieved myself with the old standby:

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/11/1125_executive_gift_guide/image/27_macallan_scotch.jpg

[guyintense]

That "laying the wheel on it's axle and pressing down on the rim to relieve spoke twist" method is a poor cure for bad building technique and you run a REAL risk of pretzeling your rim. When I learned wheelbuilding as a kid over 30 years ago, I did it TWICE, IN A ROW! Never again...

So you're discounting Gerd Schraner's technique because you did it wrong twice 30 years ago. Squeezing paired spokes is good to do while the wheel is in the stand and you're bringing the spokes up to final tension but once you are close to max tension the "pressing down on the rim" is another viable way to stress the spokes. You're saying Gerds method is a poor cure for bad building technique? Really?

[jr59]

Parallel spokes, squeeze hard once or twice before you get to final tension. Also either push on rim outsides or tap on the floor, gently, to take spoke windup out. A new wheel that 'pings' when ridden was not done, finished properly.

??? I have a question;

EVERY wheel I have ever had pings when I first ride it, not for long but it does.

All my wheels have been hand built. Some by some VERY respected builders, including Peter White, Joe Young, and Phil Wood. As well of a few guys local to me that do a very good job. Or at least I think they do.

I'm a very heavy guy, @ 265 or so. Less when I can ride normal.

All the wheels I have had built pinged, they also have stayed true and been rock steady for many, many miles! I have had the wheels rechecked after riding them and found them to be mostly fine. Of course there have been the rare problem. But no big deal and it's been rare.

If you guys would try to explain this to me, so my fat butt can understand this. I'm more confused than normal! :help:

[11.4]

How many n-m of force can any of us exert with our hands? How many n-m of tension are already on the spokes? If we're going to either relieve tension to fix windup or trying to set the spokes properly, I don't honestly think hands alone can do it. I watched track wheelbuilders at the six-day in Gent and Rotterdam using a wooden hammer handle to flex spokes hard enough. And they would routinely stand on the rims of built wheels as well, laid flat on the floor. These are track wheels, of course, without the asymmetry of a road wheel, but I still wonder whether we're deluding ourselves thinking that tensioning with our hands can fix anything.

[oldpotatoe]

??? I have a question;

EVERY wheel I have ever had pings when I first ride it, not for long but it does.

All my wheels have been hand built. Some by some VERY respected builders, including Peter White, Joe Young, and Phil Wood. As well of a few guys local to me that do a very good job. Or at least I think they do.

I'm a very heavy guy, @ 265 or so. Less when I can ride normal.

All the wheels I have had built pinged, they also have stayed true and been rock steady for many, many miles! I have had the wheels rechecked after riding them and found them to be mostly fine. Of course there have been the rare problem. But no big deal and it's been rare.

If you guys would try to explain this to me, so my fat butt can understand this. I'm more confused than normal! :help:

Well, pinging means the windup in the spoke, that happens when you turn a nipple, even with lube, is coming out. When the spoke unwinds, it essentially lengthens and the tension there goes down a wee bit. If the wheel stays true, then the windup that's coming out, is small.