OT - can someone learn me on knives?

[fogrider]

I would like to get the little woman a nice kitchen knife for christmas...what do I need to know? I'm thinking a japanese 8 or 9 inch multi purpose knife.

[maunahaole]

Shun is nice. Can be pricy. The Japanese style or Santoku knife is nice to use once you become accustomed to the shape of the blade. You can buy me one while you are at the store....

[jwad]

Shun is very nice.

If you like a more modern style, Global or Chroma type 301 are great. I have santoku knives from both that i like. The Chroma is heavier, but i love its paddle shaped handle.

You can get santoku knives from Henkles or Wusthof as well, if you like the more classic wood handle chef's knife styling. But i would lean towards their upper end lines

they can get expensive, but any higher end blade is going to last for years if you take care of it.

[AngryScientist]

my wife is a fanatical and fantastic cook, and we have a butcher block full of very nice knives. navigating the waters of nicer cutlery can be a bit tricky. each of the popular brands can have multiple different lines, and the quality can vary significantly.

it is also very individual, much like with bike stuff - there are four components to consider:

1- the aesthetic quality - how does it look, modern, classic, wood handles, etc
2- ergonomics, what handle feels good in my hands might not in yours, or your wifes
3- function - good steel with a well shaped blade. easy to sharpen (another topic in and of itself), etc.
4- type - chefs knife, santoku, paring, utility, etc.

if it's your first foray into nicer knives, my advice is to forget all the brand names, go take a look at a good kitchen store and find something in your price range that satisfies you in the four categories above and just go for it.

good luck. i dont use them often, but i really like kitchen knives.

[srice]

My Shun knives were one of my best kitchen purchases, but I wasn't sold on them until I went into a store and held one. I asked the clerk to get all of their 10" chef's knives out for me to look at. Took about 5 minutes to do that. Took me about 30 seconds to make up my mind. The Shun felt the best in my hand. Good luck!

[yngpunk]

and not a store that sells cutlery in addition to other kitchen and cooking wares (e.g. William Sonoma).

Don't know where you live, but guessing SF given your handle. I'd suggest Columbus Cutlery in SF. If you happend to be in Chicago, I'd recommend Northwestern Cutlery

Good luck

[R2D2]

I've had nothing but disappointment from Shun. Look nice, but very brittle and don't hold a point well. And in addition they renigged on their free sharpenning sevice.
In short, it is hard to beat Henckels. The Germans are the best metalurgist in the world. Henckels are built to hold a point and stand up to day to day use in a kitchen.

[thegunner]

not one of the 'big' players -- but i've had kyocera ceramics for 5 years now. $10 lifetime replacement/sharpenings for as many knives as you own (although i've never needed to)

[srice]

I've had nothing but disappointment from Shun. Look nice, but very brittle and don't hold a point well. And in addition they renigged on their free sharpenning sevice.
In short, it is hard to beat Henckels. The Germans are the best metalurgist in the world. Henckels are built to hold a point and stand up to day to day use in a kitchen.

Interesting - I've used their free sharpening service twice with great results. I'm not too interested in the point of the blade -never use it. I'm happy with the edge retention and sharpness though. I've used Henckels in the past too with good results, but really like the way the Shun handle fits my hand.

[oldpotatoe]

my wife is a fanatical and fantastic cook, and we have a butcher block full of very nice knives. navigating the waters of nicer cutlery can be a bit tricky. each of the popular brands can have multiple different lines, and the quality can vary significantly.

it is also very individual, much like with bike stuff - there are four components to consider:

1- the aesthetic quality - how does it look, modern, classic, wood handles, etc
2- ergonomics, what handle feels good in my hands might not in yours, or your wifes
3- function - good steel with a well shaped blade. easy to sharpen (another topic in and of itself), etc.
4- type - chefs knife, santoku, paring, utility, etc.

if it's your first foray into nicer knives, my advice is to forget all the brand names, go take a look at a good kitchen store and find something in your price range that satisfies you in the four categories above and just go for it.

good luck. i dont use them often, but i really like kitchen knives.

Don't know diddly about kitchen knives but like bike stuff, you see 'ceramic' knives..good idea?

[AngryScientist]

Don't know diddly about kitchen knives but like bike stuff, you see 'ceramic' knives..good idea?

i have no experience with ceramic knives. "steel is real" for me :)

i'm pretty handy with a sharpening stone too, so i get satisfaction out of putting a razor edge on a good steel knife. i see no need to go to ceramic anything.

[Nooch]

all my knives are victorinox, picked up from the swiss army factory outlet sale.. i like the fibrox handles, they feel nice, well weighted.. seem to sharpen well.. didn't cost me a fortune..

http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-47521-10-Inch-Fibrox-Handle/dp/B0000CF8YO/ref=sr_1_2?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1355235529&sr=1-2&keywords=victorinox+forschner

[thegunner]

i have no experience with ceramic knives. "steel is real" for me :)

i'm pretty handy with a sharpening stone too, so i get satisfaction out of putting a razor edge on a good steel knife. i see no need to go to ceramic anything.

ceramics are pimp (says a former matsci guy)

[Ti Designs]

Is nobody going to ask how she's going to use the knife? I've made 9 chef's knives so far using 4 different blade profiles, 2 different edge tapers and 9 different handle types. If the knife doesn't fit how the person is using it, they have the wrong tool in their hands (I was going to say it's pointless...) One of the chef's knives I made has a very rounded and thin edge which makes it perfect for large scale prep work. My own has a much straigher blade with a bit more drop to the tip and a much thicker blade. It all depends on what you want to do with it.

Since I started making knives, I've found that most people have their go-to knife, which probably isn't the big one. I've made a few mini blocks with a tomato knife, paring knife and bird's beak knife and the people who have them say those are used 90% of the time. If you want to get one, and you want it to be special, find a Shun Ken Onion paring knife. Ken Onion no longer works for Shun (Kershaw really) and those knives haven't been made in a few years, but as soon as you try it you'll know why it's worth finding. The blade is wider than most at the base, the handle has an odd shape that allows the user to grasp it in different ways, so both cutting straight or carving a radius works.

[nicrump]

buying a chef knives is like buying a cyclist bibs... get her a gift cert and let her pick out what she wants.

[nighthawk]

I like these: http://www.lamsonsharp.com/

Not because I know knives, but because they are local.

[MattTuck]

buying a chef knives is like buying a cyclist bibs... get her a gift cert and let her pick out what she wants.

Not sure about the recipient. I think that some women may be insulted or upset by a kitchen based gift. (maybe next year you'll give her a new bottle of Tide and Bounce fabric sheets along with a new iron and ironing board)

Anyway, giving her a gift that she could stab you with is she's unhappy with it... :eek: Just make sure you know your audience.

[mister]

you probably wouldn't go wrong getting her a gyuto/chef's knife...maybe 210mm or so.
you can basically do everything with one that you can do with a santoku, plus a little more.

german knives tend to be a little heftier and softer steel than the japanese type stuff.

so our german chef's nife, 9", is kinda the beater knife, we crush garlic with it, cut frozen stuff, cut bones maybe...leave it out for the housemate to do as he pleases with it.
it slices and chops ok, most people think it's really sharp.

the japanese blades are thinner, slice much much better and overall feel better in the hand, more agile.
i have a 210mm french pattern gyuto and a 165mm nakiri (like a vegetable cleaver). both have highly polished blades so they slide right through whatever you're cutting.
most people are scared of these knives.

[mister]

Not sure about the recipient. I think that some women may be insulted or upset by a kitchen based gift. (maybe next year you'll give her a new bottle of Tide and Bounce fabric sheets along with a new iron and ironing board)

Anyway, giving her a gift that she could stab you with is she's unhappy with it... :eek: Just make sure you know your audience.

he said she likes to cook
i don't see how anyone who likes to cook would be unhappy getting a nice knife for a gift
i have nice knives and i still would be happy with another nice knife as a gift

[craptacular]

Mister is pretty spot on with his post. One of the best things you can do also get her a stone like this. (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/13272919660380753744?q=sharpening%20stone&hl=en&safe=off&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bpcl=39650382&biw=1280&bih=705&sa=X&ei=X1DHUM6eAZGx0QGLyICoCw&ved=0CK0BEPMCMAg) No reason to have anything finer than 1000 grit for home use unless she does lots of sushi.

One company that works well for smaller hands is Global. They are nice knives, lightweight and able to take a good edge. Chefs Knives to Go (http://www.chefknivestogo.com/) is a great website for her. I get all mine here, mainly because I am left handed and they are hard to find in stores.

[Ken Robb]

Because the "feel and fit" are so important I would give her a hand-written "promissory note" to take her to the best store for knives in your area so she can get the one she likes best. I'd also include a really nice lunch in the deal to make it a couple's adventure.

[mister]

Because the "feel and fit" are so important I would give her a hand-written "promissory note" to take her to the best store for knives in your area so she can get the one she likes best. I'd also include a really nice lunch in the deal to make it a couple's adventure.

this is a great point.
the 210mm gyuto i ordered...i wouldn't have gotten if i had seen and held it in person. i figured it was going to feel pretty similar to the 9" german knife i have.
i wish i had a 240mm gyuto instead, but i've gotten used to the 210mm knife and i do like it now.

[559Rando]

FWIW, Anthony Bourdain recommends Global Chef's knife as a staple in _Kitchen Confidential_

"Global makes a lot of knives in different sizes, so what do you need? One chef's knife."

[jh_on_the_cape]

Bad luck to give a knife as a gift. Make sure you tape a penny to it. She should then give the penny back to you so she is buying the knife from you.

I like any cheap knife that can go in the dishwasher. The ones with the white plastic handle. We have Sanelli knives we bought in Italy, they have a green and orange plastic handle.

I know that's considered sacrilege by many. I prefer a cheap knife that requires frequent sharpening that I can put in the dishwasher. I cook daily for my family. I prepare everything from scratch. When I have more money I might get $$ knives, but I will still put them in the dishwasher.

Again, not a normal thing, but I use kitchen shears to cut lots of things: meats and vegetables. I found some really nice Henkel shears on the side of the road once while out on a 20 mile run. Ran all the way home (10 miles) with them! RUnning with scissors!

I long for a short kitchen light saber.

[R2D2]

Interesting - I've used their free sharpening service twice with great results. I'm not too interested in the point of the blade -never use it. I'm happy with the edge retention and sharpness though. I've used Henckels in the past too with good results, but really like the way the Shun handle fits my hand.

I sould have said edge.
After some research it appears Shun is now again sharpening for free.
They dropped it for a while.
They are beautiful knives, but I'd trade all we own for equivalent Henckels.

To each their own.

From Shun site:
FREE Sharpening is Back!

Yes! Effective September 4, 2012, Kai USA Ltd. is once again sharpening your Shun cutlery for free, for as long as you own it. It’s as simple as that. You pay for shipping, and our expert sharpening services are FREE. If you live in the area, you may also bring your Shun knives in for free sharpening. We can sharpen up to two knives while you wait; more than two and they will be ready for you to pick up the next day.

[fogrider]

FWIW, Anthony Bourdain recommends Global Chef's knife as a staple in _Kitchen Confidential_

"Global makes a lot of knives in different sizes, so what do you need? One chef's knife."

thanks for all the responses!!! I'm of the school of steel is real...at least for knives. the use would be for general prep.
the global knives are interesting, they look like nice knives and I do find anthony bourdain entertaining, I had something more traditional in mind, but I could go either way. we have a drawer full of German knives and she's always having to get them sharpened. I like the idea of shopping locally and found this shop close by:
http://bernalcutlery.com/shop/category/all-cutlery
I'm thinking of something around 8" - 9" and if she doesn't like it, we can go in and exchange.

[MattTuck]

http://cutbrooklyn.com/home.html

Another local option... handmade knives from brooklyn.

[shovelhd]

buying a chef knives is like buying a cyclist bibs... get her a gift cert and let her pick out what she wants.

/thread

[CaliFly]

She absolutely needs to hold it in her hand to decide. The one that feels best will be the one she picks up and uses first. The Shun Ken Onion 6" is the one for me. Looks funky, works great.

[Tyler Evans]

This local guy makes them custom for many top chefs, great story, great guy: http://mksknife.com/

This is a custom for the masses program he is working on: http://www.indiegogo.com/mksknife

Good luck with your purchase! A good chefs knife is key.

[jh_on_the_cape]

This local guy makes them custom for many top chefs, great story, great guy: http://mksknife.com/

This is a custom for the masses program he is working on: http://www.indiegogo.com/mksknife

Good luck with your purchase! A good chefs knife is key.

That is a great link. Someday I am going to ride down Newbury on my custom Firefly wielding one of those knives! I will be in full Rapha garb trying to decide where to get my hair cut! Then, I will drink coffee and contemplate my next move.

[Tyler Evans]

That is a great link. Someday I am going to ride down Newbury on my custom Firefly wielding one of those knives! I will be in full Rapha garb trying to decide where to get my hair cut! Then, I will drink coffee and contemplate my next move.

Sounds like a good day.

[djg]

You're starting to see that folks have preferences.

So . . . I guess I'll suggest a place like SLT, not because they have everything worth considering (especially not in Japanese knives), but because you can get something very good, wrap it nicely, and take it back if she wants to choose something esle -- they have liberal return/exchange policies and you can make it clear to your wife that you have no ego wrapped up in your particular selection.

Many knife geeks are not huge Shun fans. I'm not a knife geek, but having learned what technique I have using German and French knives, I find that most of the Shun knives available around here, or at least the several I've tried, feel a little brittle (which is not to say that they are not durable).

For a hybrid Japanese/Western knife, I really happen to like the Myabi fusion knives that they sell at SLT, precisely because that, while made in Japan using Japanese steel and techniques, they are a sort of middle ground (and I really like the Western style handle, for instance). I have a 10" chef's knife (gyuto) of these and it's been great. Nicely made, tip to tail, somewhat of a French profile on the blade, holds an edge very well -- feels lighter than a German chef's knife but somewhat more substantial than some Japanese knives.

In any line, there's the 8" vs. 10" question -- many chefs say to always go bigger, but some women (not all), including some women chefs, find 10" too large for their preferences and opt for 8.

For German knives, the basic Wusthoff classic and ikon knives are good knives -- don't cost a fortune, are easy enough to sharpen and care for, and will last forever if properly cared for. But if you want a Japanese super steel or style blade, that's not it.

If she likes carbon steel a true Sabatier (do a search on the issue) in carbon steel can be a very good knife at a reasonable price. Also, there's a Bob Kramer-designed carbon steel made by Zwillig in Japan that's supposed to be a manufactured version of his basic custom chef's knife (and not to be confused with the other things with his name on it, which have the same handle). I've read very favorable reviews from knife geeks who were not optimistic going in. These are large knives -- the 10" looks like a freaking sabre. Pricey relative to other kitchen store knives, but really cheap compared to a custom Kramer.

I'm not a fan of Global, but don't have any particular complaint, other than that I haven't liked the feel when I tried them. I think that some chefs like them because they're relatively inexpensive for decent knives (so they don't worry so much about theft) and because, doing many hours of prep every day, they like that the knives are pretty light. But maybe it's just personal preference.

Personally -- hate the ceramic knives I've tried, but maybe that's me, or the particular selection.

[dnades]

gift certificate. how a knife handles and feels to the wielder is paramount. Wife has an 8" japanese knife (damascus stainless) that we picked up over 10 years ago at a knife shop in Freeport ME. My wife has small hands and the knife fit her very well. INCREDIBLE blade. Holds its edge for about a year. Daily use. To this day I have never seen another Japanese knife with the same markings (and boy have I looked). I keep meaning to take a picture and go back to that knife shop in Freeport to find out more info on the maker. It was the last one he had in the store and he'd only gotten four of them at a knife convention he had attended.

[Bradford]

In any line, there's the 8" vs. 10" question -- many chefs say to always go bigger, but some women (not all), including some women chefs, find 10" too large for their preferences and opt for 8.


I think most people prefer a smaller knife until they learn proper technique. I was the same way until I lived with CIA-trained chef for a couple of years and he taught me how to use a knife. Now I use a 10" French knife for almost everything.

My wife was scared of my 10 inch when she met me, but now she handles it just fine.

[Ken Robb]

I think most people prefer a smaller knife until they learn proper technique. I was the same way until I lived with CIA-trained chef for a couple of years and he taught me how to use a knife. Now I use a 10" French knife for almost everything.

My wife was scared of my 10 inch when she met me, but now she handles it just fine.

Am I the only reader who got a DIFFERENT mental image of a guy who learned knife techniques from the CIA? It only took a second or two to remember Culinary Inst. of America rather than Central Intel. Agency. It must be my Army training from so long ago. :)

[yoshirider]

Bad luck to give a knife as a gift. Make sure you tape a penny to it. She should then give the penny back to you so she is buying the knife from you.


i agree with you on this one. giving timepieces are bad luck too...

[aoe]

Since this is the paceline forum - http://kramerknives.com/gallery/

[fogrider]

My wife was scared of my 10 inch when she met me, but now she handles it just fine.

now you're just bragging.

[DukeHorn]

This recent review of chef knives at wired makes me want to check out the Korin for $100 (or so).

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/11/chefs-knives/?pid=2688

[EvanOT]

it is also very individual, much like with bike stuff - there are four components to consider:

1- the aesthetic quality - how does it look, modern, classic, wood handles, etc
2- ergonomics, what handle feels good in my hands might not in yours, or your wifes
3- function - good steel with a well shaped blade. easy to sharpen (another topic in and of itself), etc.
4- type - chefs knife, santoku, paring, utility, etc.

if it's your first foray into nicer knives, my advice is to forget all the brand names, go take a look at a good kitchen store and find something in your price range that satisfies you in the four categories above and just go for it.

As a professional that has used a knife pretty much every day for the past 6 years this is pretty much what I tell everyone when they ask me about knives.

[jds108]

Don't know diddly about kitchen knives but like bike stuff, you see 'ceramic' knives..good idea?

I have a Kyocera chef's knife. The edge is quite nice, but I'm careful with it. The handle however has no weight to it so balance is poor. I have only had it a couple of years, I have no idea how long these go before needing to be resharpened at the factory.

[echelon_john]

Those little Sanelli knives rock. We pick up a few every time we go over there; they're small, light, and actually hold a great edge. Plus they're cheap, so make great camping/bike touring knives.

Our knife drawers have way too many options; we both like to cook, and had our own sets before getting married, and continue to acquire new ones that strike our fancy. A year or so ago I stumbled on Bridge Kitchenware while visiting my sister in Madison, NJ. They were based in NYC for many years, and sell mostly to the restaurant industry.

Anyway, they sell (or at least sold) Gonon-Gironde knives; carbon steel, very thick blade, adequate quality wood handles. The real beauty of these is the blade, which holds an edge incredibly well, and the cost, which iirc was about $75 for an 8" chef's knife and $55 for a 10" slicing knife. Easily the best bang for the buck of any knife purchase I've made.




Bad luck to give a knife as a gift. Make sure you tape a penny to it. She should then give the penny back to you so she is buying the knife from you.

I like any cheap knife that can go in the dishwasher. The ones with the white plastic handle. We have Sanelli knives we bought in Italy, they have a green and orange plastic handle.

I know that's considered sacrilege by many. I prefer a cheap knife that requires frequent sharpening that I can put in the dishwasher. I cook daily for my family. I prepare everything from scratch. When I have more money I might get $$ knives, but I will still put them in the dishwasher.

Again, not a normal thing, but I use kitchen shears to cut lots of things: meats and vegetables. I found some really nice Henkel shears on the side of the road once while out on a 20 mile run. Ran all the way home (10 miles) with them! RUnning with scissors!

I long for a short kitchen light saber.

[fogrider]

thanks for all the advice and links. I've been reading up. I like the carbon blades to hold the sharpness and the low care factor of the stainless. I was in the local shop and it looks like they have some nice stuff but I was kind of overwhelmed. I'm planning on finding some time this week. I like the idea of being able to exchange if the wife wants something else and she can go in and handle some knives.

and yes, I've heard that it's bad luck to give knives a presents...so I'm just not into luck. life if what you make of it and what God has blessed us with. peace.

[bironi]

Since this is the paceline forum - http://kramerknives.com/gallery/

So expand on this link and why, "Since this is the paceline forum". I'm curious because this is a local knife maker that I have read about recently.

Thanks much,
Byron

[hypnos]

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/

[IJWS]

not one of the 'big' players -- but i've had kyocera ceramics for 5 years now. $10 lifetime replacement/sharpenings for as many knives as you own (although i've never needed to)


I agree with thegunner. Once you go ceramic you never go back. If you think about it, most of the qualifiers of traditional knives disappear when a ceramic is introduced. The performance is bar none sol you're basically left to the aesthetics. Of course ceramics are a little ugly. An all black Kyocera with a nicer handle would be a dream come true.

[craptacular]

I agree with thegunner. Once you go ceramic you never go back. If you think about it, most of the qualifiers of traditional knives disappear when a ceramic is introduced. The performance is bar none sol you're basically left to the aesthetics. Of course ceramics are a little ugly. An all black Kyocera with a nicer handle would be a dream come true.

Some of the sames things were said about this bike.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQY2BhOnb5fvXgeYf928MBMMqcye9aSD x7sGHL-2z-hRTvxffItpPAybNex

[Wilkinson4]

My favorite is Messermeister. That said, Brian Baylis is starting to make knives. Nervex lugged?

mIKE

[IJWS]

some of the sames things were said about this bike.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:and9gcqy2bhonb5fvxgeyf928mbmmqcye9asd x7sghl-2z-hrtvxffitppaybnex

zzzzzing!

[AgilisMerlin]

http://media2.apnonline.com.au/img/media/images/2011/04/18/A_080505splKNIFE.feature-image_t460.JPG

[mister]

hey fogrider, what did she end up getting?

[fogrider]

hey fogrider, what did she end up getting?

http://bernalcutlery.com/shop/sakai-kikumori-molybdenum-vanadium-stainless-steel-210mm-gyuto-2
the shop is not close by and we might still exchange it. we were away for the holidays and she just tried it out today...she said its way sharper than the german knives we have and she cut her finger on the heal where the handle meets the blade.

[mister]

thats a good looking knife
bummer about nicking her finger on the heel, it's easy to do. especially while cleaning the knife before putting it away...

[jh_on_the_cape]

I just discovered this local buy makes knives. Relevant because he works at the LBS and has also made custom frames.
I don't know much about knives, but they sure look nice.

https://www.facebook.com/DensmoreKnives

[Tin Turtle]

I have a pretty big selection since I have knives in my kitchen here and in Beijing. I mix and match mostly to get what I want. The better stuff is kept at my home in the U.S. I have some Shun that I like (though I find them less comfortable), Henckels are good and I have some commercial Mundial. In China I have some Victorinox, they are cheaper but work very well.

All knives will hold an edge as long as they are not dirt cheap, and all knives have to be maintained. I use a Spyderco sharpener in China and it works great. In the U.S. I have lots more sharpening options because I have a woodshop.

The main thing is how much she will use it. I cook for large groups, and I cook daily in China (the wife burns water). So there is a LOT of prep that goes on, and when you are wacking up 5 onions, a half a dozen sweet potatoes etc, then comfort really comes into play. Especially if you are doing it day after day. The Shuns are very cool, but the Mundial and the Victorinox are the nicest to use.

[djg]

I just discovered this local buy makes knives. Relevant because he works at the LBS and has also made custom frames.
I don't know much about knives, but they sure look nice.

https://www.facebook.com/DensmoreKnives

Cool looking objects but it's hard to see how those 10" kitchen knives are supposed to be used -- maybe it's the photo, but the handle looks really far from the blade, which makes me wonder what kind of a grip the person is supposed to have. Hatchet? Custom, I reckon, so maybe this is what the customer wanted.