Shimano Appreciation Thread

[beeatnik]

Just built up a bike for the CEO of my company. Over the years, he's raised millions in venture capital but he knows the value of a buck. I went with an Ultegra group and 105 cranks. He's had the same mountain bike for 20 years so he's not really that concerned with weight to stiffness ratios. Anyway, I love Campag and I've saved a few shekels with SRAM but, wow. Wow. Shimano just works. Wish more things in life were that automatic.

[Cat3roadracer]

Shimano does work, and in my opinion no better than 9 speed Dura Ace 7700.

[rustychisel]

Shimano does work, and in my opinion no better than 9 speed Dura Ace 7700.

and 9sp Ultegra. Two of the best 'just get it done' groupsets ever. If only they'd had concealed cables.

Anyway, to the OP. People complain about Shimano ad nauseam but they do their research and product development. Sure, things break and sh1t happens, but at least they don't develop the product over a path strewn with recalls, breakages and consumer dangers. I'm vaguely impressed by their what seems almost stubborn refusal to go to carbon cranksets. They know what they know.

[Fiertetimestwo]

Didn't they do a carbon Dura-Ace crankset a few years ago?

[slidey]

And, no better than 10 speed DA 7800.

Shimano does work, and in my opinion no better than 9 speed Dura Ace 7700.

[pdmtong]

Shimano does work, and in my opinion no better than 9 speed Dura Ace 7700.

try DA9000....walk-off grand slam

[slidey]

In-depth ride report please :help:

try DA9000....walk-off grand slam

[pdmtong]

In-depth ride report please :help:

not much to add other than to personally verify what has already been written in the typical places...hood shape feels great, shifting very light action, especially the FD throw...really short. no issue with 11sp. very very nice.

[aoe]

not much to add other than to personally verify what has already been written in the typical places...hood shape feels great, shifting very light action, especially the FD throw...really short. no issue with 11sp. very very nice.

If their claims prove accurate, the new crank design is pretty darn smart.

[jtakeda]

Im pretty sold on the 7400 group. Completely bomb proof, I've beaten the living heck out of my 7400 group and it keeps going.

[pdmtong]

If their claims prove accurate, the new crank design is pretty darn smart.

I would never claim best ever, BUT it was the design goal to make it the BEST mech group they have ever delivered.

to me that means, unless you have an old group you really like, there is no reason to suss out some used older groups IF you can afford to just buy the new 9000 group

[mtechnica]

Shimano makes some truly quality parts that last and just work.

[mtechnica]

I would never claim best ever, BUT it was the design goal to make it the BEST mech group they have ever delivered.

to me that means, unless you have an old group you really like, there is no reason to suss out some used older groups IF you can afford to just buy the new 9000 group

Exactly, the old stuff was great but the new stuff is, well, super great.

[pdmtong]

Exactly, the old stuff was great but the new stuff is, well, super great.

althoguh I ama campy guy, the new DA9000 is the group that has me re-considering shimano given thinking PF30 frame, and perhaps get me OFF the Di2 or EPS dream. i.e get pretty damn nice shifitng and save $1500 on batteries...

SRAM? works fine too but even the new yaw-FD action, as good as it is, not as nice feeling to me as DA9000

[Llewellyn]

A very happy 9 speed Ultegra user here. It never misses a beat and I've never felt the temptation to "upgrade" to anything else

[Beans]

picked up an ultegra di2 kit at interbike this year and I think it is my new favorite group.

Somewhat disappointed that they released it briefly and now they have moved on to 9000 di2. I don't think they will be coming out with satellite shifters or tt extensions for ultegra.

[jwad]

althoguh I ama campy guy, the new DA9000 is the group that has me re-considering shimano

I agree. I'm sticking with my record 10 for now, but for a future bike, or if i ever where my current group out, DA9000 seems more appealing to me then the 11 speed campy groups.

[dd74]

Shimano's good, no doubt about it. Had Ultegra, Dura Ace, 9, 10 speed, ten speed index down tube shifters.

So why'd I go with Campy? Emotion. :rolleyes:

[soulspinner]

Im a Campy guy, but hats off to Shimano on their DI2 group. Early raves about 9000 DA suggest its at the top for mechanical groups, but with new Red entering the game with ingenious designs at the front der and brakes that still are amazingly light, the next new full bike build will mean Ill have to ride the other two at length before I choose;)

[William]

I still have a DA 8 STI gruppo running that will not die. It's been flawless since day one back in the mid 90's. Just recently had a little sticking in the right lever. I did the WD40 flush and it's back. I won't replace it until it dies.

That's quality my friend.:cool:






William

[old iron rider]

and 9sp Ultegra. Two of the best 'just get it done' groupsets ever. If only they'd had concealed cables.

Anyway, to the OP. People complain about Shimano ad nauseam but they do their research and product development. Sure, things break and sh1t happens, but at least they don't develop the product over a path strewn with recalls, breakages and consumer dangers. I'm vaguely impressed by their what seems almost stubborn refusal to go to carbon cranksets. They know what they know.

Would the 9speed be any better with concealed cables? Thats the complaint? And how can one be vaguely impressed? You are or you aren't. Maybe they did {more than likely}come up with carbon cranks and didn't want a bad reputation. And why is the carbon soooooo much better? Don't be vague. This is the kind of "I'll never be happy with what comes out" attitude. If it only had this or that, or if it weighed just a half a gram less, Id like it. No you wouldn't. Cause when they do all the changes YOU want, and the parts fail, then you'd bitch about that.

[FlashUNC]

Would the 9speed be any better with concealed cables? Thats the complaint? And how can one be vaguely impressed? You are or you aren't. Maybe they did {more than likely}come up with carbon cranks and didn't want a bad reputation. And why is the carbon soooooo much better? Don't be vague. This is the kind of "I'll never be happy with what comes out" attitude. If it only had this or that, or if it weighed just a half a gram less, Id like it. No you wouldn't. Cause when they do all the changes YOU want, and the parts fail, then you'd bitch about that.

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine.

[shovelhd]

In the 80's when Dura-Ace was a fledgling product, Campy was king on the race circuit, and for good reason. It was the best stuff out there at the group level. Other vendors may have had parts that were incrementally better, but not so much better that it made a lot of sense to stray from the group. I raced Campy Super Record with a Record BB and SR pedals.

These days I race Dura-Ace 7900 with an SRAM S975 Quarq crank and Yokozuna cables as the only changes. It just works. I have ridden 7970 and 6770 Di2 and IMO they are even better for what I do, but I will wait until all of the 11 speed stuff shakes out. 9000 looks like a nice improvement, although a significant part of that is the crank which I won't use.

[rccardr]

...rocks.

DA7700 is my personal favorite (in both STI and DT format) but 7400, 6200, 6400, 1050, 5500, 5600, 6500, 6600 all work and are (some 7400 aside) all interchangeable, backwards and forwards in the line.

Yep, 6200 shifting 10 speeds, friction DT:
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/rccardr/85%20Centurion%20Iron%20Man%2057%205/85CenturionIronmasterrightside.jpg
This pic taken prior to cable installation, but you get the idea...
http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/rccardr/85%20Centurion%20Iron%20Man%2057%205/85CenturionIronmanshifters.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

picked up an ultegra di2 kit at interbike this year and I think it is my new favorite group.

Somewhat disappointed that they released it briefly and now they have moved on to 9000 di2. I don't think they will be coming out with satellite shifters or tt extensions for ultegra.

shimano has always done their homework with component groups. Instead of throwing something 'out there', they design, test, then introduce. XTR/XT, current, are great examples. Somewhat dismaying that first gen DA Di2, Ultegra Di2 are going to be somewhat orphaned by 9000 DI2 and the new Ultegra 11s, Di2, with nothing backward compatible. And 9000 mechanical isn't backward compatible with anything, including hubs. I also wish the levers were a bit more serviceable but reliability has gotten better as they troop thru the higher numbers(7600, 7700, 7800, 7900....).

I prefer Campagnolo but nothing wrong with shimano. 9000 isn't cheap tho. I just sold a 9000 wheelset based on 9000 hubs..The $ for the hubs is higher than DT 240...about $700 for the hubset...yowser.

[54ny77]

:banana:

"Now get off my lawn!"

;)

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine.

[texbike]

I made the move from Campy to Shimano in the late 90s and have never looked back. I've flirted with Campagnolo a few more times along the way because I love the history, story, and beauty of it.

However, I stick with Shimano because it just works so nicely. I have 8, 9, and 10 speed DA groups on my bikes and they're ALL incredibly solid. Especially the 7400 series stuff!

Texbike

[nahtnoj]

shimano has always done their homework with component groups. Instead of throwing something 'out there', they design, test, then introduce. XTR/XT, current, are great examples. Somewhat dismaying that first gen DA Di2, Ultegra Di2 are going to be somewhat orphaned by 9000 DI2 and the new Ultegra 11s, Di2, with nothing backward compatible. And 9000 mechanical isn't backward compatible with anything, including hubs. I also wish the levers were a bit more serviceable but reliability has gotten better as they troop thru the higher numbers(7600, 7700, 7800, 7900....).

I prefer Campagnolo but nothing wrong with shimano. 9000 isn't cheap tho. I just sold a 9000 wheelset based on 9000 hubs..The $ for the hubs is higher than DT 240...about $700 for the hubset...yowser.

Wheelsets just require some additional spacers:

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-3-wheels.html

And multiple sources are reporting that current Ultegra Di2 (which has the same wiring as 9070) can be re-flashed to work with 11 speed:

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-2-9070-di2-dura-ace.html

Edit - now I see what you mean - you can't run an 11 speed cassette on a 10 speed hub. We've been using the same hub standard since about 1990. I'm OK with a change.

[54ny77]

i'm just hoping there are adequate parts and availability for the 10 speed stuff several+ years into the future, because i have zero need (or interest) to change/upgrade to 11 speed.

it would seem that won't be much of an issue, based on what you can find on ebay, craigslist, etc.

now, if they come out with a silver/alloy version of 11speed, i'd rethink that position. :)

[that guy]

i'm just hoping there are adequate parts and availability for the 10 speed stuff several+ years into the future

Have no fear. It will be around. I never understood why people get so worked up about this kind of thing. After all, you can still buy a pretty freakin' nice thread-on freewheel hub, can't you?

[54ny77]

the only reason i have some slight concern is because i dealt with this issue on an otherwise terrific 9 speed 7700 group a handful of years ago. loved it, worked great, was immaculate, no complaints whatsoever other than one of the shifters was on its way out, and fast. new or gently used shifters were ridiculously expensive, literally as much as new stuff. maybe it was a fluke at that point in time on ebay/craigslist/et al. who knows. either way, i was put in a position of having to buy old stuff for same price or go with new. so i went with new (10 speed).

Have no fear. It will be around. I never understood why people get so worked up about this kind of thing. After all, you can still buy a pretty freakin' nice thread-on freewheel hub, can't you?

[rccardr]

...and the most expensive part to replace. Not rebuildable, either. These days figure $175-200 to replace both of them.

[54ny77]

Yep, and I bought a then-new entire Ultegra 6600 SL group for literally another $200 or so on sale (it was just before release of 6700 launch, and the shop was getting rid of old stock at stellar pricing). Between that shifter nonsense and the price of NOS 9-speed cassettes, it was a no-brainer to move on.

...and the most expensive part to replace. Not rebuildable, either. These days figure $175-200 to replace both of them.

[DHallerman]

Im pretty sold on the 7400 group. Completely bomb proof, I've beaten the living heck out of my 7400 group and it keeps going.

And the 7400 series cranks, with their straight and thin cold-forged arms, are among the most beautiful cranks ever made.

[vqdriver]

Somewhat dismaying that first gen DA Di2, Ultegra Di2 are going to be somewhat orphaned by 9000 DI2 and the new Ultegra 11s, Di2, with nothing backward compatible. And 9000 mechanical isn't backward compatible with anything, including hubs.

yeah, i was wondering about that. it would be a great move on shimano's part to provide some type of solution for their early adopters. certainly feels like those who put out for first gen di2 are left in the wind. at the very least, a free reprogramming of the levers with a 11sp cassette and RD purchase would seem to make sense.

[pdmtong]

I agree. I'm sticking with my record 10 for now, but for a future bike, or if i ever where my current group out, DA9000 seems more appealing to me then the 11 speed campy groups.

no issues here with 2011 C11, the front der throws in 3 clicks. very light, very smooth. in fact smoother out of the box than my my R10 with 5k on it.

i suspect folks go red due to weight...but now I really think that DA9000 and
Campy 11 are a coin flip...choose based on thumbshifters or hood shape or carbon content

[gdw]

Shimano produces some great products but gets carried away with updating/improving some of their designs. An example is their XT cranksets. In the past 20 years they've manuctured at least 10 distinct models:
M730
737
739 - Fugly
750
751
752
760
770
780
781
785
They've had three different bottom bracket standards, 3 different chainring patterns, and several proprietary chainrings designs. Innovation is good but the constant change gets old when you need to find replacement parts.

[ctcyclistbob]

How does 105 9-speed compare to the Shimano groups being praised here? Quality, performance, durability, etc?

I'm asking because I just bought a bike with 105 9-speed parts on it, although I haven't ridden it yet. I was planning to swap out the parts to higher end Campy, but you never know.

[54ny77]

If my 9 speed Dura Ace shifters were still working, I'd still be riding it.

Never had a group so solidly reliable and not needing a thing other than a fresh cable every once in a great while. For whatever reason, it accommodated a lot of driveline sloppiness and still shifted perfectly, never, or very, very rarely, needing adjustment.

I would guess that similarly good condition 105 is much the same.

[biker72]

I own:
One Seven Titanium Axiom S with Athena 11 Speed
One Specialized Allez with Chorus 10 Speed
One Specialized CX bike with Ultegra/DuraAce 10 Speed mix.

They all shift fine....:)

[bluesea]

no issues here with 2011 C11, the front der throws in 3 clicks. very light, very smooth. in fact smoother out of the box than my my R10 with 5k on it.

i suspect folks go red due to weight...but now I really think that DA9000 and
Campy 11 are a coin flip...choose based on thumbshifters or hood shape or carbon content


Don't you think Campy falls behind with its longish right side lever throw?

[Llewellyn]

i'm just hoping there are adequate parts and availability for the 10 speed stuff several+ years into the future, because i have zero need (or interest) to change/upgrade to 11 speed.



I've stockpiled 9 speed gear for the same reason, and also while I've got the cash

[Llewellyn]

How does 105 9-speed compare to the Shimano groups being praised here? Quality, performance, durability, etc?

I'm asking because I just bought a bike with 105 9-speed parts on it, although I haven't ridden it yet. I was planning to swap out the parts to higher end Campy, but you never know.


I think the anecdotal evidence is that it works well, it's just a bit heavier than Ultegra or DA.

I'd ride it if / until (emphasis on the "if") something breaks

[pdmtong]

Don't you think Campy falls behind with its longish right side lever throw?

while true, the bigger deal of course is fixed or rotating brake lever.
I like the campy thumb shift approach - but just saying DA9000 is sooo nice it may well sway me back to S for the next build

[Louis]

How does 105 9-speed compare to the Shimano groups being praised here? Quality, performance, durability, etc?

I'm asking because I just bought a bike with 105 9-speed parts on it, although I haven't ridden it yet. I was planning to swap out the parts to higher end Campy, but you never know.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wouldn't change it to modern Campy or Shimano just to go to newer stuff. As long as it works I'd stick to it. I've used 9-spd 105 stuff for ages without any issues. When things start to wear out (happens to everything eventually) and you have problems finding replacement parts, that's the time to start thinking about upgrading. As long as you keep it running, then I'd stay leave it as is.

[bluesea]

while true, the bigger deal of course is fixed or rotating brake lever.
I like the campy thumb shift approach - but just saying DA9000 is sooo nice it may well sway me back to S for the next build


Ah well, I'll probably have to bite the bullet and eventually buy my first Dura Ace group.

[pdmtong]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I wouldn't change it to modern Campy or Shimano just to go to newer stuff. As long as it works I'd stick to it. I've used 9-spd 105 stuff for ages without any issues. When things start to wear out (happens to everything eventually) and you have problems finding replacement parts, that's the time to start thinking about upgrading. As long as you keep it running, then I'd stay leave it as is.

i'd agree...new build = new stuff

old build...if it works just keep it going....

[jtakeda]

And the 7400 series cranks, with their straight and thin cold-forged arms, are among the most beautiful cranks ever made.

It's funny this thread popped back up to the top.

Just started to notice a crack on my 7400 cranks!

Looking for a replacement.

[oldpotatoe]

Wheelsets just require some additional spacers:

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-3-wheels.html

And multiple sources are reporting that current Ultegra Di2 (which has the same wiring as 9070) can be re-flashed to work with 11 speed:

http://fairwheelbikes.com/cycling-blog/updates-and-news/shimano-2013-part-2-9070-di2-dura-ace.html

Edit - now I see what you mean - you can't run an 11 speed cassette on a 10 speed hub. We've been using the same hub standard since about 1990. I'm OK with a change.

I'm sure somebody with knowledge of wires and who has a soldering iron can do all sorts of mods/hacks to electronic but the wiring harness, altho similar, is not the same as 9070, told by Wayne Stetina. It's not out yet so not sure how fairwheel can say it can be hacked.

[oldpotatoe]

Have no fear. It will be around. I never understood why people get so worked up about this kind of thing. After all, you can still buy a pretty freakin' nice thread-on freewheel hub, can't you?

Campag still makes 8s cogsets as does shimano. What you won't find is higher end stuff, made new, like DA 9s cogsets or Record, etc. But they are consumables anyway.

[nahtnoj]

I'm sure somebody with knowledge of wires and who has a soldering iron can do all sorts of mods/hacks to electronic but the wiring harness, altho similar, is not the same as 9070, told by Wayne Stetina. It's not out yet so not sure how fairwheel can say it can be hacked.

I'm just trying to interpret what I'm reading. My understanding is that the *wires* are the same, but the 9070 stuff has more potential for accessory shifters - TT, climbing, etc. - than Ultegra does. Is the part about the wires at least correct?

[shovelhd]

9070 has a couple more ports on the shifter module in order to accommodate multiple shifters. However, this stuff isn't rocket science. Pro Tour mechanics had bikes with sprint and climbing shifters grafted onto 7970 systems. The difference is pay, plug and play versus hack your own.

[cfox]

I'm heavily invested in DA 10 speed (SRM), so I have no plans/need/desire to go to 11 speed. We are actually in the hoarder's sweet spot for 10 speed stuff. There is still a lot of 10 speed stuff on the shelves and shops/e-tailers need room for 11 speed stuff. I just bought a bunch of DA chains for $45 bucks.

[shovelhd]

So am I (Quarq, Powertap) and so is most of the racing community. Neutral support is going to get interesting. Around here it is mainly provided by SRAM.

[moose8]

I'm a big fan after I had an issue with a chain which broke and caused some other issues. Shimano replaced everything and then some to make up for the hassle the whole thing caused. Their customer service was excellent, and I was glad to see that when I finally needed it, it was there. Of course most of their stuff seems to just work so I had never needed any support before. I've been using their fishing reels my whole life and they also work great with virtually no maintenance.

[weisan]

I a