Parlee Z5 test ride

[mcteague]

While I love the ride of my 10 year old Seven Axiom, I still get the urge for something new. And, Parlee was always my first choice if I were to go carbon. So, when I found that "All American Bikes (http://aabikes.com/)", in Damascus MD, had a test Z5 in my size I arranged a test ride. Their shop is about a one hour drive from me. The Large, with extended head tube, was very close to the dimensions of my custom Seven and the owner of aabikes, Matt, did a great job of setting it up to match my bike. So, with 60 degree temps, I had a perfect day for a test ride on the back roads of Damascus.

The good: I loved how the stiff BB make it really fun on the climbs. I saw one review where the guy said the bike flew effortlessly up climbs. What nonsense, no bike goes up hills without effort but the Z5 did feel very stiff.
I also read how the Z5 had a really comfortable ride as opposed to most stiff carbon bikes. While not plush, and not as smooth as my bike, it was not bad on the rough sections of pavement.

The not so good: My Ti bike seemed to communicate the road surface better while, at the same time, ride much more smoothly. I feel much more at one with my bike and I don't think that is just due to familiarity.

The brake cable rubbed my knee often and, worse, my left knee kept smacking the top tube when climbing. My knees do track very close to the frame and the Parlee TT is just enough fatter to make trouble. I know most carbon frames are fatter still.

It also did not steer as well. Not bad, but a tad twitchy, and I had to pay more attention. No hands riding was not nearly as stable.

So, guess I'll stay put for the foreseeable future. I am grateful to Matt for allowing me the chance to test the Parlee. From everything I had read before the test I was sure I was going to love it and pull out my credit card. Maybe there is just something special, after all, with metal bikes! Just the right amount of feel to make them an extension of your body.

Tim

[54ny77]

i know lots of guys with z5's and the most frequent comments are that it's a little twitchier, stiffer, and more race oriented than the z4 (which i had and was quick but still very plush and i loved it).

what it's designed for, it does well. mind you , the guys i know who have them will train hard for 100 miles on 'em, not ride 100 miles taking in the scenery at a nice pace. different tool for different school.

[Fishbike]

Very nice and interesting real world report by a real world cyclist

[esldude]

Have seen a comment that ti frames turn surface texture into a vibration that sings to the rider and enhances feel. Alu frames turn surface texture into a buzz that annoys and tires out the rider. Carbon frames tend to dampen out road texture.

I am sure that isn't universal, the frame builder can make a difference. But seems to generally be an overall direction of character. Seems to me steel can either be a bit buzzy, or similar to ti when just right, or in the case of older bikes something in between.

[Pete Mckeon]

Rode one, while workingat Ride the Rockies year before last. It climbed and descended nicely.

Carbon felt different that ti or steel. :bike:

[krhea]

I have a Serotta Legend Ti, Merlin Ti, Colnago CT-1 Ti and have owned many other ti frames. I also own a number of higher end steel and carbon bikes. I purchased a Z5 a year ago and in the past year I've only ridden one of my ti bikes, the Colnago and two of my steel bikes, the CDA and the Fondriest perhaps a couple times.

To me the Z5 offers the best of all worlds and does it better than any bike I've ever ridden. It was incredibly comfortable on numerous 100+ plus days, it had "spunk" when I would mix it up with the younger and much faster riders in the club, it climbed extremely well and descended fast twistys without nary a "pucker moment". Comparing it to other carbon bikes I own or have ridden the Z5 has by far the best road feel and when compared to my ti rides I'll almost always reach for the Z5. I had one occasion last summer where we went exploring and ran into 40+ miles of the worst chip seal we'd ever experienced and I have to say I wished for a steel or ti bike but that was and is an anomaly around here and most places.
It's almost a jeckle n hyde bike in a very good way. I had a number of friends use one for 7days of Cycle Oregon and rave about the comfort and I have two good friends, male and female who blasted through crits and road races all summer on Z5s.

I'm not a big fan of anything being shouted about being "the best" and I certainly wouldn't make that claim about the Z5, however, in my 35+yrs of riding this is the first bike I've owned that actually makes me think, "you know, this is the only bike I really need other than a fendered steed and I'd be satisfied". That thought coming from a multi-bike owning certified bike geek. I know, crazy talk.

That's how much I like my Z5. I've often thought of buying a used Z5, taking it either to Ruckus carbon works or sending it to Calfee, having fender mounts attached and adding a "foul weather" Z5 to my "fair weather" Z5 and I'd be a very happy satisfied man.

[pdmtong]

I have a Serotta Legend Ti, Merlin Ti, Colnago CT-1 Ti and have owned many other ti frames. I also own a number of higher end steel and carbon bikes. I purchased a Z5 a year ago and in the past year I've only ridden one of my ti bikes, the Colnago and two of my steel bikes, the CDA and the Fondriest perhaps a couple times.

To me the Z5 offers the best of all worlds and does it better than any bike I've ever ridden. It was incredibly comfortable on numerous 100+ plus days, it had "spunk" when I would mix it up with the younger and much faster riders in the club, it climbed extremely well and descended fast twistys without nary a "pucker moment". Comparing it to other carbon bikes I own or have ridden the Z5 has by far the best road feel and when compared to my ti rides I'll almost always reach for the Z5. I had one occasion last summer where we went exploring and ran into 40+ miles of the worst chip seal we'd ever experienced and I have to say I wished for a steel or ti bike but that was and is an anomaly around here and most places.
It's almost a jeckle n hyde bike in a very good way. I had a number of friends use one for 7days of Cycle Oregon and rave about the comfort and I have two good friends, male and female who blasted through crits and road races all summer on Z5s.

I'm not a big fan of anything being shouted about being "the best" and I certainly wouldn't make that claim about the Z5, however, in my 35+yrs of riding this is the first bike I've owned that actually makes me think, "you know, this is the only bike I really need other than a fendered steed and I'd be satisfied". That thought coming from a multi-bike owning certified bike geek. I know, crazy talk.

That's how much I like my Z5. I've often thought of buying a used Z5, taking it either to Ruckus carbon works or sending it to Calfee, having fender mounts attached and adding a "foul weather" Z5 to my "fair weather" Z5 and I'd be a very happy satisfied man.

Parlee buils a superb bike. per parlee, Z5 is aid to deliver same ride characteristic as Z3 but lighter and asian not usa made.

My Z3c is all day comfy and snaps to attention when I give it the gas. like kevn, I own a few other high end frames. steel maybe a bit plusher, but I am giving up significant weight that I notice when accelerating. I'd say its a toss between my ottrott and the Z3 for comfort.

rode the Z3 for the levi gran fondo. got off, felt great.

appreciate the OP opinion; my experience has been different

[Jack Brunk]

Totally agree with Krhea and pdmtong, it's carbon road frames for me as well. I love the metals but for road it's carbon by a huge margin. Most good carbon makers understand BB stiffness and a tad of vertical compliance is a winning combo.

Now for single track it's not even close as both titanium and steel are far better materials. Both ti and steel have a connection with dirt that lacks in a carbon frame. Carbon frame makers are still a ways away from getting the stiffness/compliance blend needed in a off road frame. Not to say they can't but at this point none of the carbon frames have been close to either my Firefly or Primus Mootry.
I'm sure I'll get flamed but sorry it's my opinon and I can back it up with actual mileage on them all. Not really sure why I posted this but what the hell.

[gemship]

Have seen a comment that ti frames turn surface texture into a vibration that sings to the rider and enhances feel. Alu frames turn surface texture into a buzz that annoys and tires out the rider. Carbon frames tend to dampen out road texture.

I am sure that isn't universal, the frame builder can make a difference. But seems to generally be an overall direction of character. Seems to me steel can either be a bit buzzy, or similar to ti when just right, or in the case of older bikes something in between.

I have read all these comments too. I only own two road bikes and both have compact geometry and are off the shelf frames of 54cm size.

My Aluminum bike with a longer head tube has me more upright plus with it's longer wheel base,different headtube angle feels less twitchy and seems to soak up the road with no real problems on my part feeling fatigued if any it could be blamed on the saddle or the tire pressure.

My carbon bike is a bit more compact and racier with a much shorter headtube and chainstays. It's twitchy with the quick steering nature and very stiff with its massive bb. Probably a lot like the z5 as it's a r3sl. Different material but it's the geometry that has it feeling like a racebike. Honestly I prefer a more relaxed geometry of the aluminum bike and even if I were to race I would think with the right wheel choice,tires,psi,seat and a extra layer of bar tape that bike is every bit as good as any just because. OTOH my r3sl is a bike I could easily grow into, just need to ride it more and get used to it.

To the OP a test ride is nice but we humans adapt, I imagine you could find love with the z5 if you could spend more time with it.

[mcteague]

To the OP a test ride is nice but we humans adapt, I imagine you could find love with the z5 if you could spend more time with it.

Perhaps so. However, I am not willing to take a $7k chance. Plus, see the part where my left knee keeps hitting the TT when climbing out of the saddle. I'm not putting down carbon and think the Z5 would be a great bike for lots of riders, and is. I just know that if I had it, and my Seven, the Seven would be the one I would ride most days. It just feels like a part of me. It can be stable enough for easy no hands riding but turns quickly and precisely. I had never ridden a new high-end carbon bike so wanted to see what I was missing, if anything. And I thought readers might find my experience interesting. Magazine reviews love everything they touch.

With regards to road feel; Ti and steel do appear to give you more of a connected to the road experience. From what I read, and felt on yesterday's ride, carbon has a slight disconnected feel. Maybe that is where more riding would help. One of the things I like best about my Axiom is how it communicates the sense of riding on the road while, at the same time, muting the rough sections. Still, fun stuff. Wish I had more chances like this to compare bikes.

Tim

[jpw]

Totally agree with Krhea and pdmtong, it's carbon road frames for me as well. I love the metals but for road it's carbon by a huge margin. Most good carbon makers understand BB stiffness and a tad of vertical compliance is a winning combo.

Now for single track it's not even close as both titanium and steel are far better materials. Both ti and steel have a connection with dirt that lacks in a carbon frame. Carbon frame makers are still a ways away from getting the stiffness/compliance blend needed in a off road frame. Not to say they can't but at this point none of the carbon frames have been close to either my Firefly or Primus Mootry.
I'm sure I'll get flamed but sorry it's my opinon and I can back it up with actual mileage on them all. Not really sure why I posted this but what the hell.

...and for gravel road strade bianca riding which is 'best'? does carbon stand up to stones?

[oldpotatoe]

While I love the ride of my 10 year old Seven Axiom, I still get the urge for something new. And, Parlee was always my first choice if I were to go carbon. So, when I found that "All American Bikes (http://aabikes.com/)", in Damascus MD, had a test Z5 in my size I arranged a test ride. Their shop is about a one hour drive from me. The Large, with extended head tube, was very close to the dimensions of my custom Seven and the owner of aabikes, Matt, did a great job of setting it up to match my bike. So, with 60 degree temps, I had a perfect day for a test ride on the back roads of Damascus.

The good: I loved how the stiff BB make it really fun on the climbs. I saw one review where the guy said the bike flew effortlessly up climbs. What nonsense, no bike goes up hills without effort but the Z5 did feel very stiff.
I also read how the Z5 had a really comfortable ride as opposed to most stiff carbon bikes. While not plush, and not as smooth as my bike, it was not bad on the rough sections of pavement.

The not so good: My Ti bike seemed to communicate the road surface better while, at the same time, ride much more smoothly. I feel much more at one with my bike and I don't think that is just due to familiarity.

The brake cable rubbed my knee often and, worse, my left knee kept smacking the top tube when climbing. My knees do track very close to the frame and the Parlee TT is just enough fatter to make trouble. I know most carbon frames are fatter still.

It also did not steer as well. Not bad, but a tad twitchy, and I had to pay more attention. No hands riding was not nearly as stable.

So, guess I'll stay put for the foreseeable future. I am grateful to Matt for allowing me the chance to test the Parlee. From everything I had read before the test I was sure I was going to love it and pull out my credit card. Maybe there is just something special, after all, with metal bikes! Just the right amount of feel to make them an extension of your body.

Tim

This post has nothing to do with the advantages or disadvantages of Parlee, nothing about material differences or pluses or minuses. MY point is that demo rides, long ones, from dealers who are taken care of by manufacturers, are essential. So a prospective buyer can answer the question, 'how does that frame ride??'

Having demo bikes is an expensive project for any bicycle shop. So when they decide to take the plunge it had better reap rewards, from the customer and from the manufacturer.The end user customer often buys the bike shop as well as the bicycle, bike shops buy the manufacturer along with their product. Many great bike frames out there, but there is something to be said about a mutually beneficial, long term relationship between the 'customer' and bike stuff 'provider'.

This is related to one or more of the other threads goin' on right now in this forum.

IMHO-of course.

[Gummee]

Perhaps so. However, I am not willing to take a $7k chance. Plus, see the part where my left knee keeps hitting the TT when climbing out of the saddle.Tim
as the owner of several different types (AL, CF, FE) of bikes, you learn to pedal the bike you're on. That 'hitting the TT' thing goes away after you've spent time on the bike.

M

[gemship]

Perhaps so. However, I am not willing to take a $7k chance. Plus, see the part where my left knee keeps hitting the TT when climbing out of the saddle. I'm not putting down carbon and think the Z5 would be a great bike for lots of riders, and is. I just know that if I had it, and my Seven, the Seven would be the one I would ride most days. It just feels like a part of me. It can be stable enough for easy no hands riding but turns quickly and precisely. I had never ridden a new high-end carbon bike so wanted to see what I was missing, if anything. And I thought readers might find my experience interesting. Magazine reviews love everything they touch.

With regards to road feel; Ti and steel do appear to give you more of a connected to the road experience. From what I read, and felt on yesterday's ride, carbon has a slight disconnected feel. Maybe that is where more riding would help. One of the things I like best about my Axiom is how it communicates the sense of riding on the road while, at the same time, muting the rough sections. Still, fun stuff. Wish I had more chances like this to compare bikes.

Tim

7k is a lot of bucks for that bike. You'll get no arguement from me. It really is a race bike anyways. Just to relate to Oldpotatoe's post. I was feeling flush with cash back in 07' when I purchased the r3sl. The total build cost me 5k and that was just a rediculous amount of money for me to spend looking back on it. The mechanic/salesman did a nice job building it but wasn't very nice to deal with. He wasn't honest, for ex. I didn't do my homework and google the brand so led me to believe the bike was made in Canada. I honestly thought that it was. It's really a Canadian based company or at least then it was with the manufacturing done in China, not that there is anything wrong with that but I just prefer my bucks to stay in the continent and don't like being misled.
Since I bought it the dealer had problems with the brand and claims the brand dropped him rather rudely because he wasn't part of their business model. Shortly after buying the bike the salesman that sold it to me acted a bit bipolar engaging me in conversation then rudely ignoring me when attractive women came into the shop. For some reason he seemed to connect with me in a way that had him misled to the fact that I wasn't just another paying customer and all business. That lbs lost my business for good. I decided I am not a racer boy and if I had it to do all over again I would take the money I spent on that carbon geewhiz wonder bike and spent it on a custom lugged touring bike or nothing at all. Relationships are important. I like the bike but its become a conversation piece that collects dust daily.I will say however when I was riding it regularly for two weeks straight and I did this a couple years in a row I really got used to it, the compact racer cockpit that is with the twitchy handling and I felt fast as hell.

[fuzzalow]

Interesting review, thanks mcteague for bringing this to the table.

I firmly believe that it is difficult to know how a bike really handles until it is dialed in, both rider position-wise and weight along-the-axles-wise, but will set this aside as this doesn't take away from anything you wrote in your review. It's just another subtlety. Plus, maybe you're one of those guys that can climb onto almost any bike and hit their marks.

I agree about, and there's no denying, the difference in road feel between titanium and carbon. Big difference, totally different.

WRT, taking a $7K chance, man, all of this stuff to some degree is a leap of faith. But IMO the better you know yourself & your fit numbers, the odds become much better in not making a mistake. The knowledge of your fit transforms the scenario from being one of chance to one of calculation.:)

I'd like to have a Parlee made up that replicates the geo of one of my bikes.

[Lionel]

What wheels and tires are you using on your Seven and what wheels and tires were on the Z5 ? That's a pretty critical piece of information assuming the the positions were the same on both bikes.

[Jack Brunk]

...and for gravel road strade bianca riding which is 'best'? does carbon stand up to stones?

I don't ride on gravel with my BH or Gran Paradiso. If I go off road it's on one of my 29ers. I probably would go with some sort of metal bike for a gravel bike but that's just me.

[veloduffer]

This post has nothing to do with the advantages or disadvantages of Parlee, nothing about material differences or pluses or minuses. MY point is that demo rides, long ones, from dealers who are taken care of by manufacturers, are essential. So a prospective buyer can answer the question, 'how does that frame ride??'

Having demo bikes is an expensive project for any bicycle shop. So when they decide to take the plunge it had better reap rewards, from the customer and from the manufacturer.The end user customer often buys the bike shop as well as the bicycle, bike shops buy the manufacturer along with their product. Many great bike frames out there, but there is something to be said about a mutually beneficial, long term relationship between the 'customer' and bike stuff 'provider'.

This is related to one or more of the other threads goin' on right now in this forum.

IMHO-of course.

This is an excellent point and often under appreciated. I bought my Parlee Z4 from a bike shop after demoing their Z4 and Z5 that day. Both bikes were spec'd similarly and having the chance to ride one after the other was really helpful. I was looking for a ride that had some "snap" or instant acceleration when you got out of the saddle, especially in the hills. You wouldn't easily as ascertain that without a test ride.

The shop was new and having 2 Parlees as demos was a major investment. The shop is a 45 minute drive from my home, as it is the closest Parlee dealer. The owner is clearly passionate about cycling, very accommodating and in the end he gave me a really nice price. I am on his email list and he has become very involved in both road and cross riding scene in the town -- a real asset to the cycling community.

[jpw]

I don't ride on gravel with my BH or Gran Paradiso. If I go off road it's on one of my 29ers. I probably would go with some sort of metal bike for a gravel bike but that's just me.

I think I would do the same.

[krhea]

7k is a lot of bucks for that bike. You'll get no arguement from me. It really is a race bike anyways.


You sir are obviously not familiar with the Parlee Z5 if you think it's "a race bike anyways."

That's not at all how Parlee markets that bike and you'll see few if any Z5s being raced. The two folks I mentioned racing on them are riders who only own one bike so they have no choice but to race their Z5s.

On the other hand here's a pic of the bike you chose, an R3SL in full on "race regalia"...a bike I might add that is pimped as being a race bike...jus sayin'

[OTB]

This bike descends phenomenally - stable and predictable. That is probably the best aspect of the bike for me.

106914

[gemship]

You sir are obviously not familiar with the Parlee Z5 if you think it's "a race bike anyways."

That's not at all how Parlee markets that bike and you'll see few if any Z5s being raced. The two folks I mentioned racing on them are riders who only own one bike so they have no choice but to race their Z5s.

On the other hand here's a pic of the bike you chose, an R3SL in full on "race regalia"...a bike I might add that is pimped as being a race bike...jus sayin'

c'mon give it a rest...when they make a bike that has that magic formula of stiffness for weight transfer yet stupid silly light and able to absorb the shocks of riding tarmac for tens of miles well into a century then its fit to ride in a tour and probably able to a one day classic and or a crit. Not that there is anything wrong with that:rolleyes:

[mcteague]

To answer various comments:
The Z5 had very similar dimensions as my custom Seven. Frame angles, CS length, BB drop and fork rake were identical. TT was 8mm shorter and the HT was about 5 mm shorter. The owner matched the setup with my bike.

Wheels on the demo were not a nice as mine; Mavic Askium with 23 tires vs my DT 240\RR 1.1 with 25 tires.

The Z5 TT was fatter and lower down as compared to my bike. My left knee tracks funny when climbing at times. On my bike, the TT is more narrow and a bit higher. So, my thigh brushes the tube very slightly sometimes. On the Parlee it kept hitting it so I ended up with a bit of a bruise on the knee's boney protrusion. Maybe getting a custom orthotic would help matters.

So, and again, I am not saying anything bad about Parlee. I was just trying to let you know how I thought they compared. Oldpotatoe is right, the ride is what I was on about. It is a shame to spend so many thousands of dollars on high-end bikes w\o riding the things. If I really loved the overall ride I could work around the nits. The fact that it did not ring my bell was the overall point.

If I wanted to buy a bike that looked really good and still be carbon, or mostly, I would like a Seven 622 SLX. I love the look of that bike. But, so much money. At least it is made here. I still have issues with spending over 6 grand for a bike whose frame comes out of China.

Tim