Cyclist killed in Truck Chase (Albany)

[djg21]

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Bicyclist-killed-in-truck-chase-identified-4063474.php

[thegunner]

an escaped convict this time -- this almost makes it worse :(

[mike p]

Unfreaking believable.....I don't even know what to say.

Mike

[malcolm]

just throw away the key

[djg21]

dupe

[ultraman6970]

How you can be riding a bike at 1am? kind'a late and pretty cold, either way the guy should get a nasty punishment IMO.

[Aaron O]

When I was younger I rode a bike that late frequently. What exactly is the issue?

[ultraman6970]

Is dark?

[Louis]

In addition to cyclists having the right to ride at any time of day or night, it's quite possible that the bicyclist was riding not by choice, like most of us, but because that was his only option other than walking.

Having said that, unless you've spent big bucks on lights, it is more difficult for drivers to see bikes at night, whether the drivers are hardened criminals being chased by the police or not.

[ultraman6970]

That was part of why I was wondering why the guy was riding at 1am, darn, cold... who knows and that why I find it weird, well he had the right to ride whenever but 1am even with lights is too dangerous IMO. More over if the guy was going like a rocketship fast driving the truck maybe he straight forward did not see him.

I see a lot of workers riding at night around here and some are using lights but even with that if the streets are pitch black with no streets illumination if you are not paying attention you perfectly can send one to heaven.

[Aaron O]

That was part of why I was wondering why the guy was riding at 1am, darn, cold... who knows and that why I find it weird, well he had the right to ride whenever but 1am even with lights is too dangerous IMO. More over if the guy was going like a rocketship fast driving the truck maybe he straight forward did not see him.

I see a lot of workers riding at night around here and some are using lights but even with that if the streets are pitch black with no streets illumination if you are not paying attention you perfectly can send one to heaven.

Your comment is ridiculous, there is nothing weird or wrong with riding at night. In fact I think it's safer in some cases; there are fewer drivers and I think a lit cyclist is more noticeable at night.

Asking why the guy who was run over by a criminal was riding at night is akin to asking what a woman was wearing after a rape. I hope you're smarter than that.

[Louis]

In fact I think it's safer in some cases; there are fewer drivers and I think a lit cyclist is more noticeable at night.

I agree with the "in some cases."

Regarding the "more noticeable at night," I think that too is in some cases. I can imagine other cases (some traffic on road with no shoulders, but lots of distractions) when a driver might not be able to distinguish the cyclist's taillight from the other visual clutter. Of course, many times driver's don't see a cyclist in broad daylight, so who knows.

I've considered riding at night near my home (dark, narrow, curvy roads with little traffic after 8 PM) and figure that in order to do it safely I'd need a bunch of lumens front and back.

[Jack Brunk]

I can't tell you how many nights at 1am that I've been on the road training for ultra endurnace races. I think you need to think a little more before you post. I always found it amazing how many people do ride late at night. There is definitely less cars on the road.

It's a very tragic thing that road riding has become.

[Jack Brunk]

In addition to cyclists having the right to ride at any time of day or night, it's quite possible that the bicyclist was riding not by choice, like most of us, but because that was his only option other than walking.

Having said that, unless you've spent big bucks on lights, it is more difficult for drivers to see bikes at night, whether the drivers are hardened criminals being chased by the police or not.

Really?

2 hundred bucks for a tail light that's as bright as any out there is too much?
You have a Kirk frame and parts that in the scheme of things makes a good tail light pretty cheap. It's all relative.

[oliver1850]

That was part of why I was wondering why the guy was riding at 1am, darn, cold... who knows and that why I find it weird, well he had the right to ride whenever but 1am even with lights is too dangerous IMO. More over if the guy was going like a rocketship fast driving the truck maybe he straight forward did not see him.

I see a lot of workers riding at night around here and some are using lights but even with that if the streets are pitch black with no streets illumination if you are not paying attention you perfectly can send one to heaven.

After 10 PM or so is the safest time to ride around here, there is nobody on the roads. I feel safer after dark, because I can tell where the vehicles are. If someone comes up behind, I may take to the ditch, but often can do 10 -20 miles without getting passed after dark.

[Louis]

Really?

2 hundred bucks for a tail light that's as bright as any out there is too much?
You have a Kirk frame and parts that in the scheme of things makes a good tail light pretty cheap. It's all relative.

Hey Jack,

Depends on your budget. We don't know anything about the rider who was hit. Guys who ride because they can't afford a car might not have the $ for fancy lights.

Our budgets may be different from other folks.

[djg21]

Your comment is ridiculous, there is nothing weird or wrong with riding at night. In fact I think it's safer in some cases; there are fewer drivers and I think a lit cyclist is more noticeable at night.

Asking why the guy who was run over by a criminal was riding at night is akin to asking what a woman was wearing after a rape. I hope you're smarter than that.

He had every right to ride at night. No one can dispute that.

But to suggest that riding at night is not dangerous, or is less dangerous than riding during daylight hours, is silly.

The fact is that drivers do not expect to see cyclists at night, and cyclists are harder to see at night irrespective of lighting that may be used. Riding on Friday night/Saturday early morning, at 1:00AM, is especially dangerous given that many drivers likely are on the way home from local drinking establishments. BTW, Manning Blvd., where this accident occurred, connects a number of major thoroughfares where numerous bars and restaurants are located.

[Jack Brunk]

Hey Jack,

Depends on your budget. We don't know anything about the rider who was hit. Guys who ride because they can't afford a car might not have the $ for fancy lights.

Our budgets may be different from other folks.

100 percent correct. I was only commenting on your comment. God rest his soul. Great lighting is relatively cheap compared to most other parts.

[djg21]

Hey Jack,

Depends on your budget. We don't know anything about the rider who was hit. Guys who ride because they can't afford a car might not have the $ for fancy lights.

Our budgets may be different from other folks.

Saw video of the bike on the local news. It looked to be an inexpensive ATB/City bike with platform pedals.

[scooter]

I used to get off work at 1:30 AM and ride my bike home.

[gdw]

"Riding on Friday night/Saturday early morning, at 1:00AM, is especially dangerous given that many drivers likely are on the way home from local drinking establishments."

Too true. There are fewer cars on the road late at night but the percentage of impaired drivers is much higher. The most dangerous time is between 11:00pm and an hour after last call.

[Aaron O]

He had every right to ride at night. No one can dispute that.

But to suggest that riding at night is not dangerous, or is less dangerous than riding during daylight hours, is silly.

The fact is that drivers do not expect to see cyclists at night, and cyclists are harder to see at night irrespective of lighting that may be used. Riding on Friday night/Saturday early morning, at 1:00AM, is especially dangerous given that many drivers likely are on the way home from local drinking establishments. BTW, Manning Blvd., where this accident occurred, connects a number of major thoroughfares where numerous bars and restaurants are located.

Bull crap. Show me a study indicating a higher percentage of incidents for night riders using decent lighting. You don't need a $200 light either, a turbo super flash has great visibility. All of my incidents were during the day; a cyclist with lighting stands out more at night and there are fewer over all drivers. The down side is a higher risk of drunks - but that can be mitigated somewhat with road choice. You're trading obstacles, but I'll take night riders. I'll take my chances with the drunks over the greater volume and texters rushing to work, aggravated by sitting in traffic.

As Louis said - much of this is situational, but assuming an inherent risk to night riding is absurd. You're welcome to feel safer during the day, but mentioning or questioning he rider's behavior in an incident like this is offensive.

[thegunner]

i specifically ride at 9 pm home (not because i like staying late at work), but if you try riding through NYC during rush hour -- you're just begging for something bad to happen. riding at night most certainly can be safer.

[djg21]

Bull crap. Show me a study indicating a higher percentage of incidents for night riders using decent lighting. You don't need a $200 light either, a turbo super flash has great visibility. All of my incidents were during the day; a cyclist with lighting stands out more at night and there are fewer over all drivers. The down side is a higher risk of drunks - but that can be mitigated somewhat with road choice. You're trading obstacles, but I'll take night riders. I'll take my chances with the drunks over the greater volume and texters rushing to work,
As Louis said - much of this is situational, but assuming an inherent risk to night riding is absurd.

Please show me a study yourself.

If you really believe you are safer riding during night-time hours, be my guest. Sure, a light and blinking LED may help make you more visible. But you still are not as visible as you are during daylight hours. I don't need a study to establish what should be common sense.

BTW, drivers under the influence often are detected because they tend to drive into oncoming lights. So that makes your fancy lighting system a very expensive bulls-eye for drunken drivers.

I'm not saying don't do it. But don't delude yourself into believing it is safer either.

[Louis]

Seems to me that the only semi-accurate way to resolve this is real numbers: accidents / mile ridden, day vs night. I know of no such study (not that I've looked) so I guess we're stuck speculating.

[pdmtong]

what does it matter? the guy is dead.

plenty of people riding thier bikes, hit by cars, now dead.

drivers texting

drivers drunk

drivers angry

drivers distracted

drivers didnt see the cyclist

stupid cyclist errors. see that all the time while driving. is it really safe to make a u turn across 50mph traffic on a blind crest of a hill? I guess not. which is why I see a little monumnet on my weekday ride. idiot.

flashing light, safety vest, safe practices...it might help. it might not.

all we can do is our best to not place ourselves in harms way.

the rest is all statistical. and it doesnt matter if 98% of the time doing xyz makes you safe, if you happen to be that 2% one day (or night)

[gdw]

No one is posting stats on whether the deceased riders were using quality lights but in 2010 26% of all the fatal cycling accidents occurred between 9:00pm-6:00am.
2009 - 25%.
2008 - 28%.
2007 - 27%
2006 - 27%
2005 - 26%

Over 20% of the fatalities in all of those years occurred between 6-9:00pm.

Source - http://www.iihs.org/research/topics/bicycles.html

Since there are very few cyclists on the road between 9:00pm-6:00am it's obvious that riding after dark is more dangerous than riding during the day.

[Louis]

No one is posting stats on whether the deceased riders were using quality lights

That's the key. Anyone riding late at night with no lights must have a death wish or a very, very pressing need.

I've ridden a few times a bit too long after sunset because my ride just happened to go longer than expected, but I sure didn't like it.

[djg21]

Here you are Aaron:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811624.pdf.

So, we can agree that most auto-bicycle accidents occur during the early evening -- 4:00pm to 7:59pm.

The second most occur between 8:00pm and 12:00pm.

Obviously there are a lot of factors that contribute to these statistics, but we all should be able to acknowledge the risks which really are self-evident.

Then again, they are called Darwin awards for a reason.

And BTW, I didn't ever criticize the dead cyclist. To the contrary, I recognize that given the cost of gasoline, more and more people are using bikes as basic transportation. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. All I'm suggesting that if you will be riding at dusk or night, know the risk and do what you can to minimize it.

[rugbysecondrow]

as an aside, I have known a few people who have biked to the bars because a DUI has taken away their ability to drive an auto. Sure, some people might be training at 1am, but what is most likely?

Bad situation an timing all around.

[ultraman6970]

I think you took what I said wrong.... :) I find it weird thats why i asked. if for you is offensive... well.... what do you want me to tell you :)... the man had the right to do whatever and even ride butt naked if he wanted to but is not like super normal specially if he was using a MTB and during the fall that pretty much we are talking about really cold nights. One forumite said he used to ride at that time coming back from his job, ok... maybe the guy was doing the same but it is true too that here in the states normally at night people just drive because is safer (gary numan's cars comes to mind), the man was a father as well... no idea if you have kids, but when you have them you dont want anything to happen to you because other people depends from you, another situation you see? I dont see why the roughness dude :)

So why is so weird to ask why the guy might have been riding his bike at the wrong place at the wrong time? because that what it was, wrong time at the wrong night. Maybe the guy had his D/L suspended? he went to the 7/11? tie that with the idea of fatherhood and what americans do (drive cars at night or to work) and is really intriguing at least to me, i had to read the time like 4 times because i thought was a typo or something.

I see you are from philly, well you are in an area that for me is relatively small, to me a population of 1.5 million is really small. I grew up in a city of 8 million, not even dare to go out riding a bike at night because or a bus, truck, taxi or a drunk driver was going to get your butt from behind if he did not see you with lights or not. Even if you got lucky probably a thief was going to get you after studing your behavior for a couple of weeks. I would say that at night traffic gets cut to 25% that is still a lot specially because that 25% is way more than all the traffic you have during the day in any small to mid size american town. And lets face it (no offense just making a point), many guys here live in the middle of the bunnies where even the traffic lights are still in black and white or there are no more than 1 traffic light in town. Again... dont take me wrong ok? but in those tiny towns probably you can ride for centuries and nobody will pass you even during daylight, but not because you can do that where you live it can be done every where and thats what some of the guys are arguing too.

I have lived in europe too and no way i would ride my bike at night in madrid, barcelona or rome for example. Specially having kids.

Dunno if you are famliar with miami area, you can ride at nigh down there because is super hot but at 1am in Biscayne boulevard I wouldnt ride a bike because sure some drunk is going to get my ass and that street sooner than expected. Even probably a cop will stop you to know what are you doing so late in the street because will be weird even for him see somebody riding a bike that late.

Sad the guy died, sad this simple question turned in something that long hehe :) But all depends of the reality we are living or experiences lived.



... but mentioning or questioning he rider's behavior in an incident like this is offensive.

[kenw]

How you can be riding a bike at 1am?

I live in a university town where the bars close at 2AM. Not only do the students ride at night, they wear dark clothing, and many donʻt use lights. Iʻm surprised it doesnʻt happen more often.

[soulspinner]

"Riding on Friday night/Saturday early morning, at 1:00AM, is especially dangerous given that many drivers likely are on the way home from local drinking establishments."

Too true. There are fewer cars on the road late at night but the percentage of impaired drivers is much higher. The most dangerous time is between 11:00pm and an hour after last call.

This. When I was young I worked strange hours and did some training at night. I found after 10 or 11 erratic driving gets much more frequent.

[Aaron O]

Here you are Aaron:

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811624.pdf.

So, we can agree that most auto-bicycle accidents occur during the early evening -- 4:00pm to 7:59pm.

The second most occur between 8:00pm and 12:00pm.

Obviously there are a lot of factors that contribute to these statistics, but we all should be able to acknowledge the risks which really are self-evident.

Then again, they are called Darwin awards for a reason.

And BTW, I didn't ever criticize the dead cyclist. To the contrary, I recognize that given the cost of gasoline, more and more people are using bikes as basic transportation. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. All I'm suggesting that if you will be riding at dusk or night, know the risk and do what you can to minimize it.
Early evening can have light...in fact it's as likely to be light as dark where I live. Clearly you'd have more accidents because it's also a higher volume travel time.

That's fatalities, not accidents. I'm sure that a night hit is more likely to be worse because less traffic is more speed. I'd wager total accidents would skew that data. Additionally I know a lot of kids ride drunk at night in my area...which would skew stats.

Without lighting data, it's impossible to draw conclusions.

There is little question in my mind that on some roads I am safer at night. Ride as you wish, I'll ride as I chose. I never accused you of blaming the victim...our argument is sidebar.

[djg21]

Early evening can have light...in fact it's as likely to be light as dark where I live. Clearly you'd have more accidents because it's also a higher volume travel time.

That's fatalities, not accidents. I'm sure that a night hit is more likely to be worse because less traffic is more speed. I'd wager total accidents would skew that data. Additionally I know a lot of kids ride drunk at night in my area...which would skew stats.

Without lighting data, it's impossible to draw conclusions.

There is little question in my mind that on some roads I am safer at night. Ride as you wish, I'll ride as I chose. I never accused you of blaming the victim...our argument is sidebar.

No. It's not difficult to draw conclusions. You just have staked out an unsupportable position and don't want to admit the obvious.

Btw, I ordinarily don't get involved with these silly threads. But to call people ridiculous, or characterize their comments as offensive and bull****, merely because you disagree, is entirely uncalled for.

Sometimes it's in the delivery, and I'd hope you can express yourself without being inflammatory.

Maybe think about taking it down a notch next time.

[charliedid]

This is a human tragedy not a cycling tragedy.

[cfox]

What's offensive is comparing a rape to a bike accident in the "blame the victim" sense. The victim of a rape is the victim of a deliberate, brutal crime. Under no circumstances is a rape victim ever to blame. There are countless ways the unfortunate party in a bike accident to have contributed to their demise.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . would happen to agree with this.

. . . to call people ridiculous, or characterize their comments as offensive and bull****, merely because you disagree, is entirely uncalled for.

I'm not going to get into individual sins in this thread, so skip the "I didn't do it, HE did it first!" stuff . . . :no:

But EVERYBODY dial it down a notch here or I will lock it. Ridiculous that I have to even say this in a thread with this subject. The poor guy is DEAD, fer Pete's Sakes . . .

BBD

[Gummee]

I live in a university town where the bars close at 2AM. Not only do the students ride at night, they wear dark clothing, and many donʻt use lights. Iʻm surprised it doesnʻt happen more often.Add to that 'riding home from the bars so drunk I couldn't stand up straight' a few times and you'd have me when I was at school. I didn't want to leave my bike downtown where it was likely to 'wander off' so I rode home.

I've thought about riding around here (SW of DC out in the cowfields) 'cause typically there's no one out after say 2100. Haven't had to yet, but there's enough lighting to make me look like a car with a taillight out on the bike.

M

[mike p]

I have to say I see many parallels. Both the cyclist hit and person raped are victims. In hind site many victims could do things to prevent them from being a victim.
Cyclist....AWARENESS, better lites, ride a better less traveled route, ride with others, reflective clothing, and so on.
Rape victim....AWARENESS, stay out of bad part of town, don't travel alone at nite, dress down, carry gun or whistle, and so on.
I don't believe the cyclist or rape victim are under any obligation to prepare for being raped or run over. Also I realize rape is a particularly heinous crime and am not trying to trivialize it in any way. Just saying in the aftermath of any crime you can see things that may have helped prevent the crime.

Mike







What's offensive is comparing a rape to a bike accident in the "blame the victim" sense. The victim of a rape is the victim of a deliberate, brutal crime. Under no circumstances is a rape victim ever to blame. There are countless ways the unfortunate party in a bike accident to have contributed to their demise.

[biker72]

I do ride in the dark sometimes but I’m also lit up like a Christmas tree...:)

The problem with drunk drivers is that they are totally unpredictable. You can do everything right and still get hit. People that text while driving is almost as bad.

Just use common sense to reduce your likely hood of getting hit by a car.

[rugbysecondrow]

I do ride in the dark sometimes but I’m also lit up like a Christmas tree...:)

The problem with drunk drivers is that they are totally unpredictable. You can do everything right and still get hit. People that text while driving is almost as bad.

Just use common sense to reduce your likely hood of getting hit by a car.

I agree with this, but I would just like to throw out that this applies to whatever vehicle type one chooses.

[gemship]

I have gotten three comments in the past week by women driving cars. They all seem to be sober and nowhere's near hitting me but have a few things in common. The time is always between 6pm and 7pm and it's dark out and most importantly for a moment they were distracted or not paying attention to the road. In the next moment they see me and get freaked out, where did that biker come from. In every instance they have a comment and tell me I need to get a light. Well I do have one it's a nice planet bike blinking light that attaches to my belt, shorts, pants but it's only good to observe when a driver is coming from behind. I basically use it as a beacon that I'm here and I am always to the right of the shoulder on the road. Anyway I need a headlight but I used to have one and I still was almost hit more times than I can count. Riding on the public roads is just plain dangerous. People don't always see you no matter what you wear, lights or no lights.


Oh and here's some irony. So this person that was hit and killed was pretty much riding a cheap bike and presumably commuting from work by us forumites. Most of us spend more on are bikes than the cars that may hit us are even worth and yet we are still the same potential moving fatalities. Doesn't that suck?

[Gummee]

One thing that y'all need to keep in mind is LEDs are very directional. They're WAY bright when they're aimed at you, but if you come at em from an angle they aren't nearly as bright.

Clipping em on a belt, pack, etc and then leaning over doesn't do nearly as much good as y'all think.

Add to that: moving things attact attention. Wear a reflective band on your ankle. The up and down motion will attract notice more than a steady light.

As you're coming up on an intersction, weave slightly in your lane. The horizontal motion may save you from a SMIDSY*

M

*Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You aka 'left turner'

[gemship]

One thing that y'all need to keep in mind is LEDs are very directional. They're WAY bright when they're aimed at you, but if you come at em from an angle they aren't nearly as bright.

Clipping em on a belt, pack, etc and then leaning over doesn't do nearly as much good as y'all think.

Add to that: moving things attact attention. Wear a reflective band on your ankle. The up and down motion will attract notice more than a steady light.

As you're coming up on an intersction, weave slightly in your lane. The horizontal motion may save you from a SMIDSY*

M

*Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You aka 'left turner'

Those are all very good points well taken. I wish I could make some sort of mount for my clip on tail lamp but it really seems to be design for clipping on clothes and nothing else. I lost a few just because the mounting wasn't really that great.

[Aaron O]

No. It's not difficult to draw conclusions. You just have staked out an unsupportable position and don't want to admit the obvious.

Btw, I ordinarily don't get involved with these silly threads. But to call people ridiculous, or characterize their comments as offensive and bull****, merely because you disagree, is entirely uncalled for.

Sometimes it's in the delivery, and I'd hope you can express yourself without being inflammatory.

Maybe think about taking it down a notch next time.

I do not think any further discussion is likely to be productive between us. Suffice it to say that I think that you are being quite silly and we'll leave it at that. If you'd like to converse further, I'll gladly explain exactly what i think of your post and attitude in a PM. :)

[djg21]

I do not think any further discussion is likely to be productive between us. Suffice it to say that I think that you are being quite silly and we'll leave it at that. If you'd like to converse further, I'll gladly explain exactly what i think of your post and attitude in a PM. :)


Okee Dokee. http://www.n54tech.com/forums/images/smilies/happyanim.gif

[cfox]

I have to say I see many parallels. Both the cyclist hit and person raped are victims. In hind site many victims could do things to prevent them from being a victim.
Cyclist....AWARENESS, better lites, ride a better less traveled route, ride with others, reflective clothing, and so on.
Rape victim....AWARENESS, stay out of bad part of town, don't travel alone at nite, dress down, carry gun or whistle, and so on.
I don't believe the cyclist or rape victim are under any obligation to prepare for being raped or run over. Also I realize rape is a particularly heinous crime and am not trying to trivialize it in any way. Just saying in the aftermath of any crime you can see things that may have helped prevent the crime.

Mike
I understand you point, except rape is a deliberate crime, a bike accident is an accident. A rape victim can do all sorts of dumb things to get into a bad situation, but in the end, the rapist is the one at fault...always (no means no, etc.). A cyclist on the other hand can do dumb things and be 100% at fault for their own accident.

[gemship]

I understand you point, except rape is a deliberate crime, a bike accident is an accident. A rape victim can do all sorts of dumb things to get into a bad situation, but in the end, the rapist is the one at fault...always (no means no, etc.). A cyclist on the other hand can do dumb things and be 100% at fault for their own accident.

Not to mention that rape isn't a accident getting hit by a car is. I mean all the fugitive was trying to do was get away from the cops, the bicyclist just simply got in the way. As in colateral damage.

[goonster]

unless you've spent big bucks on lights, it is more difficult for drivers to see bikes at night
No.

The most effective measure for cyclist visibility at night is reflective materials attached to moving body/bike parts.

I say this as both a driver and a randonneur who has ridden through the occasional night.

[Johnnyg]

just throw away the key
No put him down!

[mike p]

In this case it looks like an accident, but of course we've all read or know of malicious actions that have left children fatherless!

Mike

Not to mention that rape isn't a accident getting hit by a car is. I mean all the fugitive was trying to do was get away from the cops, the bicyclist just simply got in the way. As in colateral damage.

[mike p]

Agree with just about all your points but this, and I quess I'm at fault for thinking in more general terms and not just the incident in question. In my area of upstate NY which I consider to be bike friendly we've had two cyclist killed by motorist on purpose. One missed the cyclist on the first pass did a u turn and mowed them down! Also I'm not sure all accidents are accidents. I had another friend who was hit and ended up in the hospital for 4 months, off the bike for a year and a half. A year after the accident it was found out this same motorist had previously hit two other cyclist.
Your 100% right rape is always wrong of course.

" a bike accident is an accident."

[djg21]

In this case it looks like an accident, but of course we've all read or know of malicious actions that have left children fatherless!

Mike

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but I don't consider this an "accident." Accidents are somewhat serendipitous, and do not give rise to criminal culpability.

Driving at speeds "nearing triple-digits" on city streets in an effort to evade police, while impaired, and then after hitting a cyclist, continuing on at those same speeds while the cyclist remains pinned to your vehicle, is something far in excess of accidental. It manifests a depraved indifference to human life -- i.e., Murder in the 2d Degree under the NY Penal Law.

According to the news stories, the driver has been charged with Manslaughter and Vehicular Manslaughter. If these reports are correct, I'd be curious to know why no murder charge too.

[Gummee]

According to the news stories, the driver has been charged with Manslaughter and Vehicular Manslaughter. If these reports are correct, I'd be curious to know why no murder charge too.

FWI remember Murder charges have an implied pre-meditation about them. ...but neither am an attorney nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last nite.

M

[djg21]

FWI remember Murder charges have an implied pre-meditation about them. ...but neither am an attorney nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last nite.

M

Mental state is is an express element of the crime, but for Murder 2nd it can either be (1) the intent to cause the death of another person, or (2) a depraved indifference to human life.

Specifically, NY Penal Law 125.25(2) provides that a person is guilty of murder in the second degree when, "[u]nder circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another person."

I don't see much difficulty in proving necessary elements here. We'll have to see what happens. It may be that the driver already is a predicate felon who violated his parole and is going to be going away for ever even if charged with a lesser offense. Who knows?

[wc1934]

makes me sick!

[djg21]

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Services-set-for-victim-of-crash-4065670.php

The victim was an employee of the NYS Department of Taxation.

The driver had a blood-alcohol content of 0.14 percent (nearly twice the legal limit).

According to the Times Union, the driver has been charged with second-degree manslaughter, vehicular manslaughter, driving under the influence and resisting arrest, and faces 22 years in prison if convicted on both manslaughter charges. He currently is being held without bail.

But I think the TU got it wrong an overlooked the driver's criminal history

According to the NYS Department of Corrections and Community Supervision parolee and inmate locators (http://161.11.133.89/ParoleeLookup/details.asp?nysid=07272800Q;http://nysdoccslookup.doccs.ny.gov/GCA00P00/WIQ2/WINQ120 (DIN 94A0897), the driver had been paroled from prison just weeks ago, on November 2, 2012, after serving 8 months of a 2 year sentence for criminal sale of a controlled substance 3d. He previously served 7 months of a 2-6 year sentence after being convicted of Burglary 3d in 1994.

Given this history, the driver could be prosecuted and sentenced as a persistent felony offender and spend his life in prison. I truly hope so.