What is a reasonable time to wait for a classified seller to ship an item?

[Buzz]

I have a friend (ok its me) who did a paypal transaction for a NOS Rossin frame on October 23. Still no frame. Sent a nice status request and finally received an apologetic response on November 7 saying he would ship my frame to me (after all I did pay for the shipping as part of the purchase price)

I guess I am being unreasonable in expecting that once I completed my end of the transaction the seller would complete his end of the transaction.

Maybe up in Oregon they don't have UPS or Fed Ex or post offices...

My wife says I have been scammed.

[Louis]

OK, you've made your point.

The seller is currently online, please kiss and make up.

[dave thompson]

Well, you'd get his attention by filing a dispute with eBay and PayPal. That would make him **** or get off the pot.

Or you could tell him that you will do above unless there's a verifiable tracking number sent to you within two days and that you will leave him his very first very negative feedback.

[christian]

2 days. A couple days more if there's clear communication, e.g. "It's Thursday, but I'm going to get a Madone box from the local Trek dealer on Saturday and then I'll pack it and ship it on Monday, because the Madone boxes are the best. Are you ok with that?"

[DRietz]

My opinion on this can be communicated in a couple different ways.

First, I think everyone sometimes gets confronted with this stupid thing we all do called life. I know I sometimes get a huge slap of life right in my face, especially during finals or midterms weeks. Usually, during these weeks, I'm a late shipper. By late, I mean more than three business days. And when this happens, I am very communicative with my buyers.

The key to a healthy buyer/seller interaction on this forum, and any forum with such a good and honest user base is communication. As long as you communicate, the human you're typing to will likely be able to understand the innately human situation you're undergoing and will not worry.

In general, if I am a "late shipper," I will voluntarily give up my delivery confirmation number.

Which brings me to another point.

Every item I ship, no matter how big or small, always goes out with a delivery confirmation number. But, this number is for my use as a seller to determine whether or not your item was delivered. My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller. It's like, dude, your item shipped. Wait for it for a week or whatever and then nag on me.

/endrant.

Be patient. Your situation regarding this frameset is a bit of a bummer as there were two solid weeks without communication from the buyer, which is on him. If I let a shipping situation get that far long, I refund shipping costs and offer a substantial apology. But, if he does end up providing you with a tracking number, you get the frame, and you're happy, call it water under the bridge and chalk it up to someone getting slapped with a little "life."

[Louis]

Well, you'd get his attention by filing a dispute with eBay and PayPal. That would make him **** or get off the pot.

Or you could tell him that you will do above unless there's a verifiable tracking number sent to you within two days and that you will leave him his very first very negative feedback.

The deal was done on this forum, not eBay.

[christian]

My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller. It's like, dude, your item shipped.What? Sending the tracking number is common courtesy. And, btw, those weeks when life interferes, just don't sell bike parts on the internet. Not that hard.

[dave thompson]

The deal was done on this forum, not eBay.

Somehow I missed that. If PayPal was used, the threat of opening a dispute carries some weight.

Or if a forum member knows the seller, maybe an inquiry could be made on the buyers behalf.

[slidey]

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

But, this number is for my use as a seller to determine whether or not your item was delivered. My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller. It's like, dude, your item shipped.

[DRietz]

What? Sending the tracking number is common courtesy. And, btw, those weeks when life interferes, just don't sell bike parts on the internet. Not that hard.

Yeah, but it's a common courtesy that I reserve and that should be respected, no?

Some people function differently. You've never sold an item and then had something come up that prevented you from going to the PO? Lucky you, but not everyone is you.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Actually, it does.

This doesn't:

http://www.torontorealtyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/nosense1.JPG

[dave thompson]

...<snipped>.............Which brings me to another point.

Every item I ship, no matter how big or small, always goes out with a delivery confirmation number. But, this number is for my use as a seller to determine whether or not your item was delivered. My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller. It's like, dude, your item shipped. Wait for it for a week or whatever and then nag on me.

/endrant......<snipped>
I always ask for a tracking/delivery confirmation number, not because I distrust the seller but I use it as a scheduling tool so someone can be home to receive the package. It's entirely a convenience for me.

[4Rings6Stars]

Yeah, but it's a common courtesy that I reserve and that should be respected, no?

Some people function differently. You've never sold an item and then had something come up that prevented you from going to the PO? Lucky you, but not everyone is you.



Actually, it does.

This doesn't:

[img]http://www.torontorealtyblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/nosense1.JPG[/img

No, they were right. It makes NO sense. People distrust you because they want a tracking number? What possible reason would you have for not providing this number?

[DRietz]

I always ask for a tracking/delivery confirmation number, not because I distrust the seller but I use it as a scheduling tool so someone can be home to receive the package. It's entirely a convenience for me.

Well, Dave, we can both agree on that one. And if a buyer were to contact me in a well-written fashion such as yourself, I would be fine with giving you the number.

But I can't stand the messages I get all the time, not necessarily from this forum but elsewhere. "h4y man, its ben 3 dayz sense i wun ur auction. WEREZ MAH SHTUFFF?!" Yes, I received that message, verbatim, from a buyer of one of my items. Similar, albeit less completely idiotic, messages fill my inboxes.

What possible reason would you have for not providing this number?

Because I don't want to and am under no obligation to do so? Because I believe people are capable of waiting a week for their item to show up? Maybe I'm just too much of an existentialist hipster. Or a prick. Whateva.

Man, you guys are no fun. This place used to be open for so much more civil discussion.

Anyway, OP, hope your frame shows.

Until then, enjoy this fantastic photo of a kitty:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ifP3Hk8fzZY/SQsgpF2FG-I/AAAAAAAABgM/P-G4BS4rkJc/s320/cat-on-bicycle.jpg
Why are his STIs pointing down instead of up?! That's not how I do it! It, thus, makes NO sense!

[Don49]

Every item I ship, no matter how big or small, always goes out with a delivery confirmation number. But, this number is for my use as a seller to determine whether or not your item was delivered. My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller. That's certainly a unique view on confirmation numbers.

As a buyer I want the number so I know when to expect delivery of my item and can plan accordingly, like being available to sign for it.
As a seller it seems just common courtesy and good communication to provide confirmation to a buyer who's money I'm now holding.

[pdmtong]

I always ask for a tracking/delivery confirmation number, not because I distrust the seller but I use it as a scheduling tool so someone can be home to receive the package. It's entirely a convenience for me.

exactly..having a tracking numebr is helpful for planning. any trust/distrust of the seller should be sussed out during the transaction and before the send money button is clicked.

generally speaking, the level and frequency of communication should increase as the price of the item in quesiton increases...i.e. f/f more interaction than a seatpost binder bolt

[Buzz]

OK, you've made your point.

The seller is currently online, please kiss and make up.

What did I do wrong? Honestly, what have I failed to do? I guess I have been patient enough? I paid him promptly. When I didn't receive the frame sent him a nice PM on Nov. 1 simply requesting status. He didn't respond. Sent him another PM on Nov 7 requesting status. That's all. Said he and his kid were sick. Told him I understood, been there myself...he promised to ship the frame...

Sent him another PM. No response from him.

Sent him my email and address. He could have contacted me if there was something going on. I'm reasonable to a point but we are pushing almost a month now.

What's the big deal? If you don't have the time to pack an item. Go to the local fed ex, hand them the frame, tell them to wrap it up and ship it. Takes all of 10 minutes to do this. If you have time to do 15 postings on the forum since then you have time to ship an item. No?

It's ridiculous that I have to even do this to make a point to get some action.

[krhea]

I'm local and if I can lend a hand I'd be happy to. I'd gladly get it packed and shipped for you.

LMK

KRhea

[Louis]

It's ridiculous that I have to even do this to make a point to get some action.

Agreed, but this sort of thread almost always ends up with bad feelings all around. (Not that you weren't justified.) It's just painful and unfortunate that we sometimes have to see this sort of dirty laundry aired in public.

[4Rings6Stars]

Well, Dave, we can both agree on that one. And if a buyer were to contact me in a well-written fashion such as yourself, I would be fine with giving you the number.

But I can't stand the messages I get all the time, not necessarily from this forum but elsewhere. "h4y man, its ben 3 dayz sense i wun ur auction. WEREZ MAH SHTUFFF?!" Yes, I received that message, verbatim, from a buyer of one of my items. Similar, albeit less completely idiotic, messages fill my inboxes.



Because I don't want to and am under no obligation to do so? Because I believe people are capable of waiting a week for their item to show up? Maybe I'm just too much of an existentialist hipster. Or a prick. Whateva.

Man, you guys are no fun. This place used to be open for so much more civil discussion.

Anyway, OP, hope your frame shows.

Until then, enjoy this fantastic photo of a kitty:

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ifP3Hk8fzZY/SQsgpF2FG-I/AAAAAAAABgM/P-G4BS4rkJc/s320/cat-on-bicycle.jpg[/img

I'm not talking about ebay, I'm referring to civil transactions on this forum. However, even on ebay I would expect a tracking number...in fact even more so.

Why should somebody have to wait a week, not knowing if or when their part will show up? They are PAYING YOU. You are not doing them a favor sending them something for free.

My viewpoint might be a little tainted here because I recently had some parts go missing in the mail (USPS).

[Buzz]

KRhea

That is very generous of you. I genuinely appreciate your offer of assistance.

But wouldn't it just be easier if the seller took care of this as he promised?

Isn't that his obligation? It's not that complicated. Drive to UPS or FED EX. Have them wrap it and ship. The whole thing takes 10 minutes if that. No biggie.


I'm local and if I can lend a hand I'd be happy to. I'd gladly get it packed and shipped for you.

LMK

KRhea

[DRietz]

I'm not talking about ebay, I'm referring to civil transactions on this forum.

We're on different pages then.

Kiss and make up?

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa298/Amotue/sorry-cute-little-kitty.jpg

OK, OK, I'll stop with the cat pictures.

[4Rings6Stars]

We're on different pages then.

Kiss and make up?

[img]http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa298/Amotue/sorry-cute-little-kitty.jpg[/img

OK, OK, I'll stop with the cat pictures.

We're good. I'm overtired and have spent my Friday night studying so I'm not in the best of spirits to begin with. It just seemed like you were suggesting the seller was doing the buyer a favor by even selling to them in the first place. I see it quite the opposite. Sort of a "the customer is always right" perspective. That's the corporate drone that lives inside me sticking his head out I guess.

[JeffS]

My opinion on this can be communicated in a couple different ways.

First, I think everyone sometimes gets confronted with this stupid thing we all do called life. I know I sometimes get a huge slap of life right in my face, especially during finals or midterms weeks. Usually, during these weeks, I'm a late shipper. By late, I mean more than three business days. And when this happens, I am very communicative with my buyers.

The key to a healthy buyer/seller interaction on this forum, and any forum with such a good and honest user base is communication. As long as you communicate, the human you're typing to will likely be able to understand the innately human situation you're undergoing and will not worry.

In general, if I am a "late shipper," I will voluntarily give up my delivery confirmation number.

Which brings me to another point.

Every item I ship, no matter how big or small, always goes out with a delivery confirmation number. But, this number is for my use as a seller to determine whether or not your item was delivered. My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller. It's like, dude, your item shipped. Wait for it for a week or whatever and then nag on me.

/endrant.

Be patient. Your situation regarding this frameset is a bit of a bummer as there were two solid weeks without communication from the buyer, which is on him. If I let a shipping situation get that far long, I refund shipping costs and offer a substantial apology. But, if he does end up providing you with a tracking number, you get the frame, and you're happy, call it water under the bridge and chalk it up to someone getting slapped with a little "life."


I think you would be surprised at how many people would quickly click away if you were to attach this point of view to your next classified ad.

[AngryScientist]

i think the OP is justified in his frustration. IMO, anything more than a couple of business days is not acceptable, unless the delay was clearly communicated, and mutually agreed upon.

as with anything else, open, clear communication between parties is the key to good transactions.

if you dont get this resolved in the next few days, PM me, and i'll see if i can help from a moderator standpoint.

[William]

I'll be honest, there are times when I've dropped the ball on getting stuff out. I'm usually pretty good about it but with two kids, a business, pets, students, wife, and a home things come up. Not trying to make excuses, it just is what it is. When I realize it or I'm reminded of it I apologize and try to make it right.

On tracking and Delivery confirmation number:
After having something get lost in the mail, and getting the feeling the recipient thought I was trying to rip them off, I use delivery confirmation on everything. Even when I give stuff away on the forum. In one instance tracking showed the part was delivered but the recipient said they never got it. When I gave them the tracking number they went to the PO with the number and got the package. Turns out it was delivered to the wrong address and sent back to the PO and was just sitting in back with a bunch of other packages.

Another recent transaction the shoe was on the other foot. The seller sent the package but didn't use tracking. After a reasonable amount of time I contacted him asking about it. He says he sent it, I'm saying I never received it. I waited another week or so and the package never arrived. He ended up refunding my money but I got the sense that he wasn't happy about it.

As far as the number? I always try to give out the confirmation number. For me it shows the item or $$ has been sent, for the receiver it allows them to plan on being around to get it if needed. That's just how I roll with it.







William

[jr59]

This is a slippery slope here.

I'm with William in so far as sometimes things don't get shipped out as quickly as some would like. I try, but at times life gets in the way.

I too have waited a LONG time for things to be sent after buying on this very forum. No return email, no nothing, just wait and wait. Looked into legal action, but the stuff finally showed up and was perfect. Just took a long time to get it shipped. Most times, this is not the case at all. This forum is a pretty good group of guys that are easy to deal with.

As far as tracking #'s go. Yea I use them, I just think they are polite and for me I need to make sure that someone signs for my incoming stuff.

I don't ask for the # because I think someone is not telling the truth. It's just easier on my end when I have one.

Good luck

[J.Greene]

With two reasonable people things rarely get out of hand with communication. It's something most of us could get better at. Like William, with three kids, a business or two and a life I've been slow a few times. Being honest and up to date will preempt any problems. I think a couple of days or three is reasonable for something like a frame.

One thing I now do to minimize the time gremlins is before I go on a selling spree or eBay tear I take pictures and box everything I'm selling. At that point when and if the item sells you can drop it off at the PO or schedule a pick up.

[Ti Designs]

It takes me a lifetime to get stuff packed up and shipped. I'm not talking about the lifetime of a fruit fly, more like one of those sea turtles that live 150 years. There are just so many steps - find the item, package the item, get the box to UPS... It only happens if I really want it to, and I must say that selling things on ebay doesn't inspire me one bit. I tried giving stuff away as long as I didn't have to ship it - somehow that didn't work either.

[echelon_john]

I have had transactions with the seller in this case and they have been positive. Hope your situation works out.

[phcollard]

I would be quite worried too if a frame that I purchased wasn't shipped after two weeks. Unless the seller explicitely told me before the sale that he was pretty busy and wouldn't ship immediately. It's true that packing a frame can take some time, I spend at least 2 hours, but hey it's been two weeks! Even with the busiest life I can't picture myself having someboby else's money in hand and not finding 2 hours to ship what now belongs to somebody else. I just wouldn't feel good.

I would try to communicate again, maybe with the help of a mod at this point. I'm sorry that this happened to you and on the forums. This is 99.9% of the time a great place to buy and sell. I've purchased/sold my load of stuff and I've never had a problem, and people here are usually great communicators and very friendly. I love you all.

A side note about the tracking as others said I like to have it just to make sure I'm home when the package shows up. D please don't feel insulted if I ever ask you for one :)

[William]

It takes me a lifetime to get stuff packed up and shipped. I'm not talking about the lifetime of a fruit fly, more like one of those sea turtles that live 150 years. There are just so many steps - find the item, package the item, get the box to UPS... It only happens if I really want it to, and I must say that selling things on ebay doesn't inspire me one bit. I tried giving stuff away as long as I didn't have to ship it - somehow that didn't work either.

Ed, I've got the Cruiser gassed up and ready to go if you still need to empty your basement of bike parts.;)




William

[fuzzalow]

I am slightly bemused and disappointed at the attitude and unprofessionalism of sellers that reserve tracking info and prompt shipping to themselves. Why would anyone be as untidy as this in leaving unsettled business just laying about? I don't accept as correct lame excuses for not following through when money has changed hands.

Why so serious? Easy answer. Money changes everything.

Sure, stuff happens and when it does a seller is obligated to inform the buyer of the revised schedule and make good on what was said. In the real world, following through on commitments is not a novel idea.

Treat others as you'd wish them to treat you.

[Ti Designs]

Why so serious? Easy answer. Money changes everything.

Not for everybody...

Ed, I've got the Cruiser gassed up and ready to go if you still need to empty your basement of bike parts.

At one point I had a box full of parts put aside just for you. I had a bunch of those USCF stickers you wanted, some 36 hole old Mavic tubular rims, Salsa steel stems in long, extra long and who the hell needs that size?

I wound up throwing out a lot of stuff. Turns out bike parts dont' compost well.

[William]

At one point I had a box full of parts put aside just for you. I had a bunch of those USCF stickers you wanted, some 36 hole old Mavic tubular rims, Salsa steel stems in long, extra long and who the hell needs that size?

I wound up throwing out a lot of stuff. Turns out bike parts dont' compost well.

I don't remember what happened back then but I was going to be passing near by tomorrow. My loss.:crap:





William

[Fixed]

KRhea

That is very generous of you. I genuinely appreciate your offer of assistance.

But wouldn't it just be easier if the seller took care of this as he promised?

Isn't that his obligation? It's not that complicated. Drive to UPS or FED EX. Have them wrap it and ship. The whole thing takes 10 minutes if that. No biggie.

Wife and kids being sick could mean a lot ,it might be a good idea to take the offer of help the seller could be going thorough some really bad times , we don't know what may have happened ,
Hope for the best ,
Imho
Cheers

[DRZRM]

I'm not sure why DRietz is getting such a hard time, if you expect tracking so you can schedule being home for delivery shouldn't you negotiate that up front. Tracking on most USPS is a joke anyway, for big ticket items I expect it, but I'll also use FedEx or UPS with insurance. If I throw a stem or bottle cage into the mail, I generally don't worry about it. That said, if it gets lost, I know I'll have to cover the cost, it's never happened.

As to the OP, I think things should go into the mail by week's end, usually it's the next day, but I've been known to leave a packed box sitting by the front door for a morning or two. I've certainly had difficulty sourcing a frame box in a timely fashion, but in that case the buyer should certainly be kept in the loop, and still in that case it was only a few days. Once you are pushing a month something serious has gone wrong, I think this thread was a justifiable nudge to get things moving. The seller owes an explanation, and I'd at least refunds shipping cost at this point as well, but I guess that's between seller and buyer.

I agree with Fixed too, something is going on, maybe some help is in order.

[mike p]

What Jonathan said! Before I put up an add I usually have it boxed up and ready to ship. Also the communication! Takes less than a min to send out a email or pm.
I can see no reason at all including death in the family that would require a months delay!

Mike

With two reasonable people things rarely get out of hand with communication. It's something most of us could get better at. Like William, with three kids, a business or two and a life I've been slow a few times. Being honest and up to date will preempt any problems. I think a couple of days or three is reasonable for something like a frame.

One thing I now do to minimize the time gremlins is before I go on a selling spree or eBay tear I take pictures and box everything I'm selling. At that point when and if the item sells you can drop it off at the PO or schedule a pick up.

[bpm]

I've sold many things on eBay, Craigslist, and other forums. I always promise to ship within certain time frame and do everything to hit that mark. I too have had life get in the way of that, and realized I wasn't going to ship in the time promised. In each of those circumstances I communicated with the buyer and explained the situation. If they didn't want to wait, I offered to refund the money. That is what the seller should have done in this case. Unless the person is entirely incapacitated, although it sounds like they aren't, one month is way too long for a transaction to be completed. I would give the seller two days to ship (with tracking number), or issue a refund. Otherwise, file a complaint with PayPal.

This may sound very cold and businesslike, but if I give someone money for an item, I expect that item.

[wc1934]

What Jonathan said! Before I put up an add I usually have it boxed up and ready to ship. Also the communication! Takes less than a min to send out a email or pm.
I can see no reason at all including death in the family that would require a months delay!

Mike

+1
It is a business transaction - Buyer paid promptly and expects prompt delivery of the goods. If you purchased something online (say from REI, Macy's, Velo Mine, Sears, etc. etc.) would you patiently wait a month for delivery.
It is frustrating - then you start to think that maybe you've been ripped off.

[rwsaunders]

Communicate and take a photo of the package at the PO, FedEx or UPS location and email the photo to the buyer when it hits the road. That's been working for me.

[Pars]

I always send the buyer the tracking info immediately without being asked for it. It is their right to have it (they are paying for the shipping and the item after all). I don't see what the big deal is?

[nighthawk]

Wife and kids being sick could mean a lot ,it might be a good idea to take the offer of help the seller could be going thorough some really bad times , we don't know what may have happened ,
Hope for the best ,
Imho
Cheers

I think Fixed is right-on with this statement. It doesn't take a detective to figure out that this is the frame in question:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=118056&highlight=NOS+Rossin

And if so, the seller has only had good feedback in the feedback thread... so I would just assume he's having a particularly tough time right now. It happens to all of us. I agree that it's getting to the point where action is needed on one side or the other... and the lack of communication on his end is likely frustrating.

If you'd prefer to be done with it and just get your money back you could ask for a refund or if you are willing, file a claim with Paypal?

If you really want the frame... more patience with the seller is in order, or take up the generous offer from KRhea to help with the shipping.

I think most people on the forum here are generally pretty good about communicating about transactions... and pretty timely with shipping.

Hope it works out for the best.

[bluesea]

Not to irritate DRietz's irritability, but I always *try* to send the delivery confirmation info--there's a check-box option to do so in the USPS Click-N-Ship process. I don't necessarily see it as an obligation of the seller to send that info, but at the same time it's a common courtesy. ymmv

[DRietz]

Not to irritate DRietz's irritability, but I always *try* to send the delivery confirmation info--there's a check-box option to do so in the USPS Click-N-Ship process. I don't necessarily see it as an obligation of the seller to send that info, but at the same time it's a common courtesy. ymmv

I'm not irritated. Notice my blatant use of ridiculous cat images.

Talk to phcollard. Talk to DRZRM. If you speak to any of the people on this forum that I've dealt with, they can tell you that I'm an honest seller. I respect most people on this forum, and have no problem giving them a tracking number up front.

However, I do have a problem with other markets. And those are mostly what my post was about.

I do enjoy the attention that this devolved thread has given me, oh yes, but I'm sad to say that I will not be returning. Cheers to the OP, bullocks to his seller, and a Happy Thanksgiving to all!

By the way, I'd like to note that my post was made on a Friday night...ahem. Carry on.

[phcollard]

Talk to phcollard. Talk to DRZRM. If you speak to any of the people on this forum that I've dealt with, they can tell you that I'm an honest seller.

You are indeed! A true asset to the forums. My case is maybe a bit special because I know when I buy something from the USA it might take 2+ weeks to arrive so I don't stress.

By the way, I'd like to note that my post was made on a Friday night...ahem. Carry on.

Better than browsing eBay on Friday nights! :banana:

[Buzz]

Looks like this issue is resolved.

As others have noted communication is key. But I might add so is sticking to your promises. I am going to give you a little timeline to put this to bed so that other sellers and buyers might learn something.

October 21. Agreed to buy frame.
October 23 Deposited Paypay funds

October 25 seller acknowledges receipt of payment. Says he is going to look around for some pantographed stems that he will offer to sell but otherwise "plan to ship the frame this weekend" (October 26,27)

November 1 PM seller with following "Status? Thanks. Buzz"

No response from seller

November 7 "Status? Second request. Thanks. Buzz"

November 7: Have been looking for stems...we are all just got sick but better...sorry for the inexcusable delay. To make up for the delay I will throw in the stem for free and will ship everything to you this weekend (November 9 /10)

November 7: Hope you and your family have been feeling better...Been there with sick kids, etc....thanks. Buzz

November 16: come home. No frame. No emails No pms since Nov 7.

I send PM explaining how this works: I pay, He ships. He sends back PM saying that he doesn't need to be told this (I think he does as I still don't have my frame) and throws in stuff about how he is a 30 year ordained buddhist monk and sick kid (What does that have to do with anything at this point?) says he is sending the frame but apparently not the stem now which he previously promised to make up for the delay.

So. Buyer paid on October 23. Seller advised he was shipping on various dates and didn't, didn't respond to email. Didn't send any emails advising of delay, promises to throw in stem to make up for delay and then is apparently reneging on that offer..we'll see.

Listen: We all understand some delay. I know I am not dealing with an online store. We are not professional sellers. So, if there is a problem email. Email is free. Takes less than 30 seconds to type and send an email. Don't keep promising to ship something creating legitimate expectations and then not do it. That's the problem. And once you are called on it don't get all defiant and pull the buddhist monk card. Apologize and make it right immediately as others here have suggested.

Let's close this and move on. Thanks.

[merlincustom1]

How is it resolved? You don't have the frame yet, just another promise. Seller is a douche.

[slidey]

You would do well to put this in the feedback thread just to add to the collective memory of the forum. A future transaction might benefit from such inputs.

Hope you get your frame, good luck!

Looks like this issue is resolved.

As others have noted communication is key. But I might add so is sticking to your promises. I am going to give you a little timeline to put this to bed so that other sellers and buyers might learn something.

October 21. Agreed to buy frame.
October 23 Deposited Paypay funds

October 25 seller acknowledges receipt of payment. Says he is going to look around for some pantographed stems that he will offer to sell but otherwise "plan to ship the frame this weekend" (October 26,27)

November 1 PM seller with following "Status? Thanks. Buzz"

No response from seller

November 7 "Status? Second request. Thanks. Buzz"

November 7: Have been looking for stems...we are all just got sick but better...sorry for the inexcusable delay. To make up for the delay I will throw in the stem for free and will ship everything to you this weekend (November 9 /10)

November 7: Hope you and your family have been feeling better...Been there with sick kids, etc....thanks. Buzz

November 16: come home. No frame. No emails No pms since Nov 7.

I send PM explaining how this works: I pay, He ships. He sends back PM saying that he doesn't need to be told this (I think he does as I still don't have my frame) and throws in stuff about how he is a 30 year ordained buddhist monk and sick kid (What does that have to do with anything at this point?) says he is sending the frame but apparently not the stem now which he previously promised to make up for the delay.

So. Buyer paid on October 23. Seller advised he was shipping on various dates and didn't, didn't respond to email. Didn't send any emails advising of delay, promises to throw in stem to make up for delay and then is apparently reneging on that offer..we'll see.

Listen: We all understand some delay. I know I am not dealing with an online store. We are not professional sellers. So, if there is a problem email. Email is free. Takes less than 30 seconds to type and send an email. Don't keep promising to ship something creating legitimate expectations and then not do it. That's the problem. And once you are called on it don't get all defiant and pull the buddhist monk card. Apologize and make it right immediately as others here have suggested.

Let's close this and move on. Thanks.

[AngryScientist]

You would do well to put this in the feedback thread just to add to the collective memory of the forum. A future transaction might benefit from such inputs.

Hope you get your frame, good luck!

yes, please do that, for the good of the forum.

[Louis]

The problem with the feedback thread is that unless you're willing to read the whole thing page by page, it's nearly impossible to track down someone individually. (As far as I know one can't limit a search to a single thread.)

[Don49]

The problem with the feedback thread is that unless you're willing to read the whole thing page by page, it's nearly impossible to track down someone individually. (As far as I know one can't limit a search to a single thread.)

Open the feedback thread first, then use the "Search this Thread" button to search for a username. Works for me.

[4Rings6Stars]

Check the toolbar at the top of the forum where the page numbers are. "Search this thread"

[lhuerta]

And once you are called on it don't get all defiant and pull the buddhist monk card.

This line is just GOLDEN...glad this is close to getting resolved for you. Please do post in feedback forum. Lou

[DHallerman]

In general, if I am a "late shipper," I will voluntarily give up my delivery confirmation number.

Which brings me to another point.

Every item I ship, no matter how big or small, always goes out with a delivery confirmation number. But, this number is for my use as a seller to determine whether or not your item was delivered. My biggest pet peeve is when people want this number, as it shows so much distrust toward me as an honest seller.

NOT at all. There's another perspective on tracking numbers, and it goes like this:

As a seller, I always send the tracking number to the buyer as soon as it goes out.

And that's because, as a buyer, I want the tracking number to see when it might arrive. Sometimes that's helpful because I need to be around for the delivery. Sometimes that's helpful because I'm making plans for the item, and want to know if I can follow through in my time-scheme.

In fact, there's a simple widget I have on my computer, where I enter tracking numbers -- because I also buy other things online -- and it lets me know when the item is supposed to arrive.

You know, I think Amazon is an honest seller. And I think anyone I've bought from on this message board is an honest seller.

So why, other than the seller's fear of being misperceived as not honest, would a seller NOT send me the tracking number?

Dave, who feels a little ranty here because the sharing of tracking numbers is just part of online commerce and that commerce includes personal sales too

[DHallerman]

What? Sending the tracking number is common courtesy. And, btw, those weeks when life interferes, just don't sell bike parts on the internet. Not that hard.

+ 23.

Thank you, Christian. I already de-ranted, but you say it more simply.

[DHallerman]

Maybe I'm just too much of an existentialist hipster. Or a prick. Whateva.

Nevermind.

[Louis]

Don49 & 4Rings - thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed that feature.

In my case I usually do what I think most do - check how long the seller has been around and how active they've been on the forum. I bet that 99% of the time that's an accurate filter to weed out the scam artists.

[Tin Turtle]

But I can't stand the messages I get all the time, not necessarily from this forum but elsewhere. "h4y man, its ben 3 dayz sense i wun ur auction. WEREZ MAH SHTUFFF?!" Yes, I received that message, verbatim, from a buyer of one of my items. Similar, albeit less completely idiotic, messages fill my inboxes.


Providing the tracking number like any ligit seller would cut down on those inquiries.

[Buzz]

Seller PM'd me last night to say he was shipping it out today AM.

Others here say he is normally a reliable seller so I have to trust that this was just a one off situation and he'll take care of this.

I hope he ships it. I have spent a small fortune buying up pantographed Campy Rossin parts in anticipation of building up the frame!


How is it resolved? You don't have the frame yet, just another promise. Seller is a douche.

[aoe]

How dare people ask me for a tracking number? Honestly, just because you sent me $11,500 for a complete Vanilla Randonneur/Monstercross/Crit Racer there's no way I'm going to put in all that effort to send you that insanely long number. It's not even just numbers, it's this crazy mish-mash of numbers AND letters. I could cut and paste it you say?...Oh now you're bossing me around? If people ask me when the package shipped my standard response is: "that's for me to know and you to find out".

Buzz, if I was to receive your PM requesting the dang status the first time, I'd inevitably reply with a link to my Facebook status - which would likely either be "Single" or "Drunk". And when I receive your second status request, my response: "I am actually a Nigerian Prince, however if you Western Union me another $250 it will enable me to unlock the millions I have tied up in Swiss Banks and as a reward I promise the first thing I do will be to unpack the Rossin and instead send you a Confente complete with C-Record and signed by the entire Masi family". You have some nerve, Buzz...or shall I call you Buzzkill? Sheesh.

[Peter B]

Things sometimes happen. Unfortunately, this time it sounds like clear communication didn't. Regardless, hope it ends with everyone whole.

Has enough been said?

Time for the lock??

[btl68]

I have a friend (ok its me) who did a paypal transaction for a NOS Rossin frame on October 23. Still no frame. Sent a nice status request and finally received an apologetic response on November 7 saying he would ship my frame to me (after all I did pay for the shipping as part of the purchase price)

I guess I am being unreasonable in expecting that once I completed my end of the transaction the seller would complete his end of the transaction.

Maybe up in Oregon they don't have UPS or Fed Ex or post offices...

My wife says I have been scammed.

3 days, tops.

I ship within 2 days on complete bikes (I just shipped a recumbent Tuesday). One day on a freakin' frame is enough for me.

JMHO.

[yakstone]

Sending the tracking number as soon as you ship is just common courtesy for all of the reasons mentioned in earlier posts.
ATMO - it is part of the process.

[cfox]

people get all principled over weird *****, but a tracking number?? first of all, if the buyer pays for shipping, that number is their "property." and second of all, don't be a douche and just send a stupid tracking number. jeezus.