Ben's Blog

[Bill Stephens]

Check out Ben Serotta's latest blog post (http://serotta.com/the-evolution-of-our-product-line/) on the evolution of the Serotta product line. The post expands on the comments our CEO, Bill Watkins, has made here on Paceline in the past couple of weeks.

Meanwhile, thanks to the eagle-eyed Paceline members who posted links to the Serotta Garage, Viaggio and a shop photo of the new Fondo SG almost as quickly as we put them on Serotta.com yesterday. We value your enthusiasm!

Bill Stephens
Communications Manager
Serotta
bill.stephens@serotta.com

[Elefantino]

Bill:

What does this

"If you were hoping to spend $25,000 on your next bike, stay tuned."

mean? It's not April.

[Bill Stephens]

No, it's not April. But that's Ben's tongue-in-cheek way of saying that new high-end bikes are in the works, too. We don't want to give the impression that the introduction of two standard geometry models priced around $4,300 means we are somehow moving away from the fully custom, high-end market. Nothing could be further from the truth. We want to offer bikes in more than one price range and in both standard geometry (our Serotta Geometry lineup) and fully custom (Serotta Experience, or SE, models).

Cheers,
Bill

[jpw]

[QUOTE= new high-end bikes are in the works, too.
Bill[/QUOTE]

Have you a release date in mind?

[Elefantino]

Have you a release date in mind?

If he says April 1 ... ;)

[Bill Stephens]

JPW, yes we have a release date in mind. And, no, we're not ready to share it!

Elefantino, thanks for the laugh!

Cheers,
Bill

[nighthawk]

Even though I'm not interested in purchasing a $25K bike... I'm really excited to see what Serotta is cooking up for a high high end bike. Are we going to be seeing any new design innovations?

[pdmtong]

Even though I'm not interested in purchasing a $25K bike... I'm really excited to see what Serotta is cooking up for a high high end bike. Are we going to be seeing any new design innovations?

if we are talking $10k+ for f/f - i want to see that

[jpw]

JPW, yes we have a release date in mind. And, no, we're not ready to share it!

Elefantino, thanks for the laugh!

Cheers,
Bill

I'm salivating already.

The anticipation is palpable.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm salivating already.

The anticipation is palpable.

Really?

lessee...say a $10,000 frame and fork. Campagnolo SR EPS or shimano 11s Di2, the most expensive carbon wheels in existence...that's only about $23000...and ya still gotta pedal it.

as opposed to a well made, custom steel frame, carbon fork. Mechanical shifting, handbuilt wheels.....probably 1/4 the price, probably w/i 2 pounds or so of the wunderbik...tack the extra $18,000 and buy a new car or a really nice motorcycle or a share of a Citabria(that's an airplane).....

I donno, I was yaking yesterday about why a bicycle is pushing $10,000 for something pretty average and this is less $.

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Ducati-Monster-696-106267596

[jpw]

Really?

lessee...say a $10,000 frame and fork. Campagnolo SR EPS or shimano 11s Di2, the most expensive carbon wheels in existence...that's only about $23000...and ya still gotta pedal it.

as opposed to a well made, custom steel frame, carbon fork. Mechanical shifting, handbuilt wheels.....probably 1/4 the price, probably w/i 2 pounds or so of the wunderbik...tack the extra $18,000 and buy a new car or a really nice motorcycle or a share of a Citabria(that's an airplane).....

I donno, I was yaking yesterday about why a bicycle is pushing $10,000 for something pretty average and this is less $.

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Ducati-Monster-696-106267596

I'm not salivating about price.

I'm interested in the vision Ben and his team have for future product development. Ben is a great product guy. That's what he does best.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm not salivating about price.

I'm interested in the vision Ben and his team have for future product development. Ben is a great product guy. That's what he does best.

I guess but the current bike stuff maker preoccupation with lighter-moreexpensive-better kinda wears me out.

Along the lines of 'halo bikes'.

[jr59]

Really?

lessee...say a $10,000 frame and fork. Campagnolo SR EPS or shimano 11s Di2, the most expensive carbon wheels in existence...that's only about $23000...and ya still gotta pedal it.

as opposed to a well made, custom steel frame, carbon fork. Mechanical shifting, handbuilt wheels.....probably 1/4 the price, probably w/i 2 pounds or so of the wunderbik...tack the extra $18,000 and buy a new car or a really nice motorcycle or a share of a Citabria(that's an airplane).....

I donno, I was yaking yesterday about why a bicycle is pushing $10,000 for something pretty average and this is less $.

http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2012-Ducati-Monster-696-106267596

I like the Duc!
Although I wish you would not post such things.
My shoulder is not well enough to ride my own and I want another MC badly!

[dekindy]

Regarding the forum's view of Serotta pricing, while not a doctor, I diagnose a bipolar disorder.:help:

[jlwdm]

I guess but the current bike stuff maker preoccupation with lighter-moreexpensive-better kinda wears me out.

Along the lines of 'halo bikes'.

Why speculate on an off-handed comment in a blog? Especially since Serotta has never been driven by weight considerations.

Jeff

[1centaur]

Three ways to get to $25k:

1) Exceptional finish work (one-off plating, anodizing, exceptional and desirable custom art).

2) A certain kind of cost accounting that assigns all costs of low-build numbers to the frame and then requires a set profit percentage.

3) Price-pull marketing: Yes it's priced above the sum of it's parts, but it's unique so if you want it, that's the price.

Do those $1MM supercars really have nearly a million dollars of work in them? They are halo marketing.

[pdmtong]

Three ways to get to $25k:

1) Exceptional finish work (one-off plating, anodizing, exceptional and desirable custom art).

2) A certain kind of cost accounting that assigns all costs of low-build numbers to the frame and then requires a set profit percentage.

3) Price-pull marketing: Yes it's priced above the sum of it's parts, but it's unique so if you want it, that's the price.

Do those $1MM supercars really have nearly a million dollars of work in them? They are halo marketing.

that has to be it. my LBS sold a dogma 2, with campy EPS, SRM and lightweigts. the cockpit has the cavendish stem but the post bar saddle and pedals were "normal". I htink it got into the $22-23k range. would have been higher if say a Z1 was used as a base since dogma 2 not necc the most $$ f/f on the market

[dd74]

Really?

lessee...say a $10,000 frame and fork. Campagnolo SR EPS or shimano 11s Di2, the most expensive carbon wheels in existence...that's only about $23000...and ya still gotta pedal it.

as opposed to a well made, custom steel frame, carbon fork. Mechanical shifting, handbuilt wheels.....probably 1/4 the price, probably w/i 2 pounds or so of the wunderbik...tack the extra $18,000 and buy a new car or a really nice motorcycle or a share of a Citabria(that's an airplane).....
Killjoy. Whenever I hear someone berate someone else about the cost/value of anything, this album title comes to mind.

[bluesea]

Really?

lessee...say a $10,000 frame and fork. Campagnolo SR EPS or shimano 11s Di2, the most expensive carbon wheels in existence...that's only about $23000...and ya still gotta pedal it.




Bye bye Serotta, how friggen ridiculous considering your history--which by the way IS history.

[dd74]

Bye bye Serotta, how friggen ridiculous considering your history--which by the way IS history.
But isn't the higher cost of a Serotta part of that history?

[bluesea]

But isn't the higher cost of a Serotta part of that history?


Touche :banana:

[4Rings6Stars]

So what if they want to have a $25K bike, I think it will be badass. Will I buy it? No, of course not.

They are taking HUGE steps in the right direction and offering ~$4K complete bikes...whey do we have to attack them for also offering a super high end bike?

[esldude]

I think most people here value Serotta for how good it can be, how much experience goes into each frame and probably believe they are near the top in terms of frame builders. The best of anything is rarely inexpensive.

I think many of us here are suffering from wishing to have our cake and eat it too. We want among the best possible frames, hoping the experience is in place and cost nothing. And Serotta can build the finest frames for no more than other people. Maybe even for less if they know what counts and what in frame building is superfluous to ride quality.

Serotta certainly hasn't had a history of overly embellishing their work, just making exceptional frames. No curly lugs, or fancy gimmick styling really. Just straightforward design with highest quality materials and workmanship.

Serotta certainly is free to pursue more the upper end of the market than the lower end. They might well be successful for it. Those of us with a McLaren/Ferrari sensibilities, and Honda/Toyota budgets aren't happy about it. As a group on this forum the budgets are probably more in line with BMW/Lexus/Mercedes, but still short of the even more expensive machines.

I don't think Serotta is a fit for really affordable machines. We all just hoped prices would drop some. Without seeing it no way to know if there is additional value in the design or some innovative ideas behind a $25k bike. There might be or not. I simply am not in a position to afford one so I am not the target market. That is okay.

As to whether it is the optimum path for the company, that is for them to decide and the general market of purchasers will let them know if they have chosen well or not.

[handsomerob]

IIRC

The outfit that made those "no it isn't a prototype" bikes for the Brits for the Olympics were offering them to the public for what on the surface would seem an obscene number... But probably would lose money given all the R&D and limited number of production.

I will never buy a $25k bike, but I can understand how a bike could cost that much and not really be as "overpriced" as one may initially think. Imagine a custom monocoque carbon frame... How much would the tooling cost to make one of those?

Edited to add... That is now my bet. A custom monocoque frame. The ultimate in lightweight, stiff, and custom all rolled in to one seemless monster. Not what I would ride but I could see a market for such an animal.

[Jack Brunk]

My head hurts everytime I see Serotta on this forum. Breakaway please.

[oldpotatoe]

Why speculate on an off-handed comment in a blog? Especially since Serotta has never been driven by weight considerations.

Jeff

why not, this is a discussion group-yes? I was 'discussing'.

[witcombusa]

My head hurts everytime I see Serotta on this forum. Breakaway please.

this ^

I understand the history of this place but that is now history. Some of the people here talk about that brand as if they are doing something (other than overpricing) different than others. I don't see it, nor is anything they are offering remotely interesting to me.

But don't dare to criticize the brand :eek:

[Smiley]

Lets say IF they came up with a $25K bike or frame set its all MARKETING cause we would be talking about it both ways...as Dumb idea or great way to get Serotta back into the conversation....me thinks its the latter.

[FlashUNC]

Three ways to get to $25k:

1) Exceptional finish work (one-off plating, anodizing, exceptional and desirable custom art).

2) A certain kind of cost accounting that assigns all costs of low-build numbers to the frame and then requires a set profit percentage.

3) Price-pull marketing: Yes it's priced above the sum of it's parts, but it's unique so if you want it, that's the price.

Do those $1MM supercars really have nearly a million dollars of work in them? They are halo marketing.

Volkswagen lost money on every Bugatti Veyron they sold.

[zap]

Volkswagen lost money on every Bugatti Veyron they sold.

VW can afford it and they had fun.

[merlincustom1]

Killjoy. Whenever I hear someone berate someone else about the cost/value of anything, this album title comes to mind.

Capitalism thrives on want creation.

[oldpotatoe]

Capitalism thrives on want creation.

Had a outside rep always tell me, 'gotta give them what they want'..

or is it 'tell them what they want'?

[merlincustom1]

Had a outside rep always tell me, 'gotta give them what they want'..

or is it 'tell them what they want'?

Often times the latter. Stuff isn't "new and improved" every year.

[jpw]

this ^

I understand the history of this place but that is now history. Some of the people here talk about that brand as if they are doing something (other than overpricing) different than others. I don't see it, nor is anything they are offering remotely interesting to me.

But don't dare to criticize the brand :eek:

but if a hipster workshop (and I could name several that are painfully so)...then cool.

[Dustin]

A dentist and his money are soon parted.

[rustylion]

bill here from Serotta.

Loved reading the comments on this thread.

I have even told Ben we should be the first to offer a $50,000 bike. Gold lugs? Platinum tubing? The best of the best components?

Silly and ridiculous? Oh, yes, most probably.

Maybe only a prince could buy the only one we could make but I would love to be the one to meet him at the airport as his 737 lands and hand him a bike that needs to ridden with a bodyguard and secured in the vault at night.

But, call us looney but could be a fun project...just maybe. Or, something else hatched in R&D....

Ben has done some cool stuff in the past and I contend he has not lost his touch. I am looking forward to what he will do in 2013....stay tuned.

Thanks for the comments.

ride hard, be well, have fun.
bill
518-584-8100x313
bill.watkins@serotta.com
www.rustylion.com

[FlashUNC]

VW can afford it and they had fun.

True, but there's also something to be said for the R&D in that car being applied to other models, and being viewed as an industry leader in this kind of thing.

To others' point in this thread, a $25k bike may sound ridiculous, but if its built with all the latest and greatest bells and whistles, that can change perceptions about the rest of the line.

Every Serotta I've owned has been of top notch construction. I may question the geometry choices they make on their stock models, but the fit and finish has always been stellar.

[Mikej]

bill here from Serotta.

Loved reading the comments on this thread.

I have even told Ben we should be the first to offer a $50,000 bike. Gold lugs? Platinum tubing? The best of the best components?

Silly and ridiculous? Oh, yes, most probably.

Maybe only a prince could buy the only one we could make but I would love to be the one to meet him at the airport as his 737 lands and hand him a bike that needs to ridden with a bodyguard and secured in the vault at night.

But, call us looney but could be a fun project...just maybe. Or, something else hatched in R&D....

Ben has done some cool stuff in the past and I contend he has not lost his touch. I am looking forward to what he will do in 2013....stay tuned.

Thanks for the comments.

ride hard, be well, have fun.
bill
518-584-8100x313
bill.watkins@serotta.com
www.rustylion.com

Not really sure about this direction. Sourcing a thin walled platinum tube may not be that easy. Ha ha I get it - its a joke!

[Nooch]

Volkswagen lost money on every Bugatti Veyron they sold.

I think a better conversation to have bringing up VW would be the Phaeton.

Here you have an exceptional automobile, in limited production, at the top end of the budget, selling right alongside the $15k Golf and Jetta.

Golf and Jetta - Pronto and Fondo
Passat and CC - Legend and Meivici
Phaeton - $25k superbike.

[dd74]

bill here from Serotta.

Loved reading the comments on this thread.

I have even told Ben we should be the first to offer a $50,000 bike. Gold lugs? Platinum tubing? The best of the best components?

Silly and ridiculous? Oh, yes, most probably.

Maybe only a prince could buy the only one we could make but I would love to be the one to meet him at the airport as his 737 lands and hand him a bike that needs to ridden with a bodyguard and secured in the vault at night.

But, call us looney but could be a fun project...just maybe. Or, something else hatched in R&D....

Ben has done some cool stuff in the past and I contend he has not lost his touch. I am looking forward to what he will do in 2013....stay tuned.

Thanks for the comments.

ride hard, be well, have fun.
bill
518-584-8100x313
bill.watkins@serotta.com
www.rustylion.com
I'm certain you guys will work it out. The history alone that Serotta has in American cycling should give the company incentive to survive.

As for a $25-$50k bike, if some of that tech were to trickle down to a $2-$4k bike, then all the better.

Meanwhile, exposure might help things for you. Articles in cycling magazines, newspapers, etc. You should think about it.