has anger ever gotten you anywhere?

[Climb01742]

on my ride saturday in the pouring rain, an SUV drove dead-center through a huge water puddle -- which it could easily have avoided -- and completely, utterly showered me in water. i flipped him the bird with all the drenched vigor and venom i had...he then drove on, seemingly unfazed...and a moment later i felt stupid. why was i getting angry? sure, i had a "right" to be angry, but where did it get me?

this thought has been coming up more and more recently. like when a fellow driver does something stupid -- which here in boston is a minute-by-minute occurance -- and i scream at them, honk at them, flip them the bird, or all three.

or like the many other times we get angry each day...where does it get us? it seems anger more often hurts us, not the person we're mad at. i don't want to become a wimp or a doormat, but does getting mad in 90% of the situations in which we do get mad, ever really make any difference?

has flipping a driver off ever changed their opinion of riders or made them drive any better? i've asked this question of myself a lot lately. does NOT reacting make us anything less? does letting some stupidity slide off our backs lessen us or take something away from us? i'm beginning to feel as though my anger is taking something away from me.

i'm gonna try for a while to not yell at cars that buzz me while riding, or that cut me off while driving. i can't quite put my finger on why, but it just feels lately like 99% of anger is pointless or more harmful to me than anyone else.

you?

[davids]

Climb,

I think you're actually gaining wisdom.

There are some days I'm able to join you there. Others, I just want to strangle the @ssholes...

Salut,

[e-RICHIE]

howard beale

[coylifut]

I get angry so rarely that I occasionally wonder if something is wrong with me. :argue:

[Russ]

This is just a slient epidemic.... I have asked this question to myself. And when I go out of town, I feel I have too much of that "urban rage" which I have to get rid of. But in reality I don't get angry, I just feel I am too quick to want to flip someone off, especially when I am on the bike.

Read on: http://www.ktvu.com/irresistible/5097884/detail.html

[Ginger]

I used to get angry at things like that, then I came to the realization that much like hate, it is a pointless waste of time and energy.

Positive thoughts.
Ginger

P.S. I won't say that anger hasn't fueled some positive progress I've made here and there when channeled properly; it has gotten me information or services that myself or a loved one needed, but I save it for those occasions.

[Ozz]

“Anybody can be angry. That is easy. But to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not easy.”

[jckid]

I've found that anger doesn't help most of the time. Sure it might help you get your frustrations out, but it doesn't really change what happened.

Several years back, I was riding with my (then) husband. A car nearly forced us off the road, and it was obvious that it was intentional. The shoulder was as wide as a full lane, and we were riding to the far right side of the shoulder, but the driver quickly swerved over as if he was going to hit us. Like you, my husband flipped the driver the bird. Well guess what? The guy slammed on his brakes, threw the car into reverse, and backed up with his tires screeching! Scared the crud out of me! Luckily it just ended with a verbal confrontation between the guy and my husband, and the guy eventually drove away.

I don't think my husband flipped anyone the bird after that! In this day in age, you just don't know how people will react. I considered myself lucky that day--The guy could have been on drugs, could have had a gun, or who knows what???--And it was a very lonely country road.

[Kevan]

but did Aristotle ride a bike?

I think not, cause riding a bike while being properly angry is simply too difficult for anyone to accomplish.

I tend to give friendly waves that only result in further infuriating my antagonists.

[Ozz]

I've never understood why so many people just freak out when they get flipped off....it's not like you don't know when you're being an a$$-hole. ;)

Kevan - being properly angry on a bike is channeling all that adrenaline into getting up the friggin hill faster.

And you are correct, nothing infuriates pricks more than not giving them the reaction they expected. A smile an a wave works well. :p

[Keith A]

climb -- I think you have got it right! But I must say it is difficult not to be angry with someone driving a two ton weapon that almost ended your life because of their stupidity, ignorance, carelessness, etc in operating their vehicle.

You might try what I sometimes do -- especially to the yellers and the honkers, which is to just give them a friendly little wave. It is interesting to see their reaction when you return a friendly response to their hostile remarks or horn.

I'll never forget the expression on an older gentleman who honked (or shouted) at me one morning on a neighborhood road. After he passed me I gave him a friendly wave and for some reason he was going pretty slow and could see his reaction in his rear view mirror. I could see him just staring at me in bewilderment, so I waved at him again. He continued to stare, so I gave him one more friendly wave to which he responded with a sheepish wave back at me. I felt like on this particular occasion, the guy realized that he was being rude to me and felt guilty for doing so.

[Ray]

The trick is to be really careful about how you use it. Taking on drivers is generally a highly risky approach, given that they have a 1-2 ton weapon at their immediate disposal. I've only been pushed beyond my breaking point a handfull of times over the 10 seasons I've been riding and did myself no good in those cases, but fortunately no real harm either. It takes quite a bit to set me off when I'm riding - I tend to just smile when drivers yell at me to get off the road.

But I've been in a few situations in my life where anger was absolutely inevitable. In some cases, I was able to turn it against the person who caused it to pretty good effect (there was the kid in 8th grade who finally pushed me too far and, after staying calm and warning him several times, I finally lost it and punched him really good in the gut during PE when nobody was watching - he couldn't breathe for about a minute and he NEVER messed with me after that). I've also made a screaming idiot of myself on a couple of occasions - I'm not at all proud of those and I think I learned from them for the most part (although in one case I got loud enough and acted crazy enough to chase a LOT of potential customers out of a car-dealership, so that was sort of effective too and the salesman REALLY deserved it :cool: - but I was TOTALLY out of control, which I don't like at all).

Good luck in eliminating this response. But don't beat yourself up too much if you fail occasionally. It's a pretty normal human response.

-Ray

[darylb]

howard beale


Getting out of my chair, or would that be saddle, and sticking my head out of the window and yelling. :argue:

[sc53]

Climb, I've got to agree with you, getting angry to the point of really showing it just does no good at all. I used to have a "flash" temper but as I've gotten older (I'm 52 now) I seem to flash far less frequently--maybe only once a year. A couple of weeks ago, I was riding to the far right of my local road (a residential road with a 35 mph limit which of course no one adheres to) on my way to the bike path, which is 1 1/2 miles down this road. I am a wuss who rides 100% of the time on my paved bike path (it goes 65 miles if you want to go to the end) but I have to use the road for 1 1/2 miles to get there. Some guy passes me in his car and screams, "This is a road not a bike trail!" I was so PISSED! I said nothing and didn't even look up, contemplating the irony, how I never even ride the roads because of a$$h0les like him. But for the rest of my ride I felt like a wimp for having said/done nothing. But what could I have done? Screamed back? Flipped him off? Totally ineffective and could result in my getting run over or shot. In the end, after 1 hour of fast riding on my fixed gear bike, I felt OK with having said nothing and OK with the world. The riding burned off the stress and anger. It's just such a shame that "we all can't just get along."

[CSi guy]

In Colorado many of the trucks passing are packing heat. The Subarus and Saabs are just packing tofu. I was riding one day when a a truck full of lawnmowers went past me and one of the mowers had flipped off the cart and was being dragged behind. It looked like it was smoking along trying to keep up. I waved crazily at the driver who finally looked in his rear view mirror and stopped and thanked me. I must refrain from any other hand jestures as a road rage incident a few years ago in Denver resulted in a cyclist being shot and killed. I was riding saturday and a mechanic from the local ford dealer almost ran me off the road and was speeding late to work. I did not wave at him or show him my love as I was afraid he might run me over on my return ride. As long as I don't get run over and it is a big a$$ truck I just grin and bear it.

[Cadence230]

Climb. Your comment:"...does NOT reacting make us anything less? does letting some stupidity slide off our backs lessen us or take something away from us?" I have been thinking of this alot lately with the increase of negligent drivers lately. I have been of the opinion of "Behavior such as this cannot remain unchecked" or can it? Does it do anygood? Usually I tap the car and give them a "***". I try, i really do to just let it drift away at the moment of the incident and not take it further so I think I do make an attempt to behave and be all zen-like. There was this guy named Fred something from Tulsa in the early 80's that rode for the Gianni Motta factory team and I believe he did the Giro. Anyway he had a reputation for hauling people out of their cars and pumelling them. Also another guy, in our club about 15yrs ago, took on a guy on the side of the road during our weekly time trial course and flogged him pretty good after the driver became beligerant. I don't know what the point of that was but say la vee.

[jerk]

climb-o,
please bear this in mind and take it with a grain of salt. you could always use your inner rage and frustration to allow you a powerful sprint enabling you to catch the individual at the next stop light....at which point you can tastefully remove his rear view mirror and get the hell out of there.

jerk

[Dekonick]

climb-o,
please bear this in mind and take it with a grain of salt. you could always use your inner rage and frustration to allow you a powerful sprint enabling you to catch the individual at the next stop light....at which point you can tastefully remove his rear view mirror and get the hell out of there.

jerk

You have serious b@lls if you reach INSIDE someone's car/SUV/Truck. The only thing I would do is kick a door if someone buzzes too close (dunno - a cop friend made the suggestion as a way to have proof you were 'hit' by a car...)

I knew a rider who carried paint and would leave a streak on a car/truck as they sped away laughing at nearly killing a cyclist...(somthing I would not do)

I know another guy who keeps a pocket of small bolts/nuts when he rides his motercycle...if someone gets too close he slowly starts letting them go one by one...usually resulting in a chipped windshield (again - something I would not do...)

It is easy to get pissed at all of the @ssholes driving around the Baltimore/DC area - wish there was an easy answer.

[PanTerra]

:crap:

[PanTerra]

(there was the kid in 8th grade who finally pushed me too far and, after staying calm and warning him several times, I finally lost it and punched him really good in the gut during PE when nobody was watching - he couldn't breathe for about a minute and he NEVER messed with me after that). -Ray

Ralphie Parker :cool:

[Tmogul]

Climb makes a good point. I think we all KNOW that rage or anger really gets us no where fast. However we are dealing with human tendencies. You can let one or two incidents slide off your back so to speak but the question is whether you really let it go completely. What happens when the same situation occurs over and over (city driving). We can all be accomodating on our next ride after reading this thread but after the 4th, 5th, 6th car cuts you off.........

You can only be so patient and holding it in all the time is not healthy. I guess the key is letting off the steam in a positive way before the boiler explodes. Cycling is great since after that fifth or sixth hill repeat or hard interval your cognitive functions break down and all you can think about is BREATHE....BREATHE...BREATHE :)

I'm reminded of a seinfeld episode....

SERENITY NOW!!!!!

[William]

I'm reminded of a seinfeld episode....

SERENITY NOW!!!!!

That doesn't work you know. ;)


I've found that a friendly wave and a big smile usually throws them off. They either are taken back and realize that they are being an A-hole, or they think your off your rocker and tend to leave you alone.
That being said, I've also thrown my share of birds and nasty remarks. I've also just muttered "**** head" under my breath and just kept going on my way. A lot depends on their actions and my mood. But for the most part, I usually remain pretty calm unless they really want to push the issue.

I've got better things to do with my time and effort.


William :beer:

[CNY rider]

Most of the responses on this thread seem to be talking about the sort of spontaneous rage that occurs in traffic or similar situations. I'd agree that in that setting, anger wil get you nowhere.

Effectively channeled, however, and in the right setting, anger is a very powerful emotion that can be used to your advantage. I'm no hothead, and
I doubt if there are more than 2 people in the world who have heard me really raise my voice. But woe to you if you do something that really gets me angry. I've gone so far as to tell people at work that no matter what they do, never to lie to me. I've had a manager (works under me) lie to my face, and caught him in it. Let's just say his career has taken some unpleasant turns since then, and it's only going to get worse. I've also seen innocent folks picked on and abused, and made careful note of the bully. Ultimately, they pay in spades.

[bcm119]

A smile and friendly wave is the best option. If the driver made a mistake, the sarcasm will make them feel bad, and if the driver was being a malicious a-hole, it will piss them off to see they failed to get to you. Nothing looks sillier to a redneck than a guy in tight lycra throwing a tantrum on the side of the road.

[jerk]

Most of the responses on this thread seem to be talking about the sort of spontaneous rage that occurs in traffic or similar situations. I'd agree that in that setting, anger wil get you nowhere.

Effectively channeled, however, and in the right setting, anger is a very powerful emotion that can be used to your advantage. I'm no hothead, and
I doubt if there are more than 2 people in the world who have heard me really raise my voice. But woe to you if you do something that really gets me angry. I've gone so far as to tell people at work that no matter what they do, never to lie to me. I've had a manager (works under me) lie to my face, and caught him in it. Let's just say his career has taken some unpleasant turns since then, and it's only going to get worse. I've also seen innocent folks picked on and abused, and made careful note of the bully. Ultimately, they pay in spades.

In lower Washington State in December , the jerk, a Medal of Honor-winning former cyclist, found that he was the last surviving member of his team. Disconsolate after finding out about the death of his last remaining comrade, he wandered into the nearby town of Hope, WA, where local sheriff Wilfred Teasle gaves him a lift - straight out of town; Teasle explains in no uncertain terms that "bike riders" like jerk are not welcome in town. Insulted by Teasle's action, the jerk boldly returned to town and was falsely arrested for vagrancy and resisting arrest. His treatment at the hands of Teasle's deputies grew even harsher, as he was beaten and sprayed with a firehose. When the deputies tried to force-shave him, the jerk (briefly flashing back to memories of torture in a 3 day hilly stage race) went berserk and broke free; he commandeered a bicycle and fled into the nearby hills. As the sheriff's posse pursed, one belligerent deputy violated orders and tried to kill the jerk - and in the process an accident leaves the deputy dead. Misunderstandings pile up and Teasle shot the jerk, but the jerk survived and when the posse pressed their pursuit, the jerk used his well-honed survival and combat skills to cripple the posse and left Teasle with a warning to leave him alone - a warning repeated by Rambo's recently arrived former director, who understood how outclassed Teasle and newly arrived National Guardsmen were against the jerk. Teasle, however, wanted the jerk dead, and the pursuit led to a bloody confrontation and a final plea for and end to the violence.

oh, wait that was some other guy. rnever mind.

Rambo says no to violence!

jerk

[toaster]

Gee, road rage. One of my favorite topics. I imagine that the driver who has an opportunity to run through a puddle dousing a cyclist truly enjoys that moment and if it makes the cyclist angry then his mission is fittingly accomplished and a very satisfying giggle resonates completely thoughout his entire being.

That feels gooooood!!!

What can you do? Take the soaking and laugh. Or, get angry. Well, actually you should get angry and then laugh because you deserve better and the driver deserve his payback at some point.

Most motorists are cowards when driving around cyclists. They can be bullies and not have to face retribution. They feel justified because they are ignorant of rules of behavior and suffer a severe case of what I call "vehicleism" ( believing that they have rights above and beyond non-motorists on paved roads).

I wait for the day I confront a bully and tear his stupid head off.

[david]

howard beale

travis bickle.

[Skrawny]

Climb,
I don't know what you look like, but I'm imagining a shaved head and saffron robes. Incense anyone?
-s

[Don]

Why not try something constructive such as becoming an active bicycling advocate in your area? Channel that energy into working with law enforcement so that they understand cyclists' rights as well as obligations. Use peer pressure to demand fellow riders understand running red lights and failure to signal turns help create a "damn the cyclists" attitude.

We can be and often are our own worst enemy. No, this doesn't mean that all will be perfect in the long run. But, it will go a long way to gain the respect on the road to which we are entitled.

Don

[cs124]

... Ultimately, they pay in spades.

and you're proud of this passive-agressive behaviour?

[bpm]

Whenever I read a thread like this, on this or any other forum, a few people always suggest what I would consider to be fairly drastic measures in response to being buzzed, cut-off, splashed, etc. I'm talking about more than just flipping them off or yelling. I'm talking about the nuts and bolts comment, spray paints, and reaching into their car responses mentioned above.

In my younger days, I was one to condone such responses (I was known to toss open water bottles of gatorade into offendors open windows). But as my brother-in-law and father (both cops) have suggested, if you were to respond in such a way, you may actually be the one guilty of a crime. For example, a car buzzes you, intentionally or otherwise. You respond by throwing a bolt and breaking the windshield, or scratching the door, tearing off a mirror, or worse, reaching into their car and hitting them. You are now the guilty party. Damaging the car is one thing, but if you actually hit the person, that's assault.

Not to mention, no matter how tough you are, there's always someone tougher. Picking a fight with someone in a car might just be a quick way to realize that you are not in fact as tough as you thought. And if the person isn't tough enough to kick your ***, they may just be a card carrying NRA member and more than willing to demonstrate their marksmanship.

Sorry for the rant, but I watched a friend chase after a car that buzzed us, only to come accross them at an intersection a few seconds later, with my friend sporting a banged up frame courtesy of a tire iron, and an irate driver who was able to convince the police that it was in self defense.

A smile and a wave, that's my suggestion.

[Peter]

I can speak from experience about road rage.

Though it wasn't on a bicycle THIS time, I was arrested for road rage this past June.

I had just finished working a little overtime and had stopped to gas up the company van. The small convenience mart had only two sets of pumps, and all the after-work commuters were populating the parking lot. I was the last vehicle to fit on the property. I'm third in line, waiting patiently my turn to reach the pumps.

Behind me, I see a carload of college age women pull up. They can't get their car off the road as I'm occupying that last piece of real estate in the parking lot. Someone in the car yells, 'MOVE YOUR @$*%!!!"

Ever see the movie "Telefon" where the secret killers live dormant lives until one day, they answer the phone and hear the verse of a Robert Frost poem which turns them into assassins? Well, "MOVE YOUR @$*%! was my phone call.

I approached the car on the passenger side and started screaming at the driver, "WHAT'D YOU SAY TO ME SH%T F$CE!? GO AHEAD, SAY IT AGAIN!" Then I got back into my van.

I won't bore you with the details but I was arrested for Breach of Peace. Three weeks later I went to court and applied for Accelerated Rehabilitation, which means if I don't get arrested again within a period of time (in my case, 8 weeks) my record is cleared and sealed.

Three weeks later I had to go to court again for approval of entry into the A.R. program.

This wouldn't have been that great a deal, but I did it ON COMPANY TIME, even though it was after regular working hours. I dutifully told my boss and told him I would accept responsibility for whatever punishment was meted out to me, including firing. I didn't lose my job, but I could have. Actually, my costs are still rising because, as a condition set by my employer, I have to attend Anger Management classes which I expect to cost $200-400. Note: my employer even acknowledges that I do not have a history of angry outbursts and that this was a one time occurance.

My out of pocket expenses for the ordeal were $300-400. I look at it as tuition for a class on life in general and how our legal system works. Those lessons were priceless. You would not believe...

Anyway, the arresting officer, who was very professional and polite to a fault, told me the only reason I was charged was because I touched the other vehicle. Had I not leaned into the passenger side window to give the driver a piece of my mind, I would not have been arrested. And in retrospect, screaming invectives didn't help my case. Had I turned on my Parent ego state and screamed at them that they were to wait their turn in line and not said anything inflammatory, I would not have been arrested. But when we react on impulse and emotion...

I should mention that, at my court hearing, the prosecuter read the arrest report and acknowledged to the judge that the "road rage" incident was initiated by the other party, which was recognized by the judge and reflected in my punishment. I felt the court system had truly tried to be fair in my case.

On a bike, I can be a hot head, but this incident taught me a lot. In the future, if I'm pissed off by a driver I'll sooner launch into a sprint to diffuse all the piss, vinegar, and rage which has instantly been released. Admittedly, there's still a side of me which wants revenge, and I've learned that just plain pulling up alongside the miscreant and staring at them is more effective at boiling their blood than screaming, and it's not a chargeable offense...hmmmm.

[Kevan]

I'm having trouble getting past Rambo looking typically like this:

http://www.planet.nl/upload_mm/9/1/0/1958157098_1999998640_Rambo_337.jpg

and instead, jumping on his bike, he's wearing one of these:

http://www.cambriabike.com/Images/product/colnago_headband_lg.jpg

I guess it's not altogether a bad look, just one I will have to get used to.

[ti_boi]

Fascinating thread. I have had to tone down my road rage since I became a dad, though it has not abated. I don't want to expose my daughter to that kind of thing. Though I'm not perfect and have a real mean streak, I try to keep it in check. At 6'3" 235 and an ex-rugby player, I have no problem dishing out pain to other human beings. But most of the worst drivers are women and old men...so there is just no fun in that at all :D

I have more issues with drivers tailgating me with the little one in the car. Recently I was being tailgated by a BMW SUV (I'm in the Volvo Cross Country--I dunno, some kinda German/Swedish issue?!) and I lose my temper...wife and baby in the car. I lob a full water bottle out of the window in in perfect trajectory to nail the offending driver's windshield. It came down right before the other car...without making contact.

My wife was silent and I felt pretty stupid afterward. What if I had hit that other car? After the anger subsided, I was actually relieved; That would have been one hassle I could do without.

When I am on my bike (being fairly imposing I suppose) people generally steer clear of me. Which is nice. I hope to never have to 'protect' myself but I carry the hardened steel three pronged allen wrench (that looks like a weapon) to adjust the seat....and I am sure that would put a nice hole in a car or a driver's head.

Still, it is key that I be the 'role model' now....and that entails not being a hot head and not getting killed in some kind of mindless altercation with a complete stranger at a stoplight.

[cookieguy]

Admittedly not a bicycling situation....

One of the best pieces of professional advice I ever received was that it was OK to ACT angry but never acceptable to BE angry.

It's distressing how often in a large organization how often the bad acting technique of HAPPY = GOOD, NOT HAPPY = BAD approach needs to be used.

I freak out my share of people being able to apparently giving an emotionally felt rant and seconds later joking around. It the great scheme of things I'm a really bad actor but it seems to be effective.

Be afraid of the modern workplace....

Must go ride.

[dirtdigger88]

so much of my riding is done in the city that I can almost always catch a car if I really wanted to- if the need comes up - I roll up the the window and TELL them to watch out for cyclist- 9 out of 10 times it blows their minds that I actually rode up to them and told them their driving sucked- they dont know how to respond

Jason

[The Spider]

A common theme throughout this thread is fear of the rest of the population. There is alot of behavior and experiences when other people treat you and your friends as an inconvenience and less than human. No respect given.

You wave and smile and try to convert the fight/flight response into friendly behavior.

We're vulnerable and others are bullying and picking on us, but instead of standing up to this behavior and saying "just not on" we can't...fear of retrabution and that they are 'packing' a weapon or gun. A constatutional right has filled some people with fear.

Society and a sense of community has truely crumbled.

I'm never going to smile and pretend it's OK (I tried on the weekend, I really did) that I get treated as non-human with no rights or respect whilst I spend my days trying to help others. It's not acceptable.

Does the screaming and ranting do anything? Does the smiling and waving do anything? Do people who drive and behave in these ways deserve a smile and a wave?

hopping off my soapbox now...think I'll go for a ride.

[slowgoing]

Climb - If you feel like flipping the bird or cussing, do it. Don't try to rationalize your behavior or you might end up internaling that stress and killing yourself. So what if it doesn't change the behavior of the driver? Is that why you do it? I don't think so. You do it because you're mad and you feel like releasing the stress. So I say if it makes you feel good, do it.

[David Kirk]

My anger once got me two broken ribs and a severly bruised ego........long story.

Moral of the story.........as a 1st degree black belt never get mad at a 5th degree black belt and let it come out during a sparing match.

Dave

[soulspinner]

Got a buddy who carries a few ball bearings and whips them at vehicles that buzz him. He says this gives him great pleassure...he he

[William]

My anger once got me two broken ribs and a severly bruised ego........long story.

Moral of the story.........as a 1st degree black belt never get mad at a 5th degree black belt and let it come out during a sparing match.

Dave

The often encountered but little under stood phenomena of Escalato. Not a game to be played with someone who has more experience and better skills then yourself. :no:


William ;)

[Sandy]

The often encountered but little under stood phenomena of Escalato. Not a game to be played with someone who has more experience and better skills then yourself. :no:


William ;)

I am a 10th degree black belt. Now will you stop scaring me all the time and threatening to beat me up? :)

Still So Scared Serotta Sandy

[dbrk]

I pontificate on being serene professionally and so don't intend to prate here on my own time or particularly waste yours. ("Fat chance," yer thinking...) Others pay me to do that! But I do like hanging with my cycling pals even when conscience summons me to back to such ignoble work. The very good news is that I am expecting a visit today from fellowForumite Ken Robb who is in NY (Ken being a SoCal guy...) with his lovely wife. We shall wander among the bicycles in the basement (further pontification on my part) and hopefully share a perfectly wonderful meal (that depends on India House, not the good company).

There is no immunity to anger and it's folly to think anyone, be it the Buddha, the Dalai Lama, or NameYerSaint, doesn't continue to feel it or be it, no matter how enlightened. The key, I think, is not to act on it because that just prolongs the intentionality, exacerbates the negative features of the experience, and otherwise creates very unhappy consequences. Anger, like trash or toxins, needs to be put where it should go. But that said, we _should_ get angry at some things, no? Are there no injustices that warrant rage? I won't feel poorly for feeling some kind of reasoned rage. Aristotle got it right (that was a swell quotation, no?) But, as we all know, there are many consequences to acting out anger, and too few of them make things better for ourselves.

So a story of my own indignation. I got literally run off the road not too long ago. It wasn't too dangerous because I was lucky and I took the spill easily. I felt the rage pointedly because the guy really meant to do it. He stopped to taunt and laugh at me. Apparently, I was riding on his road causing him traffic (though I could have sworn I pay taxes too, was in fact well to the side and no where near his road, and that he too is traffic...funny thing). But rather than rage back at this mean-spirited dolt, I was happy to see him leave and the only thing I regret now is the memory. I have already learned this lesson, I think, and don't particularly need to accumulate more examples. I feel like there are a lot of such angry people though there seem to be as many generous and decent ones, sometimes they are actually the same person! I suppose it all depends.

We can lament the lack of civility and foist the repsonsibility on either individuals or society (pick your politics), but I'd be content making it home in one piece and a life that doesn't suffer too much either for success or failure. I fancy myself no great hero but I insist on not being yet another brute or villian.

dbrk

[Climb01742]

one thing i've noticed when i feel angry is that there are a lot of other ideas involved. often i get angry about things that i feel are unfair or unjust. or i get angry went my space has been violated. or when i feel as though i haven't been respected or treated as an equal.

as douglas said, there are certainly times when anger is an appropriate response. but i'm finding out with myself, anyway, that my anger often involves not so much the actions of others, but the ideas that i carry around with me. i get caught up in what i think "should" happen, vs trying to deal more directly with what is happening.

[RABikes2]

That doesn't work you know. ;)
I've found that a friendly wave and a big smile usually throws them off. They either are taken back and realize that they are being an A-hole, or they think your off your rocker and tend to leave you alone.

I've also just muttered "**** head" under my breath and just kept going on my way. William :beer:
I agree with my Big Cuz. Smile and wave; throw 'em a peace sign. However, instead of muttering "**** head", I usually will wave and wish them, while smiling, "I hope you have continuous diarrhea for two days." Helps to keep the humor up with the visual of the damn redneck running to find a bathroom in some filthy gas station. :D

RA

[Kevan]

but I can’t understand taking any unnecessary risks with someone who has such an obvious advantage over us, meaning, a cyclist confronting an adversary who has immediate access and control of a potential deadly weapon, a motor vehicle. It’s obvious too that the road’s shoulder that we call our own makes for a poor reef as protection. We as cyclists are the sardines of the road, easy food for the bigger fish. As I had stated in my first posting here, “I tend to give friendly waves that only result in further infuriating my antagonists.”, but that statement in itself, is not the entire picture. Certainly, I like feeding their goat, as I know a hearty wave will do, but maybe, just maybe, if the guy isn’t too out of his mind with rage, he’ll take the gesture as trying to be friendly and ponder his own behavior. Then again… maybe not.

[bluesea]

I caved in a guy's door once with my bare feet. Caught him at the next light, ripped my shoes off (damned Carnac Lemonds /w laces under straps) and called for him to get out of his car. Dood wouldn't budge. I was riding at speed limit and he had purposely drove around in an aggressive manner, missing me by mere inches. The door was *completely* caved in. He deserved it but the anger that goes with such retaliation is highly negative and is bourne by oneself, so there is a price. With age come wisdom. Its not worth ruining my smart wools.

[dbrk]

one thing i've noticed when i feel angry is that there are a lot of other ideas involved.... but i'm finding out with myself, anyway, that my anger often involves not so much the actions of others, but the ideas that i carry around with me. i get caught up in what i think "should" happen, vs trying to deal more directly with what is happening.

Interesting how normative values (the oughts and shoulds) creep into the descriptive ones (what actually, more or less, happens), no? But it's an axiom of the ancients that one emotion or feeling leads and associates with another.

Anger is often dangerous, almost always ungracious company. Since we become the company we keep--- whether that company be thoughts, feelings, or whatever sort of experience including other people--- it is probably wiser still to keep good company. So I find much wisdom in ol'Climbpal's idea here: for one thing always leads to another and if you can nip the line, well, you can turn the glass and keep good accounts (sorry for the nautical allusions there...but O'Brian is Da'Man for fun locutions).

Who knows what other people are thinking, I can't help but be more concerned with how the whole matter affects my own state. Wish them well and send them out of your life, as quickly as possible. 'Tis all too short to feel poorly about.

dbrk

[deechee]

guilty. I'm a hothead on the bike, and have some road rage in the car as well. I'm also generally angry with "stupid people". I really need to waste less energy on this and just "chilll". (Especially considering I'm not a big guy.)

As soon as I read the thread, the first thing I could think of was the movie "Crash" by Paul Haggis. There's a scene in there where Sandra Bullock breaks down and starts crying admitting that she's *always* feeling angry, and she doesn't know why. I can completely relate...

For relaxation, I recommend renting "Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter... Spring". Its a Korean film about a boy growing up with a monk, a very simple story and the scenery breathtaking. I saw it with my sis a while ago, and driving home from the theatre, I felt so at peace with the world. I wish I could feel this way everyday.

[Climb01742]

i have quite a temper, which is why the question of anger is important to me. a key thing i'm trying to get myself to understand is...if we get angry because of what others do, then they have control over us. but if you look at anger as something that happens inside of you, then the control rests with you. very few actions in life have any inherent, absolute meaning. they mean what we say they mean; only we give them meaning. anger doesn't happen in the outside world. it happens inside us; it seems, with practice, we could turn that facet off. that's the theory, any way. :crap:

[jimh]

Climb:
Once you realize that the individual driving that SUV was Stupid, the easier it will be in the future to not flip them off. The world is full of selfish morons who drive around oblivious and don't care about others. Most people these days seem to wraped up in their cell phones and blackberrys that they have no idea there is life outside of theirs. I feel sorry for these individuals that they miss out on the smells,sights,and sounds that we enjoy as cyclists. When a motorist does something like that to me I usually just whisper a quote from Butthead "Dumb ***", and I continue riding.

Good luck with you anger management.

[Len J]

i have quite a temper, which is why the question of anger is important to me. a key thing i'm trying to get myself to understand is...if we get angry because of what others do, then they have control over us. but if you look at anger as something that happens inside of you, then the control rests with you. very few actions in life have any inherent, absolute meaning. they mean what we say they mean; only we give them meaning. anger doesn't happen in the outside world. it happens inside us; it seems, with practice, we could turn that facet off. that's the theory, any way. :crap:

between what we feel and how we choose to act on that feeling. Most people see them as one and the same (as evidenced by many of the responses to this thread).

There are many times I feel angry........I am getting better and better at recognizing it and then choosing when to act on that anger and how I act on that anger. Have you ever read or heard about the steps in changing a behavior? They are:

1.) I have an unconcious "Bad" behavior. I don't even realize that I am doing this.
2.) I have a conscious "bad" behavior. I'm still doing it, but now I begin to recognize it.......initially this recognition is well after I have this behavior....over time, If I'm persistant, I begin to recognize this behavior sooner and sooner until I reach the point where I recognize that I'm about to do this.
3.) I have a concious "(replacement) good" behavior. Once I recognize it, I can choose to do something different. If I do this enough, it eventually becomes......
4.) An unconscious "good" behavior.

Most people don't realize that you have to go thru all 4 steps to choose to change a behavior.

As with most things there is a choice (wether concious or unconscious) in everything we do or don't do.

Len

[Litespeeder]

A few months back, I drove around another car at an intersection and he perceived that I had intentionally cut him off. He started to yell at me and he caught up with me at the next intersection. I flipped him off while we were stopped and he blew me a kiss. That kiss diffused the whole situation and it made me realize just how silly I was to give him the bird. My point is that you can make the other guy feel a lot worse if you are polite to him and laugh it off.

Remember, the other guy is trying to make you feel bad by flipping you off or cutting you off or cussing at you or whatever. If you get angry then he has succeeded in passing on his misery to you. If you don't get angry then he loses. You have to remember that there are a lot of miserable people out there who either consciously or subconsciously look for situations to insult or verbally assault others. They are so miserable that they take pleasure in making others people’s lives miserable. It's sad but true. They can't handle politeness or good manners. So, when you respond to their meanness with politeness or good manners you make them feel much worse than any angry jester that you can throw at them. Kindness freaks them out.


:bike:

[bluesea]

I really don't understand this flipping the bird thing. I learned to do it in grade school, but quickly moved on to the real thing as is the custom here in the State I live in. I doubt my hand even remembers how to do it. Whenever I see it I almost bust out laughing--its an effeminate gesture if anything.

[OldDog]

Don't get MAD - get GLAD...carry a plastic garbage bag, at the next intersection, pull the B@$#%D out of his car and put the bag over his head, beat and suffocate him! :butt: :no: :argue: :crap:



Just kidding....really.

Anger is no different than any other emotion. Lots of good suggestions here to channel it.

Old-Fat-Happy-Dog
who only gets angry if you try to pull a new silk tubie out of my mouth.

[tch]

on this thread and some practical ones. Here's an observation I made about myself. When I was in college, I got very involved in the practice of Shotokan Karate -- not your typical "beat 'em up" karate taught all over but a spiritual/physical practice. When I was deep into it, I could not be roused to anger -- period. I could summon significant physical action and energy at will, but could not get p.o.'d at anything.

Since then, I have fallen away from this discipline and I find that I am again angered by things. If I could, I would return to some kind of true martial arts practice. It made my life better in a lot of ways, and this was one.

[Tom]

- Like Climb said, when I get hung up on what I think ought to be and not what is I'm more angry and stressed. I have to keep telling myself that.
- Dignity and humor. If they're stupid, why do you need to match it? I like RaB's approach: think up a good creative way to wish them what they deserve. You start laughing and there you go.
- This thing about "I won't attack 'em cause I'm small or they might have a gun or retaliate" is no good. How about civil behavior for the sake of civility? This thing that civilization is entirely based on not provoking a violent reaction really pisses me off. I mean, really pisses... oh yeah. That's what is. Ah, well. I go rake leaves now.

[andy mac]

There seem to be a few different issues at hand.

1. General anger. Pent up frustration that could be from anything and everything in your life. It gets bottled up then unloaded on the often unfortunate person who tips you over the edge. ie. the back breaking straw. Could be at work, with family, on the bike etc. A negative energy and not a good way to get through life.

2. anger at people who nearly kill you when you are riding a bike. Let’s face it, every time we ride we are increasing our odds of being killed. Many of us know people who have died as a result of a stupid driver.

Bike question is, will getting angry make the driver more aware of cyclists? If you ***** them out will they be more aware in the future? If you are nice will they be more aware? Does anything really work?

My guess it depends on the driver’s personality. What will they respond to? Often hard to gauge on the fly.


* full disclosure I’m a bit of a hot head although have mellowed out a bit. I have slapped a few cars in my time – usually they don’t even know you are there. Years ago I spat on an SUV (I know, not proud. It was dumb, young, split second reaction.) The driver chased me for about 5 minutes across median strips, lawns etc. My first experience at ‘cross. Eventually he gave up.

Another time a driver punched me for running a redlight. And finally, once I swore at a guy who nearly ran me down. He asked me not to swear in front of his children who were in the back out of sight. I said it was a deal if he didn’t make me a paraplegic. He shut up.

* Flip side: Another time I was driving and coming into a round about. A ton of cyclists were blowing through so I slowed down to let them pass. A woman on a nice bike *****ed me out for slowing down. I guess she didn’t realize why I was doing it. I wanted to catch up to her, challenge her to a race and kick her ***.

OK, I am evil.

[ClutchCargo]

The often encountered but little under stood phenomena of Escalato. Not a game to be played with someone who has more experience and better skills then yourself. :no:


William ;)

Confucius say: 10th degree black belt in the art of karate ("empty hand") always lose to green belt in the art of go-hun ("speeding pellet").

seriously, retaliating against someone in a 2 ton vehicle is a dangerous game. I have a friend (6'2") who caught up to a little beemer at a stop light and kicked the fender, only to see the driver unfold himself from behind the wheel, come round the car and thrash both my friend and his bike. and these days there are too many fools with guns, so even if you are Bad, Bad Leroy Brown . . .

many good points have been made here. I would just add that many times we perceive an intention on the part of the driver that may not be real. Not to excuse the consequences of ignorant or incompetent driving, but often it is just that, and not intentional. as bike riders, though, our persecution antennae are more sensitive than is good for us. we believe we are being buzzed and immediately get ready to go ballistic, when in fact grandpa just thinks he has to stay on his side of the road and would be breaking the law if he crossed the yellow line. or we take the honk of the horn to mean "get out of the road" when it is actually just intended to be a courtesy so we know there's a car back.

better to follow your parent's advice and count to ten. or as my kids would say, "just chill." and ...

ride on!

[David Kirk]

[QUOTE=ClutchCargo]Confucius say: 10th degree black belt in the art of karate ("empty hand") always lose to green belt in the art of go-hun ("speeding pellet").

Otherwise known as "never bring a knife to a gun fight".

Dave

[weisan]

This is a good thread. I enjoyed reading everybody's perspectives, thanks Climb-0 for creating it in the first place.

"...not seven times but seventy-seven times."

Guard our hearts carefully, hold our thoughts captive. Be still.

As always, do what I say, not do what I do for I am, afterall, the original "Mr. Volcano." :D
http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/Documents/etna-eruption.jpg

[ti_boi]

I caved in a guy's door once with my bare feet. Caught him at the next light, ripped my shoes off (damned Carnac Lemonds /w laces under straps) and called for him to get out of his car. Dood wouldn't budge. I was riding at speed limit and he had purposely drove around in an aggressive manner, missing me by mere inches. The door was *completely* caved in. He deserved it but the anger that goes with such retaliation is highly negative and is bourne by oneself, so there is a price. With age come wisdom. Its not worth ruining my smart wools.


Sounds like you were fortunate not to have hurt your 'bare' foot.....I'd be afraid of stepping on something during a potential scuffle if I removed shoes. Which is the point here. Chances are you will hurt your self more in the long (or short run) if You lose it! Temper, which is something I understand and fear in myself, is very destructive. You'll be sorry to have 1. an assault rap 2. the injuries from an altercation 3. the possible add-ons to the temper tantrum like guilt and remorse.

While you may think a burst of anger might give you the strength of ten men, what you do with that strength is what really matters.

CALM IS STRENGTH.....UPSET IS WEAKNESS.

[bulliedawg]

The driver chased me for about 5 minutes across median strips, lawns etc. My first experience at ‘cross.

Now THAT is funny.

I don't understand the people on this threat who say that it's dumb to challenge a person who is in a car because the car is a 2,000-pound weapon. After the person has already buzzed you, and you call him an *******, is there really any fear that he's going to run you over? It's nearly impossible to run somebody over if they know that it's coming.

Anyhow, I'm sometimes buzzed on the rural roads of Northeast Georgia, and I never hesitate to flip them the bird, sometimes wave for them to come back so that I can kick their asses, or sometimes, if the terrain is right, I take my hands off the bars and flex my biceps (no joke), and I've never had someone turn around. Why do I do it? Because it makes me feel better. I guess I'm a shallow person.

I've been in enough confrontations to know that 99% of the time, the challenger is all bull**** and bluster. If one of these people is carrying a gun, and they want to use it, they'll used it when they buzz you to begin with.

[shoe]

it isn't easy some days thats for shore...i just don't like getting p?ssed so i am trying to let things go. when someone is out of line on the road i sometimes think if you mess with them it will just encourage them to mess with other cyclists..that whole violence perpetuates more violence expression...i now just try to be friendly to drivers and it feels much better and hopefully make them more aware of other people on the road other than themselves..was riding on a road today with a foot of a shoulder and there was a crushed garbage can on the edge....i look behind me to make sure i can get around alright and see a big pick up with a trailer ...so i just stop and take the can out of the road...they slow down and go by and give a friendly wave....and i realize that this is how i want to react to drivers when i can....sometimes easier said than done -as we all know to just let stuff roll off of you isn't so easy....dave

[slowgoing]

I can’t understand taking any unnecessary risks with someone who has such an obvious advantage over us, meaning, a cyclist confronting an adversary who has immediate access and control of a potential deadly weapon, a motor vehicle

Just because a driver will buzz you when you're riding doesn't mean he or she will deliberately run you over when you are stopped and off your bike. Rednecks, maybe, but not the typical hothead. My experience has been that drivers will take liberties when they think they can argue that they had the right of way or you were somewhere you didn't belong -- when you are riding your bike and sharing the road with them. Get off your bike and wait for them, especially on the sidewalk or shoulder, and they realize it's going to be indefensible assault with a motor vehicle or worse.

[manet]

Wish them well and send them out of your life, as quickly as possible. 'Tis all too short to feel poorly about.
dbrk

aye, aye

[ClutchCargo]

Now THAT is funny.

I don't understand the people on this threat who say that it's dumb to challenge a person who is in a car because the car is a 2,000-pound weapon. After the person has already buzzed you, and you call him an *******, is there really any fear that he's going to run you over? . . .

I've been in enough confrontations to know that 99% of the time, the challenger is all bull**** and bluster. If one of these people is carrying a gun, and they want to use it, they'll used it when they buzz you to begin with.

hey, we'll be sure to place flowers on your grave ...

the use of a gun in a road rage incident invariably occurs in an escalating argument that follows the initial slight. remember, it only takes one time. is it really worth that much to flex your muscles (literally and figuratively!) ? :rolleyes:

[toaster]

I got hit on my back while riding by the fold-back rear view mirror mounted on the passenger side of a newer model truck because the driver wanted to show he belonged on the road more than I did. I gathered this info after I waved him back and he pulled over. The first words out of his mouth were "What are you doing out in the middle of the street?"

I told him cyclists don't weave in and around parked cars but rather stick with one distance away from the curb that allows us to pass parked cars when we encounter them. I mentioned that it's OK to cross into the next lane over the dotted white line if you can or slow down and pass safely if cars in the other lane won't allow room to move.

So, I stayed calm and argued a rational position and told him this is based on common sense. I told him that I don't care what his feelings about bicyclists are but that no matter what it's still a person who could be severely injured by his actions. He goes, "What!, you're saying it's my fault?" I countered with "Well, it certainly isn't mine, is it?

The whole time his 12 year old daughter is sitting real quiet in the passenger side probably thinking how her father meant to hit the man on the bicycle and how it scared both her and her dad.

[ti_boi]

I got hit on my back while riding by the fold-back rear view mirror mounted on the passenger side of a newer model truck because the driver wanted to show he belonged on the road more than I did. I gathered this info after I waved him back and he pulled over. The first words out of his mouth were "What are you doing out in the middle of the street?"

I told him cyclists don't weave in and around parked cars but rather stick with one distance away from the curb that allows us to pass parked cars when we encounter them. I mentioned that it's OK to cross into the next lane over the dotted white line if you can or slow down and pass safely if cars in the other lane won't allow room to move.

So, I stayed calm and argued a rational position and told him this is based on common sense. I told him that I don't care what his feelings about bicyclists are but that no matter what it's still a person who could be severely injured by his actions. He goes, "What!, you're saying it's my fault?" I countered with "Well, it certainly isn't mine, is it?

The whole time his 12 year old daughter is sitting real quiet in the passenger side probably thinking how her father meant to hit the man on the bicycle and how it scared both her and her dad.


...and in that conversation, you could calmly and carefully inform him that cyclists and cars observe the same rights and rules of the road. Advise him that you are taking down his lisc. plate number and to expect a phone call from the police once you have reported him. No hostile words. No drama.

[Keith A]

To go along with shoe's comments...a while back I was riding on a low speed two lane road that is adjacent to a neighborhood area. This particular road narrows to a unusually skinny two lane road. Just before the road narrows down, I could hear a big truck (like a semi or dump truck) and could also see a bunch of traffic coming towards us, so I decided to hop onto the sidewalk to let him pass -- for MY safety. I was surprised to hear a friendly honk from the driver of the truck acknowledging my effort to give him all of the road without having to try and get around me with the oncoming traffic. So I waved back at him and felt good that he might show the same consideration to the next cyclists he encounters.

[Tom]

I have noticed that if I repeat their license plate number to them it defuses things really fast. One time I had a guy in a truck yelling "You want a piece of me? You want a piece of me?" back in my running days. I told him what his vanity plates read and he stopped mid yell. It was pretty funny. Ever since then I just read them their plates. The other thing it accomplishes is that it confuses them and when you clear the bad thoughts from their head things usually come out better.

[Keith A]

And finally a word of caution to those who decide to act out against the aggressive drivers. This is an experience that I won't soon forget even though it happened about five years ago....

Early one morning, a group of three of us were riding on a lightly traveled two-lane road and were slowing for stop sign at "T" intersection. Some yahoo in a truck comes by us and yells some obscenities along with something about running us off the road. He then quickly cuts in front of us, almost hitting the first rider and then goes off the road as to reinforce his statement about running us off the road. There are a couple of cars in front of him waiting to turn onto the next road. The jerk is turning left (based on his signal) and there is barely enough room to squeeze past him without going off the road as we proceed to the stop sign where we are turning right.

As I pass the bed of his truck, I slap the bed with my open hand, which makes a loud noise. This really sets the guy off, so he forgoes his intended destination and turns right and chases us down. He pulls up beside us and is almost fuming at the mouth, and is yelling for us to stop and is serving his truck at us and almost hits us on several occasions. Even with two other people with me (one was a female), I'm not about to stop because this guy is a lunatic. He speeds ahead, pulls off the road and gets out of this truck and tries to tackle me as I approach him. I easily avoid this crazy man and continue down the road. He decides to give up and turns around to continue with his original destination. The kicker is that he had his 4 to 6 year-old son in the front seat the whole time!!!!

So you never know who is the ticking time bomb out there.

[ti_boi]

. I easily avoid this crazy man and continue down the road. He decides to give up and turns around to continue with his original destination. The kicker is that he had his 4 to 6 year-old son in the front seat the whole time!!!!

So you never know who is the ticking time bomb out there.


It is great to see that he is teaching his son to proactively pursue his goals, in this case -- institutionalization.