Joachim supports Armstrong, says no organized doping at US teams

[Tony T]

Joachim supports Armstrong, says no organized doping at US teams (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/joachim-supports-armstrong-says-no-organized-doping-at-us-teams)
Benoit Joachim, who rode with Lance Armstrong from 1999 to 2005, has decried the American's lifetime ban and loss of results, describing him as a “great champion.” The Luxembourger also said there was no organized team doping programme at the United States Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams, with the decision to dope left up to the individual riders.

Joachim rode the Tour de France with Armstrong only twice. But pointed out: “I rode for nine years under the command of Johan Bruyneel, and I have not even been questioned by USADA investigators USADA. On this basis then, I doubt the seriousness of this investigation.”

[slidey]

Ahh, a luxembourger (pro-)cyclist...and we all know how sharp-witted they are!

Mods: We seriously need an emoticon for face palming. :help:

[Joachim]

I never said that!

[dancinkozmo]

....... Yawn

[Mark McM]

In Tyler Hamilton's book, 'The Secret Race', he describes there being an informal system of riders being on the 'A' team or the 'B' team; the riders on the 'A' team were provided drugs by the team (in the infamous white lunch bags) while the 'B' team members were not. Maybe Joachim Benoit never made the 'A' team and wasn't privy to the team supplied drug program?

In addition, organized team doping apparently concentrated mainly around the Tour de France (Armstrong's main target each year), and Benoit only rode the Tour twice (2000 & 2002). So again, he may not have had much opportunity to partake in the team organized doping, and may not have been privy to its details.

Finally, the team organized doping was said to have centered around Michele Ferrari's training programs, and Benoit admits that he did not have as much contact with Ferrari that he would have liked.

All in all, it sounds like Benoit would know less about the organized team doping than did many of the riders who testified for USADA, which may be why USADA did not interview him.

[thinpin]

I'm reminded of a terrier I once had.
When he got his teeth into a trouser cuff it would take an eternity to get him to let go.

[oliver1850]

My grandfather once got bitten by a squirrel that wouldn't let go. He had to drown it in the stock tank, then pry its jaws open with his pliers.

[nicrump]

i once bit down on a pork rib that was too tough. i wouldn't let go. they drowned me in a keg of beer and pried it out with a pedal wrench.

[Mr. Squirrel]

My grandfather once got bitten by a squirrel that wouldn't let go. He had to drown it in the stock tank, then pry its jaws open with his pliers.

dear mr. oliver, that sounds like my uncle tyson. when he got a hold of someones nut, he would not let go. nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

[Tony T]

He was also critical of the testimony provided by North American riders such as Levi Leipheimer, Tyler Hamilton and George Hincapie, calling their evidence “neither true nor false.” These were riders “who enjoyed cycling and didn't have a lot of money compared to Armstrong. They gained particular notoriety. They spoke when they were nearing retirement.” They should have spoken out earlier, he said. “If they had something to say, why not have done it ten years ago?”

[mosca]

I wonder why Joachim didn't speak up sooner. Obviously, he could have cleared up this whole mess a long time ago.

[Hindmost]

When I first scanned the article I thought he must be a moron. But then I reread it and thought about what he was saying and why he said it. Mark McM nicely summerized above what his perspective must have been.

I have to give him credit for his candor. Sure beats: "110%", or "one day at a time", "I'm bustin' my ass 8 hours a day."

His bitterness at not having profited as others did--and they having essentially gotten away with it--rings true.

[laupsi]

in statistics and in life there will always be outliers and outright liers..., oh, and hopeful suckers!

[Tony T]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Lance-Armstrong-Tweet.jpg

"Back in Austin and just layin' around" (http://www.news.com.au/news/lance-armstrong-posts-provocative-picture-on-twitter/story-fnejlub9-1226514807919)
Amstrong tweeted a picture of himself in his Austin home - unleashing dozens of comments for and against the Texan.
"Back in Austin and just layin' around," said Armstrong to accompany the picture of him lying on a sofa below the jerseys a month after the US doping authorities stripped him of his seven titles and wiped his career record.
Overnight, more than 100,000 subscribers to the social media site had seen the picture - but opinions posted to Twitter were diverse with some tweeters blasting the Texan as a cheat while others still maintain their faith in the cancer survivor.

[cfox]

His is the most honest response to this whole clusterfOck. He wished he had doped his a$$ with Ferrari off like the Levi, George, and Tyler. Those three are the dishonest ones; making hefty paychecks while juiced to the bone (for YEARS), and now feeling sooooo sooorrry for it all. B f'ing S. I really wish some more guys would have the balls to say "Yes, I doped cuz we all did and i don't feel bad about it. I made a nice living and it is what it is." If you think any of those guys feel otherwise, I feel badly for you.

[Tony T]

Those three are the dishonest ones; making hefty paychecks while juiced to the bone (for YEARS), and now feeling sooooo sooorrry for it all.
.

[dancinkozmo]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Lance-Armstrong-Tweet.jpg

"Back in Austin and just layin' around" (http://www.news.com.au/news/lance-armstrong-posts-provocative-picture-on-twitter/story-fnejlub9-1226514807919)

I dont get it...
Are you like LA's personal ball washer or something ?

[Tony T]

I dont get it...
Are you like LA's personal ball washer or something ?

Personal attacks? (on the internet, the refuge of the weak)

...if you're looking to "close the thread", just post a political comment.

[Vientomas]

are...

[dancinkozmo]

Personal attacks? (on the internet, the refuge of the weak)

...if you're looking to "close the thread", just post a political comment.


Sorry, i just read through a bunch of your posts, and given your borderline homo-erotic obsession with the man, and the fact that most of the 1%
probably can afford and indeed have personal ballwashers....i just connected the dots....please correct me if im mistaken...

[CunegoFan]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Lance-Armstrong-Tweet.jpg



"Rosebud....."

[slidey]

Why is the figment of imagination of an uncorroborated half-assed cyclist even a thread?

Btw, in case you didn't get it it's a rhetorical Q...so fight the urge to answer it since I'm as interested in this convo/thread as Dopestrong is in confessing.

The only news concerning Dopey that I could be interested in would be:
1. when he confessed (never), or
2. if he was being lynched by a particularly thoughtful group of people.

Personal attacks? (on the internet, the refuge of the weak)

...if you're looking to "close the thread", just post a political comment.

[dancinkozmo]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Lance-Armstrong-Tweet.jpg

"Back in Austin and just layin' around" (http://www.news.com.au/news/lance-armstrong-posts-provocative-picture-on-twitter/story-fnejlub9-1226514807919)


Wouldnt want to shine a uv light onthat sofa :eek:

[ultraman6970]

Wonder when those jerseys will be stolen... wait 20 more years and sells them at ebay, they will be the rarest of the rarest in 20 years.

[Elefantino]

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l84/gmmtwo/Lance-Armstrong-Tweet.jpg
Fixed it for you.

[Tony T]

.

[PQJ]

Your obsession with him, Tony, is a little, well, strange.

[Tony T]

...and yet you post to every (well, nearly every) thread about LA.
(anyway, I only linked a tweet, I'm not the one who reposted the picture 5 times)

[Grant McLean]

I really wish some more guys would have the balls to say "Yes, I doped cuz we all did and i don't feel bad about it. I made a nice living and it is what it is." If you think any of those guys feel otherwise, I feel badly for you.

I think many of the dopers have major regrets, and wish they made different choices.
It's pretty scary to think that people can commit a fraud like that and not
have any personal ethical issues about it, no matter how you wanna frame it,
every rider who doped knew it was wrong, that's why they hid it and denied it.
That sort of thing eats away at your soul, if you have one.

-g

[PQJ]

.

[dancinkozmo]

.

[oldpotatoe]

Personal attacks? (on the internet, the refuge of the weak)

...if you're looking to "close the thread", just post a political comment.

lance voted for romney.....

[weiwentg]

Joachim supports Armstrong, says no organized doping at US teams (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/joachim-supports-armstrong-says-no-organized-doping-at-us-teams)
Benoit Joachim, who rode with Lance Armstrong from 1999 to 2005, has decried the American's lifetime ban and loss of results, describing him as a “great champion.” The Luxembourger also said there was no organized team doping programme at the United States Postal Service and Discovery Channel teams, with the decision to dope left up to the individual riders.

Joachim rode the Tour de France with Armstrong only twice. But pointed out: “I rode for nine years under the command of Johan Bruyneel, and I have not even been questioned by USADA investigators USADA. On this basis then, I doubt the seriousness of this investigation.”


I haven't stopped laughing.

[MarleyMon]

re: Twit Pic
Is anyone else hearing "Glory Days" in their head?

[e-RICHIE]

re: Twit Pic
Is anyone else hearing "Glory Days" in their head?

More like Glory Daze atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool::cool:
:cool::cool::cool:
;):cool::cool:

[Elefantino]

Wonder if Joachim supports Livestrong now that Lance has bailed on it.

NEW YORK -- Lance Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France cycling winner stripped of his titles on charges he cheated, has resigned from the board of the Livestrong Foundation, the charity he began 15 years ago after testicular cancer nearly ended his career.

The move, coming 18 days after he stepped down as the group's chairman, is designed to further distance him from the Austin, Texas-based foundation as a way help it survive the fall from grace of one of the world's best-known athletes, officials said Sunday in announcing the move.

Armstrong's last day as a board member was Nov. 4, said Katherine McLane, a foundation spokeswoman. While the group's officials said they have sufficient reserves to overcome a contribution downturn, supporters said they were concerned the move may not be enough to overcome the damage already done.

Jeff Garvey, the group's new chairman, in an email Sunday. "We are deeply grateful to Lance for creating a cause that has served millions of cancer survivors and their families."

There is some evidence the cheating allegations may have already hurt the group. In an annual survey published last year, Livestrong was ranked 343rd among the top 400 charities in the Chronicle of Philanthropy's list. This year it fell out of the rankings, though it remains the top athlete-founded charity.

[e-RICHIE]

Wonder if Joachim supports Livestrong now that Lance has bailed on it.

He probably supports Lance awareness atmo.

[Vientomas]

I stole this from the Cycling News Forum:

[cdn_bacon]

I stole this from the Cycling News Forum:

awesome.

[54ny77]

creative, and %&$!! hilarious!

I stole this from the Cycling News Forum:

[1centaur]

I just love the way modern technology blends with old fashioned vitriol. Lance tweets a big FU and gets it back double in his face.

Every time somebody posts a picture, he has to worry what the opposition can do with Photoshop. Someday, that fact will prove politically pivotal.

[e-RICHIE]

I just love the way modern technology blends with old fashioned vitriol. Lance tweets a big FU and gets it back double in his face.

Every time somebody posts a picture, he has to worry what the opposition can do with Photoshop. Someday, that fact will prove politically pivotal.

Before the advent of photography, blackmail was a different game atmo.

ps

arrange disorder

:cool::cool::cool:
;););)
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[laupsi]

I stole this from the Cycling News Forum:

this is just lovely however the original is just as telling. LA, all alone, no wife, no kids, no family, no friends, just him trying to prove the ends justify the means only his deck of cards has run out. w/nothing left to play he's trying to send a message he's invincible and he needs no one. it has always been about him, no? this guy needs therapy!

[ultraman6970]

Somebody has to post that in LA tweeter or facebook as an answer to his picture :D

Genius!

[cfox]

I think many of the dopers have major regrets, and wish they made different choices.
It's pretty scary to think that people can commit a fraud like that and not
have any personal ethical issues about it, no matter how you wanna frame it,
every rider who doped knew it was wrong, that's why they hid it and denied it.
That sort of thing eats away at your soul, if you have one.

-g

Riders hid and denied it because they feared for their livelihood. Certainly it ate away at some of these guys, but I really believe most of them didn't lose too much sleep over it. Humans crave justification for so many of their actions, and there is no more powerful justification than knowing "everyone" is doing the same thing you are. Floyd, of all people, said something to the effect that if he had to re-live his career, he would do it (dope) all over again. Despite what I think, I sincerely hope I'm wrong and you are right.

[norcalbiker]

http://sportige.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Lance-Armstrong-Tweet.jpg

"Back in Austin and just layin' around" (http://www.news.com.au/news/lance-armstrong-posts-provocative-picture-on-twitter/story-fnejlub9-1226514807919)
Amstrong tweeted a picture of himself in his Austin home - unleashing dozens of comments for and against the Texan.
"Back in Austin and just layin' around," said Armstrong to accompany the picture of him lying on a sofa below the jerseys a month after the US doping authorities stripped him of his seven titles and wiped his career record.
Overnight, more than 100,000 subscribers to the social media site had seen the picture - but opinions posted to Twitter were diverse with some tweeters blasting the Texan as a cheat while others still maintain their faith in the cancer survivor.

HE DOPED!
HE PEDALED!
HE WON!

I really don't think he has any regret of what he did.

If he did not dope, do you think will be talking about Jan Ullrich, Ivan Basso, etc...? I don't think so.
Just look at Alberto Contador for example. He was stripped with his 2010 TDF titles but not his 2007 and 2009. Any idea? Am I to believe that he doped on 2010 TDF but not 2007 and 2009? Just curious.

[Tony T]

Just look at Alberto Contador for example. He was stripped with his 2010 TDF titles but not his 2007 and 2009. Any idea? Am I to believe that he doped on 2010 TDF but not 2007 and 2009? Just curious.

Contador denies that he used PED's in 2010.

[slidey]

I firmly believe that Contador didn't dope with Clenbuterol, the trace amount that was found in his blood was in such miniscule amounts it could've hardly been enhancing let alone performance enhancing. More -> www.sportsscientists.com/2010/09/contador-tests-positive.html

Beyond that, given what we know today it's very hard to say who's clean or not. In other words, he might not have doped with Clenbuterol but he certainly could've resorted to various other means which are much more performance enhancing and still come out to seem clean.


Just look at Alberto Contador for example. He was stripped with his 2010 TDF titles but not his 2007 and 2009. Any idea? Am I to believe that he doped on 2010 TDF but not 2007 and 2009? Just curious.

[jimcav]

I firmly believe that Contador didn't dope with Clenbuterol, the trace amount that was found in his blood was in such miniscule amounts it could've hardly been enhancing let alone performance enhancing. More -> www.sportsscientists.com/2010/09/contador-tests-positive.html

Beyond that, given what we know today it's very hard to say who's clean or not. In other words, he might not have doped with Clenbuterol but he certainly could've resorted to various other means which are much more performance enhancing and still come out to seem clean.

equally likely is he blood doped with a bag of his own blood from a time when he WAS using Clen. They banked the blood thinking it was past the "glow time" for Clen, but there was still some there, and then he gets it infused and it tests positive--if there was an approved plasticizer test, then we'd know...
I won't hold my breath waiting for any pro cyclist to admit they doped, until they are outed/caught and the reports/evidence are really damning they just keep denying

[Vientomas]

equally likely is he blood doped with a bag of his own blood from a time when he WAS using Clen. They banked the blood thinking it was past the "glow time" for Clen, but there was still some there, and then he gets it infused and it tests positive--if there was an approved plasticizer test, then we'd know...
I won't hold my breath waiting for any pro cyclist to admit they doped, until they are outed/caught and the reports/evidence are really damning they just keep denying

I think this is the same situation for Landis except it was testosterone.

[slidey]

This definitely seems feasible.

EDIT: I see you caught my initial slip-up...I meant to say Contador almost surely didn't dope with Clenbuterol the time he was caught.
equally likely is he blood doped with a bag of his own blood from a time when he WAS using Clen. They banked the blood thinking it was past the "glow time" for Clen, but there was still some there, and then he gets it infused and it tests positive--if there was an approved plasticizer test, then we'd know...

I'm with you on this...no desire to become asphyxiated.
I won't hold my breath waiting for any pro cyclist to admit they doped, until they are outed/caught and the reports/evidence are really damning they just keep denying

[cfox]

equally likely is he blood doped with a bag of his own blood from a time when he WAS using Clen. They banked the blood thinking it was past the "glow time" for Clen, but there was still some there, and then he gets it infused and it tests positive--if there was an approved plasticizer test, then we'd know...


called a "ghost positive", along with "glow time" one of the many lovely terms I learned during this whole debacle

[Tony T]

I firmly believe that Contador didn't dope with Clenbuterol, the trace amount that was found in his blood was in such miniscule amounts it could've hardly been enhancing let alone performance enhancing.


Also, Contador said that he was clean. :rolleyes:


Beyond that, given what we know today it's very hard to say who's clean or not. In other words, he might not have doped with Clenbuterol but he certainly could've resorted to various other means which are much more performance enhancing and still come out to seem clean.

Yes