Steel choice for my first custom frame / general advice / me hashing my thoughts out

[4Rings6Stars]

I'm planning to have my first custom frame built this winter (Tom Stevens - Spin Arts), and I'm trying to decide what steel to go with. The frame will be lugged. I'm sure when I talk to the builder about what type of riding I'll be doing, he will tell me the pros and cons of each steel option and walk me through it, but I want to be educated before I make a decision.

What I already have:
- I have an 853 IF Planet X that I currently use for road/gravel/D2R2 and I love it, but I find myself being a little cautious with it. I also wish it had discs and a lower BB...
- I also have a Soma Double Cross Disc (Tange Prestige) that I commute on every day and used for some light (2 day) touring. It's a fine bike, but built for commuting with racks, fenders and lights it's a bit of a tank.
- Sunday/nice weather/nice paved roads (I don't do these rides often) is on an MX Leader. I've tried to take it off road a few times and it's no fun.

What I want the custom frame to be / to do:
monstercross/gravel road/D2R2/commute

I basically want something like my Planet X but with a slightly lower BB, ability to take disc brakes, 700x35+ tires. I also want it to be strong/durable/ rugged. I will probably do some cross races on it but only for fun. It will see some pavement, but primarily rough dirt roads and maybe some single track, but nothing too technical. Build will probably be Campy 10 on handbuilts.

I have never had a professional fitting. I have very short legs for my height so have been having a hard time fitting comfortably on stock bikes--this is the main reason I want to try a custom. This builder will do a comprehensive fitting, he is local, and his prices are reasonable. I am leaning towards 4130 on this since it is so much cheaper and this being my first custom, I'm thinking there is a good chance after a few years I will want to upgrade / try something new anyway. I think for $750 (frame and fork) it is a good entry into the world of custom and an inexpensive learning experience. However, if the consensus is that any 4130 frame, even a custom one, will ride like a Surly Cross Check (had one, didn't like it)...I could be persuaded into something else but budget is pretty tight so I might have to wait another year to save up the coin... fresh out of college with pile of loans, wedding next summer, only grocery store in walking distance is a Food Whole = currently pretty broke.


Options: all lugged steel, includes fork, fitting, one color paint
4130 CR-MO Steel - $750.00
Heat Treated CR-MO - $1200.00
Air Hardened Heat Treated - $1600.00
Ultra Light Weight (S3 Tubeset) - $2100.00

[Mark McM]

I didn't think True Temper S3 was particularly suited for lugged construction due to its shaping. Not only are some of the tubes ovalized at the ends, but the top tube is tear-drop shaped at both ends. Not that lugs couldn't be made, but they would have to by highly customized. Since the alloy is optimized for TIG welding, it seems most builders would use TIG instead of lugs with S3.


(oh yeah - in interest of full disclosure, I do own and ride a TIG welded True Temper S3 frame, and it is an excellent bike.)

[rugbysecondrow]

Check out my Bedford Sport Tourer in my signature below. He has made quite a few of these fat tired bikes and I love mine. I have ridden plenty of paved, offroad, dirt pack and crushed rock and it is great. If I road cross, I would take it there as well with full confidence (taking off fenders of course). He has made lugged versions of these bikes, although I would add that lugged bikes cost more and a bike like this might get more abuse than a normal whip, so you might want to think if that is worth it to you or not.

Cheers,

Paul

[4Rings6Stars]

I didn't think True Temper S3 was particularly suited for lugged construction due to its shaping. Not only are some of the tubes ovalized at the ends, but the top tube is tear-drop shaped at both ends. Not that lugs couldn't be made, but they would have to by highly customized. Since the alloy is optimized for TIG welding, it seems most builders would use TIG instead of lugs with S3.


(oh yeah - in interest of full disclosure, I do own and ride a TIG welded True Temper S3 frame, and it is an excellent bike.)

I'm not sure - I think I remember reading that he only does lugged, but maybe for those tubesets that aren't suited for it he does tig?

[David Kirk]

I fully realize that this could be taken as snarky but I certainly don't mean it to be - that said - ask the builder what he recommends and he he doesn't have strong well formed opinions based on real experience it's time to go to the next builder on your list.

I know builders say this all the time and it may sound like a cop-out of sorts but it's the builder's job to know what is best and (this is a HUGE 'and') be able to explain why it's best.

Have fun with the process - it really can be a ball.

dave

[Bob Ross]

ask the builder what he recommends

Came in to post this ^^^

Personally I think it carries a lot more weight coming from a guy like Dave...but I suppose I can understand someone else thinking it carries more weight coming from an end-user rather than a builder, so I'm here to spread the +1s all over that statement.

Choose a custom frame based on the builder whose work/attitude/vision best resonates with you...then let the builder worry about how best to accomodate your needs within that work/attitude/vision.

[Kirk007]

Dave is a smart guy, listen to him.

Having just said that, I wouldn't dismiss the less expensive pipes out of fear that it will ride like a Surly. I wanted a budget bike of your description and picked up a reasonably priced frame made in Taiwan from "custom drawn double butted 4130 steel" frame (Singular Gryphon); and I am delighted by how it rides. I'm sure the geometry, the parts chosen, etc. etc. make a bigger difference that what steel was chosen in how it performs.

It's not a Kirk or a Pegoretti, but for two hours of leaving the house and thrashing around the neighborhood tracks and broken roads (now living in a very urban setting); or if I end up commuting, which would be through a very industrial area, it is just the tool for the job at hand. It is fun, but not precious. If necessary it can be ridden hard and put away wet without much more than a tinge of guilt.

[4Rings6Stars]

While I greatly appreciate the comments about having the builder tell me what is the best tubing for my riding, I sort of already know that is ideally what I would be doing. What I want to know here are some other opinions... The builder has a good rep and sounds very practical and down to earth. He says that most of the bikes he builds are from the 'air hardened, heat treated steel', but after a fitting and in person discussion, we will work on the details for my frame.

I'm basically thinking, that since this is my first fitting and first frame and funds are tight, I am going to push for using 4130. What I was hoping to hear is opinions on this: will it be worthwhile to have this frame built from 4130 as a way to get myself a custom, made to order frame + fork + paint for under $1K...or is the bike going to ride like a log.

My thought is, a quality fitting will cost me $100-200+ on its own. Getting this frameset for ~$800 will be a fun and inexpensive learning experience and possibly whet my appetite for getting something fancier down the road when I can afford it.

[4Rings6Stars]

Dave is a smart guy, listen to him.

Having just said that, I wouldn't dismiss the less expensive pipes out of fear that it will ride like a Surly. I wanted a budget bike of your description and picked up a reasonably priced frame made in Taiwan from "custom drawn double butted 4130 steel" frame (Singular Gryphon); and I am delighted by how it rides. I'm sure the geometry, the parts chosen, etc. etc. make a bigger difference that what steel was chosen in how it performs.

It's not a Kirk or a Pegoretti, but for two hours of leaving the house and thrashing around the neighborhood tracks and broken roads (now living in a very urban setting); or if I end up commuting, which would be through a very industrial area, it is just the tool for the job at hand. It is fun, but not precious. If necessary it can be ridden hard and put away wet without much more than a tinge of guilt.

Thanks for this post, it is very helpful and sort of echoes what I was hoping to use this bike for, + throwing on some fatties and thrashing around in the mud and woods.

[nighthawk]

I didn't think True Temper S3 was particularly suited for lugged construction due to its shaping. Not only are some of the tubes ovalized at the ends, but the top tube is tear-drop shaped at both ends. Not that lugs couldn't be made, but they would have to by highly customized. Since the alloy is optimized for TIG welding, it seems most builders would use TIG instead of lugs with S3.


(oh yeah - in interest of full disclosure, I do own and ride a TIG welded True Temper S3 frame, and it is an excellent bike.)

I was just looking at a friends True Temper S3 cross bike.. and Mark is correct... the tubing wouldn't work well with lugs (see pic for reference: tear drop shaped top tube, tapered and ovalized down tube, i think?), unless highly customized. I'll also ad that the tubes are extremely thin and I don't think it would be ideal for the type of riding you want to do.

http://www.circleacycles.com/chris/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/IMG_6924.jpg

[Kirk007]

... sort of echoes what I was hoping to use this bike for, + throwing on some fatties and thrashing around in the mud and woods.

Yes it works for that as well.

[shovelhd]

I've raced with Tom back in the 1980's and for the last two years. I had no idea he built frames.

I feel the same way that you do about the Cross Check. It rides like a brick. I think that is due to the geometry, not the material. There's no reason why a steel CX bike shouldn't ride comfortably.

[David Kirk]

I agree with much of the above - the point being that the most expensive and fancy tubes are not always called for any many times have little benefit. The builder should know that and be able to tell you that and why. There is no one size fits all and that is a very good thing.

dave

[EnginCycle]

First there is actually a S3 round tubeset but it is hard to get all the time.

This is the very reason I changed my menu to be one price and that is that. No upgrade for this or that option. It confuses the situation. The rider will get the bike that is needed to be as strong as possible (i.e. reduce odds of a failure) and have the ride quality we (the customer and I) are after. I never build a bike with a certain tubeset and also do not allow the customer to choose what tubes are used.

So much of all this is a non issue anyway. Steel is all very similar and my goal is to make it have the butt lengths that are needed and depending on the rider that determines the O.D. of the tube and the wall thickness that is used. As the tubes get larger and thinner they tend to get more and more heat treated and closer to the super steels.

Not sure if that helped answer any questions?

-Drew

[e-RICHIE]

Tom knows what he's doing and what goes where. Why not say "___ cm is my saddle height,
and my reach to the bars is ___ cm" and leave it at that atmo. He'll already know what the
proposed use is.

[Joachim]

As a side note. This http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=116978&highlight=anderson+lugged+steel was built with a S3 top tube, S3 seat tube and S3 seat stays. Its lugged and round, so probably the S3 Drew was talking about.

[4Rings6Stars]

Tom knows what he's doing and what goes where. Why not say "___ cm is my saddle height,
and my reach to the bars is ___ cm" and leave it at that atmo. He'll already know what the
proposed use is.

My biggest motivation for getting a proper fitting is that I am having some issues (knee pain on longer rides, occasional numbness in my forearms) that I haven't been able to resolve by reading fitting advice online and moving my contact points around. I thought by getting him to build me an inexpensive frame, I could get myself properly fit to a bike and have fun getting a custom while I'm at it...

I grew up basically on the edge of Warwick and a lot of my offroad riding has been in the state forests around there (actually got lost for the better part of a day and ended up in New Hampshire last year riding in those woods) Believe me, if I had the time/means I would be dropping off a deposit with you and not messing around with $800 frames and 4130 tubing...

[Smiley]

Tom knows what he's doing and what goes where. Why not say "___ cm is my saddle height,
and my reach to the bars is ___ cm" and leave it at that atmo. He'll already know what the
proposed use is.

In all my years in doing this fitting biz I have not had a client dictate the tubeset. Maybe I have not run into you yet but Like with e_Richie says above is why you hire your frame builder, they know the magic formula to put in the mix to make the bike ride to what spec's you have dictated.

[e-RICHIE]

Ya i get that. If he knows what you have, and spends 2-3 minutes processing the info, the result will be correct atmo. Don't read about fitting advice online. The conversations will be circular at best. Tommy's intuition and experience comes with the sale, so when you commit to the order the process will be beyond simple, as it should be.

Where on the edge of town did you reside?


My biggest motivation for getting a proper fitting is that I am having some issues (knee pain on longer rides, occasional numbness in my forearms) that I haven't been able to resolve by reading fitting advice online and moving my contact points around. I thought by getting him to build me an inexpensive frame, I could get myself properly fit to a bike and have fun getting a custom while I'm at it...

I grew up basically on the edge of Warwick and a lot of my offroad riding has been in the state forests around there (actually got lost for the better part of a day and ended up in New Hampshire last year riding in those woods) Believe me, if I had the time/means I would be dropping off a deposit with you and not messing around with $800 frames and 4130 tubing...

[4Rings6Stars]

Ya i get that. If he knows what you have, and spends 2-3 minutes processing the info, the result will be correct atmo. Don't read about fitting advice online. The conversations will be circular at best. Tommy's intuition and experience comes with the sale, so when you commit to the order the process will be beyond simple, as it should be.

Where on the edge of town did you reside?

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it. Sounds like I should put my trust in the man with the torch and not worry so much about the list of tubing prices on his website...

I grew up in Phillipston and still spend lots of time there visiting my parents. Also have a bunch of family/friends in Athol and Royalston. It's where I do most of my riding. I hate riding in the city / immediate 'burbs and get that out of my system during the week commuting. There is some fun singletrack in Royalston/Tully but too rocky. The dirt roads are where I have the most fun, and there is no shortage out there.

[e-RICHIE]

In all my years in doing this fitting biz I have not had a client dictate the tubeset. Maybe I have not run into you yet but Like with e_Richie says above is why you hire your frame builder, they know the magic formula to put in the mix to make the bike ride to what spec's you have dictated.

See/read Drew's reply pasted in. It may not be what the OP asked about, but it's a most poignant text with regard to these types of threads.

This is the very reason I changed my menu to be one price and that is that. No upgrade for this or that option. It confuses the situation.
Keep the conversations short, and let Tom or the commissioned effbuilder take the lead.

[slidey]

Given you are keen on exercising financial prudence, I'm not sure as to the logic of ordering a custom frame as a proposed solution to solving fit issues. If you have fit issues, then get fit by a reputable fitter - at least, that way you can logically eliminate stock bikes from your list from future consideration.

But if you're bent on going custom then go custom all the way...tell the builder what you want from the bike, and let their experience and justifications kick in.

I'm planning to have my first custom frame built this winter (Tom Stevens - Spin Arts), and I'm trying to decide what steel to go with. The frame will be lugged. I'm sure when I talk to the builder about what type of riding I'll be doing, he will tell me the pros and cons of each steel option and walk me through it, but I want to be educated before I make a decision.

What I already have:
- I have an 853 IF Planet X that I currently use for road/gravel/D2R2 and I love it, but I find myself being a little cautious with it. I also wish it had discs and a lower BB...
- I also have a Soma Double Cross Disc (Tange Prestige) that I commute on every day and used for some light (2 day) touring. It's a fine bike, but built for commuting with racks, fenders and lights it's a bit of a tank.
- Sunday/nice weather/nice paved roads (I don't do these rides often) is on an MX Leader. I've tried to take it off road a few times and it's no fun.

What I want the custom frame to be / to do:
monstercross/gravel road/D2R2/commute

I basically want something like my Planet X but with a slightly lower BB, ability to take disc brakes, 700x35+ tires. I also want it to be strong/durable/ rugged. I will probably do some cross races on it but only for fun. It will see some pavement, but primarily rough dirt roads and maybe some single track, but nothing too technical. Build will probably be Campy 10 on handbuilts.

I have never had a professional fitting. I have very short legs for my height so have been having a hard time fitting comfortably on stock bikes--this is the main reason I want to try a custom. This builder will do a comprehensive fitting, he is local, and his prices are reasonable. I am leaning towards 4130 on this since it is so much cheaper and this being my first custom, I'm thinking there is a good chance after a few years I will want to upgrade / try something new anyway. I think for $750 (frame and fork) it is a good entry into the world of custom and an inexpensive learning experience. However, if the consensus is that any 4130 frame, even a custom one, will ride like a Surly Cross Check (had one, didn't like it)...I could be persuaded into something else but budget is pretty tight so I might have to wait another year to save up the coin... fresh out of college with pile of loans, wedding next summer, only grocery store in walking distance is a Food Whole = currently pretty broke.


Options: all lugged steel, includes fork, fitting, one color paint
4130 CR-MO Steel - $750.00
Heat Treated CR-MO - $1200.00
Air Hardened Heat Treated - $1600.00
Ultra Light Weight (S3 Tubeset) - $2100.00

[David Kirk]

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it. Sounds like I should put my trust in the man with the torch and not worry so much about the list of tubing prices on his website...

I grew up in Phillipston and still spend lots of time there visiting my parents. Also have a bunch of family/friends in Athol and Royalston. It's where I do most of my riding. I hate riding in the city / immediate 'burbs and get that out of my system during the week commuting. There is some fun singletrack in Royalston/Tully but too rocky. The dirt roads are where I have the most fun, and there is no shortage out there.

Cool.

dave

[Chance]

In all my years in doing this fitting biz I have not had a client dictate the tubeset. Maybe I have not run into you yet but Like with e_Richie says above is why you hire your frame builder, they know the magic formula to put in the mix to make the bike ride to what spec's you have dictated.

In fairness to him, he isn’t dictating anything. From his initial post it sounds like he’s been given various tube options at different price points and he has to decide how much he wants to spend. That’s choosing and not dictating. Whether to meet a budget or any other reason. Being well informed on the subject in advance is a good thing. Information can't hurt. If nothing else he'll be able to ask better questions.

Some guys here make it sound like he should just go along with whatever the builder says as if we were to walk into a restaurant and let the chef decide for us what we should want to eat. And regardless of the cost. That line of thought makes no sense whatsoever to me. Yeah, most chefs know a lot more about food than me but he’s not the one that will consume/enjoy the meal. Or pay for it.

It may very well be my background speaking here but the builder is working for the buyer and not the other way around. In my opinion the buyer actually has every right to "dictate" anything he wants regardless of how crazy it may be. Likewise the builder has the right to tell him to take a hike if not in his best interest to build a wacked frameset. But the thought that the buyer should relinquish any and or all control in choosing tubes or anything else is nuts in my opinion. Particularly if it affects costs.

It's beating a dead horse but it often seems like many here act like the builder is doing the buyer a favor for accepting his business.

[Chance]

I'm planning to have my first custom frame built this winter (Tom Stevens - Spin Arts), and I'm trying to decide what steel to go with. The frame will be lugged. I'm sure when I talk to the builder about what type of riding I'll be doing, he will tell me the pros and cons of each steel option and walk me through it, but I want to be educated before I make a decision.


Very smart in my opinion. Any (correct) knowledge is rarely a problem.

[shovelhd]

I grew up in Phillipston and still spend lots of time there visiting my parents. Also have a bunch of family/friends in Athol and Royalston. It's where I do most of my riding. I hate riding in the city / immediate 'burbs and get that out of my system during the week commuting. There is some fun singletrack in Royalston/Tully but too rocky. The dirt roads are where I have the most fun, and there is no shortage out there.

Interesting. My mother in law lives in Otter River. I ride up there a few times a year. My father in law grew up in South Royalston. There are some pretty roads around Queen Lake. While looking for our current house, we spent a year in Athol in a rented condo near the airport.

Tom and I raced on the same team for four years in the 1980's. These days, we race quite a few Masters races in the same field.

Great guy. Best of luck to you.

[John H.]

Gotta be pretty cheap tubes for $750 total pice for a frame. Truly most of the cost is in labor and paint.
I would worry that the cheap tubeset would ride more like a cheap frame- some, surly, etc.
I suggest going with the tubeset that the builder favors for your size and use. He will be more stoked about building with that tubeset (or tubesets) than making you a bike out of cheap tubing. Stoked builder=better outcome.

[slidey]

I agree with you that this scenario makes absolutely no sense...but I interpreted the OP's initial post rather differently, as it'd seem a few others did. But you're spot on...learn a ton on your own, evaluate the builder's opinions to either entrust the bike building to them or not.

However truth be told, what stared me in the face was the rationale behind a custom bike to resolve fit issues, but that's none of my worry. :cool:

It's beating a dead horse but it often seems like many here act like the builder is doing the buyer a favor for accepting his business.

[markie]

Ok, now you have lots of good replies and information, may I ask a stupid and possibly annoying question? (Well I am going to anyway).

I really wonder why you did not like your Surly? Is there any possibility it was just the perceived cheapness and lack of cachet?

I sold a cross check and got a IF planet X and a Rivendell quickbeam and the surly to me was just as good as those other two bikes. But i sold the Surly because I thought the other bikes would be better and well, they are just bikes.

[e-RICHIE]

Interesting. My mother in law lives in Otter River. I ride up there a few times a year. My father in law grew up in South Royalston. There are some pretty roads around Queen Lake. While looking for our current house, we spent a year in Athol in a rented condo near the airport.

Tom and I raced on the same team for four years in the 1980's. These days, we race quite a few Masters races in the same field.

Great guy. Best of luck to you.

Hey - Tom and Peter raced with us for as nearly as long during the same period.
What group were you involved with?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1425/749061673_2654451245.jpg

[Bob Ross]

What I was hoping to hear is opinions on this: will it be worthwhile to have this frame built from 4130 as a way to get myself a custom, made to order frame + fork + paint for under $1K...or is the bike going to ride like a log.

Well, fwiw, my commuter/winter/foul weather/beater bike is an old 1986 Japanese Bridgestone made from 4130, that neither fits me as well as my custom, made-to-measure bike nor has nearly the same level of components on it

...but it's not really any less fun to ride. Okay, maybe it's a little less fun to ride. But it definitely doesn't ride like a log. I'm convinced that if that bike fit me better, had more comfortable levers/hoods, had a modern 10-speed drivetrain and nicer wheels, I would ride it nearly all the time. The only "penalty" from the 4130 would be the weight...which, as already mentioned, doesn't seem to impact the fun too dramatically.

[dancinkozmo]

Ok, now you have lots of good replies and information, may I ask a stupid and possibly annoying question? (Well I am going to anyway).

I really wonder why you did not like your Surly? Is there any possibility it was just the perceived cheapness and lack of cachet?

I sold a cross check and got a IF planet X and a Rivendell quickbeam and the surly to me was just as good as those other two bikes. But i sold the Surly because I thought the other bikes would be better and well, they are just bikes.

I agree with this guy...get a surly....the x check rides just fine imho...Yeah it weighs a ton...on dirt rds who cares ?
I had a pacer, and a hampsten team pro at one point...very similar geo , other than the crappier paint and welds on the surly i really couldnt feel much of a difference in ride

Peel the decals off a x check and replace them with "Confente" and bobs your uncle ! :0)

[4Rings6Stars]

I agree with this guy...get a surly....the x check rides great imho...maybe peeling off the decals and replacing them with "Confete" would help

I had a cross check and currently have a LHT (actually ill be shipping that to its new owner shortly). I was not impressed with the CC at all... Not sure what caused it, but it just felt dead. That sort if why I started this thread, to see if a custom built from 4130 would feel like a CC. I don't care about what the label says, i am actually going to try to get my eventual custom bike sans decals or at least minimal. My CC just wasn't fun to ride, felt like a tool and not a toy.



What's wrong with having a reputable fitter fit me then design and build a frame or me in order to resolve a fit issue? Isn't that kind of the purpose?

It's not just that though... I also WANT a new bike. I'm sure I could buy a used frame and get a fitting done and come out slightly less than $800, but I'm excited about the process of having a bike built to my specs, picking the paint scheme, building from scratch with exactly the parts I want... Every one of us could get by just fine with only 1 or 2 bikes, but where is the fun in that?

Thanks again for all the responses.

[slidey]

Well, for one you'll not really answer the question if stock bikes are for you or not. Let me explain in terms of a snooker analogy:

You have the option of potting two red balls on either side of the table, both relatively easy but only one of them plays to your natural side (left hand v/s right hand, lets safely assume you're no Ronnie O'Sullivan) making this more desirable to pot. However if you pot this ball it leaves you snookered on the next colour.

What's wrong with having a reputable fitter fit me then design and build a frame or me in order to resolve a fit issue? Isn't that kind of the purpose?

Trust me, I hear you loud and clear on this one. Heck, this is the main reason why RS is a bike I dream of...sigh :cool: However, on reading your initial post I got the impression that you were on a very tight self-imposed financial leash...but, if you're not, then no-holds barred customising is the way to go!

It's not just that though... I also WANT a new bike. I'm sure I could buy a used frame and get a fitting done and come out slightly less than $800, but I'm excited about the process of having a bike built to my specs, picking the paint scheme, building from scratch with exactly the parts I want... Every one of us could get by just fine with only 1 or 2 bikes, but where is the fun in that?
Thanks again for all the responses.

[shovelhd]

Hey - Tom and Peter raced with us for as nearly as long during the same period.
What group were you involved with?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1425/749061673_2654451245.jpg

That's him in the middle of the back row.

Mass Bay Road Club, Cat2. Paul Curley, Mark and Frank McCormack, Frank Jennings, Tom, Dwight, myself and a few others.

I race Masters up to M55+ and P/1/2 these days. There are some strong Sachs Masters in the Northeast.

[4Rings6Stars]

Well, for one you'll not really answer the question if stock bikes are for you or not. Let me explain in terms of a snooker analogy:

You have the option of potting two red balls on either side of the table, both relatively easy but only one of them plays to your natural side (left hand v/s right hand, lets safely assume you're no Ronnie O'Sullivan) making this more desirable to pot. However if you pot this ball it leaves you snookered on the next colour.

I'm just going to smile and nod and pretend I follow...



Trust me, I hear you loud and clear on this one. Heck, this is the main reason why RS is a bike I dream of...sigh :cool: However, on reading your initial post I got the impression that you were on a very tight self-imposed financial leash...but, if you're not, then no-holds barred customising is the way to go!

I don't really have any extra money to spend on a custom frame, but I decided to sell a few current bikes I don't ride to fund it, hence the $ limit.
Now if I were to sell the IF and the Merckx MX Leader....

[markie]

What's wrong with having a reputable fitter fit me then design and build a frame or me in order to resolve a fit issue? Isn't that kind of the purpose?



Thanks for the reply (and not getting annoyed at the impertinent question). I do not think you have to justify your sentence above at all. It sounds more like the cycling holy grail.

I am sure you will love your new bike. (Or being cynical you will learn a bunch about getting a custom bike and what you do and do not like in a frame). Either way it is part of the journey. Thanks.:)

Please keep us posted on your choices and progress.

[slidey]

Dude...don't sell the MX Leader!! :eek:

Unless, you are a size 54 and do it at a time when I'm feeling affluent enough ;)


Now if I were to sell the IF and the Merckx MX Leader....

[4Rings6Stars]

Dude...don't sell the MX Leader!! :eek:

Unless, you are a size 54 and do it at a time when I'm feeling affluent enough ;)

I think Merckx lists it as a 53, but the TT is 54.3...

I actually had it listed a while back simultaneously with my Merckx Titanium AX. Plan was to list both and let the first one that sold go then pull the other off the market...I'm glad the MXL is still here, but even though I didn't ride it much, I miss the AX.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=115870

[spiderman]

Hey - Tom and Peter raced with us for as nearly as long during the same period.
What group were you involved with?

http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1425/749061673_2654451245.jpg

Nice post
Great story
Thanks for sharing this !