Pronto & Fondo

[FootWorksCycles]

I've been waiting impatiently for Serotta to finally announce the Pronto and Fondo bikes to the public. They told us dealers about it over a week ago and I am wondering why it took so long for them to let the cat out of the bag! Many of the comments told to the new CEO could have been avoided. Lots of members were clamoring for a more affordable bike, and it was already in the works.

Anyways, what they told us dealers is that they are $4295 with full Ultegra build. No other specifics, but I would bet it the typical T&T Ultegra package.

I am looking forward to being able to offer this bike to my customers. It opens a whole new market to Serotta.

[thwart]

Now they just need to do the same price with Campy Athena. :p

Seriously though, I'm happy to see Serotta back in the game, so to speak.

[oldpotatoe]

I've been waiting impatiently for Serotta to finally announce the Pronto and Fondo bikes to the public. They told us dealers about it over a week ago and I am wondering why it took so long for them to let the cat out of the bag! Many of the comments told to the new CEO could have been avoided. Lots of members were clamoring for a more affordable bike, and it was already in the works.

Anyways, what they told us dealers is that they are $4295 with full Ultegra build. No other specifics, but I would bet it the typical T&T Ultegra package.

I am looking forward to being able to offer this bike to my customers. It opens a whole new market to Serotta.

Do you really only sell Serotta and Kestrel?

If so I bet you are thrilled at the re-emergence of serotta.

[93legendti]

I've been waiting impatiently for Serotta to finally announce the Pronto and Fondo bikes to the public. They told us dealers about it over a week ago and I am wondering why it took so long for them to let the cat out of the bag! Many of the comments told to the new CEO could have been avoided. Lots of members were clamoring for a more affordable bike, and it was already in the works.

Anyways, what they told us dealers is that they are $4295 with full Ultegra build. No other specifics, but I would bet it the typical T&T Ultegra package.

I am looking forward to being able to offer this bike to my customers. It opens a whole new market to Serotta.

I am looking forward to hearing more about the frame sets. This seems like a great price for a Serotta bike built with Ultegra.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . round out that T&T Ultegra kit? Wheels, saddle, seatpost, etc? . . .

BBD

[Nooch]

. . . round out that T&T Ultegra kit? Wheels, saddle, seatpost, etc? . . .

BBD

Wheels are going to be ultegra.

Per Bill in PM (I hope I'm not unveiling anything too crazy here) the T&T Force set up with Ksyrium elites would run $4695..

I am very, very strongly considering one -- a pronto, that is..

[BumbleBeeDave]

You're at a dealer with a pretty good selection . . . do you sell anything else comparable to this bike that is at the same price point? What basis do you have for comparison with a customer? How much more competitive will this end up being than what you had in your store from Serotta before?

In other words, how much lower is this $4295 price than what you were able to offer from Serotta to a customer previous to this? $1000? $1500? . .

BBD

[Nooch]

that's a rough question for me to answer, BBD, simply because I haven't seen the pronto nor have I ridden much at that end of the spectrum. But we have a slew of $4-5k offerings from trek, specialized, focus, and cannondale that I believe, to the right customer, one of these would appeal to. A rider on a high end roubaix, for instance, might consider the fondo.. A Roubaix SL4 with Ultegra is $3800... for $500 more, I think a customer might take to the american craftsmanship involved in the serotta.. It's no longer the difference in getting a serotta with base componenets vs. the roubaix and adding zipps...

[oldpotatoe]

I am looking forward to hearing more about the frame sets. This seems like a great price for a Serotta bike built with Ultegra.

Steel?

[Nooch]

Steel?

Ti.

[AngryScientist]

these are going to be nice at an attainable pricepoint.

what that translates to for a dude like me is that when they start to come available on the used market they will be very affordable:)

[Climb01742]

On a number of fronts, these two bikes are steps in the right direction. And serotta is to be applauded.

But something baffles me. To compete against other companies' carbon offerings, serotta brings out two ti bikes? If I were trying to compete against Starbucks and dunkin donuts, I'd offer coffee, not tea. If the overwhelming percentage of buyers want coffee (and carbon), how is tea (and ti) going to appeal to them without a robust, long-term marketing and educational campaign to sell the benefits of something different?

I hope I'm wrong but from a marketing and segmentation POV, this may be a good idea that's also the wrong idea. Are others reading the market differently?

[oldpotatoe]

Ti.

Available as a frame/fork?

[DRZRM]

. . . round out that T&T Ultegra kit? Wheels, saddle, seatpost, etc? . . .

BBD

General info is here, not sure if this is exactly what you will get on the new frames though. Looks like Ultegra group and wheels, 3T cockpit, Cane Creek HS, and a SI saddle.

Tried & True build kit (http://serotta.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/121030-TT-Kits.pdf)

[fatallightning]

On a number of fronts, these two bikes are steps in the right direction. And serotta is to be applauded.

But something baffles me. To compete against other companies' carbon offerings, serotta brings out two ti bikes? If I were trying to compete against Starbucks and dunkin donuts, I'd offer coffee, not tea. If the overwhelming percentage of buyers want coffee (and carbon), how is tea (and ti) going to appeal to them without a robust, long-term marketing and educational campaign to sell the benefits of something different?

I hope I'm wrong but from a marketing and segmentation POV, this may be a good idea that's also the wrong idea. Are others reading the market differently?
I think Ti is back on the upswing. I also Serotta has realized where, in reality, the niche and sphere they actually reside. They do not have much hope of trying to out carbon the mass production carbon bikes, nor really cut into the boutique carbon like Parlee, Crumpton, Calfee etc. So being different is really what they need to stand on.

[FlashUNC]

I think Ti is back on the upswing. I also Serotta has realized where, in reality, the niche and sphere they actually reside. They do not have much hope of trying to out carbon the mass production carbon bikes, nor really cut into the boutique carbon like Parlee, Crumpton, Calfee etc. So being different is really what they need to stand on.

+1 with this. I'm seeing more Moots and other Ti offerings at local group rides. One local shop that's a Moots dealer seems to be selling more of them too.

Ebbs and flows.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but if Watkins came on board and decided they needed to do something quick--which it seems they do--then Ti may have offered the quickest startup, engineering wise, given their in-house resources.

But I agree with you totally on the coffee/tea comparison. I would bet dollars to donuts they are working on a way to pop out some cheaper carbon frames sometime ASAP.

BBD

On a number of fronts, these two bikes are steps in the right direction. And serotta is to be applauded.

But something baffles me. To compete against other companies' carbon offerings, serotta brings out two ti bikes? If I were trying to compete against Starbucks and dunkin donuts, I'd offer coffee, not tea. If the overwhelming percentage of buyers want coffee (and carbon), how is tea (and ti) going to appeal to them without a robust, long-term marketing and educational campaign to sell the benefits of something different?

I hope I'm wrong but from a marketing and segmentation POV, this may be a good idea that's also the wrong idea. Are others reading the market differently?

[93legendti]

I think American ti is a great alternative to Chinese carbon.
Serotta's ti will be is above the fray of the Specialized, Trek, Cervelo, et all carbon competition.

I can see the naysayers if it was announced that these would be carbon bikes: "Have they given up on American ti?" "Serotta can't win competing against Specialized, Trek, Cervelo's carbon offerings..."

We get people in all the time asking for ti bikes...

[67-59]

But something baffles me. To compete against other companies' carbon offerings, serotta brings out two ti bikes? If I were trying to compete against Starbucks and dunkin donuts, I'd offer coffee, not tea. If the overwhelming percentage of buyers want coffee (and carbon), how is tea (and ti) going to appeal to them without a robust, long-term marketing and educational campaign to sell the benefits of something different?


If I wanted to compete against Dunkin Donuts, I'd sell donuts....

[echelon_john]

Ti=
- Quick to fabricate (with proven materials & manufacturing technique, which they have)
- Quick to finish (no paint)
- Good to display workmanship (Ooh, nice welds!)
- Fewer warrantee issues than carbon
- Quicker cash flow ramp-up than probably any other option
- A good match to marketplace desires, at least for the 'fondo' segment

Good decision. Can't wait to see the bikes.

[sevencyclist]

I applaud Bill for going about to right the prices and models. I agree need to look at carbon, but he is starting to stabalize the titanium operation in NY, and once that is starting to generate orders and churn out bikes, then he will have new offerings from the California side.

I liked suggestion from various people to consider selling forks by itself in addition to making frames. I think it is a niche that Serotta still has good reputation and can run with it to help boost the bottom line.

One thing at a time, and I think Bill is working on it.

With that said, as a consumer, if I was interested in a race bike, I would probably hold off on the orders until all of the offerings gets announced since I I would not know whether to get a Legend SG, Pronto, or wait for a new Meivici sibling to surface. So Serotta needs to be fairly quick in making those decision, otherwise, the sales might be lost to other companies that continues to make great bikes as well (like Seven, Moots, IF, Parlee, Calfee, Spectrum etc.)

[Climb01742]

Ok, if we play out the scenario...who does serotta take market share from among ti builders? Moots? Sorry, but no. Seven? Maybe but seven seems more focused on ti/carbon mixes. Tom Kellogg? Again, sorry but no way. Carl strong? Not really I don't think.

To be clear, I'm not poo-pooing the move theoretically. More affordable offerings are a great idea for serotta. But fishing in the ti pond will, I think, catch you minnows.

Maybe this is a time-buying move. A signal of future moves. Cool. But unless it gets serotta to a kick @ss carbon bike more people want and can afford, a diet of minnows only postpones the inevitable.

All that said, these bikes are a great signal of a willingness to change and do it quickly. Bravo.

[572cv]

Some very good observations in this thread.

To Ti being the quickest thing Serotta had to ramp up as the Pronto/Fondo, agreed. They have the skill and experience to make it a really good choice.

To Ti having to compete with carbon, I'm skeptical. There is an excellent marketing case to be made that Ti can be a better choice, depending on your intended use. We took a trip recently- none of the Ti frames had any problem, but one of the carbon (Madone) was damaged. Ti is sturdy, resists scratches, looks spiffy for a long time, and with a light group and wheels, can be quite decently light.

Ultimately, having basic bikes in a few market segments seems like a useful strategy. The meal is tappas. The Fondo isn't an appetizer, it is its own serving, distinct and different, with its own place on the menu for those who want to place an order.

[DRZRM]

I disagree, I've ridden both and owned ti from both companies, and I'd take a Serotta Legend over a Moots Vamoots (and likely an RSL, but I've never ridden one) any day. On the other hand I'd take a 29er from Moots over the Serotta. To act like Serotta can't take away business from any maker seems premature, though I think the comparison to Seven and Independent Fabrication is more reasonable. Serotta is not looking to knock off one man shop builders, I agree with the poster above, I think these are meant to take away from the big name Asian carbon, not the small frame makers like Spectrum and Strong (I have never in my life seen a ti Strong in the wild, how much is there to take away?). There are likely a fair number of people who will like the idea of dropping $4,000 on USA built ti rather than Asian built carbon. Just how many that will be is Serotta's ultimate question.

Ok, if we play out the scenario...who does serotta take market share from among ti builders? Moots? Sorry, but no. Seven? Maybe but seven seems more focused on ti/carbon mixes. Tom Kellogg? Again, sorry but no way. Carl strong? Not really I don't think.

To be clear, I'm not poo-pooing the move theoretically. More affordable offerings are a great idea for serotta. But fishing in the ti pond will, I think, catch you minnows.

Maybe this is a time-buying move. A signal of future moves. Cool. But unless it gets serotta to a kick @ss carbon bike more people want and can afford, a diet of minnows only postpones the inevitable.

All that said, these bikes are a great signal of a willingness to change and do it quickly. Bravo.

[nighthawk]

Ok, if we play out the scenario...who does serotta take market share from among ti builders? Moots? Sorry, but no. Seven? Maybe but seven seems more focused on ti/carbon mixes. Tom Kellogg? Again, sorry but no way. Carl strong? Not really I don't think.


Maybe Serotta takes market share from the carbon frame market. Meaning, maybe their Ti offerings will draw riders away from choosing carbon to begin with.

Seems plausible as Ti does seem to be the happy medium between Carbon (my bike broke) and Steel (my bike is heavy).

edit: just saw above post. I agree. :)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to do immediate damage control and buy some time to mark out more comprehensive strategy.

This is as much a public relations and reputation management problem as it is a manufacturing challenge. Probably more so.

Others here in the past have commented that Serotta HAD a race related heritage (7-11, '84 Olympics, Etc.) that has been lost. Just out of date or squandered depending on who you ask.

Whatever the cause, the point is that younger riders getting into the market now attach nothing special to the name "Serotta." The only cache that is still sticking is the "doctor and lawyer bike" label and that ain't gonna do it.

They have to create value for the products they are selling in the minds of younger buyers getting into the market.

That is not a manufacturing challenge. It's a "hipness" challenge. It's a Facebook, Twitter, and stories in the right venues in the popular media challenge. It's a marketing challenge, and that's something that Serotta has been--and let's be honest here--really bad at over the past 10 years.

It's got to be a two-pronged approach of best leverage of what Serotta still does well in manufacturing AND recreating that lost reputation.

No two prongs, no survive. That's how I see it.

BBD

[sevencyclist]

I think there is a common perception that Ti is high tech. Eyeglasses frames for example brags about ti frame as opposed to other material. Light weight is an obvious benefit, but it is associated with space material etc.

I believe if marketing starts a good campaign, a certain proportion of population may come to believe the superiority of Ti over carbon. Whether that is an ethical thing to do is another story.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Whether that is an ethical thing to do is another story.

. . . if Ti really is superior to carbon. And for some applications and purposes it is.

BBD

[oldpotatoe]

I believe if marketing starts a good campaign, a certain proportion of population may come to believe the superiority of Ti over carbon. Whether that is an ethical thing to do is another story.

Ethics in marketing, YGBSM.

Marketeers are professional liars.

[GregL]

I am interested in seeing the geometry for the Pronto and Fondo. I hope the Pronto geometry is closer to the stock geometry of the former HSG models. IMO the current stock geometry listed on the Serotta site is too similar to the "high front end" trend used by several of the larger brands (e.g., Specialized and Cervelo). If you want/need significant drop from saddle to bars, you need to use a -17 stem slammed to the headtube. I like Trek's H1/H2 model which allows the best of both worlds.

Greg

[rwsaunders]

Ti=
- Quick to fabricate (with proven materials & manufacturing technique, which they have)
- Quick to finish (no paint)
- Good to display workmanship (Ooh, nice welds!)
- Fewer warrantee issues than carbon
- Quicker cash flow ramp-up than probably any other option
- A good match to marketplace desires, at least for the 'fondo' segment

Good decision. Can't wait to see the bikes.

Especially if they have a stockpile of tubes in inventory just waiting to be welded.

[palincss]

There is an excellent marketing case to be made that Ti can be a better choice, depending on your intended use. We took a trip recently- none of the Ti frames had any problem, but one of the carbon (Madone) was damaged. Ti is sturdy, resists scratches, looks spiffy for a long time, and with a light group and wheels, can be quite decently light.


I have a Ti Spectrum I've owned for almost 21 years. It still looks good, and rides as well as it did when new. I don't know anybody who has had a Ti frame fail due to warranty issues; in fact, the one person I know who had to have a Ti frame replaced was T-boned on the bike trail by an out-of-control rider doing over 20 mph.

I know three people who have had to replace carbon frames because they cracked: two had their bikes fall over when leaned against trees or walls, and the weight of full water bottles twisting the cage caused the downtube to split; the third frame failed for no apparent reason.

All purely anecdotal evidence, of course.

[palincss]

That is not a manufacturing challenge. It's a "hipness" challenge. It's a Facebook, Twitter, and stories in the right venues in the popular media challenge. It's a marketing challenge, and that's something that Serotta has been--and let's be honest here--really bad at over the past 10 years.


Considering the "hipness" aspect for a moment, can Serotta's current carbon technology be considered even slightly "hip"? Compare the staid look of a Meivici with the swoopy lines of a Madone or Domane. Which is the "hip" choice?

[KeithNYC]

Considering the "hipness" aspect for a moment, can Serotta's current carbon technology be considered even slightly "hip"? Compare the staid look of a Meivici with the swoopy lines of a Madone or Domane. Which is the "hip" choice?

Yes but perhaps we've reached a tipping point. Its been quite a few years now that carbon monocoque (swoopy) frames have been "must have". They are absolutely everywhere, including low price points.

lugged carbon (and ti) can be sold as "old school" - in a good way. Old school certainly works with youth in the steel and fixie niches.

I mean the above as the marketing spin, of course.

[dekindy]

I have a Ti Spectrum I've owned for almost 21 years. It still looks good, and rides as well as it did when new. I don't know anybody who has had a Ti frame fail due to warranty issues; in fact, the one person I know who had to have a Ti frame replaced was T-boned on the bike trail by an out-of-control rider doing over 20 mph.

I know three people who have had to replace carbon frames because they cracked: two had their bikes fall over when leaned against trees or walls, and the weight of full water bottles twisting the cage caused the downtube to split; the third frame failed for no apparent reason.

All purely anecdotal evidence, of course.

Anything, and I mean anything, made my Man can break. My Serotta Legend DS dropout cracked the first year I had it. But as I have said many times, Serotta fixed it with no hassles even though I told them that I hit a chuckhole; and it was returned to me in an incredibly short time. Serotta's warranty service is the best!

[Climb01742]

Marketeers are professional liars.

only bad ones are.

or shall we sling over-generalizations about who works in a bike shop too?

old spud, given all the crappy bike shops and bike shop employees there are in the world, you -- as someone who is trying to set your shop apart and set a high bar for the level of service and professionalism you offer -- should be well aware that generalizations serve few good ends.

[EDS]

Isn't this effectively an identical plan to what Serotta had a few years ago with the HSG and Fierte models? Are the frames different then the classique or whatever it is currently/was recently called?

[sevencyclist]

One problem with Titanium bikes, if designed right, is that the bike maker basically built themselves out of the market. Many among us have gotten that Titanium bike and never needed another. While carbon bikes are not meant to be that last bike forever.

I got a titanium MTB, and it was hard to have a reason to get a new MTB. Fortunately, or unfortunately, mine did not have disc brakes, and to modernize to disc brakes was going to be almost as much as getting a new bike, so my wife allowed me to get one.

[FootWorksCycles]

Isn't this effectively an identical plan to what Serotta had a few years ago with the HSG and Fierte models? Are the frames different then the classique or whatever it is currently/was recently called?

Yes and no.

Yes - these are entry level prices for a high quality product just like the Fierte and recent Ready Custom bikes.

No - Those previous bikes were all built to order. Customers had to wait as long as it took to make a regular custom frame.

The new Pronto and Fondo, along with the other SG models are available immediately.

If your shop happened to have several Fiertes or RC's in stock it was because they ordered them in advance to have. If a customer wanted something that was not in stock they had to wait for it to be made.

Having frames available overnight is a new thing, and IMO a good thing. People hate waiting for anything nowadays.

[echelon_john]

As a full-time marketer and part-time frame builder & wheel builder, I will say that the best marketing--now, in the age of social media, more than ever--is based on the truth. The idea that marketing creates an image that isn't true, or isn't connected with the brand/service/product, is out of date. That **** gets busted immediately.

Sure, it's a positive spin on reality. But the most effective marketing is based on a reality where excellence is really present.

[oldpotatoe]

only bad ones are.

or shall we sling over-generalizations about who works in a bike shop too?

old spud, given all the crappy bike shops and bike shop employees there are in the world, you -- as someone who is trying to set your shop apart and set a high bar for the level of service and professionalism you offer -- should be well aware that generalizations serve few good ends.

ok, ok, some marketeers are professional liars..some politicians also. BUT marketing is often creating demand, often out of thin air.

There are generalizations about LBS all the time.

I tire of the stiffer, lighter, faster, better part of bicycle marketing tho..most do.

BTW-My major at the University of Colorado...ohhh many years ago, was Marketing.

[Ramjm_2000]

So what are the details on the new frames/bikes? I've looked on the blog and nothing of note other than on is a race geo vs. standard. Tube selection, dropouts, etc..?

[djg]

Anything, and I mean anything, made my Man can break. My Serotta Legend DS dropout cracked the first year I had it. But as I have said many times, Serotta fixed it with no hassles even though I told them that I hit a chuckhole; and it was returned to me in an incredibly short time. Serotta's warranty service is the best!

Yes, anything CAN break under the right circumstances (subject to the right forces or energy), and even the best quality control can miss the sort of mistake that might lead to a failure. But seriously, if we're talking about a Legend-weight Ti frame, a steel frame built from some of the newer thin-walled tubing, and contemporary race-weight alloy and carbon bikes, then on materials properties alone we ought to expect that Ti frame to endure a whole lot more than the others. I'm not saying that should settle anybody's bike choice, and I'm not saying you'll have a problem with any of the alternatives, which are all suitable materials for bike frames, but it does seem odd to me that one would dismiss the likely durability of a Ti frame on the (correct) theory that anything COULD fail.

[djg]

Ok, if we play out the scenario...who does serotta take market share from among ti builders? Moots? Sorry, but no. Seven? Maybe but seven seems more focused on ti/carbon mixes. Tom Kellogg? Again, sorry but no way. Carl strong? Not really I don't think.

To be clear, I'm not poo-pooing the move theoretically. More affordable offerings are a great idea for serotta. But fishing in the ti pond will, I think, catch you minnows.

Maybe this is a time-buying move. A signal of future moves. Cool. But unless it gets serotta to a kick @ss carbon bike more people want and can afford, a diet of minnows only postpones the inevitable.

All that said, these bikes are a great signal of a willingness to change and do it quickly. Bravo.

Climb, I respect the point of view up top, but really, I think it just embodies one set of preferences and not the only one. I know folks who love their Moots bikes (I know one pretty well personally), and I mean no disrespect to them or Moots, and I know that there's an internet population that seems to have some sort of fetish for the appearance of the Moots welds, and I don't get it, but I guess there's nothing wrong with that. OTOH, I suspect that even in the past year, with all the shake-up, Serotta took some non-zero number of sales from Moots and Seven (and IF) and I'm sure that there are folks who've long wanted a Serotta ti frame who were balking at 5,600 bucks but might be very interested in a complete Serotta bike, brand new and ready to roll at 4,300. Beyond that, there's head-to-head market "niche" competition, but also very likely some degree of competition across categories. You know, Moots and Look offer very different products, but they both offer road bikes and some cyclists might go either way. Anyway, yeah, there's reaching out and creating a buzz, and changing the network, and ultimately changing current demand, but on current demand alone, I suspect that Serotta will sell some of these bikes, and we'll just have to see how many.

My stock Serotta HSG Ti is an excellent bike, IMO. I think there's something to be said for that model -- not the label, but the approach -- if it's sold properly.

[Climb01742]

Climb, I respect the point of view up top, but really, I think it just embodies one set of preferences and not the only one. I know folks who love their Moots bikes (I know one pretty well personally), and I mean no disrespect to them or Moots, and I know that there's an internet population that seems to have some sort of fetish for the appearance of the Moots welds, and I don't get it, but I guess there's nothing wrong with that. OTOH, I suspect that even in the past year, with all the shake-up, Serotta took some non-zero number of sales from Moots and Seven (and IF) and I'm sure that there are folks who've long wanted a Serotta ti frame who were balking at 5,600 bucks but might be very interested in a complete Serotta bike, brand new and ready to roll at 4,300. Beyond that, there's head-to-head market "niche" competition, but also very likely some degree of competition across categories. You know, Moots and Look offer very different products, but they both offer road bikes and some cyclists might go either way. Anyway, yeah, there's reaching out and creating a buzz, and changing the network, and ultimately changing current demand, but on current demand alone, I suspect that Serotta will sell some of these bikes, and we'll just have to see how many.

My stock Serotta HSG Ti is an excellent bike, IMO. I think there's something to be said for that model -- not the label, but the approach -- if it's sold properly.

djg, well put. the new offerings are certainly more attractive and do some good things for the brand. i guess the heart of my question is, these new ti offerings will probably steal some market share within ti sales. in itself, cool, good. but without a fair amount of marketing and education, will they grow the ti category enough to materially impact serotta's bottom line the way a killer carbon bike would at an equally attractive price point?

i will absolutely grant that this move in ti and a later move in carbon aren't mutually exclusive. in fact, i'd guess they are sequential. i just don't know how much, in the end, these ti bikes will bump the bottom line.

another point that hit me yesterday...would a more affordable, killer carbon bike have a greater cannibalizing effect on high-end sales than these ti bikes will? how de-contented would less expensive carbon need to be to not tumble serotta's price/product ladder? that's a fascinating business question to me.

[EDS]

Yes and no.

Yes - these are entry level prices for a high quality product just like the Fierte and recent Ready Custom bikes.

No - Those previous bikes were all built to order. Customers had to wait as long as it took to make a regular custom frame.

The new Pronto and Fondo, along with the other SG models are available immediately.

If your shop happened to have several Fiertes or RC's in stock it was because they ordered them in advance to have. If a customer wanted something that was not in stock they had to wait for it to be made.

Having frames available overnight is a new thing, and IMO a good thing. People hate waiting for anything nowadays.

Sure about that? My HSG is a stock frame. When I decided to purchase one my LBS called Serotta and they had the frame in a couple days. Took longer to get the rest of the parts.

[jpw]

Do we know if these two new models will be 6/7 degree tt slopers, or more aesthetically pleasing at 0/1/2 degrees?

What braking and tire clearance on the Fondo?

[Ramjm_2000]

I wish there would be more details posted. Seems odd to be getting so excited about models we know so little about. For instance if they are standard straight gauge tubing using stock paragon dropouts, how does this differentiate themselves from a budget friendly DeSalvo or Lynskey Cooper ($2K price point)?

[mike p]

I'm dubious Serotta can make it. As a long time Serotta owner and fan I really hope they do! That said I think their choice to stick with Ti was a good one. When I think of my all time favorite Serottas two come to mind. The legend Ti and the CSI or it's predecessors. The CSI is a labor intensive bike to build and there's plenty of competition out there from some talented shops and individuals. Ti bikes can be put together quicker and Serotta has a long history of doing it right. I haven't seen the pronto, fondo, (lousy names, something Ben's good at picking, sorry Ben) but a level TT all Ti full out race legend and a rando styled Ti bike seem like a good start if the price is right.
Carbon, I don't think of Serotta and carbon together. I understand they've had some nice carbon, carbon Ti bikes but that's not what I think of when I think Serotta. Also can Serotta compete with tons of Asian carbon, some of it very good? Can they compete with crumpton or parlee?
If I were at the helm ( they'd be bankrupt already ) I'd stick with Ti and try to get back into steel, starting with a tigged 853, think classque then move into swaged tubed ( Colorado tubing ) think Colorado I, II, or III.
Also I think Serotta NEEDS to get back into racing!! Doesnt have to be euro, a masters, or smaller us based team think Embrocation! If Craig can do it im sure serotta can! Just support racing and get your bikes out there.

Good luck Serotta
Mike

[rustylion]

bill here from Serotta.

Everyone commenting on this thread has correctly analyzed our Pronto?Fondo introduction. I can only offer a so-called official voice so you know we are listening and always are willing to comment. So, here are the questions you may have wanted me to answer:

Yes, the Pronto/Fondo will be available as a frame and fork only.

We have not yet formally announced the Tried and Trued build kits for the Fondo/Pronto. They will be slightly different than the ones you can find on our website for SG Meivici and SG Legend.

Why Ti in a price category driven by carbon? We love Ti for several reasons: 1) It is a bike that lasts whether from the stress of simple hard/long riding or a crash; a Ti bike will almost always outlast the average $4000 carbon bike. 2) The handling and ride of a Ti bike - especially a well-designed and well-made one - is still pretty darn good performance even when compared to carbon in the same price category. 3) Lastly, it was something we could do in development fairly quickly. Are we interested in carbon in the Pronto/Fondo category? You bet but we have other developments we need to focus on at the moment in the carbon facility in Poway.

Fondo design is done and so is the geometry - we just don’t want to announce it until we are ready to produce bikes. The Fondo is close to being entered into production - we just need to finalize the finish scheme. A beta Pronto is being built for testing. Once we have test results, then we will know if we are done in design (or not) and then would know more the production schedule. In general, we think it better to hold back on sharing too many details about new stuff until we are in production which we will mean we are then 100% committed to build specs.

Yes, we will be back in racing. Soon.

I love to see how connected and intelligent this forum is. Basically, you have us figured out.

Thanks.

Ride hard, be well, have fun.
bill
518-584-8100x313
bill.watkins@serotta.com
www.rustylion.com

[fourflys]

as much as I've complained about the price of Serotta bikes, these two seem like a great deal to me...

Bravo Zulu to Serotta for getting back in the game at a price most can afford!

[BumbleBeeDave]

Now comes the challenge in engaging potential customers via all the tools available today. Facebook. Twitter. A photo blog on Tumblr. Ben's blog. Your blog. A reasonably well-made video on YouTube. The right stories in BRAIN.

The excellence in product has always been there and you just need to use that truth and the tools to get it out there to the people who are going to be interested in it.

The "hip" has always been there, but Serotta has never been very good at getting the word out to the right potential customer base. I love and support the brand, but to me that's the reality. Nice to see the cavalry galloping over the hill . . .

BBD

[jpw]

Ideally Serotta should have a flagship retail store with its frames/ bikes front center, and fitting on the premises, but also sell higher end complimentary goods. A dream I know, but worth thinking about long term. Should consider a deal with Signature as the retail expert and open a 'Serotta' in NYC.

[nahtnoj]

BUT marketing is often creating demand, often out of thin air.



You some kind of communist or something?

:)

[gearguywb]

Sure sounds like S is going in the right direction. Kudos to them for producing a bike that should appeal to many. A good fitting, well appointed ti bike should last a lifetime....or at least until bitten by the "I need a new.....bug" :)

[Elefantino]

Ideally Serotta should have a flagship retail store with its frames/ bikes front center, and fitting on the premises, but also sell higher end complimentary goods. A dream I know, but worth thinking about long term. Should consider a deal with Signature as the retail expert and open a 'Serotta' in NYC.
Nah. Open one in SF. Near Union Square.

I'll manage it. ;)

[bobswire]

Nah. Open one in SF. Near Union Square.

I'll manage it. ;)

Naw, open it on Valencia St. which is highly traveled by cyclists of all means and modes.
Turn on the masses.
But you can manage it I'll just come by now and then to shoot the s**t.

[rustylion]

bill here from serotta.

You are correct that our marketing and messaging has been muddled (understatement) in the last several years. I was not here but lots was going on (as you surmised) and communication was not a priority. It is now...or will be. So, one thing at a time. First, get back to what we do best: design/engineer/build the best road bikes on the planet in the price categories we choose to compete in. Then and only then, can we begin engaging with potential customers....which we will do and you will see...although not sure when.

No Serotta-only retail store by us anytime soon! We know how to design/engineer/build bikes but do not know retail!! We have a network of trusted, capable professional dealers who have their own showrooms. Yes, they do represent other brands so are not Serotta-only stores, we are comfortable with our bikes alongside good competition. Keeps us on our toes.

[soulspinner]

Thank u for the update, im interested in Serottas direction.

[Nooch]

Changes coming to the fondo design (remember the first was just a prototype)

[rustylion]

bill here from Serotta.

You guys kill me by knowing stuff about us before we do. I think you have the CIA spying on us with their satellites! Haha.

Pronto not ready yet (although prototype done and sent out for testing) but we are gearing up for Fondo developments and news on Monday.

Thanks!

Changes coming to the fondo design (remember the first was just a prototype)

[Elefantino]

Naw, open it on Valencia St. which is highly traveled by cyclists of all means and modes.
Turn on the masses.
But you can manage it I'll just come by now and then to shoot the s**t.
Actually, Cow Hollow. That would be a cool place for one.

Alas, rustylion is a killjoy.

[rustylion]

You gotta translate that one for me....

Actually, Cow Hollow. That would be a cool place for one.

Alas, rustylion is a killjoy.

[Elefantino]

You gotta translate that one for me....
No retail store that I can run in SF.

Harrumph. :D

[Nooch]

bill here from Serotta.

You guys kill me by knowing stuff about us before we do. I think you have the CIA spying on us with their satellites! Haha.

Pronto not ready yet (although prototype done and sent out for testing) but we are gearing up for Fondo developments and news on Monday.

Thanks!

Well ya put it on the Facebook!! I'm just the messenger!

[BumbleBeeDave]

bill here from Serotta.

You guys kill me by knowing stuff about us before we do. I think you have the CIA spying on us with their satellites! Haha.

Pronto not ready yet (although prototype done and sent out for testing) but we are gearing up for Fondo developments and news on Monday.

Thanks!

. . . well, uh, you know . . .

Just sayin' . . . ;)

BBD

[nighthawk]

Changes coming to the fondo design (remember the first was just a prototype)

Who anodized "condom" on your toptube? :)

[soulspinner]

Like showing cleavage only, cmon man!:rolleyes:

[rustylion]

...on the lack of SF retail store.

No retail store that I can run in SF.

Harrumph. :D

[palincss]

It's not only San Francisco where you lack a retail store. Serotta used to be big in the Metro DC area; no more. Seven has utterly eaten your lunch.

In fact, I suggest if you want to save the brand, you should study that situation and find out exactly how, and why, Seven has eaten your lunch and displaced you from the Washington DC market.

[Dromen]

Bill,
where will the news be reported today.

bill here from Serotta.

You guys kill me by knowing stuff about us before we do. I think you have the CIA spying on us with their satellites! Haha.

Pronto not ready yet (although prototype done and sent out for testing) but we are gearing up for Fondo developments and news on Monday.

Thanks!

[spierfalls]

bill here from Serotta.

You guys kill me by knowing stuff about us before we do. I think you have the CIA spying on us with their satellites! Haha.

Pronto not ready yet (although prototype done and sent out for testing) but we are gearing up for Fondo developments and news on Monday.

Thanks!

What type of testing are you talking about?

[bicycletricycle]

i dont know what the actual numbers of retail locations are in comparison to the past but i know that i used to work at a shop that got pushed out of being a dealer, seems like the trend in general has been to minimize dealers over time.

to some extent this is understandable. lots of brands would like to sell direct and make all those extra points but with the super deluxe custom tailored thing serotta has going i think that well trained available dealers are the key to success and worth the 35% cut they take of the pie.

[jpw]

I've been waiting impatiently for Serotta to finally announce the Pronto and Fondo bikes to the public. They told us dealers about it over a week ago and I am wondering why it took so long for them to let the cat out of the bag! Many of the comments told to the new CEO could have been avoided. Lots of members were clamoring for a more affordable bike, and it was already in the works.

Anyways, what they told us dealers is that they are $4295 with full Ultegra build. No other specifics, but I would bet it the typical T&T Ultegra package.

I am looking forward to being able to offer this bike to my customers. It opens a whole new market to Serotta.

When will you be updating the Serotta section of your website? 2009 is nearly four years ago.

[Dromen]

on the serotta website.

http://serotta.com/bicycles/fondo-sg/

[DRZRM]

Wow...that looks great! I'm impressed.

[jpw]

on the serotta website.

http://serotta.com/bicycles/fondo-sg/

Frame + fork $3,195. Competitive.

[rustylion]

In a blog post sometime in the future, either Ben or I will speak a bit on the type of internal and 3rd party testing we do on frames and forks prior to launching a new model. Actually, if I think about it, Ben is probably the right guy for that. But, I will put it on the talk-about agenda. What type of testing are you talking about?

[rustylion]

Thanks for the input and observation! Can't change the past but certainly can learn from it.

It's not only San Francisco where you lack a retail store. Serotta used to be big in the Metro DC area; no more. Seven has utterly eaten your lunch.

In fact, I suggest if you want to save the brand, you should study that situation and find out exactly how, and why, Seven has eaten your lunch and displaced you from the Washington DC market.

[rustylion]

There is a plan in place now, resources made available and therefore, things are changing...but only slowly, one thing at a time....and, the website - while on the "to-do" list - is a BIG project. so, it will not happen day-to-day but it will change in 2013 to more effectively represent the brand and speak about Serotta.

When will you be updating the Serotta section of your website? 2009 is nearly four years ago.

[Nooch]

There is a plan in place now, resources made available and therefore, things are changing...but only slowly, one thing at a time....and, the website - while on the "to-do" list - is a BIG project. so, it will not happen day-to-day but it will change in 2013 to more effectively represent the brand and speak about Serotta.

Hey Bill,

While the serotta website does need a ton of work, I think he was talking about the footworkscycles website.

D

[DHallerman]

Nevermind. I see Mr. Climb took care of that.

[DHallerman]

As a full-time marketer and part-time frame builder & wheel builder, I will say that the best marketing--now, in the age of social media, more than ever--is based on the truth. The idea that marketing creates an image that isn't true, or isn't connected with the brand/service/product, is out of date. That **** gets busted immediately.

Sure, it's a positive spin on reality. But the most effective marketing is based on a reality where excellence is really present.

As a full-time paid observer of digital marketing, big yes.

And which one of us doesn't like to put an honest, positive spin on reality when presenting ourselves to the world, too.

[rustylion]

Guess I misunderstood the post. Sorry.

Hey Bill,

While the serotta website does need a ton of work, I think he was talking about the footworkscycles website.

D

[FootWorksCycles]

Someone is ripping on MY site? Oh well, I rip on it everyday myself.

It might surprise some, but I am a completely solo practitioner. I run a physical therapy clinic and cycling analysis studio entirely on my own. I make the schedule. I answer the phone. I do the insurance billing. I do my own book keeping and I do my own taxes. AND..... I do my own website! I am proud to say that I know enough HTML coding to get myself into a lot of trouble.

So, yes, my site has not been updated in quite a while. It needs work. I need more time. If someone here on this thread was interested in helping me out, I might take you up on it. However, if you are on this thread and ripping my website, please step aside. I do not need your armchair quarterbacking. I am quite busy, as seen from my lack of time to update my site. Am I getting defensive? Yeah, maybe. But seriously, there are those of us out there in the cycling world who are trying to be on the front lines to help you get the best bike that fits right. To get you out of pain so you can get back on your bike. To get you a Serotta if you choose and then support you so you can enjoy it as best possible.

I have to say, I LOVE supporting Serotta. I hope for nothing more than their success. But, there is only one way that Serotta or any other bike company can stay successful... That is for YOU to buy their bikes! Maybe I need to clarify that.... You need to buy NEW BIKES from them. Purchasing a 15 year old Serotta on Ebay does nothing for them. If you really like the brand, and you really want to see them succeed you need to buy their new product. So, stop armchair quarterbacking about how their marketing is bad, how my website may be out of date, how their product is this or that. START SUPPORTING BY PURCHASING.
If you buy from me, I will back you up and you will get the best service available from the Seattle region.

For all the negativity that gets tossed around here you would swear that this is not a site for Serotta enthusiasts. So, how about starting a new trend from now on. Start looking to the future with some optimism. Serotta has made a huge comeback in a very short time. A lot has happened in under a year and I am willing to bet that a lot more will come soon. Give them a break, and give them some time. And, if you can find some time for me... I could use it too.