Can you help me with this Colnago?

[bthornt]

Says Colnago Competition on downtube. Looks like a master, masterlight, master x light, ... Mapei paint scheme, number hanger. No serial number to be found, not on bottom bracket shell or dropouts. The two rear dropouts have the number 3 on them. I don't think its a fake, it has pins holding it together on the inside (a characteristic of steel Colnagos, right?). Some pictures attached - I'm no Ansel Adams, that's for sure.

Came with a threaded chrome fork with Colnago clubs on the fork crown. I installed a Colnago fork, unthreaded, fork tube is metal but blades are carbon. Chris King headset, ITM stem with Colnago logo.

Any info is appreciated. I plan on selling it, so I'm particularly interested in what you think its monetary value is. It's a 59 cm (CT) and I would characterize its condition as shopworn. It doesn't appear to have ever had a bottom bracket installed, but it has had a wheel in the rear dropout.

I also have a mapei saddle and cateye computer to go along with it, both new in box.

[christian]

There's an internet app for determining monetary value of old bicycles called Ebay. What's the tubing sticker say? What type of fork does it have?

[oldpotatoe]

Says Colnago Competition on downtube. Looks like a master, masterlight, master x light, ... Mapei paint scheme, number hanger. No serial number to be found, not on bottom bracket shell or dropouts. The two rear dropouts have the number 3 on them. I don't think its a fake, it has pins holding it together on the inside (a characteristic of steel Colnagos, right?). Some pictures attached - I'm no Ansel Adams, that's for sure.

Came with a threaded chrome fork with Colnago clubs on the fork crown. I installed a Colnago fork, unthreaded, fork tube is metal but blades are carbon. Chris King headset, ITM stem with Colnago logo.

Any info is appreciated. I plan on selling it, so I'm particularly interested in what you think its monetary value is. It's a 59 cm (CT) and I would characterize its condition as shopworn. It doesn't appear to have ever had a bottom bracket installed, but it has had a wheel in the rear dropout.

I also have a mapei saddle and cateye computer to go along with it, both new in box.

I'm guessing Technos..MasterLight had more 'facets' to the downtube, from the pix. late 90s, early 2000s

[ultraman6970]

That colnago is team edition colnago, do you see the tab number?? that's why maybe the thing doesn't have a serial number at all.

As for the tubing... maybe is a mix of tubes, EM and Colnago made special bikes and just put the paint job that matched the teams to them so is really hard to box those bikes with a model name sometimes you know.

If it has a number 3 hmm... or is the year... 93?? or is maybe the 3rd extra bike in some team, colnagos never came with a tab number right out the factory unless was custom made for a team. If it was a replacement frame for a team well... that makes sense why wasnt put together, specially if the darn bike was built just at the dawn of the team disappearance. Where in the world did you find this if you can tell us??

As for price, because is a team bike and is new I would say that worth some cash but tell you right away, here in the forums we are cheap hahaha... and pretty much a colnago is common here so if you price it too high it wont sell. Ebay is hard to say because sometimes the stuff is there for years, sometimes is gone right away.

Did you check a serial number in the fork steering tube? sometimes are there.

Hope this helps...

[ultraman6970]

I believe the technos did not have those tubes... and the carbon fork was used in the technos... team bike for sure, the question is what team. Bunch of pro teams and small teams were sponsored by colnago.

[bthornt]

First, I would like to thank everyone for their input. The downtube has a sticker that says Gilco Design at the top and Columbus at the bottom. It has the Columbus Dove and Colnago Club.

The three main tubes are heavily faceted, I guess it's just not evident in the pictures.

It didn't come with the carbon fork, it came with a chrome steel fork.

The fork does have a serial number: F196 AA0018

Once again, thanks a lot to everyone.

[bthornt]

I got it on ebay several years ago.

[chismog]

It looks like a Master Olympic. Defnitely not a fake.

If only the top and down tubes are shaped, with a round seat tube, it is a Tecnos. But those shapes are different than Master.

If the three main tubes are profiled/shaped, it is a Master series.

Based on the pantographed C "new" style seat cluster, it is from the 90s and post-dates the "Master Piu" of the 80s which has an older style seat cluster.

In the 90s, there were two series of Masters with this cluster. The first was the Master Olympic which has internal brake cable routing. The later Master X Light (Master Light if you got paint scheme AD10 from certain years) had external routing at 7 o clock on the top tube.

You can't really tell if it is a team frame based purely on the number hanger. That is a common option on Colnagos made/sold for the european market. Remember that this frame was the top Colnago of the day (predates production carbon frames like the C40) so many people who would buy this were planning to race it.

The serial number/lack of is a little weird. Most will have a number on the rear drops and possibly the BB shell. But, those numbers are often hard to decipher, overstamped, unreadable. It certainly could be a team frame and based on the paint, maybe even a Mapei frame, which is pretty cool. But you'll have a hard time proving provenance.

Because it is a 59 c-t and not Freuler geometry where they seat tube pokes up above the seat cluster, it's a little unusual. Most of the 59+cm Master X Lights that Colnago has made for the past 10-15 years have been Freuler geo.

Adding all this up, plus the fact that is came with a standard precisa chrome fork (and not carbon).... I would put this mid 90s and would say (again) this is almost certainly a Master Olympic. Even if it doesn't say that on the top tube, it's the equivalent frame from the same production time.

Value? All over the map. If you have both forks and the condition is pretty good, you might be able to snag up to $1200 on eBay. But I think that's a stretch. More likely it goes for between $700-1k.


Hope this helps. It's quite a sweet frame and if were in MY stable, a keeper!

[chismog]

More questions for you, can you post these dimensions:

Top tube length c-c
Head tube length end-end, no headset.
Fork steerer length overall.

If it is a standard Master Olympic it's gonna have a top tube of 56.9. If it is a 58 (~58.5 to the seat lug point) and not a 59 it will have a top tube of 56.3.

If it is a real Mapei team frame it could be anything (but likely longer) since those were probably made custom for specific team riders.

That could help you with provenance.

[bthornt]

Thanks for your post. You certainly seem extremely well informed on this subject!

I suppose I could have measured the seat tube incorrectly, but I keep coming up with 59 CT. The top tube appears to be 57.5 or 58 CC. My best guess at the head tube is 16.5 or so, but a headset has been installed, making it difficult to get an accurate measure. The chrome fork has a steerer length of 22, starting at the top of the fork crown (sloping, by the way) to the top of the threads.

Once again, thanks for your incredibly detailed and informative response.

[chismog]

So, a longer top tube makes it more interesting. Colnago standard sizes are considered "short" on top and almost all of the actual team frames I've ever seen are custom made and have a longer than standard top tube. If yours measures out to 57.5 or 58 it's almost definitely a custom frame, since a 59 would have a regular geometry of 56.9 tt.

I think you can add it all up to get a good idea of what you've got:

-longer top tube than standard (likely custom for a racer)
-no serial number, funky/unusual serial number (likely custom, again)
-number hanger (made to race)
-mapei paint (I'll wager all those colored cubes are paint and not decals)
-mid 90s (when master was the standard racing issue frame)

Hard to imagine someone getting a custom frame to race on and having it painted up in Mapei scheme, but not being on Mapei. Anything is possible though.

My best guess is that it's the real deal. You should search for Mapei racing photos from that time period to see if you can nail down the specific year based on the paint job. There are some variations from year to year. Anything you can do to help pinpoint the provenance will increase the value.

No question, a super nice frame! I love Masters, they are really sweet steel frames and they ride sooo nice.

[ultraman6970]

This might help a little bit...

http://www.magazineclassifieds.co.uk/search/cyclingweekly/details/297972/Colnago_Master.php


As for the real mapei team bikes, the paint was basically white with the other colors over the top, this one is blue and the mapei area figures doesnt match. IMO is a team issued bike. The gilco is a series of tubes Columbus made back in the day with those weird shapes, thats what the Gilco thing means just in case you dont know, the frames gets stiffer that way.

Good find... you have a really rare machine in there.

[oliver1850]

I found the Gilco tubed Master Olympic in a 1996 catalog, but the Mapei paint is different from yours. Somewhere I have a 1998 catalog, but it's in hiding at the moment.

[jet sanchez]

The serial number should be on the front derailleur braze-on.

As others have said, it is probably a Master from the mid-90s or so, it isn't necessarily a team bike though, anyone could get the number hanger added as an option. Was the seller in Europe?

[bthornt]

I sure am getting some great information from this post. Thanks to everyone who has replied.

I can't find a serial number on the front derailleur braze on.

[wallymann]

master x-light had the semi-vertical rear dropouts, in addition to the external top-tube cable routing you mentioned.

It looks like a Master Olympic. Defnitely not a fake.

If only the top and down tubes are shaped, with a round seat tube, it is a Tecnos. But those shapes are different than Master.

If the three main tubes are profiled/shaped, it is a Master series.

Based on the pantographed C "new" style seat cluster, it is from the 90s and post-dates the "Master Piu" of the 80s which has an older style seat cluster.

In the 90s, there were two series of Masters with this cluster. The first was the Master Olympic which has internal brake cable routing. The later Master X Light (Master Light if you got paint scheme AD10 from certain years) had external routing at 7 o clock on the top tube.

You can't really tell if it is a team frame based purely on the number hanger. That is a common option on Colnagos made/sold for the european market. Remember that this frame was the top Colnago of the day (predates production carbon frames like the C40) so many people who would buy this were planning to race it.

The serial number/lack of is a little weird. Most will have a number on the rear drops and possibly the BB shell. But, those numbers are often hard to decipher, overstamped, unreadable. It certainly could be a team frame and based on the paint, maybe even a Mapei frame, which is pretty cool. But you'll have a hard time proving provenance.

Because it is a 59 c-t and not Freuler geometry where they seat tube pokes up above the seat cluster, it's a little unusual. Most of the 59+cm Master X Lights that Colnago has made for the past 10-15 years have been Freuler geo.

Adding all this up, plus the fact that is came with a standard precisa chrome fork (and not carbon).... I would put this mid 90s and would say (again) this is almost certainly a Master Olympic. Even if it doesn't say that on the top tube, it's the equivalent frame from the same production time.

Value? All over the map. If you have both forks and the condition is pretty good, you might be able to snag up to $1200 on eBay. But I think that's a stretch. More likely it goes for between $700-1k.


Hope this helps. It's quite a sweet frame and if were in MY stable, a keeper!

[bookit]

well... looks like a colnago...

[chismog]

Confirmed (?, looks pretty real to me) Ballerini Mapei TT frame with paint that looks just like yours: http://www.ebay.com/itm/COLNAGO-Columbus-Team-MAPEI-Franco-Ballerini-Chrono-Time-Trial-Dura-Ace-/251166716390?pt=Road_Bikes&hash=item3a7ab3f1e6

[bthornt]

The paint job is virtually identical. Thanks for this link.