OT: RIP George McGovern

[thwart]

Liberal icon, war hero, history professor.

Died at age 90.

I'll never forget shaking his hand while I worked at a grocery store back in high school, in those days when presidential primary campaigning was a little 'closer to the ground'.

[maxdog]

Always liked that guy. Well 90 ain't bad.

[Fishbike]

Regardless of what you thought of his politics, you have to admire the fact that he stuck to his convictions. He was the first presidential candidate I "voted" for. I was in the first grade.

[Ray]

liberal icon, war hero, history professor.

+1

[pitonpat]

Sen. McGovern received my first ever presidential vote in 1972. Unfortunately, he lost badly to Richard ("I'm not a crook") Nixon. I can't help wondering how many lives might have been saved in the Viet Nam war had McGovern been elected. The proven decency of McGovern's life contrasts sharply with the political demise and personal deceit of Nixon. My vote was not wasted.

[redir]

Sen. McGovern received my first ever presidential vote in 1972. Unfortunately, he lost badly to Richard ("I'm not a crook") Nixon. I can't help wondering how many lives might have been saved in the Viet Nam war had McGovern been elected. The proven decency of McGovern's life contrasts sharply with the political demise and personal deceit of Nixon. My vote was not wasted.

Well said and an interesting take on voting in general.

[Ray]

I can't help wondering how many lives might have been saved in the Viet Nam war had McGovern been elected.
Agree with the sentiment (I voted for him in my school's mock election, but was only 13 at the time), but I find it really hard to play this counter-factual game with anyone who lost by THAT much. Like trying to imagine if Goldwater had won in '64. When I'm really bored, though, I can waste some interesting time ruminating about how things would be different if the chips had fallen just slightly differently in the Bush/Gore election. Because that was essentially a tie and it wasn't much more than a coin flip that determined the course of history. And that's extremely recent history so its easier to speculate through to today...

-Ray

[aaronv]

For anyone interested in his life I can recommend the documentary
"One Bright Shining Moment"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468528/

[Chance]

Liked him as a man for he genuinely seemed to mean well. RIP.

Regardless of what you thought of his politics, you have to admire the fact that he stuck to his convictions.

:confused: Actually, no.

Isn’t that too broad a brush to admire any person? (In general; not questioning McGovern out of respect) When we happen to agree with their views or convictions it may seem an admirable quality, but when we oppose them doesn’t it seem more like he’s intransigent? Inflexible, stubborn, hardheaded, and so on? That in itself doesn’t seem a good reason to admire or respect a person. We need a higher standard for everyone; and particularly politicians. Perhaps being right in the first place should be a prerequisite.

Again, my comment above is not directed at McGovern.

[Ray]

We need a higher standard for everyone; and particularly politicians. Perhaps being right in the first place should be a prerequisite.

Sure, brilliant. Now all we have to do is agree on what that "right" is. :cool:

A really nice piece by Bob Dole on his old friend - a reminder of a relatively recent time when the two sides really knew how to work together:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/george-mcgovern-the-man-who-never-gave-up/2012/10/21/fca24da8-1b9d-11e2-ba31-3083ca97c314_story.html?hpid=z3

-Ray

[mack]

Always appreciated and valued his viewpoint, throughout his many years.....

[Chance]

Sure, brilliant. Now all we have to do is agree on what that "right" is. :cool:



If you're not sure of what is "right" just ask me.;)

Seriously Ray, you know most people "know" what is right. The problem is rarely a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. And lack of respect for others, and so on. We're just a flawed race. It's really amazing we get along as well as we do when we have so many competing interests.


BTW, thanks for link. Agree old guys like Dole and McGovern on average had more class and could work together. That's lacking today.

[Ray]

Seriously Ray, you know most people "know" what is right. The problem is rarely a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will. And lack of respect for others, and so on. We're just a flawed race. It's really amazing we get along as well as we do when we have so many competing interests.


BTW, thanks for link. Agree old guys like Dole and McGovern on average had more class and could work together. That's lacking today.

In various life situations, sure, there are some pretty easy "rights" and "wrongs". But when it comes to public policy, there are often several ways to skin the proverbial cat but once each of us decides which we favor we tend to see that approach as "right" and various other competing ideas as "wrong"... And, yeah, it is sort of a miracle that we get along as well as we do... :cool:

-Ray

[Aaron O]

I guess politics from 40 years ago is now history and thus fair game. I'll supply an opposite take on Nixon, prefaced by a disclaimer that, had I been alive, I'd have certainly voted for McGovern:

Nixon pulled out of Vietnam responsibly, which is extremely difficult to do. Nixon didn't begin Vietnam, Kennedy (along with the ghosts of French colonialism) is directly responsible for that stroke of genius.

Nixon's Sec. of State was actually, from a results standpoint, among the most effective and rational we've had. The comment "Only Nixon could go to China" is a two edged sword; sure, he'd have condemned anyone else for doing it, but his willingness to break tradition helped to contribute to the fall of the USSR (whether that qualifies as a good thing is debatable, but everyone then wanted it) and helped to build a trade partner. In the long run, China's government will fall as a direct result of free market pushes resulting from Nixon/Kissinger.

Nixon's economic policies, by today's standards, would qualify as far left.

Nixon was a flawed, complicated person, but he ran a relatively competent and successful presidency. I can think of far worse from both parties that succeeded him. Reagan's Iran/Contra debacle is far more offensive to me then Water Gate...of any US President who deserved to be impeached, Reagan leads that list.

[Bud_E]

I vaguely remember a story in Newsweek. During his campaign McGovern was going through a crowd shaking hands and an annoying heckler kept yelling at him. He smiled at the guy, leaned in towards him and in a quiet voice said "kiss my ass". The guys reaction was caught in a great picture.

[sheh8me2]

He was definitely one of the good ones, though he seemed a tad loopy at the time.

[Fixed]

I remember 1972 siting watching richie havens sing about freedom the headliner was George McGovern it was a beautiful day
Cheers