Lightweight disk: UCI legal?

[Ken Lehner]

I see that the new Lightweight disk is actually a tensioned spoke wheel, with the white bits merely for aerodynamics. Does this not run afoul of the UCI ruling against fairings (and which disallows wheel covers)?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2005/tech/shows/interbike05/?id=interbike0519/lightweight-disc-wheel

[coylifut]

I believe I saw those used in the tour. I can only assume that they are indeed uci legal.

[Ken Lehner]

I believe I saw those used in the tour. I can only assume that they are indeed uci legal.

I can't imagine how. Here's a description from CarbonSports' Web site on the construction of the disk:

"The spoke threads are wound around two thin foam cores. As a last step, a thin white layer is used to cover the entire wheel. The top layer does not transfer any weight, which is why it can be kept very thin."

That top layer is, by admission, not a structural part of the wheel. How can this be legal?

Do you happen to remember who used it?

[Fixed]

I believe I saw those used in the tour. I can only assume that they are indeed uci legal.
bro fot the t.t. cheers :beer:

[Ken Lehner]

bro fot the t.t. cheers :beer:

English, please?

[Fixed]

Please excuse me I would think that would only be legal for the time trial .thank you

[coylifut]

I can't imagine how. Here's a description from CarbonSports' Web site on the construction of the disk:

"The spoke threads are wound around two thin foam cores. As a last step, a thin white layer is used to cover the entire wheel. The top layer does not transfer any weight, which is why it can be kept very thin."

That top layer is, by admission, not a structural part of the wheel. How can this be legal?

Do you happen to remember who used it?

no. I don't remember who was using them, but it was more than one rider. the only reason why I remember is that I was watching the final TT with my wife and we both noticed. We thought there were meerly graphics applied to look like spokes. They were clearly the same wheel as the one pictured.

[ada@prorider.or]

well 1993
futher i would not say anything but it was me!
cees

[Ken Lehner]

I understand the language barriers here, and I appreciate your posting. Are you saying that you used this wheel in 1992 in a UCI race? Can you explain how the wheel is UCI legal, if the outer layer is not structural but is an aerodynamic cover? Thanks!

[ada@prorider.or]

I understand the language barriers here, and I appreciate your posting. Are you saying that you used this wheel in 1992 in a UCI race? Can you explain how the wheel is UCI legal, if the outer layer is not structural but is an aerodynamic cover? Thanks!


am am saying that we develop the wheel
and that testing here was taken place in giro 1993

by the way uci do not have regulations about wheels for time trial
only mass start races
only when other people envoled or can get hurt there is a regulation
same on track


well the cover is pure foam and not structural
and it has worse aerodynamic to these that we use now
wich is totaly flat
and those wheels are like a normal wheel
and easily damaged

well thats why we learn through the years

[jerk]

there are no rules for wheels used in uci time trial beyond the one which states that they must be of the same size.

jerk

[zeroking17]

am am saying that we develop the wheel
and that testing here was taken place in giro 1993


That looks like Lemond in the photo. Did he test the wheels?


...

[ada@prorider.or]

That looks like Lemond in the photo. Did he test the wheels?


...


yes he did and our developed carbon spoke wheels also

[lnomalley]

most disc wheels have a foam core.. aint nothing illegal about it. disc wheels are not for mass start events but are cool for individual and team time trials (uci wise). it could be made of your momma's secret recipe cookies wrapped in carbon...
the construction method itself or the aesthetics of the method are not an issue in this context. so, to answer your question... his wheels rock for tt and foam core is common in disc tt wheels....cees knows more than i ever will.. especially because this is his wheel so i'll leave it to him.. but it looks to me like the foam is there to smooth at the spaces in between his carbon spoke system... so the carbon just functions the same the carbon does in most other discs... but it isnt a faring... its a disc.

nice piece of engineering cees... shoot, i'd love to live a day in your head.

[CarbonSports]

am am saying that we develop the wheel
and that testing here was taken place in giro 1993

Dear Mr. Beers,

the Lightweight Diskwheel was invented in 1989 by Mr. Dierl & Mr. Obermayer.
Here you find an article of a 1991 (!) issue of TOUR, Europe´s largest cycling magazine, describing the construction of the Lightweight Disk in detail (http://www.carbofibretec.de/91.pdf)

It is correct, though, that you SOLD the disks until you and the 2 inventors departed. You never offered diskwheels in the following ~10 years (because you were not able to build them)


well the cover is pure foam and not structural

By looking at the very detailed description of the construction of the disk in the article you will note that the foam is absolutely structural

and it has worse aerodynamic to these that we use now
wich is totaly flat

All experts nowadays agree that a lense-shaped disk is more aerodynamic than a flat disk.

[ada@prorider.or]

[QUOTE=CarbonSports]

[CarbonSports]

again mister behrens that bit true
they only show hoe the wheels where made by our design
thats the artical i n tour
as you know let the wheels made in DACHAU we should have know better before! becuase a concentration kamp in the was there that we could not trust the people
as you emailed me how its really was i told you
we payed them to work for us
and becuase i had a lot of trouble with them the sold it to you when i got me brainsurge they found it a good time to get rid of it becuase i was not able at that time to do anythhing about it

again they told you something and i explained
also you keep saying that ulrich won the tour wheels we changed it since the setup with kevlar breaking surface and rim made round in one piece

do not say thing you do not know!!!!


Mr. Beers, I feel pity for you.

Stay in your own dreamworld.

Cheers

[JohnS]

I just LOVE these p*ssing contests!!! :argue:

[Frustration]

This is entertaining...


I can state that after seeing the cross section of the disc(ish) wheel up close, Mr Behrens is correct. I have also spoken to the UCI commis re what constitutes a cover and, as the thin layer is bound and not temporary it's OK.


It's a bit Like the Mavic Cosmic Carbones. That's a bit of a (heavy) metal rim and a carbon sheath too (changed for this year).


Lastly, Like Spinergies before, The UCI can decide, sometimes on the fly, what is and isn't usable...

[Ken Lehner]

This is entertaining...


I can state that after seeing the cross section of the disc(ish) wheel up close, Mr Behrens is correct. I have also spoken to the UCI commis re what constitutes a cover and, as the thin layer is bound and not temporary it's OK.


It's a bit Like the Mavic Cosmic Carbones. That's a bit of a (heavy) metal rim and a carbon sheath too (changed for this year).


Lastly, Like Spinergies before, The UCI can decide, sometimes on the fly, what is and isn't usable...

So, would you say that my "disk" wheel, which consists of a regular spoked wheel with a monokote cover that is glued onto the rim ("not temporary") would be UCI legal?

[ergott]

So, would you say that my "disk" wheel, which consists of a regular spoked wheel with a monokote cover that is glued onto the rim ("not temporary") would be UCI legal?

NO

The power of google.
http://www.uci.ch/english/about/wheels.htm

UCI Rules - 2002:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Non-standard wheels in conformity with article 1.3.018:
Article 1.3.018 relates only to group races (in packs).

In this type of event, the riders generally use standard (conventional) wheels which are clearly defined in article 1.3.018. These wheels are authorised de facto.

However, during races in packs, certain riders do use non-standard wheels (rims higher than 2.5 cm, fewer than 16 spokes, spoke thicknesses of over 2.4 mm). If any of these conditions is noted, the wheel is deemed to be a non-standard wheel and must have passed a break test in order for it to be authorised for use in competition.

The manufacturers inform the UCI of the names of wheels which have been successfully tested. The names of these wheels are shown in the list below. The wheels can therefore be clearly identified. If this is not the case then the wheel is not authorised for use.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ADA:

Ada wheel - V profile (50mm)
Ambrosio:

Ambrosio Onda (jante/rim Focus or FCS 28)
Ambrosio X Carbo
Aerohead:

Clincher Pro front wheel (16 rayons / spokes)
Bianchi:

XL Levitation " 16, 24 rayons / spokes "
XL Elevation " 16, 24 rayons / spokes "
Campagnolo:

NEUTRON Tubular
NEUTRON Clincher
HYPERON
PROTON
EURUS
BORA
SCIROCCO G3
ZONDA G4
ZONDA " 18 rayons / spokes " (production stoppée en 1999)
ATLANTA 96 " 28, 32, 36 rayons / spokes " (production stoppée en 1999) Colnago:

Colnago Star
Corima:

Aéro boyau " 18 et 24 rayons / spokes"
Aéro pneu " 18 et 24 rayons / spokes"
Citec:

Citec 3000 aluminum ( 16 rayons / 16 spokes )
Citec Ultralite aluminum (20 rayons / 20 spokes)
Citec Jet aluminum (16 rayons / 16 spokes)
Décathlon:

Penta Aero 20
Dierl:

Light Weight Carbon Fiber
Fir:

Galaxium - jante alu - ailettes carbones sur rayons
RA Antara " 28 rayons / spokes"
RA Antara " 18 rayons / spokes"
Speed Lite " 18,24 et 28 rayons / spokes "
Gipiemme:

Gipiemme Grecal 28''
Gipiemme Tecno Star 28''
Gipiemme Tecno 024 Race 28''
Gipiemme Fulcrum 28''
HED:

ALPS 700C (18 rayons / spokes)
Kinlin:

X KEYMET KWS-C1
Marchisio:

Tetragon (16 rayons / spokes)
Zephir (16 rayons / spokes)
Mavic:

Cosmic Carbone SSC
Cosmic Elite 2 (jante/rim CXP 30)
Ksyrium SSC
Ksyrium SSC SL
Ksyrium Elite
Nippon Mitsubishi Oil Corporation:

Nisseki carbon wheel AM27 (18 rayons / spokes)
Reynolds:

Stratus DV (16 rayons/spokes)
Stratus DV - UL (Carbon) (16 rayons / spokes)
Ritchey:

WCS/Pro DS 27 (16 rayons / spokes)
DT Bladed Aero Spokes (20 rayons / spokes)
Comp DS (20 rayons / spokes)
Rolf Prima:

Rolf Prima Vigor - aluminium clincher front wheels (14 rayons / spokes)
Shimano:

WH - 7700 & WH-7701 Normal
WH - 7700 & WH-7701 carbon tubular
WH - 7700 & WH-7701 alloy tubular
WH - R535
WH - R540
WH - 6500
DURA-ACE aluminium (16 rayons/spokes)
Spinergy:

Spinergy SRX (2B02) " 20-28 rayons / spokes "
Spinergy SR3 (2S02) " 20-28 rayons / spokes"
Spinergy X AERO (PRI-FC-111) " 16-20 rayons / spokes"
Spinergy X AERO LITE (2L02) " 18-20 rayons / spokes"
Spinergy X AERO CARBON " 16-20 rayons / spokes"
Sunny Crown Enterprise:

Sunny Crown Enterprise CKT Carbone (16 et 18 rayons / spokes)
CKT AURORA Carbon (16 rayons / spokes)
Thorius:

Thorius - model SHADO Carbon - pneu (16/20 rayons / spokes)
Thorius - model SHADO Carbon - boyau (16/20 rayons / spokes)
Thorius - model N'ERA (24 rayons / spokes)
Trek:

Bontrager X-Lite Tubular
Bontrager X-Lite Clincher
Bontrager Race Lite Tubular
Bontrager Race Lite Clincher
Bontrager Race X Lite Carbon
Bontrager Race X Lite Aero
Bontrager Aero Tubular
"Vector Comp" (Rolf)
"Vector Pro" (Rolf)
VELOMAX:

Circuit
TEMPEST II
ZIPP Speed Weaponry:

ZIPP 303 (Z3) Tubular 700 c (jante/rim ZIPP 280)
ZIPP 303 Tubular 650 c (jante/rim ZIPP 245)
ZIPP 404 (Z4) Tubular 700 c (jante/rim ZIPP 360)
ZIPP 404 Tubular 650 c (jante/rim ZIPP 330)
ZIPP 404 Clincher 700 c (jante/rim ZIPP 505)
ZIPP 404 Clincher 650 c (jante/rim ZIPP 460)
ZIPP 303 Clincher 700 c (jante/rim ZIPP 415)
ZIPP 303 Clincher 650 c (jante/rim ZIPP 370)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
article 1.3.018:
Wheels of the bicycle may vary in diameter between 70 cm maximum and 55 cm minimum, including the tyre. For the cyclo-cross bicycle the width of the tyre shall not exceed 35 mm and it may not incorporate any form of spike or stud.
For massed start road races only wheel designs granted prior approval by the UCI may be used. Wheels will have minimum 12 spokes; spokes can be round, flattened or oval, as far as no dimension of their sections exceeds 10 mm. In order to be granted approval wheels must have passed a rupture test as prescribed by the UCI in a laboratory approved by the UCI. The test results must show that the rupture characteristics obtained are compatible with those resulting from an impact sustained during normal use of the wheel. The following criteria must be fulfilled:

On impact, no element of the wheel may become detached and be expelled outwards.
The rupture must not present any shattered or broken off elements, or any sharp or serrated surfaces that could harm the user, other riders and/or spectators.
The rupture characteristics must not cause the hub to become separated from the rim in such a way that the wheel becomes detached from the forks.
Without prejudice to the tests imposed by the laws, regulations or customs, standard (traditional) wheels are exempted from the rupture test referred to above. A traditional wheel is deemed to be a wheel with at least 16 metal spokes; the spokes may be round, flat or oval, provided that no dimension of their cross sections exceeds 2.4 mm; the section of the rim must not exceed 2.5 cm on each side.
Notwithstanding this article, the choice and use of wheels remains subject to articles 1.3.001 to 1.3.003.

[Serotta_James]

You are way out of line. Consider yourself warned.