OT: kids + Ferraris

[LegendRider]

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/two-badly-hurt-when-ferrari-crashes-and-burns-in-a/nShLf/

This story is mind-boggling. An 18 year old kid is given a Ferrari (used however!!!) and within a week he's nearly killed himself and a friend. I cannot understand the mindset of a parent who believes giving a kid this type of car is a good decision.

[vav]

that COMMON SENSE = NOT SO COMMON after all.

Besides, is there a better way to show how much you love your kid/s than an expensive gift? :rolleyes:

[MattTuck]

I guess that is one way, albeit a very costly one, to learn that driving is a privilege and a great responsibility.


I don't think it is 'kids' in general that are the problem. Many of our great grand parents came to this country alone as kids (8-16 years old) with only a few hundred bucks (in today's terms) in their pockets, hoping for a better life. Kids can understand responsibility.

I suspect that in this case, the sense of arrogant disregard for the rules and the entitlement started long before he was handed the keys.

[rwsaunders]

C'mon Mark...at least the father showed him how to be thrifty...it was used.

[Mr Cabletwitch]

My parents allowed me to have an almost new (Demo) Camaro Z28 when I turned 16. I at least worked hard for that car doing dishes in my parents restaurant from the age of 10 and then continuing to work unpaid until I was 18. Giving a young kid a sports car is just about as dumb as you can get. I'm honestly lucky to be alive at this point after all the stupid ass stuff I did. 99% of teen drivers can't handle the power a sports car can deliver. I can't count how many fields I spun out into. Plus the parked tractor trailer I hit. The only good thing is my parents learned better when my little brother turned 16 and bought him a little 4 door BMW.

The funny part now is I drive a 4 cyl 4 door honda accord thats just barely newer than the car I had when I was 16 and I'm 32 now.

[TopQuark]

A hot red Ferrari for an 18 yr old? Disaster.

I could imagine that even if you give that lad a brand new beemer, it will end up the same way.

[thashicray]

First world problem!

My first car was a 1987 Ford Escort. No air-conditioning, no power steering, no power doors or windows, and the kicker...no radio. Pops thought it would distract me so I was without tunes for about a year. All with about 97 hp to boot.

[fourflys]

this is crazy... we just had a fatality (maybe two, not sure) last week here in Kodiak when a kid stuffed his Subaru WRX into the corner of a restaurant... the impact pushed the front passenger seat into the rear seat... the kid's dad had bought the car for him 6 months ago apparently... BTW- the road is a small, pot-hole filled 25mph zone...

[damocles]

Giving a kid a Ferrari is definitely a dumb idea, but it's not the root cause of the issue here. An idiot can still find a way to kill himself (and others) with a $500 Toyota Corolla and this happens regularly, it just doesn't make news the way this does.

[rugbysecondrow]

First world problem!

My first car was a 1987 Ford Escort. No air-conditioning, no power steering, no power doors or windows, and the kicker...no radio. Pops thought it would distract me so I was without tunes for about a year. All with about 97 hp to boot.

My first was a 1972 4dr Malibu that I paid $50 for. I bet you loved your Escort and had some really good times in that ride.

Big Pimpin

[Grant McLean]

Sadly, kids kill themselves in cars everyday.
The only thing that makes this story any different was that it was a nice car.

I really wonder if it actually is more dangerous to give a kid a fast car.
It's easy to see a story like this, and forget that car crashes are the
leading cause of death for teenagers, and most of them aren't in a Ferrari.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

-g

[fourflys]

I think the issue in whether the type if car made a difference or not is relevant... If you give a kid a 4 cyl Ford Ranger, they can kill themself just as well as in an F430... BUT, when you give a kid that F430 and then add in testosterone, a brain that is not fully formed yet, inexperience AND a friend that shares all these attributes I believe the F430 driver is more likely to do something stupid...

I did some really stupid stuff in my Escort GT when I was 16 and I truly feel if I had a sports car I would be dead...

My wife and I were just talking about a car for my daughter the other day... my wife has a 240hp Honda Accord Coupe with an awesome stereo, I have a 4cyl Toyota Highlander with a crappy radio... the Honda would be harder to carry friends in but has more power, more reason to turn the radio up, and is lighter/more crushable... the Toyota can carry more people but is less powerful, radio is terrible, and should survive in a crash better... decisions, decisions...

[Kirk007]

I think the issue in whether the type if car made a difference or not is relevant... If you give a kid a 4 cyl Ford Ranger, they can kill themself just as well as in an F430... BUT, when you give a kid that F430 and then add in testosterone, a brain that is not fully formed yet, inexperience AND a friend that shares all these attributes I believe the F430 driver is more likely to do something stupid...

I did some really stupid stuff in my Escort GT when I was 16 and I truly feel if I had a sports car I would be dead...

My wife and I were just talking about a car for my daughter the other day... my wife has a 240hp Honda Accord Coupe with an awesome stereo, I have a 4cyl Toyota Highlander with a crappy radio... the Honda would be harder to carry friends in but has more power, more reason to turn the radio up, and is lighter/more crushable... the Toyota can carry more people but is less powerful, radio is terrible, and should survive in a crash better... decisions, decisions...

As a parent of a now 20 year old young male who has so far successfully navigated this issue, and recalling my own youth, I think the car does make a difference. A Honda Civic is basic transportation that a kid will still race around in. The Ferrari is a pseudo (or not so pseudo) race car that screams go fast, push the limit. Expecting a teenager to resist that siren call is about as realistic as expecting him/her to abstain if a Hollywood heart throb was lying naked in their bed telling him/her to jump in.

[Grant McLean]

A Honda Civic is basic transportation that a kid will still race around in. The Ferrari is a pseudo (or not so pseudo) race car that screams go fast, push the limit.


I dunno. I think the real danger of teenage drivers is their lack of awareness
of the consequences of their actions. Just cruising around in a civic thinking
you're having a good time with a few friends in the car, and joking around
while thinking they immune to danger is the riskier behaviour in my opinion.

Driving a Ferrari should in most cases alert the driver to the fact there are
serious consequences to crashing. In general, I think that makes one safer,
not more dangerous.

-g

[fourflys]

Driving a Ferrari should in most cases alert the driver to the fact there are
serious consequences to crashing. In general, I think that makes one safer,
not more dangerous.

-g

our adult minds think this way... an 18 y/o's mind can't comprehend risk very well generally speaking... I think Kirk is right on the money, at least from the studies I've read and from teaching my AAA driver improvement courses...

[malcolm]

I dunno. I think the real danger of teenage drivers is their lack of awareness
of the consequences of their actions. Just cruising around in a civic thinking
you're having a good time with a few friends in the car, and joking around
while thinking they immune to danger is the riskier behaviour in my opinion.

Driving a Ferrari should in most cases alert the driver to the fact there are
serious consequences to crashing. In general, I think that makes one safer,
not more dangerous.

-g

Kids will misbehave in almost any vehicle from bikes to a ferrari. Some are certainly more responsible than others. The problem with a sports car is that yes they may be more aware, it's far easier to lose control of 400 + horse power than 97, and once control is lost far more difficult to gather it back up particularly with an inexperienced driver.

[Kirk007]

I dunno. I think the real danger of teenage drivers is their lack of awareness
of the consequences of their actions.

-g

Agreed (and it is a frightening thing to witness in your own flesh and blood!) but the instrument that we put in their hands impacts the risk of bad things happening. Ian has stayed crash free in a pick-up and a civic. His friends with wannabe rally cars have without exception totalled at least one car. Luckily they are all still alive.

Even as an adult how I drive our passat wagon compared to how I drive the mini cooper on a country road is very different, and I know I'm closer to pushing limits in the Cooper.

[Grant McLean]

His friends with wannabe rally cars have without exception totalled at least one car.

Oh, i guess that settles it. :)

As any social science researcher knows,
common examples are often very misleading.

Alcohol and SUV rollovers are what kill the most kids.
How many parents buy an all wheel drive SUV because
they think it's safe?

http://www.auto-accident-resource.com/statistics.html

-g

[fourflys]

Oh, i guess that settles it. :)

As any social science researcher knows,
common examples are often very misleading.

Alcohol and SUV rollovers are what kill the most kids.
How many parents buy an all wheel drive SUV because
they think it's safe?

http://www.auto-accident-resource.com/statistics.html

-g

your linked stats are overall motor vehicle accidents (MVA), there is nothing separated out for age... I agree alcohol is a huge cause of MVA's, but not so sure of SUV's in regard to teens... I'm also sure it depends on the location being looked at... in the more northern states, there may be more SUV's than civics, although I don't see that being the case here in Kodiak, Alaska... lots of small Japanese coupes...

[Kirk007]

Oh, i guess that settles it. :)

As any social science researcher knows,
common examples are often very misleading.

Alcohol and SUV rollovers are what kill the most kids.
How many parents buy an all wheel drive SUV because
they think it's safe?

http://www.auto-accident-resource.com/statistics.html

-g

Absolutely:) Life's a crap shoot; as parents we try, imperfectly, to change the odds of bad things happening by applying life's experience which translates, we hope, to common sense. But of course I know for a fact that the kid's pickup was used for 4 wheel drifts on forest service roads with 4 downhill bikes and the riders in the truck.

[Grant McLean]

I agree alcohol is a huge cause of MVA's, but not so sure of SUV's in regard to teens..

from my previous post:

At all levels of blood alcohol concentration (BAC), the risk of involvement in a motor vehicle crash is greater for teens than for older drivers.12
In 2010, 22% of drivers aged 15 to 20 involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes were drinking.10
In a national survey conducted in 2011, 24% of teens reported that, within the previous month, they had ridden with a driver who had been drinking alcohol and 8% reported having driven after drinking alcohol within the same one-month period.13
In 2010, 56% of drivers aged 15 to 20 were killed in motor vehicle crashes after drinking and driving were not wearing a seat belt.10
In 2010, half of teen deaths from motor vehicle crashes occurred between 3 p.m. and midnight and 55% occurred on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.2
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

[fourflys]

yep, agree...

from my previous post:

At all levels of blood alcohol concentration (BAC), the risk of involvement in a motor vehicle crash is greater for teens than for older drivers.12
In 2010, 22% of drivers aged 15 to 20 involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes were drinking.10
In a national survey conducted in 2011, 24% of teens reported that, within the previous month, they had ridden with a driver who had been drinking alcohol and 8% reported having driven after drinking alcohol within the same one-month period.13
In 2010, 56% of drivers aged 15 to 20 were killed in motor vehicle crashes after drinking and driving were not wearing a seat belt.10
In 2010, half of teen deaths from motor vehicle crashes occurred between 3 p.m. and midnight and 55% occurred on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.2
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

[GregL]

Happened here in CNY too, with very sad results:

http://auburnpub.com/news/article_105768e5-1fab-5ed0-b1cb-e3c5338d8f68.html

I raced sports cars through college (autocross, track time trials) and progressed to SCCA regional racing after I graduated. I learned very quickly that the only place for high performance driving is on a track or other closed course. Giving an inexperienced, young driver keys to a high performance car is asking for trouble.

Greg

[malcolm]

from my previous post:

At all levels of blood alcohol concentration (BAC), the risk of involvement in a motor vehicle crash is greater for teens than for older drivers.12
In 2010, 22% of drivers aged 15 to 20 involved in fatal motor vehicle crashes were drinking.10
In a national survey conducted in 2011, 24% of teens reported that, within the previous month, they had ridden with a driver who had been drinking alcohol and 8% reported having driven after drinking alcohol within the same one-month period.13
In 2010, 56% of drivers aged 15 to 20 were killed in motor vehicle crashes after drinking and driving were not wearing a seat belt.10
In 2010, half of teen deaths from motor vehicle crashes occurred between 3 p.m. and midnight and 55% occurred on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.2
http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

I've several articles in medical throw away journals all editorial none data driven that suggests distracted driving primarily texting is approaching driving while intoxicated as a leading cause of accidents.

Most folks don't think about it but driving is probably the most dangerous thing the average person does on a regular basis

[Louis]

Nearly every parent thinks that their kid is perfect and would never do anything stupid.

Apparently they have short memories.

[HenryA]

Nearly every parent thinks that their kid is perfect and would never do anything stupid.

Apparently they have short memories.

14 years old, six cylinder, 3 on the tree, Mercury Comet, 104 m.p.h.

Why?

Because it wouldn't go any faster no matter how I tried.

Driver's License? Permission?

Ha! I laugh in your direction.

[gavingould]

my first car was a 79' Buick Riviera, when I turned 16 in 1994. the car had already been in the family for quite some time; best as i can remember my father bought it used sometime around 1984/5 - he drove it for a few years and then my two older brothers had stints with it before i got my hands on it.
after many repairs, eventually my father got tired of fixing it - took too much time away from working on his hot rods, so he sold it for $500 with 198,000 miles on it in about 1996. For years, he would tell me he still saw it being driven around town... i had a plethora of similarly beat-up pre-used jalopies after that until buying my own car after college. learned a fair amount about "vehicular adversity" in those times.

[ultraman6970]

Believe me, my kids arent perfect and they wont get a sport car ever at least from me or my wife, repeat... never ever... we talked about it and they will drive my old busted minivan... my dad did the same with me and my sister, my wife the same situation... one day i asked for a motorcycle you guys cant imagine the big NO i got :) Even my dad told me "if you have an accident I dont want to be blamed for it, so no motorcycle ever...sorry"...

As for this moron and his friend, sad what happened but parents are to blame... at least the two Einsteins did not kill somebody else in the accident. Asian cant drive do you see.. (im asian, i can say this)...


Nearly every parent thinks that their kid is perfect and would never do anything stupid.

Apparently they have short memories.

[oldpotatoe]

First world problem!

My first car was a 1987 Ford Escort. No air-conditioning, no power steering, no power doors or windows, and the kicker...no radio. Pops thought it would distract me so I was without tunes for about a year. All with about 97 hp to boot.

'61 VW Beetle baby. What I learned on to wrench on cars..using this.

http://www.amazon.com/Keep-Volkswagen-Alive-Step---Step/dp/1566913101/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350825330&sr=1-1&keywords=vw+for+dummies

Had as little calendar instead of a speedometer.

[djg]

Kids will misbehave in almost any vehicle from bikes to a ferrari. Some are certainly more responsible than others. The problem with a sports car is that yes they may be more aware, it's far easier to lose control of 400 + horse power than 97, and once control is lost far more difficult to gather it back up particularly with an inexperienced driver.

Yes, this, exactly. Somewhere out there are a few teenagers who really know how to drive the Ferrari AND would drive it responsibly. On the flip side, it's possible for a teenager (or adult) to be fatally irresponsible or careless in a Prius. But, as you say, the ease with which you can lose control, the speed with which things can go horribly wrong . . .

Sad really, with two young people critically injured.

[William]

Believe me, my kids arent perfect and they wont get a sport car ever at least from me or my wife, repeat... never ever... we talked about it and they will drive my old busted minivan... my dad did the same with me and my sister, my wife the same situation... one day i asked for a motorcycle you guys cant imagine the big NO i got :) Even my dad told me "if you have an accident I dont want to be blamed for it, so no motorcycle ever...sorry"...

As for this moron and his friend, sad what happened but parents are to blame... at least the two Einsteins did not kill somebody else in the accident. Asian cant drive do you see.. (im asian, i can say this)...

I can only speak from my own experience. Almost every kid I knew in High School whose parents bought them a high performance car (Trans Ams, Mustangs, Camaros, various import sports cars etc...) wrecked them at some point. Most of the kids who had to buy their own jalopies seemed to be more cautious. That's not to say they didn't do stupid things, just didn't push the envelope as much. Probably because they knew there was no replacement if they wrecked it, or the cost of fixing them subconsciously weighed in on their minds. Sure there were a few exceptions but that's how the majority played out. YMMV.

Maybe there is something to earning a ride as opposed to being given a ride?




William

[djg]

Oh, i guess that settles it. :)

As any social science researcher knows,
common examples are often very misleading.

Alcohol and SUV rollovers are what kill the most kids.
How many parents buy an all wheel drive SUV because
they think it's safe?

http://www.auto-accident-resource.com/statistics.html

-g

To your last question, quite a few. In this context, we might well wonder about base rates. The number of fatalities in Ferraris is low because . . . really good brakes? Or maybe there are very, very few such cars on the road? And even fewer bequeathed to teenage drivers?

Alcohol of course can be present across types of vehicle (style, make, model, what have you).

[Rueda Tropical]

Somewhere out there are a few teenagers who really know how to drive the Ferrari AND would drive it responsibly. On the flip side, it's possible for a teenager (or adult) to be fatally irresponsible or careless in a Prius.

I'm sorry but sitting in a Ferrari... the car is practically begging you to behave recklessly. The Prius... not so much... makes me want to recycle something.

Last thing an adolescent male needs is a little Italian devil on his shoulder encouraging him to make like Andretti.

[malcolm]

I can only speak from my own experience. Almost every kid I knew in High School whose parents bought them a high performance car (Trans Ams, Mustangs, Camaros, various import sports cars etc...) wrecked them at some point. Most of the kids who had to buy their own jalopies seemed to be more cautious. That's not to say they didn't do stupid things, just didn't push the envelope as much. Probably because they knew there was no replacement if they wrecked it, or the cost of fixing them subconsciously weighed in on their minds. Sure there were a few exceptions but that's how the majority played out. YMMV.

Maybe there is something to earning a ride as opposed to being given a ride?




William

I think there is some truth to this. Kids also have a greater sense of immortality and it's not gonna happen to me than adults, they have less ability to learn from others mistakes and just don't have the hours driving. Like everything it's a continuum (sp?) but in general true.

It a '74 corolla out fishtailing on wet roads you run off the road a hit a tree at 35 mph you probably survive, or you roll it doing the same and probably survive. Ferrari doing the same at much higher speed and you have a fireball disaster.

The is no good answer for kids in cars, the older my kids get the more I like the idea of pushing the age back to 30. I think you have to teach them responsibility and how dangerous driving actually is and to some degree hope for the best. I know my kids firs car will be one they at least helped to pay for, very used but functional and very safe also fairly underpowered.

Just as an aside some of my early cars and my friends early cars were fairly unsafe took a football field to stop and the steering wheel would make a revolution or two before anything actually happened to change direction of travel.

[malcolm]

another thing I've noticed is it seems the more you learn about actually driving the safer you seem to drive.
My wife is a sports car fanatic and has been to several performance driving schools and the more she does the more sedate her driving becomes.

[eippo1]

Gotta say that the fact that I was driving a Buick LeSabre did not change the fact that I regularly raced over 100 mph as a teenager. I did plenty of stupid things and was more than lucky many times as well. I once used the ebrake to cut between 2 tractor trailers at 80+ mph and was truly impressed with the handling of the car, but of course testing like that should be done on a race course and not on an open road.

I put myself and way too many people at risk with my driving and have at least learned what I will do as a parent to pay some more attention to my kid's activities and make sure that they have the proper respect for a vehicle.

[G-Reg]

Sadly, kids kill themselves in cars everyday.
The only thing that makes this story any different was that it was a nice car.

I really wonder if it actually is more dangerous to give a kid a fast car.
It's easy to see a story like this, and forget that car crashes are the
leading cause of death for teenagers, and most of them aren't in a Ferrari.

http://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/teen_drivers/teendrivers_factsheet.html

-g

This is like saying there is no difference in handing a kid a bong or a crack pipe.

Of course the vehicle matters.

I'm in my late 40s and the vehicle matters to me. I'd wreck or lose my license if I drove a sports car. I'm comfortable texting in my minivan at 60 but would be a menace doing it in a vette at 100.

Jus sayin

[csm]

This is like saying there is no difference in handing a kid a bong or a crack pipe.

Of course the vehicle matters.

I'm in my late 40s and the vehicle matters to me. I'd wreck or lose my license if I drove a sports car. I'm comfortable texting in my minivan at 60 but would be a menace doing it in a vette at 100.

Jus sayin

texting at any speed in any vehicle is reckless and dangerous.

[malcolm]

texting at any speed in any vehicle is reckless and dangerous.

I have to agree here. Texting in a moving vehicle that you are suppossed to be controlling is dangerous. It's like running across the hwy with your eyes closed, you may get away with it for awhile but sooner or later it will catch up with you. This underscores the average drivers comfort level and failure to grasp the dangers of operating a 3000 lbs projectile. Dialing a cell, texting, eating, messing with the radio, most of us do fairly regularly, but you only have to avert you eyes at just the right time for that routine activity to become a life atlering devestation. I would strongly encourage anyone that texts in a moving vehicle to stop, it's wreckless and irresponsible.

[djg]

I'm sorry but sitting in a Ferrari... the car is practically begging you to behave recklessly. The Prius... not so much... makes me want to recycle something.

Last thing an adolescent male needs is a little Italian devil on his shoulder encouraging him to make like Andretti.

You're sorry for not reading the whole post?

Seems a bit out of context, no? I think we're probably in agreement on this. I was agreeing with the post I quoted, and thought I made it clear that, at least IMO, the Ferrari was asking for trouble.

Any life lesson here is likely to be by analogy. I've got a 15 year-old daughter who may learn to drive next year. Like most parents of teenagers, I'll do a lot of fretting as well as thinking about that. And like the vast, vast majority of parents of teenagers, the question whether to gift her an Italian super car is not on the table.

[Tonger]

Nearly every parent thinks that their kid is perfect and would never do anything stupid.


This.

I'm sure that the gift was given with the purest of intentions to reward a 'good kid'. There were probably innumerable assurances between the driver and his parents that something like this would never happen. That the gift was more extravagant than most of us could ever afford does not make it better or worse - it could have been just as bad in a 325 hp Volvo.

I don't think there's any need to judge or analyze a father who is surely wracked with both grief and guilt. What the family really needs right now is our prayers...

[cfox]

Anyone who thinks a teenage boy wouldn't drive differently in a ferrari must have been born an adult and never met a teenage boy along the way. There are no stats to back this up because none are needed; no one would fund a study where the outcome was already known. It would be like a study to discover if lighting your face on fire would hurt.

P.S. I driven ferraris. They are not easy to drive and can get away from you very, very quickly

edit: fire analogy was in poor taste; needless to say thoughts are with any family with a sick or injured child

[malcolm]

This.

I'm sure that the gift was given with the purest of intentions to reward a 'good kid'. There were probably innumerable assurances between the driver and his parents that something like this would never happen. That the gift was more extravagant than most of us could ever afford does not make it better or worse - it could have been just as bad in a 325 hp Volvo.

I don't think there's any need to judge or analyze a father who is surely wracked with both grief and guilt. What the family really needs right now is our prayers...

I agree with what you are saying to a point but I've driven performance cars and motorcycles and I firmly believe there is a difference between a 325 hp volvo and a lighter way more hp ferrari. It's probably easier to reach the point of no return in the ferrari and when you do given the increased acceleration and traction you are probably carrying way more speed.

After saying the above kids kill themselves in all manner of vehicles every year and far more die in run of the mill grocery getters than exotics of any kind. But that kind of power and an inexperienced driver is a formula for disaster.

[LegendRider]

Here's the car...

[Ahneida Ride]

Many moons ago I was out on the Hudson River by the George Washigton Bridge.

Saw 3 Kids in a Donzi.

Next day I learned they drove between a tug boat and a barge ...

the cable got them.

[norcalbiker]

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/two-badly-hurt-when-ferrari-crashes-and-burns-in-a/nShLf/

This story is mind-boggling. An 18 year old kid is given a Ferrari (used however!!!) and within a week he's nearly killed himself and a friend. I cannot understand the mindset of a parent who believes giving a kid this type of car is a good decision.

I don't think it would have made any difference if the dad gave him a honda civic. Well, maybe a little. If the kid is irresponsible, then regardsless of he drives, he will get into an accident.

[PQJ]

Kid has died.

Don't agree with the suggestion that the same result would've been had were he in, say, a Honda civic. Ferraris are hard cars to drive, especially if it's your first. They are built for one reason and one reason only: to go fast. A tragic story but lessons abound.