Drug-free pro-cycling??

[slidey]

Here's a discussion from one of the better news agencies: http://youtu.be/23bmlO08caU

Corporate governance seems to be the way forward.

[Fishbike]

Like anything else, those with the money and power need to set the rules, culture and consequences. Organizations work when there is accountability and when the fat cats pay attention.

[jr59]

Drug free pro cycling?

Sure...They all can ride unicorns to the race and race around rainbows!

Not going to happen. Quit fooling yourself!


I'm not joking, well maybe about the unicorns, but it's never going to happen.
As long as the money is huge, and winners are thought of as rock stars, people are going to cheat, and the dopers will always be ahead of the testers.

Just the facts of the world. We can dream of things all we wish, but those facts remain.

What ever rules, and who ever governs will not matter one bit!

You want drug free, quit paying them. Quit making them stars in europe.
Stop pro racing all together. It's the money that allows this and drives it!

[Rueda Tropical]

Drug free pro cycling?

Sure...They all can ride unicorns to the race and race around rainbows!

Not going to happen. Quit fooling yourself!


I'm not joking, well maybe about the unicorns, but it's never going to happen.
As long as the money is huge, and winners are thought of as rock stars, people are going to cheat, and the dopers will always be ahead of the testers.

Just the facts of the world. We can dream of things all we wish, but those facts remain.

What ever rules, and who ever governs will not matter one bit!

You want drug free, quit paying them. Quit making them stars in europe.
Stop pro racing all together. It's the money that allows this and drives it!

You can apply the same logic to crime. Why have police and laws and judges? It hasn't eliminated crime and it never will.

With intelligent and committed management - you will never eliminate doping - but you can keep it from dominating the sport. We don't expect to eliminate crime but if the authorities and rules are doing their job we don't expect it to be so out of control that is dominating society.

[jr59]

You can apply the same logic to crime. Why have police and laws and judges? It hasn't eliminated crime and it never will.

With intelligent and committed management - you will never eliminate doping - but you can keep it from dominating the sport. We don't expect to eliminate crime but if the authorities and rules are doing their job we don't expect it to be so out of control that is dominating society.

Let's see. They have not stopped it in any major sport.

Well I take that back, they don't test in basketball. In baseball, NOPE players still dope! In football, NOPE they dope and we can't wait till they get back.
IDK about soccer or hockey, so maybe.

The point is in all of these much more public sports they have not stopped the PED use, and I'm not talking about the stuff they haven't caught yet.

What makes you think that in a sport with nothing but a history of cheating and dope, It will stop now? Because they caught LA, and really never caught him by a test! They caught everyone. Merckx and so many I can't count them all.

To have hope of a clean sport is a hope and a dream. It's not going to happen, and if it does, (which I doubt) it won't stop for long.

You are welcome to dream about being a drug free sport all you wish, but history shows us that is not to be!

Sorry to spoil your dream.

[weiwentg]

Let's see. They have not stopped it in any major sport.

Well I take that back, they don't test in basketball. In baseball, NOPE players still dope! In football, NOPE they dope and we can't wait till they get back.
IDK about soccer or hockey, so maybe.

The point is in all of these much more public sports they have not stopped the PED use, and I'm not talking about the stuff they haven't caught yet.

What makes you think that in a sport with nothing but a history of cheating and dope, It will stop now? Because they caught LA, and really never caught him by a test! They caught everyone. Merckx and so many I can't count them all.

To have hope of a clean sport is a hope and a dream. It's not going to happen, and if it does, (which I doubt) it won't stop for long.

You are welcome to dream about being a drug free sport all you wish, but history shows us that is not to be!

Sorry to spoil your dream.

well, we had slavery for some millennia before we didn't. this is NOT to compare you to a slavemaster. it's to say that it's not impossible. we clearly have the technical expertise now to reduce the prevalence and magnitude of doping. so, if we can get the political will, there is definitely a chance things will get better. a dream, yes, but not impossible.

btw, they caught Lance. they may not have used a drug test as primary evidence, but the number of folks who corroborate one another is pretty impressive. and USADA did intend to produce some analytical evidence, which raises the question over why he wasn't caught during racing (given that they've nabbed at least 2 pros with blood passport evidence).

[jr59]

well, we had slavery for some millennia before we didn't. this is NOT to compare you to a slavemaster. it's to say that it's not impossible. we clearly have the technical expertise now to reduce the prevalence and magnitude of doping. so, if we can get the political will, there is definitely a chance things will get better. a dream, yes, but not impossible.

btw, they caught Lance. they may not have used a drug test as primary evidence, but the number of folks who corroborate one another is pretty impressive. and USADA did intend to produce some analytical evidence, which raises the question over why he wasn't caught during racing (given that they've nabbed at least 2 pros with blood passport evidence).

I'm out!

You guys want to compare this to crime and slavery! I'm out.

You want to live in a fairy tale land, where everything will be drug free b/c LA and a few others got caught. Go right ahead.

[slidey]

I understand your cynicism...hell, if I'm not too mistaken I'm the mayor of Cynic Ville. But, seeing someone as powerful as LA getting caught, assuming UCI don't yank a spectacularly idiotic yet legally accurate stalling move out of their panties, is reassuring. Also, the development of Rabobank making it known that they're pissed, in addition to Nike, et al pulling out of this false paradise of Dopestrong is quite refreshing. I still have my own skepticism that the end-game is going to play out in favour of LA, and that LiveStrong will end up sponsoring a professional racing team, whilst championing the cause of cleaner riders at a younger age via some youth team, etc...but just maybe it won't happen. Just maybe there is hope that LA's credibility and finances will be destroyed entirely and he will set an example to all future cheaters that no matter how powerful you are in the sport, you can't get away if you dope. And I believe that if the sponsors wish to do so, they sure as hell can put a lot of pressure to make this policing happen.

But on one point there's absolutely no compromise...there is just one way to win in sports - clean. Doping takes away the athlete's dignity to even lose gracefully.

I'm out!

You guys want to compare this to crime and slavery! I'm out.

You want to live in a fairy tale land, where everything will be drug free b/c LA and a few others got caught. Go right ahead.

[Rueda Tropical]

Let's see. They have not stopped it in any major sport.

Well I take that back, they don't test in basketball. In baseball, NOPE players still dope! In football, NOPE they dope and we can't wait till they get back.
IDK about soccer or hockey, so maybe.

The point is in all of these much more public sports they have not stopped the PED use, and I'm not talking about the stuff they haven't caught yet.

What makes you think that in a sport with nothing but a history of cheating and dope, It will stop now? Because they caught LA, and really never caught him by a test! They caught everyone. Merckx and so many I can't count them all.

To have hope of a clean sport is a hope and a dream. It's not going to happen, and if it does, (which I doubt) it won't stop for long.

You are welcome to dream about being a drug free sport all you wish, but history shows us that is not to be!

Sorry to spoil your dream.

I didn't say drug free. Don't create straw men to knock down.

Just like we will never have a crime free society. That doesn't mean crime, or doping in sport, or cheating in schools, or fraud in business can't be contained to the point where it does not dominate those activities.

It's all down to the management of the UCI. If you had competent and honest management adjustments could be made to the anti-drug system that would make doping much much more difficult. When you have a system that's designed to fail it's no surprise it failed.

The alternative is have all the sponsors pull out and kiss the sport goodbye. What corporation would want it's name associated with the current corrupt cesspool?

[Tony T]

Let's see. They have not stopped it in any major sport.
Well I take that back, they don't test in basketball.

Maybe not in the NBA, but since Basketball is an Olympic Sport, the players are tested by the USADA when in Olympic competition (right?)

[jr59]

I didn't say drug free. Don't create straw men to knock down.





Just can't help myself in this case.

Nobody has created straw men!

Just simply read the title of the thread before you try to start a fight!

Here let me help you; Drug-free pro-cycling??

[mirko]

thanks. good post.

[Rueda Tropical]

Just can't help myself in this case.

Nobody has created straw men!

Just simply read the title of the thread before you try to start a fight!

Here let me help you; Drug-free pro-cycling??

Yes and my response to the subject was drug-free -no, but drugs pushed to the periphery -yes. If you are responding to my post I assume you would be responding to what I actually said.